Dubious Square practice with FFXI and Play Online?

[Soukyan]

Blah, I should have washed my hands of this clusterfuck yesterday.  Fuck you guys.

At least we supply Vaseline... sometimes...

[Train Wreck]

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Signe]

Aha!  You want the good stuff, do you?

[Train Wreck]

You would know

[Reg]

Are you guys sure you paid the full 12.95 monthly fee for the partial month when you first reactivated? The last time I resubscribed (last December) it only cost me 8 dollars because I did it on December 10. They like to charge everyone on the same day but in my experience they definitely do not charge the full fee for your first partial month.

Maybe this has changed though or they've managed to break their billing system.

[Train Wreck]

I was told that they do that for people's 30 day trial, that they prorate it for the time after the 1st of the next month.

Their charge to me was $11.10, I don't know why.  I should have had another 15 days, and a credited charge would have been around $7.

[Numtini]

BTW when I was last in game the populations were the same as they were two years ago, which was quite healthy.

It really makes me wonder how well this game could have done if they'd set aside separate western servers that were a little less grindy and done a proper billing system.

[Velorath]

BTW when I was last in game the populations were the same as they were two years ago, which was quite healthy.

That's because players know all their hard work is going to get deleted a couple months after they leave so they might as well just keep playing.

[Margalis]

The number of people online at any given time has been relatively constant. Typically about 2,200 per server or somewhere around there.

I've never had a problem with the billing, but then I don't pay much attention to that sort of stuff in general.

[Numtini]

The number of people online at any given time has been relatively constant. Typically about 2,200 per server or somewhere around there.

WOW. Really? I don't think I've ever seen under 3000 on Fairy, US, Japan, or European primetime.

[Train Wreck]

That's because players know all their hard work is going to get deleted a couple months after they leave so they might as well just keep playing.

That's exactly why people maintain their accounts, but would that cause them to actually log in and play as well?

I don't know which is worse, getting characters deleted after three months (UO has maintained characters of mine despite years of inactivity), or being forced to buy a new CD key if you want to resubscribe.  I would expect any of these practices to cause them to have one of the lowest re-subscription rates around.

[Velorath]

That's because players know all their hard work is going to get deleted a couple months after they leave so they might as well just keep playing.

That's exactly why people maintain their accounts, but would that cause them to actually log in and play as well?

If they're going to maintain their accounts they might as well get something for their money.  Obviously though there's a lot of people that actually still enjoy the game too.  If you've got a good enough group of people to play with regularly it eases up a lot of the grind, and there's actually a decent game in there so I could see why a decent number of people still play.  Certainly I think it's a much better choice for the hardcore catass than to wait for Vanguard.

[Der Helm]

So, how is the game ?

[Reg]

I believe they changed the policy about deleting your characters after 3 months. When I resubscribed in December both of my characters were still there and I'd cancelled the previous April.

It does seem to be a little random though. I met quite a few people in game who'd been gone a few months and had their characters deleted. I was amazed. I just can't imagine wanting to go through that early newbie grind again. If I'd found my characters deleted I'd have just uninstalled the game and never thought about it again.

[Soukyan]

So, how is the game ?

Seconded.

What did you think of the new classes? Did you get to try all three? They almost managed to get me to buy the expansion for the new classes, but your billing horror story is a good incentive not to bother. So please, let me live vicariously through your Vana'diel adventures.

[Numtini]

They changed the policy to six months before they delete characters.

[Train Wreck]

I wouldn't know.  Corsairs look cool, they seem to be like Setzer (sp?) from FF6, with a bit of pirate thrown in.  I've only partied with them though.

[Soukyan]

So you didn't try out Blue Mage like you had originally intended?

[Train Wreck]

Nope, my main job is white mage and after some consideration I decided Summoner would go better because of their very high mp rating.  (When I thought I might like to be a Blue Mage, I was still fairly ignorant about the concept of sub jobs and assumed that because it was a mage, it would go ok with white mage, when actually they are more of a melee bend.)

For those unfamiliar with the game, you can switch between jobs (classes) at will, just like FF5 and Dragon Quests 3, 6, and 7.  This mitigates the limitation of only having one character (alts cost $1 each per month, plus tax).  It would be like World of Warcraft, instead of having a character for each class you want, you just go back to town and change your job.  Anybody can be any of the six basic jobs of Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage, and Red Mage whenever they feel like it.  There's also about a dozen advanced jobs that require the completion of quests to unlock individually.  I like the system a lot, personally.  I only played for about three weeks though and didn't get around to unlocking any of the advanced jobs.

The job system really comes into play once you reach level 18.  Then you become eligible for a fairly easy quest to obtain the right to have a sub-job.  Your sub is always half the level of your current main job, but you have access to all of the skills, abilities, and spells for its level, and it grants a stat bonus of about 20%.  The way I understand it, if a Warrior would have had 20 str at a certain level, and you use it as a sub job, then it grants +4 str.

Of course, this means that characters that sub melee classes with mages or vice versa are gimped.  What benefit would +4 str be to a White Mage when they can sub with Black Mage and get  bonuses to stats conducive to casting spells?  It's with this in mind that I decided a Summoner/White Mage would be more useful than a Blue Mage/White Mage.  Summoners have the highest MP of any job, and the bane of a White Mage is running out of mana in the middle of a battle, so they go very well when subbed together.  Not to mention they can summon all the old familiar faces (Shiva, Ramah, etc).

Doesn't really matter though, because my account is currently inactive and I don't know if I want to buy into Sqeenix's exploitive way of doing business.

[Koyasha]

I haven't played for months, but haven't cancelled my FFXI account for more than a month at a time since I first subscribed.  For more than one reason, though I have to admit that the fact that I don't want my characters deleted is definitely part of it.  But also the factt that they're perhaps the only game I've played that is so bug-free and problem-free that I have never in fact encountered a bug while playing FFXI or had any tecnical probelms whatsoever.  If we're voting with our dollars, my vote is that making a game that works perfectly buys my vote.  I suppose keeping my account on pretty much always is also why I may not have experienced any of this billing weirdness some people report.

[Toast]

I would much rather support a fun MMORPG that has a few bugs over a flawless grind-a-thon.

[Nebu]

I would much rather support a fun MMORPG that has a few bugs over a flawless grind-a-thon.

When they make one of those things that you mention, I will support it too. 

[Velorath]

So, how is the game ?

The game or the expansion?  Haven't tried the expansion but I played the game for a while after release.  Long enough to get Monk to lv. 30 in the beta and to get WHM to 32 I think after release.  It's a good game kinda, but after lv. 10 or so you aren't going to get anywhere solo.  Like I've said, it's a fun game if you've got a good group of people to play with regularly.  If you have to do pick up groups though you'll get frustrated because of the xp hit you take when you die.  It can also be a pain to find people to do the missions with since most people have already done them and there's not much to gain by doing them twice.

If they've changed the whole thing about deleting characters, and if I ran into at least 5 other good people with similar schedules who wanted to play I'd consider it, but that's not too likely.  Combat is somewhat interactive with the skill chains, I think the world itself is pretty well done, and to me it had one of the better enconomies (at the time, prices might be crazy now, I don't know).  Low level characters could get crystals from enemies pretty easily, which are basic needs for crafting, so they sold well enough to make some ok cash.  The job system was pretty cool, especially for FF fans (which I used to be.  Not so much lately).  There's a huge difference in the grind between good groups and pick-up groups.  A couple deaths will really set you back, while killing mobs quickly and efficiently gets you an xp bonus the more you kill in a short amount of time.  There was a lot of stuff added after I left too, like that PVP ballista thing or whatever it is.

[Koyasha]

I would much rather support a fun MMORPG that has a few bugs over a flawless grind-a-thon.

I do what I can to avoid sending the message to game developers/producers that it's ok to make games that don't always work.  I distinctly recall a comment from...someone on these boards, way back when FFXI first released.  "This game WORKS.  And we should demand that more games WORK."

[Numtini]

An odd thought, but has any game that worked on launch really been a total flop?

[Koyasha]

As far as I can remember, the three major ones that have worked on launch without major issues are DAoC, CoH, and FFXI.  FFXI was the only one that was a huge success, but the other two certainly haven't done badly.

[Merusk]

An odd thought, but has any game that worked on launch really been a total flop?

I dunno.. how'd Jumpgate, Earth & Beyond and Motor City: Online do at launch? I never really heard.

[Azazel]

I signed up for the 1 month free trial they were giving out to cancelled subscribers last year. I played about three days then uninstalled the game again. Not once did I ever agree to pay for the service again. Around 4 months later I got a notice saying I owed them $40 in subscription fees. They sent me 3 notices total, and by the time I got the "Final Notice" I owed them around $80. They don't respond to emails, and you have to login to contact support. My cds were damaged so I could no longer install the game without buying another copy. I guess I could send them a letter in the mail.

This is your FINAL notice that you owe a pending balance for PlayOnline services. It consists of Content ID fees for FINAL FANTASY XI and/or Tetra Master and is now over three months past due. Please note that leaving your balance unpaid could jeopardize your credit rating.

I had the same thing happen with a website hosting company. And they turned it iver to a collection agency, who in turn started reporting it to 2 of the 3 reporting agencies as a bad debt/writeoff. I'd start checking your credit if I were you.

Time to pull your fist out of your arse and tell your credit card provider that someone is attempting to charge you for services you weren't subscribed to and didn't agree to instead of sitting back and letting them fuck you due to laziness.

edit - fucking nested quotes.

[schild]

Frontpaged, lengthened and an additional intro by myself. Thanks Train Wreck.

[stray]

Frontpaged, lengthened and an additional intro by myself. Thanks Train Wreck.

The industry is filled with assholes and the fanbase is filled with a bunch of pussies.

Most game publishers are no different than the fucks trying to pimp out some new diet plan for all the desperate, obese people out there. No different than the companies that have "discovered" the cure for balding. These companies prey on specific weaknesses in people, and know that they can get suckered into a product.

Most gamers are intelligent enough and cynical enough to see through most of the bullshit out there, but for some reason, they don't apply that cynicism enough to their own problems. Somehow they've convinced themselves that the specific industry they're dealing with is genuinely concerned with providing "fun" and "entertainment" to them -- When really, it's no different than anything else.

[Llava]

Every so often I've rarely, rarely entertained the idea of giving FFonline a shot.

Thanks. I'll be avoiding this game and probably most of SquareEnix's releases from here on out.  Bullshit like this is not to be tolerated.

[Numtini]

I wonder what affect the 360 has on this? I understand that it's not working with the PlayOnline stuff?

[Jain Zar]

Hell, its apparently doing so badly on the 360 Best Buy was GIVING IT AWAY if you bought some Microsoft published 360 games.

Because its a steaming pile of grindy, unfun, anime furry pedo shit designed by complete idiots with the bonus of god awful business
decisions to fuck you coming and going.

But hey, its got nicely animated anime catgirls, so things like selecting a server your friends are on and not having to group to do anything
past level 12 or so makes up for it right?

[WindupAtheist]

Hell, its apparently doing so badly on the 360 Best Buy was GIVING IT AWAY if you bought some Microsoft published 360 games.

Because its a steaming pile of grindy, unfun, anime furry pedo shit designed by complete idiots with the bonus of god awful business
decisions to fuck you coming and going.

But hey, its got nicely animated anime catgirls, so things like selecting a server your friends are on and not having to group to do anything
past level 12 or so makes up for it right?