2006 World Cup Chock full o' spoilers thread

[Azazel]

Where do they get these fucking refs? That's 2 times now that there were pretty blatant penalties against Croatia, but the Ref is seemingly blind...

[Righ]

That was a pretty damned good game between Australia and Croatia. Despite being down twice, the Aussies brought a tough determination to bear. After the second Australian goal, the Croatians just turned into thugs. Had I been the ref, I'd have red carded four of the buggers - not least the two that manhandled him.

[Llyse]

And the Aussies are thru!!!!!!!!!

Gotta love Australia's relationship with the referee though... 

[Tale]

Where do they get these fucking refs? That's 2 times now that there were pretty blatant penalties against Croatia, but the Ref is seemingly blind...

I should preface this with "woot! we're through to the second round!". But I'm feeling pretty drained - that game was just WIERD.

If you get two yellow cards, you are automatically sent off (equivalent to red card). But Simunic was given two yellow cards and the referee forgot to send him off. He started walking off, then realised the referee forgot, and nobody else on the field realised. Then at the end, he practically assaulted the referee and became the only man in history to get THREE yellow cards :)

Final comment from the Guardian's Scott Murray sums it up (referee's name is Graham Poll).

FULL TIME Poll is a complete clown. After a scramble in the box, Viduka sets about forcing the ball home for Australia... but Poll blows up for full time, Clive Thomas style, with the ball about to cross the line. He disallows the goal - not that it matters - but then he decides to book Simunic for a third time - and sends him off. He then blows up for full time AGAIN... before driving off the pitch in a car with square wheels.

At the start, a Croatian player jumped onto Viduka in the box and wrestled him to the ground, a clear penalty, but the referee ignored it. There was also a blatant handball in the box by Croatia in the second half that should have been a penalty - Croatian player visibly punched the ball out to stop Australia, and the ref missed that too. My team won through to the next round, so this is not sour grapes, but that was the worst refereeing I've seen in a World Cup game.

[Llyse]

I love the english...  :-D

Wooo!!!!!!!!!!

Still high about Australia making it through,

Australia did well overall but we seriously lack finishing ability...

The amount of chances squandered is just madness... 59% possession at the halftime...

The way we play right now we have no chance to beat Italy...

Although Italy did well at beating a 10 man Czech team

[Signe]

Yeah, I'm part Italian, too, (my mother was born in Abruzzi) but if wandered around New Jersy talking about "Roma" and "Italia", even the Sopranos would point and laugh at me.

Oh and... GoGoAustralia!  Very odd last few minutes with Croatia, though.

[Azazel]

I'd like to see more matches where the players get to be the stars of the game, and not the umpires.

It's true, Australia is very weak on finishes, on the other hand, I could see Australia pulling one out of their arses against Italy.. either a last-minute rally as we've seen before, or more likely 0-0 and the luck of the penalty shoot-out after extra time.

Lygon St is going to be interesting next week.


I didn't realise that posting on an internet message board was akin to wandering around New Jersey, but to let you know, that if I walked down Lygon St or Carlton talking about "Italia" going through to the next round, noone would look at me edgewise or give a shit, outside of agreeing with me. The world is bigger than your own little slice of it.

[Righ]

Australia could crush the Italy that drew agast the USA. If they put on another miserable performance like that, its a stroll into the the quarter-finals. Frankly, looking at the possible match-ups, Australia could even make it to the semis now (probably to then meet Argentina).

[Azazel]

At the start, a Croatian player jumped onto Viduka in the box and wrestled him to the ground, a clear penalty, but the referee ignored it. There was also a blatant handball in the box by Croatia in the second half that should have been a penalty - Croatian player visibly punched the ball out to stop Australia, and the ref missed that too. My team won through to the next round, so this is not sour grapes, but that was the worst refereeing I've seen in a World Cup game.

Add to that -

Calling fulltime as the ball was literally crossing the line for a third Australian goal, yet still slightly under the 3 minutes of added time. Which he didn't announce until nearly 2 minutes in.
Not having the balls to send off the Croats who were busily shoving him, as Righ pointed out. I've never seen a ref let players put their hands on him before with no recourse.
The second Australian goal which was scored while we were offside.
2 balls on the pitch at once at the very end.

It's good to have gone through, but there really needs to be something done about the refereeing.. I'd hope that this dickhead never sees another World Cup again, but then again, the Uruguayan ref we had in the first game against Japan had been suspended previously to this cup (and he allowed the foul on Schwartzer that resulted in Japan's gioal). Uruguayan ref for the first Australia game. Good fuckin' choice that was.

[Tale]

Life is good. I've got the day off so I don't have to rush to work like everyone else is currently doing, and now I get to watch the Brazil game over breakfast.

[eldaec]

I never really understand why Graham Poll gets these gigs amoung the English League Refs.

Most of the time he is a decent referee, but he's always had a habit of just losing control of a game once every few months and having to send off a whole bunch of players as a result.

As regards the penalties I thought Viduka had a stone cold penalty denied in the first half when he was rugby tackled, the actual handball penalty given was harsh but cancelled out against the second half stone cold handball not given.

I also don't understand how the Croatian who pushed Poll stayed on the pitch.

On the point the Guardian guy made about the yellow card after full time, referees have always been allowed to give yellow cards after the final whistle, though forgeting to check if the guy had already been booked before the second one was of course beyond comical. And technically blowing the whistle as soon as time runs out is correct even if the ball is heading into the goal. It's also stupid ofc.


Austrailia were good tonight but ultimately they remain a mid-table premiership side and I don't see them scoring against Italy. Currently you can get 6.2 on Austrailia in the second round - tbh that seems fair.

[Azazel]

I don't know about harsh. Tomas was pretty blatantly playing a different form of football to the rest of the players on the field going by the way he was blatantly punching the ball there. Twice.

And going by the clock on my TV screen, the one that starts counting the moment the ref blows the whistle to start, there was still a good 15-20 seconds left. Which would have been even a little longer if you added the time he spent arguing with the Croats when there were 2 balls on the pitch. Have to agree (again) with the pushing thing though. That was just bizarre.

[Tale]

On the point the Guardian guy made about the yellow card after full time, referees have always been allowed to give yellow cards after the final whistle, though forgeting to check if the guy had already been booked before the second one was of course beyond comical. And technically blowing the whistle as soon as time runs out is correct even if the ball is heading into the goal. It's also stupid ofc.

I don't think anyone was objecting to the yellow after full-time (though the ref did blow full-time twice, once before and once after the yellow).

There were three minutes of extra time. But when he blew for full-time just as the third Australian goal was crossing the line, the TV coverage clock (at least) still showed a few seconds to go. The fact he blew full-time again afterwards suggests this might have been another error.

[Azazel]

And while Australia "shouldn't" beat Italy, it all comes down to how both sides play. Italy were shit against the USA, if they play like that again and the Australians can come up with enough heart and arse, again, it could happen.

It wouldn't be the first upset from this tournament, after all. Czech, anyone?

[Hoax]

Australia could crush the Italy that drew agast the USA. If they put on another miserable performance like that, its a stroll into the the quarter-finals. Frankly, looking at the possible match-ups, Australia could even make it to the semis now (probably to then meet Argentina).

I dont agree with this at all, the Italian side looked fine against the US they got jobbed on 2 offsides calls (possibly three) and Keller had to make some good saves to keep that game at 1-1.  Don't forget the US goal was flukey as hell, and McBride was clearly offsides on the Beasley no-goal.  I hate Italy more then any other team in the world cup but they are a top-notch squad when they put their mind to it.

Also, the socceroo's look and often play like thugs at least judging from the Brazil and Japan games I saw.  Combine that with Italy's penchant for the art of diving and I expect them to pick up a great deal of nicely placed freekicks outside the box if not a PK or two.  I see the chance of an upset as quite slim.

If I had to pick upset specials in the round of 16 so far I would take:
Netherlands - Portugal, if Portugal can play like they did versus Mexico.  Which means like soccer is a team sport, while they have their superstars in the lineup they could be dangerous against a Dutch side that I just can't figure out.
England - Ecuador, assuming that Beckham can't bounce the ball of Crouch's stupid ugly head to take advantage of the smallest non-asian team in the cup they may have offensive troubles (or was that just because I most recently saw them against the German geneticaly engineered giants?).  Ecuador's speed + lazy/stupid English defending could equal GOOL!@!!

I just can't see underperforming Sweden beating a German side that has been building a scary head of steam with each match so far.  Likewise Ghana without Essien(sp?) just doesn't have the talent to match Brazil's scoring ability.  Argentina would have to choke and choke hard to loose to Mexico unless the Tricolors can score first and go into crazy-confident mode, also is Borchetti out for the whole tourny?  Somehow I missed the update on his injury.

[Tale]

I don't think it's quite fair to say Australia play like thugs, when you have Croatia pushing the referee and wrestling opponents to the ground. Japan started the "Australia play dirty" thing as a tactic in their pre-match press conference, then dived all over the place to convince the referee (who bought it at first, then realised what was going on). Brazil also ran with it in their press conference because it obviously rattled Viduka, then also dived everywhere. As a big guy, Viduka in particular was put under pressure because he wasn't allowed to breathe next to a defender without the whistle blowing.

As a result, Australia had more fouls against them than any other side, but most observers thought the team didn't deserve it. There were two or three definite bad challenges that I'm embarrassed about, including some studs to the shin at the start of the Brazil game for which I think an Australian should have been sent off, but we didn't get any red cards until the Croatia game, and that was for a handball.

With the USA out and Australia into the round of 16, this guy is a laughing stock: "Australia is only in the world cup to make up the numbers." - Bruce Arena, USA Coach, 2006

[Raph]

Italy may be top notch when they put their mind to it, but they didn't put their mind to it in the match with the US. The American team was mentally there, and the Azzuri weren't. Where the US went today, well, that's another story. And why does Beasley get to start, anyway? Never mind his assist today, which was quite nice -- the rest of the time, he was a lump on the field.

On the other hand, if I had to pick one thing to send the US back to school for, it's passing. The percentage of passes that reached target and were then controlled to within a foot of the player was pathetic in all the matches. I got tired of balls going yards away from anyone. In the end, that's what kept Ghana alive -- the US had a lot of chances that they just completely failed to capitalize on.

For the record, I am a sports fan for only around 1 week every four years. :)

[Margalis]

Was the US really ranked 5th in the world by FIFA? Why? I thought the consensus was that they were expected to suck and had no world-class players.

[Righ]

Yes, the USA was ranked 5th in the world based on results in their best seven FIFA recognised matches each year in the last eight years. A couple of wins in the CONCACAF Gold Cup, loads of goals scored, and the political inability of FIFA to apply reasonable regional weightings resulted in the USA being ranked 5th alongside Spain. Similarly, Mexico are ranked 4th due in large part to their CONCACAF performance. The USA and Mexico are hugely dominant in their region. They could mark down the value of wins in this region, but the silly method of picking the best seven matches would still screw up rankings. They're going to replace the system this year. With another system thats entirety daft, no doubt.

The CONCACAF competition - the biggest threats being countries not recently destabilised by CIA/DEA operations or engulfed in lava and which have a population high enough to field a football team without running out of people to run the airport:

Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Aruba
Bahamas
Barbados
Belize
Bermuda
British Virgin Islands
Canada
Cayman Islands
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominica
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
French Guiana
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Guatemala
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Jamaica
Martinique
Mexico
Montserrat
Netherlands Antilles
Nicaragua
Panama
Puerto Rico
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint-Martin
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Sint Maarten
Surinam
Trinidad and Tobago
Turks and Caicos Islands
U.S. Virgin Islands
U.S.A.

[Tale]

English press is giving hell to referee Poll's three-card trick.



And this is apparently not a penalty ... *cough*

[Azazel]

Just shows how thuggish those Aussies are, right?

I never realised that the US qualifying region was so harsh. It reminded me of the Oceana region, actually. Well, except that the Oceana region doesn't have 2 places permanently held for Australia and, um, New Zealand like CONCACAF has for the US and Mexico.

On a brighter note, reading that list made me want to play Sid Meier's Pirates! again sometime.

Love the pics, Tale. Do you have a higher-res one of the bear hug? I'd like to use it as my desktop.



 

[Azazel]

And from a slightly higher-quality paper then The Sun

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28749-2240171,00.html


The Beeb

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5108722.stm

[Tale]

Do you have a higher-res one of the bear hug? I'd like to use it as my desktop.

Sorry it was just an imageshack upload someone posted on Whirlpool.

Got some more quality British press re Mr Poll (remember this is from people who usually hate Australia). The Guardian says:
Three bookings for one player: Poll loses the plot
Defrock these pernickety refs
Referees need help

I just have new respect (um, no, not respect, more like admiration for the thought process behind how it gets readers) for The Sun, as my very bright boss is a former Sun journalist. Knowing my enemy, or something.

Fortunately we escape the Oceania qualifying group next time. We're part of Asia now. Oceania (as you know, but others may not) does not even have one entry to the World Cup - the top team has to play the 5th-place South America team for a chance at a place in the World Cup. That is why Australia is so motivated in this tournament: to get into the matches you just saw, we had to defeat everyone in Oceania, then defeat Uruguay (past winners of the World Cup) who were the 5th-place South American team. Which took two games and a penalty shoot-out, while dodging the poisoned food and violence Uruguay defeated us with in 2001.

[Llyse]

Uruguay won the World Cup back in '38 and the very first tournament in '30  :-D

Back to Australia, if the socceroos play as well as the played against Brazil and actually score goals instead of choking it they might draw with Italy for penalties or even beat Italy.

Inzaghi didn't play very well even with the goal he scored, wasting a few chances ala Socceroos style  :-D

Good articles btw Tale

[Righ]

Got some more quality British press re Mr Poll (remember this is from people who usually hate Australia).

I think you're mistaken. The British hate Australia less than most other countries. However, we're justifiably pissed off that history records us sending prisoners and neer-do-wells off to a land of sunshine, beaches and clear oceans. Actually, most of of the Brits' xenophobic insults stem from self-loathing. Except the French ones.

[WayAbvPar]

However, we're justifiably pissed off that history records us sending prisoners and neer-do-wells off to a land of sunshine, beaches and clear oceans.

OTOH, it is teeming with flora and fauna that just can't wait to poison you or swallow you whole.

[Tale]

Got some more quality British press re Mr Poll (remember this is from people who usually hate Australia).

I think you're mistaken. The British hate Australia less than most other countries. However, we're justifiably pissed off that history records us sending prisoners and neer-do-wells off to a land of sunshine, beaches and clear oceans. Actually, most of of the Brits' xenophobic insults stem from self-loathing. Except the French ones.

Hate was too strong a word. I meant sporting rivalry: you love to beat Australia at sport. I'm actually a dual citizen, born in Scotland but mostly raised in Australia. My cousins still give me hell about the Ashes :) And the French are my favourite people in the world, rudeness and all.

Re Australia vs Italy, I think Italy will win. But if there's a miracle and Australia wins, it will get even more exciting: if I'm reading the groups right, we would face Ukraine, Switzerland, Korea or France and have a very good chance of going further.

[HaemishM]

Why, because we don't want to see the same coach for three tournaments in a row? Even if the USA won the damned final there would be a case for changing the coach. It's hardly a "lose one game, cry for coach blood" reaction.

I'm with you there. The coach seemed completely against subbing anyone until it was just obvious he had to. I kept hearing that DeMarcus Beasley was this fast as lightning guy, but every time he got the ball and a little space, he stopped. It was almost as if he remembered the coach telling him to play conservatively. The one time he went buck wild, they scored. Donovan was fucking useless. Onyewhu looked like he needed shoulder pads and a helmet. Reyna got pickpocketed like a 3-year old on that first goal. Where was this vaunted US team? They had about 3 players show up, the rest just lolly-gagged around the field like zombies at a brain buffet.

The reffing has been mostly bad to horrible, and I'm still trying to figure out why Ghana got that PK. I've had rougher bowel movements. 

[Signe]

Hate was too strong a word. I meant sporting rivalry: you love to beat Australia at sport. I'm actually a dual citizen, born in Scotland but mostly raised in Australia. My cousins still give me hell about the Ashes :) And the French are my favourite people in the world, rudeness and all.

Re Australia vs Italy, I think Italy will win. But if there's a miracle and Australia wins, it will get even more exciting: if I'm reading the groups right, we would face Ukraine, Switzerland, Korea or France and have a very good chance of going further.

Not so much footie as Rugby and Cricket.  Everyone wants to beat Australia at those!  I also think Italy is more likely to win, but I'm still cheering on Australia in that match.  I can't help it... Italians make me angry and Australians make me giggle.  I'd rather giggle.

As for the French, I'm also a fan.  I love spending time even in Paris where they might let me pick my own peaches when I shop, but they glare at me if I touch them first!  I like the way the French live, especially in Paris.  It's so nice to walk around in the evening, have a wonderful dinner, then stop by a jazz club for an hour or so of music and your after dinner pastis.  When we're in Paris, the TV is never turned on.

[eldaec]

It turns out nobody actually got three bookings after all. The third 'booking' was the correct response to having noticed the earlier foul up.

Got some more quality British press re Mr Poll (remember this is from people who usually hate Australia).

In general the British dislike referees. But have no issues with Austrailians.

If the british *did* have issues with Austrailians then everyone in London would die of thirst, where 80% of all barstaff appear to be Austrailian. (I gather the reverse is true in Syndey due to some complex but unspoken exchange program arrangements)

[Jobu]

Mmm, avoided the scores all day yesterday (which was HARD since I went to go play soccer at lunch)... and I get home and tell my wife, "Hey, I'm gonna watch the US game after dinner." To which she responds sarcastically, "Yeah, they lost. ha ha." Oops! Oh well, at least it kept me from watching the rest of the game after halftime.

I really can't wait to see the rest of the Australia game now. I watched the first half, and that handling of Viduka in the box was a howler. This is gonna be great fun to watch the rest of it.


Anyways... to revive something back a few pages... I think this would make a fun England formation:

--- Rooney -- Walcott/Lennon ---
------- Gerrard -- Lampard -------
- J.Cole --- Carrick --- Beckham -
-- A.Cole -- Terry -- Carragher --

3-5-2 with Carrick hovering around in front of of the back line, and Gerrard and Lampard roaming around in the middle. I think it'd be fun to see, and I'm gonna try it out next time I load up Winning Eleven. Ashely Cole could be replaced with Bridge, yeah... but is that really much of an improvement? I'd rather take Cole's speed if I had to choose between two meh performers. Terry and Ferdinand could be swapped equally, same with Hargreaves and Carrick. Carrick played excellently for Tottenham in that position, with some scathing passes through the midfield to start up plays, I'd like to see what he can do out here.

edit: derrr, I missed a player.

Sounds like a weak resolution to Group H this morning. Normally I wouldn't give either of them much chance of going further, but they both luck out and get to play the other weaksauce Group G in the knockouts. I sure wouldn't be too scared of France/South Korea/Switzerland... and they really shouldn't be too worried about Ukraine and Spain either. Why couldn't have the Ivory Coast gotten in a group like those?! They played SO well, such a disappointment to see them go home. France better not get seeded next time, unless they wake up and win Euro 06 or something.

[eldaec]

Bridge can defend.

Defending is an important quality in defenders.

I'd actually like to see Bridge at LB and ACole at LW tried in a friendly. After all, there is a name of players who are good on the left or right hand side of the pitch, and who are better going forward than in defence, and it isn't full-back.

If Sven were to be kidnapped by aliens tomorrow, opening the way for a back 3, then I think you'd have to put ferdinand in at the back. Playing 3-5-2 I'd go...

-------------------Rooney--Crouch--------------------
---------JCole------------------------Gerrard-----------
Acole-------------Hargreaves-----------------??
----------Ferdinand--Terry----Carragher-----------
-------------------Robinson-----------------------------

The real problem here is right wingback, Neville is the only member of the squad who would be even a possibility to play all the way up and down the right touchline. Beckham and Lennon can't tackle, Carragher can't run and you'd want a better crosser. However, Neville is still injured.

This is all pie in the sky ofc because Sven is more likely to play Theo Walcott than deviate from a back 4.

Back in crazy Sven-world, leaks from the England camp suggest England will be playing 4-5-1 on Sunday, bizarrely, Carrick will play at the back of midfield with Hargreaves replacing Carragher at RB.

You couldn't make this shit up.

[Hoax]

So at the end of group play I think that concacaf and asia both deserve to have one of their automatic slots taken away and those teams forced into some form of a playoff.  Giving an extra possible slot to europe (I hate to say it, I really do) and the other to south america (conembol?sp?).

[WayAbvPar]

Because the Czechs and Polish played so well?

[eldaec]

If it were purely on merit you'd just play West Europeans vs Argentina and Brazil. But it wouldn't be much of a world cup then would it?

Also, part of the problem with the idea of Europe or SAmerica gaining slots is that you only come to that conclusion based on analysing the performance of the best teams from those continents, but if you add more slots, you get more teams like the worst qualifying teams from those continents.

Oceania's worst (and only) qualifier was Austrailia, Asia's was Japan, Europe's was Serbia, South America's was Paraguay. I'd rather have more Austrialias and Japans than Serbias or Paraguays.

But I do agree that North America probably has more slots than it can usefully fill, I don't even know which team you'd classify as worst from that region.