Lord of the Rings Online - The target is WoW

[Arthur_Parker]

Ok sorry for yet another Turbine thread but this is too crazy not to post.

Source

Codemasters held a big press event yesterday (4/20) in the UK, with Jeffrey Steefel there to show off the game. Don't be surprised if you see more previews and articles coming out over the next couple of days!

Gamespot Preview

The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar is set for release on the PC in November 2006, and we met with Codemasters to see the game before it moves into alpha stage
...
*snip*
...

There are 50 levels of advancement through the game, but Codemasters promises that progression will be more complex than building up simple experience points.

Gamesindustry.biz

The target is WoW, says general manager of publisher's online gaming division.

Vice president and general manager of Codemasters Online Gaming (COG), David Solari, has revealed a target of over a million players for the division's upcoming Lord of the Ring Online (LOTRO) title and admitted intentions to compete directly with Blizzard's genre-leading World of Warcraft.

"I think the goal [for LOTRO] would be over a million subscribers in the west," said Solari, speaking at the COG LiVE event in Warwick, UK, yesterday. "World of Warcraft is such a benchmark now, but if something's going to do it it's going to be a Lord of the Rings brand that lets people play in that environment and experience that content. It's got to have probably the best chance of competing with it."

LOTRO, developed by US developer Turbine, is scheduled for a Q4 release. Demoed in fully playable form at the event by executive producer Jeff Steefel, the initial release is to include the content from the first Lord of the Rings book, The Fellowship of the Ring, with the rest of the trilogy to be added as the game evolves. Turbine holds the rights to produce MMO content based on Tolkien's novels, as opposed to the recent New Line movies.

LOTRO is the most mainstream part of a quartet of titles from COG in 2006, the rest of which includes Korean import Archlord from NHN and the recently released duo of Turbine-developed Dungeons & Dragons Online and CCR Corporation's RF Online.

"Lord of the Rings is a pretty all encompassing MMO with a great brand behind it. So that's a generally more competitive game," Solari added. "All the games are quite different, which is what we decided to go for."

[Trippy]

Okay...

[Samwise]

It's three weeks late for April Fool's.  And a day late for 4/20.

[Zane0]

I think this touted 'battle of the titans' will be very enjoyable in one way or another.

[jpark]

From what I have heard of LoTR it makes DDO sound feature heavy.

[Trippy]

Gamespot Preview

The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar is set for release on the PC in November 2006, and we met with Codemasters to see the game before it moves into alpha stage

The game isn't even alpha yet and they expect to release it in 7 months?

[WindupAtheist]

Awesome.  Now nobody can cry "Niche game!" when WoW splatters this thing into the floor.  It's like Carrot Top signing to fight Lennox Lewis.

[stray]

Actually, Carrot Top is pretty ripped these days.

[Lantyssa]

Trippy -- and I don't mean the board member.

[Signe]

Oh good, I really needed to see Carrot Top's pubes... again.

[Fabricated]

Oh good, I really needed to see Carrot Top's pubes... again.

Maybe you just like staring at them and don't know it. I didn't notice until I read your post.

[Broughden]

Gamespot Preview

The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar is set for release on the PC in November 2006, and we met with Codemasters to see the game before it moves into alpha stage

The game isn't even alpha yet and they expect to release it in 7 months?

They dont seem to have a firm grasp on the concept of beta testing at Turbine. 

[Margalis]

The telling quote is this:

"World of Warcraft is such a benchmark now, but if something's going to do it it's going to be a Lord of the Rings brand that lets people play in that environment and experience that content. It's got to have probably the best chance of competing with it."

The LOTR brand means nothing. What is the Lord of the Rings brand? Orcs and trolls. Wow, how unique.

Brands matter for initial box sales. For continuing subs I doubt they matter at all. Even for initial sales things like company track record, previous games, etc, mean a lot more than just the brand in isolation.

The LOTR brand is fairly worthless, it brings nothing to the table at all. It's old hat.

The right message would be "LOTR is going to compete with WoW because it's a better game." I doubt they can say that with a straight face though.

Edit: The Gamespot preview sounds likea horrible clusterfuck. The game is 80% complete, in pre-alpha, but coming out this year? I liked this:

The health bar used isn't based on the physical state of your player but is instead based on morale, so the more good deeds you perform, the further you move away from being able to be defeated. It was something that couldn't be shown at this early stage, but we look forward to seeing how well this arrangement turns out in the finished game.

So they've fundamentally changed one of the most important elements in MMOPRGs, they've spent four years working, have 600 quests, are releasing this year, and can't show off this core dynamic that should have been testable in the first 6 months. Incredible.

Get the key features in early. Make it fun from day one. These are fundamental commandments. Something like this which is novel and dangerous should have been demonstratable YEARS ago!


Then there was this gem:

The Lord of the Rings Online offers four playable character races: hobbits, dwarfs, elves, and humans.

WOW. THAT'S THE BEST MOST EXCITING LINEUP OF RACES IN ANY GAME EVER!

Seriously talk about being hobbled by your license. Humans, short humans, even shorter humans and skinny humans.


And of course:

Even though the game will not be released for another six months, expansion packs are already being planned

Cart before horse.

It seems like their entire strategy is "it's the Lord of the fucking Rings!" Is there any other selling point here at all? I know it's easy to armchair quaterback and it's always easier to get a clear view from the outside but sometimes it seems like some people just have no clue whatsoever what the hell they are doing, as if they project manager, lead engineer and lead designer got hired directly out of the Burger King fry station.

There are many many mistakes you can make in software development, but being totally clueless is a pretty bad one.

My bold prediction is that this game will be both delayed and awful.

[stray]

I almost had something to say...

More Carrot Top pictures anyone?

[Broughden]

The telling quote is this:

"World of Warcraft is such a benchmark now, but if something's going to do it it's going to be a Lord of the Rings brand that lets people play in that environment and experience that content. It's got to have probably the best chance of competing with it."

The LOTR brand means nothing. What is the Lord of the Rings brand? Orcs and trolls. Wow, how unique.

Brands matter for initial box sales. For continuing subs I doubt they matter at all. Even for initial sales things like company track record, previous games, etc, mean a lot more than just the brand in isolation.

The LOTR brand is fairly worthless, it brings nothing to the table at all. It's old hat.

The right message would be "LOTR is going to compete with WoW because it's a better game." I doubt they can say that with a straight face though.

Well the telling part of the quote might be that they put little to no money into developement, are hoping to lure people in based on name recognition alone, and simply turn a quick buck on the unit sales.
We are talking about the same company that announced they were shutting down servers for an MMO two months after releasing a retail expansion for the same game. And my own opinion is that is the business model they used for DDO.

Other than AC1 they dont have the best of track records to date.

[stray]

Actually, I do have something to say...

Licenses can be a big factor (sad as that might be). I'm pretty sure that I'll give the Trek MMO a "try" when it's released simply because it's Trek (and it's not like I even like Trek that much). I can imagine that if somebody is actually crazy about a license (like the gajillion LoTR fans out there), a game, no matter how crappy, would be even more alluring. Hell, people are still playing SWG, aren't they?

[Margalis]

But in a subscription-based game, even if you buy the box because of the license, are you going to keep paying for a lousy game? If anything SWG is evidence that the license does NOT determine success. SWG was a moderate success at it's peak, and had HUGE hype pre-launch for a year a half before it come out.

LOTR has gotten very little hype and I really don't think many people are huge LOTR buffs. LOTR was not big at all until the movies, whereas SW has had a decent following for decades.

I can see it adding to some initial box sales, but in the long term I doubt if it will make much impact. And if you want a fantasy MMORPG why won't you already be playing WoW? At least Star Trek brings something rarer to the table. (Sci-fi)

I'd be amazed if LOTR can pull in over 200k subscribers. A million? They have a better chance of winning the lottery. A million is absurd.

Edit: I can't even find a screenshot that has UI in it. This game is releasing in 6 months?

[voblat]

But in a subscription-based game, even if you buy the box because of the license, are you going to keep paying for a lousy game? If anything SWG is evidence that the license does NOT determine success. SWG was a moderate success at it's peak, and had HUGE hype pre-launch for a year a half before it come out.

LOTR has gotten very little hype and I really don't think many people are huge LOTR buffs. LOTR was not big at all until the movies, whereas SW has had a decent following for decades.

I can see it adding to some initial box sales, but in the long term I doubt if it will make much impact. And if you want a fantasy MMORPG why won't you already be playing WoW? At least Star Trek brings something rarer to the table. (Sci-fi)

I'd be amazed if LOTR can pull in over 200k subscribers. A million? They have a better chance of winning the lottery. A million is absurd.

Edit: I can't even find a screenshot that has UI in it. This game is releasing in 6 months?

LoTR suffers the same problem as Star Wars in terms of MMO actually.
SWG , basic design flaws aside, had its biggest problem relating the in game experience to the movies everyone knows, simply because the movies are about exceptional heroes.

When everyone in the game wanted to be an exceptional hero (read: jedi) , and are given that chance, no one is then exceptional, and the experience is diluted.

Conversely, if you cant be the jedi, not enough people are interested.

In LoTR, who wants to play 'archer no.6' . Everyone wants to be Legolass the hero.
And once everyone is the exceptional hero (read: one of the fellowship) , they are no longer exceptional....

In SWG it was summed up as 'I want Jedi to be rare, just as long as I have one' syndrome.

[Broughden]

Hell, people are still playing SWG, aren't they?

 :-D I think you just made someone at SOE cry.

[Azazel]

The telling quote is this:
The LOTR brand means nothing. What is the Lord of the Rings brand? Orcs and trolls. Wow, how unique.

Brands matter for initial box sales. For continuing subs I doubt they matter at all. Even for initial sales things like company track record, previous games, etc, mean a lot more than just the brand in isolation.

The LOTR brand is fairly worthless, it brings nothing to the table at all. It's old hat.

My bold prediction is that this game will be both delayed and awful.

I disagree. It's a strong brand and licence, but you need at least a decent product if you want to take it anywhere.

(see: Wars, Star. Dragons, Dungeons and)

I do, however, agree with your bold prediction.

[Arthur_Parker]

Seriously talk about being hobbled by your license. Humans, short humans, even shorter humans and skinny humans.

I like this.

[Venkman]

License can attract, but it's the game play that keeps.

Normally that wouldn't matter because most licenses are thrown at momentary experiences forgotten after the first few months. But most MMORPGs require both attraction and persistent retention, unless you're ArenaNet and built a game you can afford to keep active for a year and a half on box sales and VC alone.

LoTR attracts because of narrative. But Warcraft attracts because of fans of *craft games and retains because the latest iteration is a successful game system. Game mechanic as a brand, after a fashion.

[Miasma]

Maybe Turbine's new strategy is to get a big license, spend very little money slapping together a game and then rely entirely on initial box sales to make money.  Those who forget to cancel their subscriptions are just gravy.

[Sparky]

Oh dear, this is just setting themselves up for a spectacular fall.  But it will be fun watching the fanbois spin that statement by, let's say, January '07.

[sinij]

Psychos.

[Venkman]

Oh dear, this is just setting themselves up for a spectacular fall.  But it will be fun watching the fanbois spin that statement by, let's say, January '07.

Let's remember this isn't Turbine making the statement though, at least based on what I've read. It's the Codemasters folks, with their entire business currently relying on selling other people's work.

[jpark]

They could be following EQ2 Model - perform the real beta testing after release  :-D

[Arthur_Parker]

Interview with Lord of the Rings Online's Jeffrey Steefel Part 1 & Part 2

OGaming: Gamers can play as men, elves, dwarves, hobbits – why not a ring-wraith, orc or balrog? What are the chances we'll encounter creatures like these during our adventures? And why shouldn't we greet them with a handshake and a smile?

Jeffrey Steefel: First of all, Middle-earth would not be Middle-earth without its creatures. You will encounter, sometimes to your peril, most of the fiends you might expect, including creatures like Orcs, Trolls, Wraiths, Goblins, Huorns… dozens of familiar monsters from the Tolkien bestiary. As for a handshake, well, that depends on how much you need that hand. As for players being monsters… Hmmmm…

[Malathor]

My bold prediction is that this game will be both delayed and awful.

I'll second that. These guys simply don't seem to have a clue.

[Broughden]

Maybe Turbine's new strategy is to get a big license, spend very little money slapping together a game and then rely entirely on initial box sales to make money.  Those who forget to cancel their subscriptions are just gravy.

Yep I said the same thing above, and believe its what they did for DDO as well.

[Mesozoic]

Wait, wait...I thought the SWG guys were going to beat WoW.

[Simond]

Oh dear, this is just setting themselves up for a spectacular fall.  But it will be fun watching the fanbois spin that statement by, let's say, January '07.

Let's remember this isn't Turbine making the statement though, at least based on what I've read. It's the Codemasters folks, with their entire business currently relying on selling other people's work.

Turbine are probably weeping openly after reading that interview.

...

Those who haven't quit already, I mean.

[Endie]

I dunno.  If it's true that you learn from your mistakes then Turbine must be due something absolutely gobsmacking sooner or later...

[Margalis]

Most people don't learn from mistakes, they commit the exact same mistakes over and over again. Sad but true.

[Tale]

This is from the official MEO/LOTRO newsletter a couple of years ago (they changed it quicksmart after I posted it on Corpnews):



This may be just a spelling flame, but it sapped my interest at the time.