ESPN/SEGA fans rejoice... 2k5 lineup releases @ 19.99

[Glamdring]

http://www.gaming-age.com/news/2004/6/8-17

A significant part of Take-Two's strategy is to gain market share by offering extremely high quality products, supported with aggressive marketing and value pricing. "We plan to expand the audience for ESPN Videogames' sports titles by applying a variety of proven marketing techniques," said Mr. Eibeler. "We are also adding the compelling element of value pricing to this high quality line, creating a significant point of differentiation for both core and casual gamers. We believe the recent console price cuts are bringing new consumers into the interactive entertainment market, and sports titles will be a meaningful part of their software purchases. Finally, with Sony and Microsoft not publishing sports titles this holiday season, there is a significant competitive opportunity for ESPN Videogames titles. The combination of these factors should expand the overall market for sports titles."

You can already see the price points for the ESPN nfl game on EB and Gamestop @ 19.99 for preorders.

[HaemishM]

So that $20 price isn't a mistake or a special pre-order offer?

That makes my decision to get NFL 2k5 a sure thing, as well as easy to pick up on release day.

[Rodent]

I can pick up NFL 2k5 and Hockey 2k5 for the price of one EA title? I'm in!
Not that I wouldn't have picked them both up anyways, but hey... Thank you Take 2 and Sega.

[WayAbvPar]

Looks like I am going for ESPN this year. Gotta say, it is a ballsy marketing plan. If the games are good enough to create some sort of brand loyalty, it is genius. If the games are worth what we will pay for them (about 1/2 price), it will probably backfire.

[Rodent]

I picked up their 2k3 games, liked them alot, loved 2k4. If 2k5 keeps most of the entertainment value from 2k4 it could very well mean the begining of the end for the EA era.

[Glamdring]

So that $20 price isn't a mistake or a special pre-order offer?

That's exactly what I thought until I found the linked article.

I think it's great to see a company, known for putting out quality products, going for the greater quantity/lower margin approach.

[Alluvian]

Hrm.  Has the sale of SEGA to Sammy maybe fucked up the dev shedule on this making this years game not as good as past offers and now they are pre-emptively lowering the cost?  My spidy sense is kind of tingling on this one.

If the quality is the same or better than 2k4 it is great.  2k4 was so much better than madden it was stunning.  but if the quality has slipped this is a bad idea.  I hope it kicks ass though.  I am pissed every year to see madden making WAY better sales when the 2kX games have been better since their launch in 2000.

[HaemishM]

Think of it this way. There wasn't much that was wrong about 2k4 (IMO). I'd pay $20 for 2k4 with improved visuals and new rosters.

However, this one IS adding the ability to create and manage online leagues through X-Box Live. The Morlocks are planning an online league with this.

[Alluvian]

Online leagues?  Must clean up that puddle under my chin.  That is the ONLY thing left on my wishlist after 2k4.  Sounds super fun.  Hope green bay does not have shitty stats this year....

[HaemishM]

Here's a quote that Sky put on the Morlocks. Not sure where it came from, but he can probably source it.

ESPN NFL will also incorporate living rosters into online play. So now, not only will you be able to play in leagues and tournaments with friends, but you will also be able to make trades, track injuries, and even check out all of your stats and schedules on the Web. In fact, everything you can track in season mode you will also be able to track online. But it's the living rosters addition that will make hardcore fans smile. Trading players with friends is one thing, but then to actually see it incorporated into your league, that's the kind of online functionality gamers have been dreaming about.

So yeah, get your drool bucket ready. I've also read somewhere that instead of using the PS2 as their development machine for the graphics engine, they started with the X-Box as their graphics standard. So the X-Box version should look significantly better. It'll also have a new way of passing in FPF mode that is supposedly more intuitive (but you can still do it the old way), as well as the ability to juke easily with your QB in that mode.

[WayAbvPar]

I am so there. This will definitely get me off my ass and get my XBL subscription started. If we can scare up enough warm bodies, we will have to ge a league started.

[SirBruce]

How about deep franchise-mode features like Madden has?

Bruce

[HaemishM]

I'm not that concerned about the price of hot dogs in my franchise team's stadium.

Or to be more precise, it has the features that matter to playing the game, including drafts, a scouting combine, etc.

Here's some more quotes stolen shamelessly from Sky, and wherever he stole them from.

The online functionality of ESPN NFL 2005 has been stepped up and now runs in an always online, Live Aware state. This makes things like online stats, friend’s lists, and game invites real time, all the time, which is definitely forward thinking. A really cool feature that ties into the online multiplayer mode is the V.I.P system (or Virtual Identity Profile System) which is basically a way to learn the tendencies of any opponent.




ESPN NFL 2005’s game engine can record a mind-blowing amount of stats on any human opponent you encounter online (or offline), making it easy to scout them for a follow-up game or to just learn their ways of success. The V.I.P system can tell you arcane details about a player’s game that no one would have the ability to or want to keep tabs on themselves. Need to know a gamer’s blitz to zone ratio? No problem. The amount of times they ran up the gut? Covered. There really isn’t any tendency that can’t be reviewed with this powerful database. All the details are displayed in easy to read pie-charts, graphs and good old statistics. You can even see how often an opponent calls audibles! This should tighten the gap between the good online players and the really good online players since a blowout one way could turn into a defeat after some careful study of the V.I.P stats.

Gamers will also have the ability to load up a human player’s V.I.P profile in order to play against the virtual opponent rather than play the default computer AI. Profiles can also be uploaded and downloaded via Xbox Live which brings things to an even higher level. Being that ESPN NFL 2005 will support online tournaments and leagues, similar to the now defunct XSN Sports Network, you’ll be able to project upcoming opponents and download their V.I.P profiles for some real practice time. Speaking of tournaments, ESPN NFL 2005 will feature “living rosters” that will be consistent across a leagues or tournaments. This means if your big wide receiver is injured in game one, looks like you’ll need to make a trade. Trades will need approved by the league commissioner and all rosters will be kept server side.

Ahhh, here's an IGN article about the game.

[stray]

Heh, too much football talk around here. Anyone like basketball? How's ESPN compared to EA?

[SirBruce]

Thanks for the link to the review.

Does ESPN have coach-only mode?  (Where you call the play, and the AI acts it out?)

Bruce

[Jain Zar]

It sounds like I might update my sports games before the next generation of titles this fall...

[HaemishM]

Thanks for the link to the review.

Does ESPN have coach-only mode?  (Where you call the play, and the AI acts it out?)

Bruce

It might, but I haven't played it that way, so I'm not really sure. It's built more as an action/sim than pure sim I think, but should do decently as a coach sim. You can't create your own plays though, just put your playbook together from a large set of pre-made plays, so might not be great as a coach only game.

[Alluvian]

I THINK if you just don't touch the controller after the snap the AI will play out the play on it's own.  I know this was the case in one of the older 2kX games (maybe 2k2) where on some plays I had to make a concentrated effort to drop back on my own or else the AI qb would quickthrow the ball to a receiver doing a quick screen.

So I THINK the AI plays by default.  I don't use that feature so I cannot say if it is still in there or not.  Since that older version that would control itself I am now in the habit of always moving the stick immediately after the snap.

I am almost certain it works that way though.  As I think about it, I usually actively thwart it on defense by always SLOWLY creeping one way or another prior to the snap.  I was noticing on defense that if I did not time the snap perfect my charcter would take a half step in the direction the AI wanted to go.  I often changeup the role of my player depending on motion or the formation I see once I get in.  Maybe I will blitz a man to man guy assigned on a back or drop  back a blitzer if they move a tight end out wide.  If I am actively moving the guy at the snap then the AI never takes over even for a moment so I tend to move around a lot pre-snap.

So I am 95% sure the AI will play by itself letting you pick just the plays.

And that mode looks GREAT.  When I get post football depression I will put the game up AI vs AI and set the camera mode to "TV presentation" and it looks just like an ESPN football game.  My wife gets faked out by it all the time if she does not see me with the controller.  Making comments like "Hey!, you found some football to wat... oh, wait, that's the Xbox, right?"

Coming from my wife that is really high praise for the modellers and animators.  She is constantly mocking 3d animation and 3d models for humans and animals as being poorly out of proportion.

Her comments on madden back in 2003 when they used to show it all the time during monday night football was "Ew, that is just sick, I can't even begin on all they did wrong."  She lied of course, and would then go into a laundry list of animation and proportion mistakes.  She is compulsive that way.  I am amazed these companies don't hire people like her to run a sanity check on their models before they get too far.  The worst offenders are most video games that have real life animals.  The rarely if ever get the bone structure right.

One day I would like to see some good physics go into the bodies as well.  So you can have accurate pileups.  2k4 had a ton of great animations for multiperson tackles which was a step in the right direction, but when people fall down they still fall down flat.  Not heaped and piled on top of each other.   After playing Thief 3, it is a good thing for them to wait until they can get it RIGHT before doing it though.  I hate when new tech makes games WORSE (Thief 3 would have been a better game without the havok physics and ragdolls).

[Sky]

I'm not sure about offense, but the AI always takes your guy on defense, one of my biggest gripes about the game, because I almost always play middle linebacker and run against the programmed route (or just play it looser). I wish it would negate AI for the selected player.

Does Madden have fat player models yet? When I'm playing a Lincoln Kennedy I want to see my KFC hanging over the belt. It makes interceptions hilarious.

[SirBruce]

Yeah, Madden has all sorts of models, different sliders for both fat and muscle, etc.

I'm very happy with Madden, which is why I'm reluctant to jump to ESPN unless it really has all the features in Madden I care about.  I agree that not everyone wants to set concession stand prices, so I'm cool with that being left out.  But in ESPN can you build a new stadium?  Relocate or rename your team?  Do other teams move?  Is there expansion?  What is the AI trade management like?  Is the scoring realistic with 15 minute quarters?  Etc.

The thing that I find most appealing about ESPN is the Sportscenter-like commentary and highlights and draft previews and so on.  If Madden implements something like that, I doubt I'll switch.

Bruce

[Glamdring]

I was told yesterday that Madden 2005 is the final 'Madden' branded EA NFL football product.  It has something to do with Madden being under contract with ABC and ABC owns ESPN.  I guess that's an early positive for the ESPN team's 2006 product if they don't fuck it up.

[Alluvian]

I don't really know what to say about someone with your playstyle bruce.  The reason I can't ever imagine going back to madden is the GAMEPLAY of ESPN (and past 2kX titles).  I simply find the game much more fun to play.  In a coaching mode I don't know which to recommend.

It will vary by individual tastes.  Rent 2k4, see if you like it.  I imagine the next one will be the same +new features and animations.  And supposedly a graphics jump due to baselining the xbox instead of ps2.

[SirBruce]

Yeah, see, I'm somewhere in-between.  I'm not a "pure sim" stat guy; I like seeing the action.  But by the same token, I don't want to have to master the physical dexterity of mashing buttons on a controller to get my guy to juke and jump just right.  So, I want a more strategic game, and coah-only mode gives me that.  Madden adds GM functions as well, so I feel like I'm in control of the franchise.  I'm the Head Coach/GM, not the QB/etc.

Great action and realism and animations are all great, but I'm more worried about what features are not in ESPN than what features they have that aren't in Madden.

Bruce

[Alluvian]

Great action and realism and animations are all great, but I'm more worried about what features are not in ESPN than what features they have that aren't in Madden

Well, unless the games were feature identical, that method of comparison will always end up looking bad.  So I don't really know why you are bothering.

[HaemishM]

I'd say if you like the idea of the stadium expansions and the much more businessy side of the GM equation, stick with Madden. I don't think Sega is going to add those features in. It sounds from everything I've heard that it's going to stay with the purely football aspects of the game, whereas Madden will have that and the business side that has more to do with football as an entertainment product. Sega will have all the contract stuff, but it sounds like most of the metrics for success on the franchise side are in building the team, profitable or not.