Warhammer Online apparently R.I.P.

[HaemishM]

It's resequenced game DNA made from the puddle under the leaking dumpster where they throw all the aborted fetuses of game design.

[schild]

It's resequenced game DNA made from the puddle under the leaking dumpster where they throw all the aborted fetuses of game design.

Well, now we know where David Bowman rooted around to find Horizons.

[Arthur_Parker]

I'm in two minds about this.

I'm kinda sad because they did have a lot of original ideas that I thought would work well if only they break the pattern for GW pc games and code it well.

However, I only made 11 posts on their official message boards and was threatened with a ban (Almost a record for me).  I didn't even think I was being that annoying.

Rarely have I seen such an inbred, closed minded, unfriendly to newbs idiotic message board as the warhammer online official forums.

What I do find funny is that they have closed and locked the boards down tight to prevent the same set of message board muppets self destructing at the news.

I'm now back to the state of not seeing any mmorpg's in development that I want to play.

Edit I did find a thread with the strange fans at work paying their respects here

This post I thought said it all.

by Sarkhan @ 21 Jun 2004 11:36 pm   
My heart has stopped.
My brain has shut down.
I think babies are crying in the background.

What has happened? Why was there no warning? Why has it gone for the worse?
We had the greatest Online community ever built! Ever! And it's torn to shreds by 2 paragraphs by Robin Dews on the home-page!

Let us go the way of Seademond, let's find some means of replacing that wonderful site!

[daveNYC]

Shamelessly stolen from Gamasutra.

Climax CEO Kar Jeffery has suggested a sum of around $30 million to launch a new massively multiplayer online (MMO) game in today’s market, with the upfront investment in servers and support teams proving too much for Climax and Games Workshop.

Uh, $30M on top of what they had already spent on developement?  I have no evidence to back me up, but I would guess that CoH didn't cost that much.  Were these guys just flushing money down the drain or something?

[HaemishM]

If SWG only cost $20 million to make, how the fuck could Climax try to justify $30 million.

But this:

As we walk forth into this new world without the sunny tommorow of Warhammer Online looking out for us.
Remember the times you've had. Whether it be with guildmates or by yourself. Remember the fun and the laughter. The jokes, and the mods.
Warhammer Online wasn't just a game. It was a spirit. A community of differen indivuals of all ages and ethnicities, who came together to weave a delicate fabric.

Actually, it wasn't a game at all, you retard. Games get released and played. It was a dream turned into vapor.

[AOFanboi]

More from the thread (if you can call it that) on Eurogamer:

"I worked on WO and it was apparent from the start that all they were telling the public was 50% bollocks. "

That'd be the MD and the Exec producer then at the start of the project? Matt Sansam has a reputation for it apparently. Working inthe industry you hear these things.


"The basic trouble was it was 2 years into development before GW turned round and said "erm that not what we had in mind" to which Climax said "well werent you looking at the weekly progress reports we were giving you?" "

Oh so true!

""After that new design staff were brought in on the GW side who were inexperienced (read "had only ever worked on MUDs before) yet were given free reign and Climaxs design team had to get approval for everything they did (which often took a week or more). ""

http://www.thatbarnettbloke.com/
some of the reasons that are being described I fear. Clueless don't ever hire them. I think you can tell by the site but hey.

""It could have been good and the tech was reasonably sound but its a simple case of too many cooks and some crap management (mostly on the design side) with both GW and Climax. Dont believe the hype. This thing was floundering 6 months ago...""

Partially true, mainly from the GW side, although the Management never helped. However the fact that GW believe they make good games and they thought they could transfer this to the computer games market has obviously misguided to say the least.
Hireing people that want to make a mark in an industry they have no idea in ALA thatbarnetbloke, believeing them Mr Priestly, Mr Dews, can only lead to disaster at 2 years into a project. The concept of the publisher coming along and saying actually we've paid you to make a game but now we want to consistantly meddle with it because we can. But we don't understand that it takes time to change code and change art assets, we thought it was like writing a text based mud.
However with a game at almost beta stage even with all this to can it is just a simple statement of the lack of belief in their own IP and its position in the marketplace. Get back to making lead figures little boys and stop playing in things you don't understand. Its 3D in every sense not 2D like your simple games.
A note to anyone working with GW as a third party don't let them get involved in any sort of design!

Take it for what it's worth though (unregistered posters).

[daveNYC]

Now that WHO is canceled, that guy can go work at Hallmark.

[SirBruce]

I take offense to that thread.  People who only ever worked on MUDs before ARE experiened... where do you think many of today's industry verterans got their start?

I don't doubt that GW wasn't paying attention to weekly reports, but I'm sure the people they brought in at the end were people who DID know what GW wanted.  And I'm sure this was a source of friction with the Climax design team... but if Climax hadn't "fucked up" in GW's eyes previously (GW's fault or not), they wouldn't have been involved...

So, yeah, I'm sure it was a clusterfuck, but it's hardly fair to badmouth MUD developers who were brought in to try to fix what GW saw was wrong with the product.  And as for changing things like art assets and code taking time, well, I'm sure they were aware of that, but I'm also sure the code wasn't properly structured for rapid changes, either.

Bruce

[daveNYC]

I take offense to that thread.  People who only ever worked on MUDs before ARE experiened... where do you think many of today's industry verterans got their start?

And look at the current state of the industry.

[Sky]

It's funny 'cause it's true.

[Jain Zar]

Hell, GW meddles with every game design.  They think they are far more important than they really are.  Why do you think such massively underwhelming games like the PC Space Hulks, Blood Bowl, and Fire Warrior happened, with another 40K FPS about Imperial Assassins and the Gorkamorka game never even happened?

GW is one of the worst companies in tabletop gaming.  Someone needs to buy them out, give an IP liscense to Jervis Johnson one of the only GW employees/designers who doesn't have his head shoved completely up his ass, and market the snot out of the IP to whomever can make some money off it for them..

[Arthur_Parker]

From here

GAMES WORKSHOP GROUP, PLC
ONLINE GAMING DEVELOPMENT PROJECT ANNOUNCEMENT
JUNE 21, 2004

Today we have made the following announcement to our shareholders:

“Games Workshop Group PLC (“the Company”) announces that its board has resolved to terminate its online gaming development project. This decision was taken following a full review of the progress, costs to date and future costs of the project. As a result both the Company and Climax Development Limited, the computer games developer, have agreed to terminate the development project."

The online team has been working for some time to prepare a detailed project report which examines the current status of this project, the work still to be completed, how long the game will take to finish and to get it to market, and how much all this is expected to cost. The board has reviewed this report and has decided that the team’s reassessment of the project shows that it is more risky and very much more expensive than expected and therefore no longer attractive enough for us to continue to commit the group’s resources. While the opportunity to have an online game set in a Games Workshop universe still looks very exciting, this project was always a step into the unknown. We now know much more about online games than when we began this venture, but there remain substantial risks associated with this project, and the potential future rewards are still uncertain.

We will be winding down the project immediately, although a small, specialized team will continue to examine whether online games remain a serious business opportunity for Games Workshop.

Let us all remember that this project was well worth while, and it very nearly worked. No-one involved should feel despondent. It was a valiant effort. Gallantry does not always lead to success.

- Tom Kirby

[eldaec]

whether online games remain a serious business opportunity for Games Workshop.

As alluded to on the previous page, current GW product have the following characteristics...

1) expensive.
2) requires enormous time investment.
3) subject to incredible levels of min-max over-analysis by a customer base that still insists all it is looking for is 'fun'.
4) adds an expansion to every product line every year.
5) setting incredibly attractive to the gaming stereotype.

I've never seen a better match for a crossover MMOG product.

Nobody who purchases GW product today could be anything other than a rabid MMOG fanboy.

So the business opportunity is self-evidently there. The question, of course, is whether GW are capable of taking advantage of it. If by the comment about opportunity for Games Workshop they are recognising that GW as a company just aren't capable of managing IP outside their own sphere then a guess you have to respect that. But I doubt it's really what they meant.

[HaemishM]

What they really meant was they couldn't control the product internally, because they didn't have (nor want to spend) the money to do it their-damn-selves. GW history is rife with this kind of tomfoolery.

There was a company (actually 2) years ago that created resin models of EPIC scale things (like Imperial Guard tanks, Titans) for the Warhammer 40k system. GW shut them down with litigation, and a few years later, ramped up their own resin/plastic big models division called Forge World. They've put the screws to any retailers selling their products at a discount because they want to control the prices absolutely. They started seeding the US with their own stores, pushing out other retailers who sell other products.

I have no problem with trying to maintain brand identity, but they go way beyond that. Brand nazis is more right.

They wouldn't blink at investing the money in online games, but only if they can do it in-house. Maybe a year or two down the line, if they think there's money in it, you'll see them form an internal interactive division.

Not that it'll make their games any better.

[AOFanboi]

They started seeding the US with their own stores, pushing out other retailers who sell other products.

But Stateside they are up against another company with license to print money: Wizards of the Coast, with Magic: the Gathering. In the UK, however, I seem to recall the Borg, er, Games Workshop have assimilated all gaming stores.

In the U.S. the "Borg" are up against the "Dominion", to further the inappropriate Star Trek analogy. I don't think they have the same chance there. If i'm not too mistaken, even the MageKnight/HeroClix/whatever lines of plastic prepainted miniatures sell better than GW's creations there.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

GW should have stuck with the original plan and made an mmog version of their most popular licenses as they are. That is gone the Wizards of the Coast route and implemented their rules in an online game, made at matchmaking service and make people buy virtuel miniatures.
If they did it without the stupid ass pricing scheme that WoTC adobted, they could have made a bundle.

you sir, are a hero.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

They started seeding the US with their own stores, pushing out other retailers who sell other products.

But Stateside they are up against another company with license to print money: Wizards of the Coast, with Magic: the Gathering. In the UK, however, I seem to recall the Borg, er, Games Workshop have assimilated all gaming stores.

In the U.S. the "Borg" are up against the "Dominion", to further the inappropriate Star Trek analogy. I don't think they have the same chance there. If i'm not too mistaken, even the MageKnight/HeroClix/whatever lines of plastic prepainted miniatures sell better than GW's creations there.

Heroclix: all the fun without the expensive paints and super glues. AND AT ONE THIRD THE PRICE.

[Jain Zar]

Wizkids stuff did so well Topps bought them out.  And currently seem to be only half doing an EA to their Origin/Westwood/Kesmai.

I can go into Waldenbooks or Target and get Wizkids products.  I have even seen them in Toys R Us.

And there have actually been THREE companies who had liscenses to make resin GW items back in the day.  Epicast, Armorcast, and Forge World.  Armorcast being the biggest.  And they couldn't even give you rules to the models they made.  They had to put out a fanzine to carry all the rules.  

But here is an example of the pricing difference between Armorcast and GW's Forge World:

Armorcast Baneblade Tank, superdetailed version with metal treads: 130 (Nonmetal tread lower detail kit for 60, or 90 with a removable main body and the plug in parts to make another superheavy tank.)

GW Forge World Baneblade:  250.  I knew a friend who actually had one.

Armorcast Eldar Tempest Superheavy Grav Tank:  38 dollars

GW Forge World Eldar Scorpion Superheavy Grav Tank: 130 or so.  (Same basic size and concept.)

Is it any wonder why people would get into Wizkid's games?  Hell, GW's subsidiary Sabretooth Games made a LOTR collectible minis game even though GW already had a traditional LOTR minis game out.  Different scales of course.  Most of the GW playing community likes to convince themselves its all about the detail in the minis and how they love painting their works of art but geez, more people just want a fun GAME and could care less about assembling and painting these effin things.