Dubious Square practice with FFXI and Play Online?

[Train Wreck]

I'm trying to get this straight because it seems so obscene.  Apparently, if you cancel your account for a couple of months, if you want to resubscribe, you have to pay for the time that you weren't playing?  I want to believe this isn't so but they made me pony up for the month of April.  Since I already bought the latest expansion I went ahead and paid it, despite my disgust.  Even worse is that even though I resubscribed on May 11th by paying the monthly fee, my account was promptly closed on June 2nd.  I expected it to last until June 11th so I could decide if I wanted to keep playing.

[schild]

Ok. That's crazy. And I wonder why people haven't talked about it before.

[Train Wreck]

Me too.  It makes no sense.  People should be up in arms.

[Merusk]

They WERE up in arms about it.. 2 years ago when FFXI came out in the states.  Since then folks have either said, "fuck them" or accepted it and kept-up their sub.  Most of the time this little snafu was hidden behind pages of bitching about people getting their characters deleted after unsubbing, tho.

[Train Wreck]

I did read about the "grace period" before characters get deleted, and I missed mine by a few weeks.  I don't even mind it so much because they tell you upfront that your precious character(s) will be executed if you fail you re-sub within a certain amount of time.  But now it's like they're being taken hostage and held for ransom.  "If you want to see 'Imapimp' alive again you will pay us $36.xx by midnight at the first of next month, or he will feel the cold steel of a samurai sword upon his neck."  That should be enough to keep peoples' subscriptions going.  But charging people for months that they received no service whatsoever sounds criminal and shouldn't be legal.  I don't know what the law says, especially in Japan, but it's a total wreckage of principle.

[Strazos]

People still play FFXI?

[LC]

I signed up for the 1 month free trial they were giving out to cancelled subscribers last year. I played about three days then uninstalled the game again. Not once did I ever agree to pay for the service again. Around 4 months later I got a notice saying I owed them $40 in subscription fees. They sent me 3 notices total, and by the time I got the "Final Notice" I owed them around $80. They don't respond to emails, and you have to login to contact support. My cds were damaged so I could no longer install the game without buying another copy. I guess I could send them a letter in the mail.

This is your FINAL notice that you owe a pending balance for PlayOnline services. It consists of Content ID fees for FINAL FANTASY XI and/or Tetra Master and is now over three months past due. Please note that leaving your balance unpaid could jeopardize your credit rating.

[angry.bob]

I signed up for the 1 month free trial they were giving out to cancelled subscribers last year. I played about three days then uninstalled the game again. Not once did I ever agree to pay for the service again. Around 4 months later I got a notice saying I owed them $40 in subscription fees. They sent me 3 notices total, and by the time I got the "Final Notice" I owed them around $80. They don't respond to emails, and you have to login to contact support. My cds were damaged so I could no longer install the game without buying another copy. I guess I could send them a letter in the mail.

This is your FINAL notice that you owe a pending balance for PlayOnline services. It consists of Content ID fees for FINAL FANTASY XI and/or Tetra Master and is now over three months past due. Please note that leaving your balance unpaid could jeopardize your credit rating.

I had the same thing happen with a website hosting company. And they turned it iver to a collection agency, who in turn started reporting it to 2 of the 3 reporting agencies as a bad debt/writeoff. I'd start checking your credit if I were you.

[HRose]

I don't think this is true. I've resubscribed a couple of times and only paid for the current month.

The stupid practice they have is that they rebill the first of the month. If you subscribe the 30 May you'll have to pay again the 1st June. So two monthly fees in just a few days.

Plus all the payments are automatic. It's not like they send you bills you have to pay later.

Even worse is that even though I resubscribed on May 11th by paying the monthly fee, my account was promptly closed on June 2nd.  I expected it to last until June 11th so I could decide if I wanted to keep playing.

Yep, see above.

[Train Wreck]

I don't think this is true. I've resubscribed a couple of times and only paid for the current month.

Oh, it's true all right.  My account ended in March, when I re-subbed in May, they specifically stated that I owed them for the month of April.  Since I already bought the latest expansion and opened the box, I gritted my teeth and paid it.

Plus all the payments are automatic. It's not like they send you bills you have to pay later.

No, but you have to pay them to resubscribe.

Charging somebody a monthly fee and then terminating it after three weeks (let alone your example of one day) because it happens to be the first of the month should be illegal.

[stray]

How's that game goin' anyways? I don't hear much about it. I played a little bit at launch, then quit accordingly.

[Train Wreck]

I liked some aspects of it and hated others.  Traveling from place to place is a gigantic pain in the ass.  Even with a chocobo it takes nearly 30 minutes to travel between capital cities.  You will probably have to take significant time out of leveling to do crafting to get money.  The xp penalty for death is harsh, and dying is very common if you're in a bad party, which is also common.  Mobs relentlessly chase you until you zone.  In short, sans the crafting necessity, it embraces all of the worst elements about EQ.

The quest to unlock Summoner (the only job unlocking quest I have taken so far) involves killing leeches for hours with several friends if you are lucky to have help, until the carb ruby drops, then you have to stand in all seven types of weather.  It may sound interesting but what it boils down to is standing in different zones until it changes to a type of weather that you need.  It's the most boring quest I've done in any MORPG.

And the interface is a total abomination.  It's easily the worst I have ever encountered.  Total shit to the extreme.

The things I like about FFXI are that when you get into a decent party, it's fun and a good way to meet people and make new friends.  And leveling can go by fairly quickly.  I also like the job system, being able to try out any class and reverting back without having to make new characters, a la WoW.

[WindupAtheist]

So let me get this straight.

You cancel FFXI in March.  You resubscribe in May.  They say "Hey, fuck you for quitting in the first place. You can't come back until you pay us for that month you didn't even play, bitch!"

And you actually bend over and TAKE this ass-raping, that even a seasoned MMO player with a blown-out butthole should have too much backbone to take.

Why?  So you can play some faggoty fucked-up grindfest that reeks of catass with a side of Japanese femboy thrown in for good measure.

[Train Wreck]

So let me get this straight.

You cancel FFXI in March.  You resubscribe in May.  They say "Hey, fuck you for quitting in the first place. You can't come back until you pay us for that month you didn't even play, bitch!"

And you actually bend over and TAKE this ass-raping, that even a seasoned MMO player with a blown-out butthole should have too much backbone to take.

Why?  So you can play some faggoty fucked-up grindfest that reeks of catass with a side of Japanese femboy thrown in for good measure.

I already blew $30 on the expansion and since I opened the box to install it, I couldn't return it.  So I spent another $12 or whatever it was to renew my account.  It was a dilemma of eating the $30 or spending a bit more to actually be able to use it.  That's a concept that I thought even you would be able to understand.

[angry.bob]

That's a concept that I thought even you would be able to understand.

In all honesty, I almost posted the same thing. Except I was going to offer to club you in the back of the head with a tire iron while I fucked you myself, but only if you paid me $100 first. 

[stray]

Heh

Sorry Trainwreck, but Bob's a funny guy 

[WindupAtheist]

I already blew $30 on the expansion and since I opened the box to install it, I couldn't return it.  So I spent another $12 or whatever it was to renew my account.  It was a dilemma of eating the $30 or spending a bit more to actually be able to use it.  That's a concept that I thought even you would be able to understand.

What you should have done is gone back to the store to scream and yell, in hopes that some peon would violate the return policy just to get you to shut the fuck up.  Assuming that failed, you should have shit in the FFXI box and mailed it to their billing department.  Then you'd only be down $30, instead of $54 and your pride.

[Tebonas]

Awarding them for their fucked-up policy with another 24 Dollars was maybe the wrong signal to them.

[Train Wreck]

That's a concept that I thought even you would be able to understand.

In all honesty, I almost posted the same thing. Except I was going to offer to club you in the back of the head with a tire iron while I fucked you myself, but only if you paid me $100 first. 

Too bad for you, Square beat you to it.

I can only imagine the mangled bloody mess that was your ass before whatever MORPG it was that sent you over the edge.  You're one sick fuck.

[Cheddar]

Ahahaahaha.  There is so much funny in this thread.  Kudos Angry.Bob.  I have no room to mock Train Wreck;  I keep subs up with games I do not even play.  I will say that his handle seems appropiate though.

[Velorath]

I already blew $30 on the expansion and since I opened the box to install it, I couldn't return it.  So I spent another $12 or whatever it was to renew my account.  It was a dilemma of eating the $30 or spending a bit more to actually be able to use it.  That's a concept that I thought even you would be able to understand.

What level is your character?  Wasn't the expansion geared for lv. 50+ characters for the most part?

[schild]

Treasure of Aht whatever I do believe had new (and supposedly interesting) classes in them. If they were different enough, it changes the core game. As such, one could guess it's tailored toward new and old toons. I like Guild Wars' policy and I'm pissy that I haven't been playing it yesterday (Boston Public is ruling my time, but only 4 episodes left before I'm done with all that have been made thus far). Guild Wars gives new characters AND an entirely new story. They seem to be keeping that up for at least the next expansion also. It impresses me. Too bad the Spiritualist or whatever the other new class is (Not Assassin) is more confusing than hell.

/derail

[Train Wreck]

I already blew $30 on the expansion and since I opened the box to install it, I couldn't return it.  So I spent another $12 or whatever it was to renew my account.  It was a dilemma of eating the $30 or spending a bit more to actually be able to use it.  That's a concept that I thought even you would be able to understand.

What level is your character?  Wasn't the expansion geared for lv. 50+ characters for the most part?

I was a newb in FFXI... and still am.  I got it because I saw that it had new classes in it that looked interesting.  Blue mages were always among my favorites in the single player FF games.

Yeah, you could say I was a gimp for paying for the month of April to re-sub.  It was only $11 though.  And it was either that or let the $30 expansion I bought go to waste.  WUA's idea is a good one but I tend to only be able to pull off my raging douchebag routine online.  I'm more pissed off about them disabling my account after a mere 2 1/2 weeks when they charged me for a month.  I don't remember reading that anywhere and if it's buried in the agreement somewhere then it seems smarmy and hardly sufficient.

I did find two other fine points of assfuckery in their TOS (that are arguably even worse) but not this particular one.  Any chance of adding assfuckery to the dictionary, by the way?  Or am I just spelling it wrong?  I can't seem to win for losing.  :-D

[HaemishM]

I already blew $30 on the expansion and since I opened the box to install it, I couldn't return it.  So I spent another $12 or whatever it was to renew my account.  It was a dilemma of eating the $30 or spending a bit more to actually be able to use it.  That's a concept that I thought even you would be able to understand.

What you should have done is gone back to the store to scream and yell, in hopes that some peon would violate the return policy just to get you to shut the fuck up.  Assuming that failed, you should have shit in the FFXI box and mailed it to their billing department.  Then you'd only be down $30, instead of $54 and your pride.

Apparently, they don't even deserve the effort it takes to lay a steamy one in the box.

Seriously, Trainwreck, you should have felt some rectal poking about the time they asked you to pay for April.

[Toast]

So, we have one of the grindiest games in the history of the genre. This is a game that on a number of nights, I would log off with less precious "xp" than I started with because of one death at the end of a grind session.

This game threatens to delete your characters if you unsub.
This game will require you to buy a full new box if you screw up and uninstall/cancel PlayOnline the wrong way.
This game attempts to charge for unplayed months.
This game threatens to attack former subscriber's credit ratings.

Let me just say: f that noise. I'll play the NGE, Dark and Light, Mourning, WWII Online. and the Phantom console before I pick up another game from this company.

[Train Wreck]

Apparently, they don't even deserve the effort it takes to lay a steamy one in the box.

Seriously, Trainwreck, you should have felt some rectal poking about the time they asked you to pay for April.

Yep, I did.   I was already fucked either way.  The only question remained, was I going to get fucked over just a little or a lot.  I see it as having lost $11, verses losing $30 for something I couldn't use or return.  The whole thing is assbackwards, and the moral of the story is "If you deal with Square, prepare to get fucked."

[WindupAtheist]

Two potential scenarios:

Scenario A:  "So I went out and bought myself the FFXI expansion for thirty bucks.  Then I get it home, install it, and realize that they want me to pay for the month of April before letting me play.  I wasn't even subscribed in April.  But I had already spent thirty dollars, so I meekly bent over and submitted to a reaming.  I hope their lovely game is enough fun to soothe the burning in my asshole."

Scenario B:  "So I went out and bought myself the FFXI expansion for thirty bucks.  Then I get it home, install it, and realize that they want me to pay for the month of April before letting me play.  I wasn't even subscribed in April.  So I said fuck these guys.  My thirty bucks is never coming back either way, but I'll be damned if I'll throw good money after bad just to play this fucknut company's game.  I set my FFXI box and discs on fire, here are pics.  Now help me draft a nasty letter to include with said pics when I mail them to every Square-related address I can find."

B>A

[Train Wreck]

At this point, I'm more likely to hemmerage from the brain.

[Numtini]

That doesn't sound right. They bill once a month and they will bill you $12.95 for each month you are subscribed. So if you subscribe the 30th and cancel the 2nd, you will pay 2x12.945. But you don't pay for every single month between your subs. I've cancelled and reupped twice. I did the "come back to Vana'diel" last month and the total charge was the one month for 12.95 (Though that "month" consisted of 5 days of subscribed time.)

I can take the travel times and death penalties, but those linear mandatory group quests will drive me out of any game, the tally now including FFXI, EQ: POP, DAOC: TOA, and AO: Shadowlands. I cancelled in October of 2004 while working on that stupid Kazaam key. And it managed to keep my "return" to less than week.

[Train Wreck]

That's what I'm trying to figure out.  When I resubbed, the month of April was clearly stated, but I checked my bank statement and I was only charged one time, and it was for $11.  (As a result I was able to log in from May 14th until June 2nd, when they deactivated it because I chose not to renew.)  Before going off on a tirade I want to make sure I know what's going on.  I've confirmed some other bullshit they do but I'm still looking into this one.

Also, I don't have a problem with being charged for a whole month when a person cancels after the fifth day, provided they can still log in if they chose to.  What I have a big problem with, and didn't know they did until it was too late, was that the monthly fee only covers the current month.  In your example of re-subbing on the 28th and cancelling on the 3rd, yes, you will be charged 12.95x2, but will actually receive less than 5 weeks of playing time.  The first 12.95 goes to cover the month of June even though it was only for three days.  I wouldn't be surprised if they waited until June 2nd to disable my account to ensure that they can charge me for the whole month of June if I wanted to touch the hot stove again and re-sub in July.

[Signe]

Why the FUCK is the word "hemmerage" in the Spellamabob?

[HaemishM]

Hemmerage: The anger felt by your burning arsehole after being fucked by an MMOG company.

[Train Wreck]

Why the FUCK is the word "hemmerage" in the Spellamabob?

That's a good question.

And why is Spellamabob missing?

[Mr_PeaCH]

Hemmerage: The anger felt by your burning arsehole after being fucked by an MMOG company.

Nails.   :-D

[Train Wreck]

Blah, I should have washed my hands of this clusterfuck yesterday.  Fuck you guys.