Lord of the Rings Online - The target is WoW

[Trippy]

Maybe Turbine's new strategy is to get a big license, spend very little money slapping together a game and then rely entirely on initial box sales to make money.  Those who forget to cancel their subscriptions are just gravy.

Yep I said the same thing above, and believe its what they did for DDO as well.

Except that's a stupid strategy when you've taken in $48 million in VC money over two rounds and the best you've been able to show so far for all that money is maybe 150K copies of DDO sold which at an incredibly generous $30 per copy straight to Turbine comes out to $4.5 million. Last figure I saw had Turbine at around 120 employees. If they are split half and half on DDO and LotRO and if you were to assume they spent only two years working on DDO the production cost would at a minimum be around 60 employees * $5,000/month per employee * 24 months = $7.2 million. And $5,000 month per employee is a very very low estimate -- here in Silicon Valley the standard estimate is $10K a month for a VC-funded startup which includes salary, benefits and other overhead costs. A more realistic production cost estimate would have a longer development period and a higher cost per employee which would put it somewhere closer to $15 million (60 * 7000 * 36).

In other words I'm sure the VCs are extremely unhappy with the performance of DDO so far and Turbine needs somebody like Codemasters to hype LotRO for them to impress the VCs otherwise if the VCs have majority control of the company they are liable to sack upper management and take over direct control of the company.

[Morfiend]

But in a subscription-based game, even if you buy the box because of the license, are you going to keep paying for a lousy game? If anything SWG is evidence that the license does NOT determine success. SWG was a moderate success at it's peak, and had HUGE hype pre-launch for a year a half before it come out.

LOTR has gotten very little hype and I really don't think many people are huge LOTR buffs. LOTR was not big at all until the movies, whereas SW has had a decent following for decades.

I can see it adding to some initial box sales, but in the long term I doubt if it will make much impact. And if you want a fantasy MMORPG why won't you already be playing WoW? At least Star Trek brings something rarer to the table. (Sci-fi)

I'd be amazed if LOTR can pull in over 200k subscribers. A million? They have a better chance of winning the lottery. A million is absurd.

Edit: I can't even find a screenshot that has UI in it. This game is releasing in 6 months?

LoTR suffers the same problem as Star Wars in terms of MMO actually.
SWG , basic design flaws aside, had its biggest problem relating the in game experience to the movies everyone knows, simply because the movies are about exceptional heroes.

When everyone in the game wanted to be an exceptional hero (read: jedi) , and are given that chance, no one is then exceptional, and the experience is diluted.

Conversely, if you cant be the jedi, not enough people are interested.

In LoTR, who wants to play 'archer no.6' . Everyone wants to be Legolass the hero.
And once everyone is the exceptional hero (read: one of the fellowship) , they are no longer exceptional....

In SWG it was summed up as 'I want Jedi to be rare, just as long as I have one' syndrome.

Damn, beat me to it. I really think LOTRO will not reach its full potential due to the license restriction, in the same way SWG did. Along with the above, I think it will also suffer for a bad choice of time. SWG (and now LOTRO) are set in a time when the story is already fixed, we know the outcome, and guess what, you dont really have a part in it. How much less epic could it be?

[Kail]

LoTR suffers the same problem as Star Wars in terms of MMO actually.
SWG , basic design flaws aside, had its biggest problem relating the in game experience to the movies everyone knows, simply because the movies are about exceptional heroes.

When everyone in the game wanted to be an exceptional hero (read: jedi) , and are given that chance, no one is then exceptional, and the experience is diluted.

Conversely, if you cant be the jedi, not enough people are interested.

In LoTR, who wants to play 'archer no.6' . Everyone wants to be Legolass the hero.
And once everyone is the exceptional hero (read: one of the fellowship) , they are no longer exceptional....

In SWG it was summed up as 'I want Jedi to be rare, just as long as I have one' syndrome.

I kind of disagree with this.  I'd agree that everyone wants interesting stuff to happen to their character, but I don't think they all MUST be unstoppable slaughter factories in order for the game to appeal to them.  In Star Wars Battlefront (weak analogy, I know, but the best I could think of)  nobody complains about being a faceless Stormtrooper, because it's fun to be a Stormtrooper in those games.   In SWG, this was not the case.

I'd argue that it's a smaller problem in LotRO than it was in SWG because there are no Jedi in Lord of the Rings.  Everyone's a knight/warrior type guy, except Gandalf, so you don't get people saying "Oh, man, if ONLY I could get one of those laser swords, then combat would stop sucking somehow, and exciting things would happen! I just know it!  "  If you want to be Boromir Jr., you can, just roll up a warrior (or whatever) and play.  Nobody's going to bitch about how damaging it is to the continuity to have all these warriors around, because there WERE a ton of warriors around.  As long as mages aren't playable, that is.

Er...

On a related note, mages aren't playable, are they?  I seem to recall hearing somewhere that they weren't going to be playable, but I also thought I heard that Elves weren't going to be playable, either...

[Broughden]

Except that's a stupid strategy when you've taken in $48 million in VC money over two rounds and the best you've been able to show so far for all that money is maybe 150K copies of DDO sold which at an incredibly generous $30 per copy straight to Turbine comes out to $4.5 million. Last figure I saw had Turbine at around 120 employees. If they are split half and half on DDO and LotRO and if you were to assume they spent only two years working on DDO the production cost would at a minimum be around 60 employees * $5,000/month per employee * 24 months = $7.2 million. And $5,000 month per employee is a very very low estimate -- here in Silicon Valley the standard estimate is $10K a month for a VC-funded startup which includes salary, benefits and other overhead costs. A more realistic production cost estimate would have a longer development period and a higher cost per employee which would put it somewhere closer to $15 million (60 * 7000 * 36).

In other words I'm sure the VCs are extremely unhappy with the performance of DDO so far and Turbine needs somebody like Codemasters to hype LotRO for them to impress the VCs otherwise if the VCs have majority control of the company they are liable to sack upper management and take over direct control of the company.

Nowhere did I say their strategy was smart!  :-D Heh heh
Like I said they have failed at everything since AC.

[Venkman]

I'd argue that it's a smaller problem in LotRO than it was in SWG because there are no Jedi in Lord of the Rings.  Everyone's a knight/warrior type guy, except Gandalf, so you don't get people saying "Oh, man, if ONLY I could get one of those laser swords, then combat would stop sucking somehow, and exciting things would happen! I just know it!  Heart Heart"

They didn't want to be Jedi because it'd make combat un-suck. They wanted to be Jedi because they were cool bad-ass warrior types that trump most things (according to fans). Like LoTRO though, there really were no other Jedi when SWG was set. To me, the desire to play Gandalf is going to be an issue in LoTR similar to the desire to be a Luke-alike was in SWG. Balance is irrelevant against this desire. The only way a Gandalf could even work would be if one player per server could affect the course of history. Again, much like Luke.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Boromir, Aragon, Gimli, and so on, insert standard Human/Dwarf/Elf-generic-class choices here. Level 60/70/whatever means someone's got the equivalent skills of probably some standard Mnas Tirith footsolider, with some Talent-specced/unlock-class/Tier12-geared closeo-to-Aragorn-ability carrot to dangle forever more.

As discussed, the primary limiter is the time period. Unlike the RTS games that have come, an MMORPG specifically can not allow any one person to win. Schoolyard rules as applied to MMOGs: If you let one person win, you need to let all people win, which means nobody actually does. They'd have been better off focusing on some earlier vaguely-defined period that would flesh out lore even more.

But then they couldn't capture the awareness the movies have brought, nor time it for The Hobbit release. At least, as far as the marketing folks probably think. Someone should point them to KOTOR and just how poorly that title did because it didn't feature Luke  /sarcasm

[Miasma]

Maybe Turbine's new strategy is to get a big license, spend very little money slapping together a game and then rely entirely on initial box sales to make money.  Those who forget to cancel their subscriptions are just gravy.

Yep I said the same thing above, and believe its what they did for DDO as well.

Except that's a stupid strategy when you've taken in $48 million in VC money over two rounds and the best you've been able to show so far for all that money is maybe 150K copies of DDO sold which at an incredibly generous $30 per copy straight to Turbine comes out to $4.5 million. Last figure I saw had Turbine at around 120 employees. If they are split half and half on DDO and LotRO and if you were to assume they spent only two years working on DDO the production cost would at a minimum be around 60 employees * $5,000/month per employee * 24 months = $7.2 million. And $5,000 month per employee is a very very low estimate -- here in Silicon Valley the standard estimate is $10K a month for a VC-funded startup which includes salary, benefits and other overhead costs. A more realistic production cost estimate would have a longer development period and a higher cost per employee which would put it somewhere closer to $15 million (60 * 7000 * 36).

In other words I'm sure the VCs are extremely unhappy with the performance of DDO so far and Turbine needs somebody like Codemasters to hype LotRO for them to impress the VCs otherwise if the VCs have majority control of the company they are liable to sack upper management and take over direct control of the company.

I was only joking about it being a strategy, I don't wear a tinfoil hat.  But as far as your VC argument goes perhaps I could direct you to the people "developing" the Phantom system/keyboard as a truly superb scam to bilk naive investors out of millions of dollars.  They don't care if the VC people are unhappy, all their money has already been embezzled and spent.

[HaemishM]

Note that the idiot who said it was going to take on WoW is not from Turbine, but from the Euro publishers. These are the same assheads who think ArchonlordsofCatass is going to be a worthwhile endeavor.

He's doing that to get retailers in Europe to stock the game. It's marketing, it doesn't need to have any connection with reality.

[voblat]

Note that the idiot who said it was going to take on WoW is not from Turbine, but from the Euro publishers. These are the same assheads who think ArchonlordsofCatass is going to be a worthwhile endeavor.

He's doing that to get retailers in Europe to stock the game. It's marketing, it doesn't need to have any connection with reality.

Codemasters entire pholosphy currently seems to revolve around hosting as many MMO's as is humanly possible , regardless of content, or quality. Its confusing over here in the UK as the various mailshots/advertising etc all point out 'the greatest mmo ever' , yet are for (currently) 3 different games. They cant all be the greatest, surely...

of course, given Archlord, RF online and DDO, its actually debatable which is the worst.

[Arthur_Parker]

Source

It’s a diamond news day for fans of fantasy online role-playing games, with some hot new information and free demo action on two of the biggest RPG properties on the market, from the MMO-meisters at Turbine Inc and Codemasters Online Gaming (COG).

Turbine has just announced this morning that fans can try out Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach for seven days free of charge, by merely signing-up for it by clicking here. The trial will allow you to to build up a character for seven days and, should you wish to pay to continue playing after your free week’s play is up, continue with that character in the full game.

Secondly, but by no means any less important, is the latest on Turbine/COG’s biggest and most ambitious title to date, the bound-to-be-huge The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar. Check out the latest screens which SPOnG picked up last Friday from the guys, as we hobbled home after an elfish debauch and a night of medieval tomfoolery courtesy of COG up at Warwick Castle.

Codemasters certainly provided us with plenty of online gaming food for thought at the event, but it was the medieval comedians with their anti-French jokes who we liked the most. If you can imagine a 15th century version of Bernard Manning, then you have a good idea of what the night’s ‘turn’ was like. The collected French journos in attendance didn’t seem to find the night half as amusing as we did.

Back to the game. Lord of the Rings: Online (LOTRO for short) is essentially like World of Warcraft, but set in Middle Earth. Dedicated MMO’ers and WoW’ers will no doubt baulk at this, but for the ‘casual’ MMO’er (is there such a thing? – Ed) this is pretty much what you need to know to drop into conversation at dinner parties. SPOnG’s definition of the ‘casual’ MMO’er is this – somebody who enjoys playing online role-playing games, but also has a life outside of them - hence is likely to hold conversations 'In Real Life' with people who don't spend most of their free time pretending to be a small wood elf called Tom Tiddlytit.

For all you fans of Tolkien’s books and the hugely successful spin-off movies and videogames, you will find below all the main details on LOTRO we managed to glean from last week's event. LOTRO, in all seriousness, could well have the potential of becoming the biggest online role-playing game to date. If anything is going to ever knock World of Warcraft from its Outside Toilet - sorry, Frozen Throne, then a polished game set in Tolkien’s beloved Middle Earth is surely going to be a contender.

Firstly, you get to create your character, which can be Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf or Man, and any of seven lore-inspired classes (Champion, Minstrel, Guardian, Loremaster, Burglar, Hunter or Captain). Plus, as is fairly standard now for any decent RPG, you get to fully create and personalise the look of your character, to truly make it yours.

After this, you get to wander around a beautifully re-created Middle Earth. Starting off in Bree’s very own boozer, The Prancing Pony, you can set out to roam, explore and meet other adventurers and foes in the pastoral Shire, the eerie Barrow Downs, elegant Rivendell or beneath the dark canopy of the Old Forest, with loads more faithfully recreated lands from this unparalleled world of imagination promised.

Plus, perhaps a major selling point, you will also get the opportunity to interact with famous Tolkien characters - including Gandalf and the Fellowship, Bilbo, Elrond, Boromir, Tom Bombadil and others. The combat system is the newest and perhaps most interesting feature in the game, with the opportunity to combine your efforts with other members of your own ‘fellowship’ into devastating compound attacks. In this way, the game rewards and encourages team play in groups and fellowships.

And all the Tolkien nasties are there to be smashed and defeated - the UrukHai, Nazgûl, Orcs, Huorns, Etten, Wargs, Trolls, Goblins, Craban, Spiders, Wights, Drakes, Wraiths, and Balrogs, to name but a few!

Even if you weren’t a huge fan of the movies, this game still has the potential to appeal. For anyone - including certain members of SPOnG's staff - who fondly remembers reading Tolkien as a child, and may also remember the guilty pleasures of playing the dice-driven Middle Earth Role Playing (MERP) in the mid-80s, the opportunity to follow in the footsteps of your favorite Tolkien heroes and experience “an evolving and persistent re-creation of Tolkien’s beloved world…[facing] the dangers Frodo and the Fellowship left behind when they began their epic journey to destroy the One Ring,” is still, we have to confess, an incredibly strong proposition for an online role-playing game.

Indeed, Turbine/CGO are going to have to go quite far out of their way to mess this game up – initially at least. Whether or not it will have the longevity of WoW only time will tell. A winning ‘license to print money’ such as Lord of the Rings is one thing, but creating a community of (potentially) millions of players who are all more than happy to continue shelling out around £10 a month after the initial novelty wears off is another thing entirely.

SPOnG was slightly disappointed upon arrival at last week’s event to be told that we would not get any ‘hands on’ time with the game. It’s currently at the pre-alpha stage, so we had to make do with a short presentation from the game’s producer. We’ll be bringing you more news on when the beta testing for LOTRO will be taking place as soon as we get it.

There's some info from a German site given on the official forums here.

About blacksmiths and Boywers.

A feature that has been firmly announced is crafting. However until now almost nothing was known, apart from the fact that it would be in the game. But also on this point Jeffrey Steefel could tell us bit. The player can chose from nine professions. He could not tell us the exact names, however among them would be the regular professions such as weapon smith, armos smith and woodworker. We hope we can tell you shortly about the others since they have been decided on.

The crafting system itself has been divided in two levels. First there will be the "normal" crafting through which you can make regular objects. That will not require anything extra ordinary and should also something for the casual player.
Secondly there will be the socalled Master-Crafting. You will reach the second level, only when you have mastered the normal professions. From then on it will become much harder to further perfect your crafting skills. But, to compensate, the items you craft can measure themselves with the best looted items. A true Craftingmaster will therefore create truly wanted and useful items and does not have to fear that potential buyer will prefer to camp specific mobs.
Objects created by a Master-Crafter are the only objects in the game which are soulbound. All other items are not tied to a player and can be traded or given away.

In LOTRO objects weapons will be subject to wear and tear through use and will eventually loose all usefullness, unless you regularly visit a NPC blacksmith who will bring your gear back to full use. Reparing items is something only NPCs can do: players cannot do this.

The 9 Professions (Anyone else get the feeling the numbers 9, 7, 3 and 1 are going to crop up a lot?) from here.

Juwelier (Jeweler)

Schürfer (Prospector)

Förster (Forester)

Gelehrter (Scholar)

Koch (Cook)

Waffenschmied (Weaponsmith)

Holzarbeiter (Woodworker)

Metallschmied (Metalsmith)

Lederverarbeiter (Leatherworker)

[schild]

Eek.

[Oban]

The "Prancing Pony" and koch in the middle...

http://tinyurl.com/73me

[Pococurante]

SPOnG was slightly disappointed upon arrival at last week’s event to be told that we would not get any ‘hands on’ time with the game. It’s currently at the pre-alpha stage, so we had to make do with a short presentation from the game’s producer. We’ll be bringing you more news on when the beta testing for LOTRO will be taking place as soon as we get it.

Was this bolded in the original article or did you do it to draw out the Merch hiding behind the curtain?

[Broughden]

Back to the game. Lord of the Rings: Online (LOTRO for short) is essentially like World of Warcraft, but set in Middle Earth.

LFM 40 man raid on ring wraith PST for invite!

If anything is going to ever knock World of Warcraft from its Outside Toilet - sorry, Frozen Throne, then a polished game set in Tolkien’s beloved Middle Earth is surely going to be a contender.

Has just entered pre-alpha yet is being released in Nov (in time for Xmas kiddies!). What were you saying about "polished"?

Plus, perhaps a major selling point, you will also get the opportunity to interact with famous Tolkien characters - including Gandalf and the Fellowship, Bilbo, Elrond, Boromir, Tom Bombadil and others. The combat system is the newest and perhaps most interesting feature in the game, with the opportunity to combine your efforts with other members of your own ‘fellowship’ into devastating compound attacks. In this way, the game rewards and encourages team play in groups and fellowships.

I seem to remember EQ2 doing this?

And all the Tolkien nasties are there to be smashed and defeated - the UrukHai, Nazgûl, Orcs, Huorns, Etten, Wargs, Trolls, Goblins, Craban, Spiders, Wights, Drakes, Wraiths, and Balrogs, to name but a few!

Nothing really submerges one into the story more than seeing-
LFM camping the Balrog! PST!

Indeed, Turbine/CGO are going to have to go quite far out of their way to mess this game up – initially at least.

LOL Did you research Turbine's history before writing your article? If its possible Turbine will find a way.

SPOnG was slightly disappointed upon arrival at last week’s event to be told that we would not get any ‘hands on’ time with the game. It’s currently at the pre-alpha stage, so we had to make do with a short presentation from the game’s producer. We’ll be bringing you more news on when the beta testing for LOTRO will be taking place as soon as we get it.

And yet its supposed to release in November? 

[Margalis]

I've yet to hear a single selling point other than "it's lord of the rings."

Low number of races, low number of classes, nothing interesting about combat, or instancing or loot or levelling or areas or enemies or anything. What is this game bringing to the table?

At least games like Conan and Warhammer have something somewhat different/novel in them.

And yes, there is no way the game will be finished by November. WoW showed everyone that polish matters, so what does Turbine do? Push DDO out the door way before it's ready and then do the same with LOTR.

When consumers have more choice that sort of thing will fly less and less. AO was crap when it was released but how many other sci-fi MMORPGs where there?

Hionestly this fills me with glee because it's an accident you can see coming 500 miles away.

[Broughden]

Hionestly this fills me with glee because it's an accident you can see coming 500 miles away.

Yeah its gonna be a helluva fun train wreck to watch. I think I will go to the auctions when the VC's start selling off Turbine's equipment from their closed bankrupted offices.

[squirrel]

Hionestly this fills me with glee because it's an accident you can see coming 500 miles away.

Yeah its gonna be a helluva fun train wreck to watch. I think I will go to the auctions when the VC's start selling off Turbine's equipment from their closed bankrupted offices.

Heh - if they put the source in escrow that could actually be a good buy.

[Arthur_Parker]

Was this bolded in the original article or did you do it to draw out the Merch hiding behind the curtain?

Not bolded in the original, I just like it being pre-Alpha & out in November.

[voblat]

Was this bolded in the original article or did you do it to draw out the Merch hiding behind the curtain?

Not bolded in the original, I just like it being pre-Alpha & out in November.

That sentence could probably be used as a review in 8 months time, combine it with a low score, and it tells the whole story.

[Arthur_Parker]

Source German interview with Turbine's Jeffrey Steefel (nasty popup site)

Which advantages do you have when you join a kinship in lord of the rings online?
At launch kinship is gonna be fairly basic to the MMO. It is a way for people to group together to make people share some questing. It´s a way for people to share some items and loot and its a social way for people to get together. In our elder game there will be more siginficant reasons to be in a kinship.

What are these features that you plan for the kinship?
We are not talking about that just yet... soon

We saw one new screenshot where guild members had capes...
That is something that we have been wanting to do and haven´t done it yet. It´s not certainly in the game and you never know between now and launch how many cycles we have but it´s something we wanna do.

Which fast traveling possibilities will there be in LotRO?
We have a travel network with nodes in every major social center which are stables basically. When you are in the town you go to the stables where the horses are. You talk to the stable master and give him some money. Very little bit money it is not to meant a big money thing in the game and than you teleport instantly to another note.

How does the crafting system work?
We have nine professions (Jeweler, Prospector,  Forrester, Scholar, Cook, Weaponsmith, Woodworker, Metalsmith, Leatherworker) and seven locations it is not a crafting class it´s a mini game fairly standard in that, by standard I mean recognizable to people who play these games so we not make new ways to doing it so you need to harvest you need to refine the materials and you need to craft.

Can you do it all buy your own or do you need support?
You can do it all by your own. We want it to be easy for players to geht through you can actualy get through all the professions as a not hardcore crafter.
Than there is a second tier of crafting that´s called mastery. So mastery is a little bit different you do your basic crafting the function is essentialy the same but first of all you have to had mastery in that particular crafting profession. Once you have it you´re eligible for mastery, you master that vocation, and than you get to add an extra item to your ingredients. It´s a very special mastery kind of special item that item will increase your crit probability for a rare item in crafting. Those items can be things that you find on landscape, that can be things that you only get from a particular vendor, that can be things that you can only get by “finding an elve who knows how to craft a mithril”. For an average player you can do it on your own, you can do as much as you want you can do it fairly easy. For an more advanced player who wants to make the really cool staff than you need to find special things and you may be dependent on other people from time to time.

Will crafted items be as good as looted ones and drops?
In the mastery level yes.

Will equipped items stay tradable or will they be bound to the player?
Yes... you mean the crafted items?

Any item.
Yes you can trade it but there will be some special rare items that get created through the mastery level that will probably be character bound.

Will there be instruments for the minstrel instead of weapons? Or instruments at all?
Minstrels like all classes can still do melee attack if they want to. They will have no more equipment for those special attacks but for their buffs and things like that .. yeah we will probably have musical instruments for them. Right now it´s more like a spell effect. They´re not gonna standing there playing a lire.

But you plan to implement instruments?
We have talked about it...but the most important part of what the ministrel is doing is really the effects that he is casting, so focus on those effects. Buffs in terms of what you see and also what actually happens when they do it.

Are this mainly group buffs?
Mostly

We talked about tradeable items I forgot to ask if there will be auction houses or something like that in the game?
That is an interesting question

Yes, indeed
It is something we will have definetly in our game. It´s something we are hoping to have by launch.

What are the death penalties in the game and what happens when your character dies?
Death penalities are very very slight in this game. You will not die you are defeated you get “taken to a place of safety and restore”. Right now the penalty is very small you have to travel to the place where you were defeated. We are not take items from you. We are not going to make you go finding your body.  Maybe i have a personal hature with that but after so many years of everquest...

Will all races have their own language and do the player has to invest skill points in languages to understand the other races?
We talked for a long time about it. The language is so big in tolkiens world, we talked about it in any ways in which we can use language. You need it to learn, etc. No, you can understand each other. Everybody speaks the common tongue at least in the game, in the game world they do.

How about the storyline for each player, how will you realize this?
Everbody basiclly has the same storyline all we´re really talked about is that in a couple of very important epic instances which are maybe twenty levels apart, thirty levels apart you have this experience that actualy changes the world. When you go into it you´re going into an instance. The first time you go there you´re going into an instance. Second time you go in, you´re going into another instance. The third time you go in you´re going into the public world. The public world is already in the final state. You can´t get into the final state public world until you gone through those instances. So the only inconsistency will happen if you and I are very different levels and on a different story level and we decide to party together and want to meet at one place. You´re gonna be standing in front of a building and me not. The reason that we have the multiple levels apart is that it´s not very common for people to do these kinds of experiences with people that are twenty levels apart. When they do you have the opportunity to either step back or you step forward. If you are the Level 40 and I am the level 10 and it´s a level 10 Dungeon you can opt for the duration of the instance to be level 10, or I can opt for the duration of the instance to come with you but I can not gonna advance my skills but I still have to go eventually through it.

What does female Dwarfs look like?
Hmm, they don´t exist. It´s the only race that doesn´t have a female avatar. It´s just to frightining to imagine what a female dwarf will be.


In the books it doesn’t get clear, who reigns over the dwarves of the Ered Luin after Thorin died. Can you tell us something about how this will be solved in LotRO? Who will be the leader of the dwarves in the Ered Luin?
That´s a good question, but you don´t really need to have an answer.

What will happen, when Frodo and Sam reach Mordor, when we get to the end of the story?
First of all that will gonna be years from now. But second of all, there is a couple of things... there are three ways we can go. One is we can start providing new content from the fourth age which we will have to invent most of it because there is only a little bit of information about it. We can go back in time... thats...wired. Or the most likely we say: look we reach a sort of persistent state to some degree there are some things that can happen right, Frodo comes back or a lot or other stuff can happen. But it becomes more of a steady state and we will soon get over that four years five years period time that our technology the game industry our community comes to the point where players are very involved in the evolution of the world and Tolkien has demonstrated to me so far that if it make sense they´re not having fun with the content you created. So the issue will be if it becomes more of a real no time persistent world elder player becomes a very large thing by than and players are creating their own kind of entertainment. I can´t wait to be at that point.

Thank you very much.
Thank you.

I believe we might be entering a golden age of comedy with LOTRO.

I like the cape screenshot, yeah, *cough* we aren't sure capes will be in the game.

[schild]

I'm not trying to slight turbine here, but is the crossover of LoTR nerds and gamers that large? Are there that many people who want to LIVE in fucking middle earth? It's the most generic fantasy world ever conceived. In fact, it is the birth mother of generic bullshit in the fantasy genre. What made it great was the story. There's no chance the game is going to recreate any of the great parts of the stories. And you really have to be 12 years old to think Middle Earth would be a fantastic place to live. Established MMOG companies have no interest in being that edgy right now.

Is it just me or is every license with it's own world going to one day become an MMOG?

[HRose]

We have a travel network with nodes in every major social center which are stables basically. When you are in the town you go to the stables where the horses are. You talk to the stable master and give him some money. Very little bit money it is not to meant a big money thing in the game and than you teleport instantly to another note.

...wow!

What does female Dwarfs look like?
Hmm, they don´t exist. It´s the only race that doesn´t have a female avatar. It´s just to frightining to imagine what a female dwarf will be.

...wow!

[Trippy]

How about the storyline for each player, how will you realize this?

Everbody basiclly has the same storyline all we´re really talked about is that in a couple of very important epic instances which are maybe twenty levels apart, thirty levels apart you have this experience that actualy changes the world. When you go into it you´re going into an instance. The first time you go there you´re going into an instance. Second time you go in, you´re going into another instance. The third time you go in you´re going into the public world. The public world is already in the final state. You can´t get into the final state public world until you gone through those instances. So the only inconsistency will happen if you and I are very different levels and on a different story level and we decide to party together and want to meet at one place. You´re gonna be standing in front of a building and me not. The reason that we have the multiple levels apart is that it´s not very common for people to do these kinds of experiences with people that are twenty levels apart. When they do you have the opportunity to either step back or you step forward. If you are the Level 40 and I am the level 10 and it´s a level 10 Dungeon you can opt for the duration of the instance to be level 10, or I can opt for the duration of the instance to come with you but I can not gonna advance my skills but I still have to go eventually through it.

Huh? I think something got lost in translation here.

[voblat]

Huh? I think something got lost in translation here.

Is that in the article or just the whole middle earth into game scenario?

the more I read, the more I'm fairly sure the latter applies.

[Arthur_Parker]

Huh? I think something got lost in translation here.

I believe they are having layered outdoor instances.  So for example I start in a village with the blacksmith shop on fire, I do a quest to get water and help put the fire out.  Now every time I am in that village the Blacksmith is a burnt out shell, you then have the option for a third instance where you have helped to rebuild the shop.

So you have 3 instances of the village, each looks right to you but a new player might not be in the same instance as you.  It's not a bad idea, no idea if it will work in practice.

[Trippy]

Huh? I think something got lost in translation here.

I believe they are having layered outdoor instances.  So for example I start in a village with the blacksmith shop on fire, I do a quest to get water and help put the fire out.  Now every time I am in that village the Blacksmith is a burnt out shell, you then have the option for a third instance where you have helped to rebuild the shop.

So you have 3 instances of the village, each looks right to you but a new player might not be in the same instance as you.  It's not a bad idea, no idea if it will work in practice.

Okay that's incredibly bizarre if two people can be standing in the same place at the same time and one player sees a burnt out shell and the other sees the blacksmith shop still intact (or on fire).

Edit: clarified text

[squirrel]

I'm not trying to slight turbine here, but is the crossover of LoTR nerds and gamers that large? Are there that many people who want to LIVE in fucking middle earth? It's the most generic fantasy world ever conceived. In fact, it is the birth mother of generic bullshit in the fantasy genre. What made it great was the story. There's no chance the game is going to recreate any of the great parts of the stories. And you really have to be 12 years old to think Middle Earth would be a fantastic place to live. Established MMOG companies have no interest in being that edgy right now.

Is it just me or is every license with it's own world going to one day become an MMOG?

No I don't think the crossover is very large. Good fantasy/sci-fi does not guarantee an audience of all mediums. Blizz got it right with WoW because it's based on a previious game world. Warcraft III fans were very likely to become WoW fans. LoTR literature fans, not so much, and while the movies were big i doubt they stuck with people long enough to matter for this title.

Further, the hardcore LoTR fans I have known are brutal sticklers for the lore and details, if the game trivializes the epic nature of the setting (bad call on the era) the hate will be huge.

Gonna be a show i think!

[stray]

incredibly bizarre

While it's nice and all that these ideas lend to a more rich single player-like experience, I have to wonder why they didn't just make a single player to begin with. That would not only be more practical, but probably more profitable as well.

I really don't want to start a debate on instancing or anything, but seriously....What's the point of ideas like this? They're called massively multiplayer games for a reason (Last I checked at least). If you want to make a rich experience for players, make it a rich massively multiplayer experience.

[jason]

The problem for me is still that I just don't see how Lord of the Rings could possibly make a good MMO.  Single player RPG, sure.  Even a co-op multi-player RPG.  RTS, yep.  But an MMO with hundreds, thousands of people...  either everyone has to be a "random guy" from their chosen race, or this game will be nothing but pissing all over the source material.

They might surprise me and make a very excellent game that manages to stay true to the books, but I highly doubt it.

And the layered content just sounds odd.
Player1 shouts, "Fire! Help! The blacksmith is on fire!"
Player2 shouts, "No it isn't."
Player1 shouts, "It is! Help me!"
Player3 shouts, "He can't help you, he's already done that quest so he can't see the fire."
Player1 shouts, "What?"
Player2 shouts, "Yeah, I failed that quest and the blacksmith burned down, so now I have to travel over to the Shire to get my blacksmith work done."
Player3 shouts, "Hey, if you need something fixed, just trade it to me and I'll do it.  My blacksmith is fine."
Player1 shouts, "I'm really confused."
Player4 shouts, "You think YOU are confused, what about the blacksmith!"
Player3 shouts, "LOL!"
Player2 shouts, "HAHA!"
Player1 shouts, "What?"

[Venkman]

So the only inconsistency will happen if you and I are very different levels and on a different story level and we decide to party together and want to meet at one place. You´re gonna be standing in front of a building and me not.

This is cute on paper, but I can't see it making it through testing. Most importantly, it would make for a sucky experience once the few minutes of "oh gee" wore off. Secondarily though, Middle Earth is not a multiverse with millions of people traveling infinite timelines concurrently. In the end, I imagine they'll end up with some sort of experiential gate. Instead of seeing a burned-out building, both players will see a door. When one opens the door, they enter an instance with the completed building. When the other opens the door, they enter a burned out building. If both want to see what the other is seeing, they'll be grouped, and the game mechanic will decide which instance to spawn. Typical instance handling here.

Otherwise, there's just nothing solid on the game at this point beyond the normal mix of we've-been-there.

[Murgos]

When you go into it you´re going into an instance. The first time you go there you´re going into an instance. Second time you go in, you´re going into another instance. The third time you go in you´re going into the public world. The public world is already in the final state. You can´t get into the final state public world until you gone through those instances.

Obviously, it's gated.

There is a little of this in WoW.  I know that in the starting night-elf area there is a something that looks one way before you've done the quest and another to people who have finished it.  It's always in the same spot and it's always got the same name, it's just a graphical change.  Not a big deal and most people never even notice it.

The way this sounds is that all people of a similar level will probably be at the same points of the arc and see the same things.  The example given was when there was a large difference in levels.  Fair enough.

I have actually been expecting this facet of design to be exploited a lot earlier.  There is NO REASON everyone needs to see the same thing the same way in an MMOG.  You could in a pvp game have everyone on your team look great and everyone on the opposing team be ugly, regardless of what team your on.  Or lands controlled by your faction be green and growing and lands owned by the opposition be dead and dying, again regardless of what team your on.

I'd expect to see a lot more of this in the future.

[shiznitz]

Okay that's incredibly bizarre if two people can be standing in the same place at the same time and one player sees a burnt out shell and the other sees the blacksmith shop still intact (or on fire).

Edit: clarified text

It is not clear to me that the two people will see each other. They will probably be in completely different instances. Think Antonica1 and Antonica2 in EQ2. Same "zone" but not shared space.

[Venkman]

The problem is not what your enemy or their land looks like. It's the innocent bystander and your allies of different levels. There's subtle ways of having different experiences like WoW's system. It works because most people don't know it. You could go further, make this ability-based where, say, a Hunter could simply see farther, or their head (and therefore the player POV) automatically turn to face a sound, or they could actually see rendered animal tracks where others don't.

But to actually change the face of the land itself such that one person sees a building and another does not? The lore would need to explain it (which even LoTR would support through 'Visions'), or the game would need to be zoned, with rules about who can enter what parts.

[Murgos]

That wasn't the example given.  The example was one sees an intact building and the other one sees a burnt out building.

That is NOT the same as existance and non-existance.  Having different content is a whole nother barrel of fish.

[Arthur_Parker]

I think the real reason for the layered instances is to allow them to introduce and remove the main characters at different points throughout the game (as the story advances).  The game looks like it will follow the books, release includes the north west to the gates of Moria (I think).

I'd much rather have a MEO set in MERP time during the Great Plague in TA 1640 as it allows a lot more freedom with magic use etc, but they can't do that as they don't have the license.  So with what they have to work with, the instances might do.  But instances don't help roleplaying, and with no evil races or player character pvp.... a lot is going to depend on there being enough content to last until the expansion.

[Venkman]

That wasn't the example given.  The example was one sees an intact building and the other one sees a burnt out building.

That is NOT the same as existance and non-existance.  Having different content is a whole nother barrel of fish.

True, but I'm inferring that the different states of the building are temporal. If Player A sees the whole building before it's burnt, while Player B sees it after, that's not that different from existance/non-existance experientially. The building and its meaning to both players is almost as fundamentally different (ie, Player A needs the building for a quest NPC inside while Player B needs to pick through the ruins for a slip of paper the NPC dropped when fleeing the fire).