Faction population balance: Expansion

[jpark]

It was suggested on this site sometime ago that the only way to get the factions more balanced in this game in terms of populations was to offer elves on the horde side - specifically blood elves.  And that is going to happen.

What's not going to happen - in my view - is the appearance of more folks playing horde than in the past.  The blood elve idea was a good one - but Blizzard has done too good a job with this new alliance race the Dreani - which will appeal to current horde players that enjoy tauren.

At best the relative ratio will not change.  My prediction is that the horde side will diminish more - the new alliance race will appeal to a pretty broad segment of players.

* Wonders if Schild will re-roll his Paladin *

EDIT: oops - meant to post this in the WoW section - I am tired :)

[Strazos]

I think you missed.

[Wolf]

Draenei are like Tauren but cool and not cows.

[Strazos]

YOU TAKE IT BACK RIGHT !

My cow could pwn your hoffed elf.

[stray]

Schild played a Paladin?

[jpark]

Schild played a Paladin?

To 60.  Not sure if it is there anymore but for awhile he had posted a player guide to playing a paladin, which was stickied on the Blizzard forums.

[pxib]

Mythic has the right idea: every faction has at least one giant race, tiny race, elf, human, and something truly inhuman. You can be whatever you like, and not have to choose your faction based on your desire to play from a specific perspective.

Well... they do now. When they started, one of the factions only had humans -- and the game was NAMED AFTER THEIR CAPITOL.

I think that Blizzard underestimated how much Joe Sixpack likes to look like a human.

[Zetor]

Blood Elves get an insanely overpowered pvp racial. (horde abilities > alliance when it comes pvp)
Draenei get an insanely overpowered pve racial. (alliance abilities > horde when it comes to pve)

Blizz still doesn't have a clue about racials and balance, film at 11!

Edited to add some actual content: I don't think that many people will go from horde to alliance just for draenei. It's a cool concept, but not THAT cool.


-- Z.

[Kail]

What's not going to happen - in my view - is the appearance of more folks playing horde than in the past.  The blood elve idea was a good one - but Blizzard has done too good a job with this new alliance race the Dreani - which will appeal to current horde players that enjoy tauren.

I'd like this to be true.  I like the relatively tighter groups I get with my Horde characters than with my Alliance ones; I'd love to believe that my Blood Elf is going to be just as overrepresented as my Undead or my Orc (meaning: only slightly).  I mostly play on PvE servers, so I don't have to worry about Alliance zergs.  I don't mind the current balance.

But I do think that (for better or for worse) this will balance things a bit.  When I'm playing Alliance, it looks to me like almost half the characters I bump into are Night Elves (I have only old, old WoWcensus numbers to back this up, though, so it may be wrong).  If what you say is true, and all the Tauren players leave the Horde to roll Dranei, then I still don't think their loss will equal the number of Night Elf players coming the other way.  If equal numbers of people liked giant beast-men as liked Elves, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

[Azazel]

how much Joe Sixpack likes to look like a human.

...or a hawt chick...


What are the racials, anyway?

[stray]

The last I checked, the Taurens were popular (as far as Horde goes). Why would people move?

[Yoru]

Moved to its rightful place. :)

[Tebonas]

Shouldn't this be in the WoW forum? I am now very sad that there is no expansion for that great Game Faction population balance.

Maybe there will be a Faction Population Balance 2.


Edit: Damn, too slow.

[SurfD]

What are the racials, anyway?

Last i had heard:

Draeni:
- Passive bonus to Gem Crafting +15 or something
- Activation ability:  Targetable heal that scales with level (think of it as something like a targeted cannabilize, but not channeled, or something like that.  rumor puts it in at around 500+ heal at 60.  No idea if it is affected by +healing gear)
* Overpowered ability: Passive AURA EFFECT, that grants your entire party a + to hit, scales with level, word is its around +5% to hit at 60.

Blood Elves:
- no idea what their passive / whatever bonuses are  (rumor LONG time ago had it that one would be the ability to lifedrain the bodies of dead demons (similar to cannabilize)
- Overpowered ability: (may be way off wrong on this, could have changed)  Two stage ability.  They have a drain attack (rumor says mana, but might be health), where they drain a small amount something (like 40 or less probably at 60) and get a temporary buff.  This buff stacks up to 3 "charges". lasts for about 10 minutes.  When they trigger the Activated Counterpart to this, it consumes the charges of the buff, Produces an Point Blank AOE silence effect (think warstomp, but a silence instead of a stun) and restores a set amount of mana / rage / energy depending on your class.   So imagine a rogue or warrior who could silence you AND suddenly gain a boost to rage / energy.

[Righ]

Now imagine that but nerfed to be a 5% base boost at level 70 - like +15 in a skill would give. That's basically how good the racials will end up, even if the initial demo version was godly. They may be overpowered long enough in live to get everybody to re-roll, such that Blizzard can buy a bit more time to write another morsel of content. By the time you get a BE to near level 70 the racial will probably be nerfed to be less useful than relentless strikes.

[Merusk]

The blood elf activated ability isn't as overpowered as the yammering masses would like you to believe.

Last reports form E3 said the stackable buff requires a 10-second channel.  The fuck? Yeah that's useful in pvp.. I always have 10 secs to channel.
The 'blow your charges' buff does silence.. for 2 seconds. (Down from the 8 it was reported at Blizzcon)  That's if you've managed to channel for a total of 30 seconds without dying and losing the buff.  The buff it gives back is supposedly around 20 rage/mana per charge.  If this were energy for it would be significant, but they can't be.  For Mana it's nothing, may as well not have it.  The rage it gives back  IS significant, because 60 rage is a fucking LOT.

Their passives are 1) +15 to enchanting and 2) +5 to all resists.

As to population imbalance.  Well, it's a question of how many people are willing to 'start over.'  That's always the question on a new race, class or character.  Yeah, lots of folks will check them out but the need to be on a completly new server (if you PvP) or find a new group of friends, or a new guild with whom to run endgame stuff with AGAIN will keep some folks away.  It always does.

[Calantus]

On most new PVP servers horde either outnumber alliance or the ratio is very close. Only on PVE servers and release PVP servers are alliance:horde imbalances rampant. I'd say the situation with new servers is about the general perception that alliance = PVE, horde = PVP. And I'd say the situation with the old servers was the perception then that alliance-side was more fleshed out and their capitol much closer to the action (the 2nd of which is still true).

[Paelos]

Mythic has the right idea: every faction has at least one giant race, tiny race, elf, human, and something truly inhuman. You can be whatever you like, and not have to choose your faction based on your desire to play from a specific perspective.

Well... they do now. When they started, one of the factions only had humans -- and the game was NAMED AFTER THEIR CAPITOL.

I think that Blizzard underestimated how much Joe Sixpack likes to look like a human.

The big key is NOW. Middies were rolling through their snowy captial for years wondering where all the white women were at.

[Threash]

What are the racials, anyway?

Last i had heard:

Draeni:
- Passive bonus to Gem Crafting +15 or something
- Activation ability:  Targetable heal that scales with level (think of it as something like a targeted cannabilize, but not channeled, or something like that.  rumor puts it in at around 500+ heal at 60.  No idea if it is affected by +healing gear)
* Overpowered ability: Passive AURA EFFECT, that grants your entire party a + to hit, scales with level, word is its around +5% to hit at 60.

Blood Elves:
- no idea what their passive / whatever bonuses are  (rumor LONG time ago had it that one would be the ability to lifedrain the bodies of dead demons (similar to cannabilize)
- Overpowered ability: (may be way off wrong on this, could have changed)  Two stage ability.  They have a drain attack (rumor says mana, but might be health), where they drain a small amount something (like 40 or less probably at 60) and get a temporary buff.  This buff stacks up to 3 "charges". lasts for about 10 minutes.  When they trigger the Activated Counterpart to this, it consumes the charges of the buff, Produces an Point Blank AOE silence effect (think warstomp, but a silence instead of a stun) and restores a set amount of mana / rage / energy depending on your class.   So imagine a rogue or warrior who could silence you AND suddenly gain a boost to rage / energy.

The draenei to hit aura is only for spells and it doesnt increase with level so its just +1.  Blood elves get + 15 enchanting also. Also the draenei heal does 1075 over 15 seconds at level 70, and i believe its self only.

[WindupAtheist]

Am I the only one filled with "meh" by both of these races?  Oh boy, more ghey elves and some... uh... what the fuck is a draeni?

[Strazos]

Elf with hooves and horns.

[Righ]

Formerly shamanic gay demon paladin trans-dimensional space invaders from Uranus who like to make jewelery. PEWPEWPEW.

[stray]

Am I the only one filled with "meh" by both of these races?  Oh boy, more ghey elves and some... uh... what the fuck is a draeni?

What? You're not filled with "meh" already?

Seriously though, Blood Elves are like...Important to the WC world. Gotta have 'em. I don't like WoW, but Illidan rocks.

[Ironwood]

Formerly shamanic gay demon paladin trans-dimensional space invaders from Uranus who like to make jewelery. PEWPEWPEW.

Couldn't have put it better myself.  Except they won't be Shaman.

Thus far anyway....

[Llava]

Am I the only one filled with "meh" by both of these races?  Oh boy, more ghey elves and some... uh... what the fuck is a draeni?

What? You're not filled with "meh" already?

Seriously though, Blood Elves are like...Important to the WC world. Gotta have 'em. I don't like WoW, but Illidan rocks.

Back when it was the cool thing to do to theorize what the release races would be for World of Warcraft, I was convinced they'd have Blood Elves on the Horde side.  And I had people saying, "That doesn't make sense."  And I'd say, "Why not?  They hate humans, they hate Night Elves, and they're not allied with demons.  They make at least as much sense as the Forsaken."

So, I've been holding it back for a while:
I WAS RIGHT YOU FUCKERS WHO DON'T POST HERE.  It just took a while for my rightness to kick in.

Regarding population:  No, it won't fix it.  Nothing like this will ever fix it.  The closest DAoC got to fixing it was providing bonuses to underpopulated realms on specific servers, and even that provided only temporary boosts of realistically non-contributing players.  People wouldn't start over for new races, new classes, whatever.  They'd roll alts, but they were locked down in one realm on one server and that would always be their "main".  The alts never reached high levels.

This is, of course, speaking generally.  Of course SOME people have the dedication to start all over.  Not most folks, though.

Over years and years of this sort of thing, it could potentially be fixed.  I wouldn't expect to see any immediate or obvious gain, though, beyond the initial 'omg blood elves' rush.  It won't last.

[Chenghiz]

I don't think the faction population imbalance is as big an issue as a lot of people make it out to be. Pretty much the only thing it affects is world pvp (more likely to run into one faction than the other) and raid progression (bigger population yields more dedicated and skilful players).

[Strazos]

But raid progression = mroe epic loot, which in turn = more PvP BG potential.

[Lantyssa]

Back when it was the cool thing to do to theorize what the release races would be for World of Warcraft, I was convinced they'd have Blood Elves on the Horde side.  And I had people saying, "That doesn't make sense."  And I'd say, "Why not?  They hate humans, they hate Night Elves, and they're not allied with demons.  They make at least as much sense as the Forsaken."

My WC lore is not the greatest, but I thought the Blood Elves were allied with Illidan and he is working with both the Naga and the demons.  He does seem to be out for power at the expense of anyone, but basically he is a pawn of the Burning Legion.  I am totally mistaken on that?

If I am not, why would the Horde tolerate the Blood Elves at all?

[Ironwood]

Because they like to blow shit up.

[stray]

but basically he is a pawn of the Burning Legion.

Never willingly. He tried to figure out a way to escape them and failed. Then was given another chance to kill Arthas, but failed. Other things involved in the overall story put the Legion on the sidelines a bit, and Illidan's story is left 'to be continued' (he's brooding in relative safety, I guess...).

No faction is ever aligned with the Burning Legion. The same goes for Arthas and the Scourge. Nobody likes them either (including the Undead).

[Chenghiz]

But raid progression = mroe epic loot, which in turn = more PvP BG potential.

True, but a well-coordinated team will beat epic lewts any day. On the other hand, epics and coordination.. now that's hard to beat. Though with 1.11 PVP armor (blues and epics) will be quite competitive with raid epics for PVP.

[Simond]

My WC lore is not the greatest, but I thought the Blood Elves were allied with Illidan and he is working with both the Naga and the demons.  He does seem to be out for power at the expense of anyone, but basically he is a pawn of the Burning Legion.  I am totally mistaken on that?

If I am not, why would the Horde tolerate the Blood Elves at all?

The PC blood elves are the ones left behind by Illidan/Prince whathisname, and 'joined' the Horde (trying to reopen a portal to Draenor/Outland) due to a lack of alternatives.

[Llava]

Back when it was the cool thing to do to theorize what the release races would be for World of Warcraft, I was convinced they'd have Blood Elves on the Horde side.  And I had people saying, "That doesn't make sense."  And I'd say, "Why not?  They hate humans, they hate Night Elves, and they're not allied with demons.  They make at least as much sense as the Forsaken."

My WC lore is not the greatest, but I thought the Blood Elves were allied with Illidan and he is working with both the Naga and the demons.  He does seem to be out for power at the expense of anyone, but basically he is a pawn of the Burning Legion.  I am totally mistaken on that?

If I am not, why would the Horde tolerate the Blood Elves at all?

Illidan is in debt to the demons, but he's trying to figure a way out of it.  In fact, he nearly did until one of the big ones (Kil'Jaeden? Or Archimonde? Whatever.) caught up to him and gave him a stern dressing down.  I believe that particular demon, however, was killed by all the wisps at the end of WC3, so Illidan may be more successfully dodging his infernal debts.

The Blood Elves are in a similar boat, in which they're addicted to demonic magics and are unwilling to give that up, but don't particularly wish to be slaves to the Legion.  So they're trying to figure out some trick around it.

[Righ]

True, but a well-coordinated team will beat epic lewts any day. On the other hand, epics and coordination.. now that's hard to beat.

Stating that X well coordinated and efficient players can beat X better equipped players who dont know what the hell they're doing is somewhat redundant, don't you think? I know there's any number of examples of PvP noobs in epics getting rolled by a group of quick witted PvPers on teamspeak with no epic gear - but macros, gear and levels and other 'earned' mechanics certainly do unbalance PvP significantly in most MMORPGs. Which is also a reason why many people prefer to PvP in them to online action shooters. F13 is probably not the ideal place to try and suggest that 'skill' plays the greatest role in most MMORPG PvP encounters.

[Kail]

Back when it was the cool thing to do to theorize what the release races would be for World of Warcraft, I was convinced they'd have Blood Elves on the Horde side.  And I had people saying, "That doesn't make sense."  And I'd say, "Why not?  They hate humans, they hate Night Elves, and they're not allied with demons.  They make at least as much sense as the Forsaken."

My WC lore is not the greatest, but I thought the Blood Elves were allied with Illidan and he is working with both the Naga and the demons.  He does seem to be out for power at the expense of anyone, but basically he is a pawn of the Burning Legion.  I am totally mistaken on that?

If I am not, why would the Horde tolerate the Blood Elves at all?

For the same reason the Alliance would admit the Dranei: because someone at Blizzard thought it would look cool.  Blizzard's continuity gets chopped up so badly so frequently you'd think they were writing a superhero MMO.  A while ago, this kind of annoyed me, but really, who cares?  It would suck if someone were trying to do, say, a vast sweeping epic motion picture, in the style of Braveheart, set in the Warcraft universe, but really, probably more than half of the people playing World of Warcraft don't even know who Arthas is.