God damn kids.

[WindupAtheist]

Is it me, or is half the population of WoW aged 13 or 14, or less?  I just quit the guild I had been trying out for the last couple days because A) I was tired of getting barked at for fucking swearing around the precious little tadpoles, even though there's a goddamn profanity filter enabled by default, and B) I had entirely enough of spastic ninth-graders telling me about the time "they almost got some" or what the hell ever.

I've met the occasional kid that young in UO over the years, but they were generally an oddity, and most of the time they were playing with a parent or older sibling.  But WoW is shiny and popular and apparently the must-have game for little asshats who should really be out fagging up BattleNet or playing an FPS and misspelling "boom headshot" ten times a day.

Little fuckers need to keep off my lawn.  Bah.

[Merusk]

On A)  You'll get that everywhere, depending on the guild.  You're simply lucky you were doing it in guildchat.  Do it in an 'open' channel and you can, and will, be reported for it.. Enough reports earns you a vacation.   I have no problem with this, personally, the same way I have no problem with my guild's liberal policy towards swearing.   (If it's every second word, officers will chat with you.. otherwise, meh.)

On B) Yah you get that in some guilds.  Just research 'em better next time, is the only advice I can offer.  You'll find the more mature (aged) folks are out doing shit you pan WoW for.  Raiding and killing for loot.  It's the small loosely-organized no-goals guilds that I've always found had the masses of OMG boobs! crowd. While my guild and the other few endgame-oriented guilds I've been in have had a few 14-18 year olds, most have been over 20 and a number in their 30s.

[Strazos]

It's just WoW.

Come play Eve - almost none of the bullshit you'd see in WoW.

[Merusk]

And 100% more lasers!

Actually, I think WUA is a fantasy guy.  I don't think the Sci-Fi tickles his fancy nearly as much.

[WindupAtheist]

PEW PEW OMG LOL

Edit:  Yeah, I dunno.  I hear good stuff about EVE, I just can't get excited about my avatar being a spaceship forever.

Edit 2:  Another thing that irked me about this guild was that as soon as I popped into Ventrilo, I realized there was a Guild Princess.  You know, the one girl who isn't there with her husband, who someone has apparently seen a picture of, who's supposed to be hot, who all the slobbering undersexed fuckheads can't stop obsequiously worshipping, and who'll probably make your life hell if you piss her off.  No fuckin' thanks, these particular slobbering undersexed fuckheads were making it was too obvious.

[Viin]

Once I found out that my little brother and my cousins (all 12 or 13 years old) play WoW, I'm sooo glad I stopped playing when I did. There's no way I'd be able to stand it. EVE has it's share of youngin's, but for the most part it's older gamers.

[OcellotJenkins]

This is easily solved by a) turning off general chat and b) joining or forming a guild with an 18+ minimum age limit (and other anti-fucktard restrictions).  I haven't put up with such shit in a over a year and I play everyday.

[Dren]

This is easily solved by a) turning off general chat and b) joining or forming a guild with an 18+ minimum age limit (and other anti-fucktard restrictions).  I haven't put up with such shit in a over a year and I play everyday.

I do this and have been succesful as well.  We should write a how-to book like some people and make tens of dollars!

[bhodi]

Agreed with Ocelot + Dren. My guild's a "Family Friendly" guild, I guess you'd classify it as a hardcore raiding guild, but there are a lot of family members / couples / older people in it. One of the officers is actually quite old, in his late 40's; We constantly give him a good natured hard time about it too.

Yesterday, one of the guild members remarked "My little brother's writing a school paper about the Civil war, he was wondering if he could interview you becuase you were there." and he takes it quite seriously becuase he said one time: "Remember that episode of TNG where him and Q were standing by the primordial goo? Yeah, I was to the left, just off camera."

We have a few people who are young, no real princesses, and at last count about 1/3 our guild is female. No one really cares though, about the sex of the person behind the keyboard, beyond good natured (and non-serious) joking and flirting. We don't really have any drama queen type people, but there are tensions just like anywhere else, but it's always been resolved positively. Also, there's a lot of swearing. One of the officers (the perpetual bad-cop who handles initiates and applicants) is known for it.

I'm extremely happy in the guild I'm in, and they have sort of become a loose-knit family for me. I'd suggest you shop around and find one like mine (if possible).

A few tips that I would suggest:

1. Confirm they have a website/forums (If a guild can't be bothered to find hosting and put up a site, you probably don't want to be a member)
2. Confirm they have an applicant period (this weeds out douchebags and is HIGHLY recommended, I'd say even required for me to ever join a guild again)
3. Confirm they don't have guild requirements that you find unreasonable (raid X number of times per week, must raid if you're online, etc.)
4. Confirm they're going in the same direction you're going, have some of the same goals (raiding, PvP, phat lewt, etc.)
5. Make sure they're large enough / active enough for your tastes (3 people online including yourself weekday/weekend primetime does not a good guild make)

[Righ]

5. Make sure they're large enough / active enough for your tastes (3 people online including yourself weekday/weekend primetime does not a good guild make)

It does if one is a tank, and one is a healer.

[bhodi]

It does if one is a tank, and one is a healer.

Not really, if there are only 2 other people on at peak playtime, chances are there aren't going to be any on at other times of the day... unless those two people log on every day you want to play and you all can work your schedule around it. In general, that indicates too small a guild to bother with unless you know them somehow.

[Righ]

See, you've made the presumption that you are a raging catass, and the other two people are not. I was in a guild with three of other raging catasses, and it probably would have worked out if we hadn't all been mages and hunters.

[bhodi]

See, you've made the presumption that you are a raging catass, and the other two people are not. I was in a guild with three of other raging catasses, and it probably would have worked out if we hadn't all been mages and hunters.

I've been in guilds like that, "friends" guilds, that never really go anywhere.. it's like "my friend, his brother, their cousin and two guys from my work"; You really need to get a critical mass before the guild takes a life of it's own, gets a website, and is going to be stable enough with enough people to really be worth joining. Guilds like that generally don't last more than a month or two, and are generally only saved by merging with other guilds. With that few people you'll probably have differing schedules and since you really need 5 people to make a group, most likely it's going to be a lot of "Well, I guess we'll play without X" and then he's 2 levels behind everyone and gets frustrated.. the only easy way to avoid this (other than the level 60 game) is to have a large enough pool of people to draw upon.

You don't need a guild if you're not looking for longevity and stability, you just need a friends list. When I think of joining a guild, I think of a real guild not just a bunch of friends with the same tag under their name and a green chat channel.

[Righ]

Depends on the game and what you want to do in it. In WoW, its perfectly feasible to have a small guild provided that most people have similar play times and expectations. Three is certainly too small for comfort for most people, but you don't need a raid sized guild even to do raid content, as some of the successful raid alliances have proven. Several of the small RP guilds on Earthen Ring have been around since launch, and are very successful despite having only a handful of people on at prime time. They do often need to get "outside help" for many tasks and they are behind the raid curve (but still bedecked in epics from their participation in alliance raiding), but it works for them. Some people prefer guilds geared towards friendship rather than optimised for burning through raid content as fast as possible.

[AcidCat]

I don't necessarily mind playing with kids, like anything else it depends on the individual. I've had "grown up" guildmates that were as retarded and annoying as any teenager, so you just never know.

[Broughden]

Edit 2:  Another thing that irked me about this guild was that as soon as I popped into Ventrilo, I realized there was a Guild Princess.  You know, the one girl who isn't there with her husband, who someone has apparently seen a picture of, who's supposed to be hot, who all the slobbering undersexed fuckheads can't stop obsequiously worshipping, and who'll probably make your life hell if you piss her off.  No fuckin' thanks, these particular slobbering undersexed fuckheads were making it was too obvious.

Yeah I saw that alot. It was sad.

[WindupAtheist]

My UO guild once had two chicks vying bitterly for the position.  It was actually quite funny.  Once you get a number of women within a guild, though, this syndrome seems to go away as no single one can make herself the center of all attention.

[Tale]

Most of the people in my (casual raiding) guild seem to have kids and/or spouses. We have a couple of teenagers who are younger siblings of other members, but I'd put the average age in the high 20s. I'm one of the oldest at 36. I joined the guild because it had people I knew in EverQuest in 1999. I can't pick a "guild princess", but the leader is a woman with two kids, and is one of the most hardcore gamers I've met. She left a power guild in favour of a slower pace, but that means we tend to have some "slower people" in the guild who frustrate her.

The wider player base does seem much younger than other MMORPGs. I'm not that keen on it. My account has been cancelled for two weeks, not because I've left the game, but because the next raid I can attend is this Sunday :)

[Zetor]

The guild I'm in has an average age of 25+, we even have two father-son combinations (18 - 40ish and 31 - 53) playing. Soon enough we'll have 3 gamer generations from one family! :P There is a distinct lack of drama inguild, too.

Then again, we are too small to do anything beyond UBRS (and even that is a stretch)... if we wanted to raid, mingling with the prepubescent catass crowd (which seems to be the norm on Crushridge, sadly) would be unavoidable.

I've been in guilds like that, "friends" guilds, that never really go anywhere.. it's like "my friend, his brother, their cousin and two guys from my work"; You really need to get a critical mass before the guild takes a life of it's own, gets a website, and is going to be stable enough with enough people to really be worth joining. Guilds like that generally don't last more than a month or two, and are generally only saved by merging with other guilds. With that few people you'll probably have differing schedules and since you really need 5 people to make a group, most likely it's going to be a lot of "Well, I guess we'll play without X" and then he's 2 levels behind everyone and gets frustrated.. the only easy way to avoid this (other than the level 60 game) is to have a large enough pool of people to draw upon.

Wha'cha talkin'bout? My guild fits your criteria and yet we've been around since 1997 with no sign of imploding anytime soon, we have a vent server, a website, an IRC server, you name it. The only thing we lack is a large number of people (we have ~10 members playing WOW atm), but we're not likely to mass recruit in /1 either, kek.


-- Z.

[jpark]

Edit 2:  Another thing that irked me about this guild was that as soon as I popped into Ventrilo, I realized there was a Guild Princess.  You know, the one girl who isn't there with her husband, who someone has apparently seen a picture of, who's supposed to be hot, who all the slobbering undersexed fuckheads can't stop obsequiously worshipping, and who'll probably make your life hell if you piss her off.  No fuckin' thanks, these particular slobbering undersexed fuckheads were making it was too obvious.

Yeah I saw that alot. It was sad.

That's hilarious.  In my former guild the opposite occurred - it was assumed this gal was hot so politics leaned heavily for her.  She fucked it up by posting a real life picture of herself on our site (it was a theme in the thread).  Needless to say - any illusions of her sexuality evaporated instantly and her depature from the guild did not take too long to occur afterward.

Kids can be fun.  Wow's community is not great.  A lot of young people.  And if you're perceived to be an ass - rolling a new character to duck the reputation you created takes no effort.  This is the downside of easy leveling.

[Strazos]

This is why I refuse to go into any guild's VoIP anymore....the chance to come out mentally damaged is just too great.

[Lum]

This is easily solved by a) turning off general chat and b) joining or forming a guild with an 18+ minimum age limit (and other anti-fucktard restrictions).  I haven't put up with such shit in a over a year and I play everyday.

I do this and have been succesful as well.  We should write a how-to book like some people and make tens of dollars!

Oh, it was in the high three figures!

[bhodi]

Wha'cha talkin'bout? My guild fits your criteria and yet we've been around since 1997 with no sign of imploding anytime soon, we have a vent server, a website, an IRC server, you name it. The only thing we lack is a large number of people (we have ~10 members playing WOW atm), but we're not likely to mass recruit in /1 either, kek.

It's why I said generally. There's an exception to every rule, but if you're coming in cold, not knowing anyone on the server, the chances of you falling in with a group like that is very very low.

Oh, it was in the high three figures!

Does this mean you *aren't* going to buy all those islands in dubai to make a mini-world and play 'what if' world war wargames on it? :(

[Strazos]

So how much are they selling the US for?

[bhodi]

So how much are they selling the US for?

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

In all seriousness, I can't find out. No one talks dollars. The closest I could find was some references, cited in our favorite wiki, citing $25mil for the smaller islands.

[Strazos]

Well, since the US is big, it may be a "community' island....

So what does that mean, 3 estates instead of just one? hehe

[Dren]

So how much are they selling the US for?

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

In all seriousness, I can't find out. No one talks dollars. The closest I could find was some references, cited in our favorite wiki, citing $25mil for the smaller islands.

I'm in for $10.  F13 really should have a guild island just like GuildWars!

[Paelos]

This is easily solved by a) turning off general chat and b) joining or forming a guild with an 18+ minimum age limit (and other anti-fucktard restrictions).  I haven't put up with such shit in a over a year and I play everyday.

This is the way to go. My guild has a loosely enforced 18+ policy, and only one 16 year old ever slipped through because he was a cousin. He's not a complete idiot, but sometimes I roll my eyes. Anyway, it's nothing we can't handle and it's much better than the average.

[edlavallee]

One of the officers is actually quite old, in his late 40's; We constantly give him a good natured hard time about it too.

40 quite old? You young fukkr. One of these days I will take out my pong paddle and whack you upside the head. Right after I strap on my Depends and sip my morning Metamucil.

[bhodi]

One of the officers is actually quite old, in his late 40's; We constantly give him a good natured hard time about it too.

40 quite old? You young fukkr. One of these days I will take out my pong paddle and whack you upside the head. Right after I strap on my Depends and sip my morning Metamucil.

He's 47 or some such. That's almost double my age. Yeah, double my age is quite old to be playing those video games ;) He's retired and plays allllll day.... he has 5 or 6 characters at level 60.

[sarius]

One of the officers is actually quite old, in his late 40's; We constantly give him a good natured hard time about it too.

40 quite old? You young fukkr. One of these days I will take out my pong paddle and whack you upside the head. Right after I strap on my Depends and sip my morning Metamucil.

He's 47 or some such. That's almost double my age. Yeah, double my age is quite old to be playing those video games ;) He's retired and plays allllll day.... he has 5 or 6 characters at level 60.

My dad's 64 and plays way too much.  We can never seem to get him, me and my son in the same game at the same time.  We all went through a WoW phase and my son stayed there.  Ages are 64, 42 and 21.  Funny thing is we're not the only 3 generation gamers around, by far.

[Tale]

My dad's 64 and plays way too much.

Mine is also 64 and will probably never play a computer game. The concept of interactivity is foreign to him: he thinks you and I are mesmerised by "watching the little men jumping on the TV" :) Totally disinterested in knowing anything more, but he wants wi-fi in his house and a bluetooth phone headset.

[Rasix]

I thought this was rather appopos. Posted by the now ex-shaman officer for my old raid guild. They really should remove my permissions on the members only board..

My confession, The real Me
Many people believed that I was someone older then who I am in the real-life world. I felt really bad everytime someone asked me how old I was because I knew that I would lie about it. I don't know why I did lie about my age but I do know that in the start of my journey in this guild, I recall there was a certain age limit that the guild required- forcing me to do something I really hated doing.

My real name is Kris and I am only 16 years old- someone who goes to an amazing Private school in Hawaii. I always wondered why grimfang proposed me to be an officer, but I took the action for the guild's sake not considering the amount of stress and pressure I would be getting myself into. My knowledge to lead a guild was very low, considering that WoW was my first rpg game I played ever. Though I was kind of immature at times (music on vent and such), I knew that I did a pretty decent job- able to complete the duties that my guildleader proposed me to do and even cheering up some guildies that felt like shit on certain days.

I am not here to gain ur attention and such- I just wanted to express the "real" samuseva that is in ur guild and clear up certain misconceptions people got from me. I felt that it was the right time to provide the truth to you u guys because I feel that a sense of trust has been concreted once the guild was created. Also, I want to confess that I am totally not sure if I will be playing this game during the summer. I will be going away in the Summer to fulfill a session I will be taking with teh Carpenter's Union- hopefully becoming an apprentice.

You may think that this game had ruined my life in school, but it actually allowed me to talk with peers I have never talked with. Here is a video that my friend created (www.microbyteproductions.com <-- click login and then click the yellow bar and type this: knip08@punahou.edu) expressng the addiction factor of this wonderful game and to reveal the amount of students that actually play this game at our school. If you do watch the video, you can see my twin brother (the guy typing on the computer with the school's firewall on), giving u a sense of what I look like. Hell, I even feel bad for using my brother to raid my guy at the times I had to go afk because I had the urge to gain dkp and stay in the raid for loot purposes. Again, I just wanted to express the truth to people that perceived me as someone else. All that stuff I said in officer chat- with how I had to go afk for a serious reason is not true. fact is, my grandparents make me eat with the family, forcing me to stop whatever boss we have initiated on or taking those unexpected afk breaks that I don't tell others about. The urge to gain dkp and stay in the raid was also a factor as well- leading to stress which I couldn't really handle any more. With that said, I will like to say goodbye, and hopefully I may come back during the early days of June though not totally sure. I am just glad I got this off my chest for the past half year I was with this awesome guild

Now, this was rather shocking.  I had always thought the guy was mildly retarded or just socially inept.   

About a week before I quit the guild, I had the following conversation with the guy.  Now, his grammar isn't this good, but if I type like a teenaged internet goon, I'll feel bad about it.

Setup: someone mentions shaman revamp in guild chat. 
Me: I hope they remove mana tide from the game and give shaman a real resto tree.  I hate wasting 10 talent points on a marginal and situationally useful totem.
*this starts the tells*
Him: So, you don't like being a Broken (our guild name) shaman?
Me: No, I just think mana tide isn't a good talent and the resto tree only has a few good places to spend talent points.
Him: So you have a problem speccing like I tell you to spec?
Me: No, I spec how the guild says to spec.  I just think our tree could use some work and our required spec only slightly makes us better shaman.
*Continued discussion on what talents I think are useful. I dispell a few myths for him, while admitting that no other talent tree really helps a raid shaman. Now, this is all a calm discussion. I didn't swear at any time or really question his "authority".
Him: Stop fucking talking to me.  This conversation is over.
Me: Woah, we're just have a conversation here.  No need to talk to me like that.
Him: Did you hear me? Stop fucking talking to me.  You're pissing me off and questioning my authority.
Me: Man, get a grip.

Most teenagers were about this douche-y in the guild.  But at least the guildmaster wasn't dumb enough to make them officers.  Usually we just made fun of them during Molten Core runs when we were bored.

[stray]

I've been in a number situations like that in different games (I'm talking about the retardery at the end of your post). I've never reacted to it very well.

[Tale]

Most of the people in my (casual raiding) guild seem to have kids and/or spouses. We have a couple of teenagers who are younger siblings of other members, but I'd put the average age in the high 20s. I'm one of the oldest at 36. I joined the guild because it had people I knew in EverQuest in 1999. I can't pick a "guild princess", but the leader is a woman with two kids, and is one of the most hardcore gamers I've met. She left a power guild in favour of a slower pace, but that means we tend to have some "slower people" in the guild who frustrate her.

The wider player base does seem much younger than other MMORPGs. I'm not that keen on it. My account has been cancelled for two weeks, not because I've left the game, but because the next raid I can attend is this Sunday :)

I have an update: this guild has just died. MMOG guild politics are always so annoyingly spectacular. Our hard-working leader's husband left a couple of months back, but she was intent on leading our guild through BWL. He continued helping to make up the numbers on our raids and even called some shots due to his knowledge, but some rather petty sniping went on about his presence. She discovered this bad attitude towards him was shared by a sizeable minority of the guild, who had also developed a slack attitude to raids.

So she left. The main raid leader left too. Then four officers, one after the other. Some of the grumpy people left to start their own guild, we went through five guild leaders in three days, and the remaining founders posted "the fat lady has sung" and shut down the forums.

I joined a friend's much happier guild that is roughly at the same stage (MC on farm, starting BWL), so nothing much changes for me. Time to grab some popcorn and watch the remaining fallout.