Player funeral ambushed.

[Slayerik]

Looked like winterspring to me... Contested zone...

[Broughden]

Looked like winterspring to me... Contested zone...

yeah might have been. Could you see what town they left from though? Like I said the move version I saw on the net is really blury.

[Slayerik]

Looked like winterspring to me... Contested zone...

yeah might have been. Could you see what town they left from though? Like I said the move version I saw on the net is really blury.

Its the alliance town in NW felwood....not sure the name, never played Alli that high....

[Broughden]

Looked like winterspring to me... Contested zone...

yeah might have been. Could you see what town they left from though? Like I said the move version I saw on the net is really blury.

Its the alliance town in NW felwood....not sure the name, never played Alli that high....

Okay I know the one you are talking about! No wonder I didnt recognize it...never spent that much time in Felwood. Thanks for the info and the correction!

[Pococurante]

Ugh.

Look some things in life are predictable and easily avoidable.  When someone bucks the predictability and determines not to avoid the avoidable it may not be "deserved" but it's certainly THEIR decision and THEY need to accept SOME accountability.

In this case if someone wants to buck chance, to Give The World A Chance To Redeem Itself they really honestly cannot claim complete ignorance when the world lets them down.  Is it a form of bravery?  Probably.  But it's also passive self-destructive hostility at its seamiest - a desire to control the world around them, to exercise free will, without accepting the consequences.

To play the martyr.

There are some things I just know won't get the result I want.  I can claim self-righteousness by bucking reality.  But in the end the person who took the chance was me - Actions Have Consequences.  It does NOT make it right, pretty, or anything even remotely assuming Perfection.  But I'm hardly off the hook just because I made a "calculated" decision that flies in the face of all expectation.

I'm not excusing.  I'm not "blaming the victim".  I'm simply observing ALL actions have consequences and my making a poor decision just because the backdrop is In The Name Of The Angels does not resolve ANY obligation I have to act responsibly.

What's going through my mind right now is not a game scenario.  It's the Duke U./ la crosse issue.  Damn I feel for that girl.  I wish I could reverse time for her.  But in the end it never occurs to me to recommend to my 19 year old daughter she go earn some quick dollars with a known bunch of jock fuckups by closeting herself in their house late at night where even just arguing taxi fare becomes a 'he said / she said' thing.

Justified? No.  Deserved? No. Something fairly predictable?

Go figure.

This is just an in-game event.  But while the stakes are lower the reasoning process is the same.

[Broughden]

Poco,

Newton's Third Law and Karma all rolled into one?

[HaemishM]

What's going through my mind right now is not a game scenario.  It's the Duke U./ la crosse issue.  Damn I feel for that girl.  I wish I could reverse time for her.  But in the end it never occurs to me to recommend to my 19 year old daughter she go earn some quick dollars with a known bunch of jock fuckups by closeting herself in their house late at night where even just arguing taxi fare becomes a 'he said / she said' thing.

Hate to tell you this but you ARE blaming the victim. Sure, it's a situation she and they should not have put themselves in; that's where the "this was a stupid idea" part came into it. But in the end, it isn't her/their fault that some other people cannot act like human beings. These people didn't ASK to be raped/assraped, and they were. For whatever bad judgement the victim had in this instance, it is still the responsibility of the attackers to be decent human beings and not total cockmonkeys. Just saying "You should have expected it" isn't enough. It isn't the attacker's responsibility to teach the idiots a lesson, it's their responsibiilty to have a little goddamn human decency and not fuck up a funeral just because they can.

[Roac]

Hate to tell you this but you ARE blaming the victim. Sure, it's a situation she and they should not have put themselves in; that's where the "this was a stupid idea" part came into it. But in the end, it isn't her/their fault that some other people cannot act like human beings. These people didn't ASK to be raped/assraped, and they were. For whatever bad judgement the victim had in this instance, it is still the responsibility of the attackers to be decent human beings and not total cockmonkeys. Just saying "You should have expected it" isn't enough. It isn't the attacker's responsibility to teach the idiots a lesson, it's their responsibiilty to have a little goddamn human decency and not fuck up a funeral just because they can.

What gets me in situations like this is the notion that there must be A guilty party.  As in, only one person/group can be accountable, and the only discussion is which participant that might be. 

[HaemishM]

No, they are both accountable. It just so happens that the funeral party got kicked in the junk for being stupid enough to host a player's RL funeral in a PVP+ zone, while the people who acted like total subhuman douchebags got their rocks off and didn't get punished for it. Karma smacked the stupids upside the head, but we have to wait a bit longer for the antisocial retards to get their comeuppance, a comeuppance we'll never see.

[voblat]

Hate to tell you this but you ARE blaming the victim. Sure, it's a situation she and they should not have put themselves in; that's where the "this was a stupid idea" part came into it. But in the end, it isn't her/their fault that some other people cannot act like human beings. These people didn't ASK to be raped/assraped, and they were. For whatever bad judgement the victim had in this instance, it is still the responsibility of the attackers to be decent human beings and not total cockmonkeys. Just saying "You should have expected it" isn't enough. It isn't the attacker's responsibility to teach the idiots a lesson, it's their responsibiilty to have a little goddamn human decency and not fuck up a funeral just because they can.

What gets me in situations like this is the notion that there must be A guilty party.  As in, only one person/group can be accountable, and the only discussion is which participant that might be. 

Both certainly have some responsibility, however, I defy anyone to tell me that having some little asshole saying 'glad the bitch died' in game at the funeral and later on forums is anyones fault but the asshole.

[Roac]

No, they are both accountable. It just so happens that the funeral party got kicked in the junk for being stupid enough to host a player's RL funeral in a PVP+ zone, while the people who acted like total subhuman douchebags got their rocks off and didn't get punished for it. Karma smacked the stupids upside the head, but we have to wait a bit longer for the antisocial retards to get their comeuppance, a comeuppance we'll never see.

If Karma got its revenge against assholes, real estate would be very cheap.

[Arthur_Parker]

Nobody who fucking lines up their gnome mage in winterspring in some kind of bizarre conga dance is fucking grieving.

[Broughden]

Karma smacked the stupids upside the head,

When did Blizzard install a Karma System in WOW?

Like I said I think the whole episode was rather amusing.

[schild]

No, they are both accountable. It just so happens that the funeral party got kicked in the junk for being stupid enough to host a player's RL funeral in a PVP+ zone, while the people who acted like total subhuman douchebags got their rocks off and didn't get punished for it. Karma smacked the stupids upside the head, but we have to wait a bit longer for the antisocial retards to get their comeuppance, a comeuppance we'll never see.

Isn't it just a matter of taste here though? That's how I look at it. It was in awful bad taste to attack a funeral. But then, the rules of online life haven't really been decided yet. It wasn't a real funeral and the avatar (of the player who died) is just a shell. It's 1s and 0s. But the avatars, lined up on a beach, in the eyes of the raiding party, are experience, honor points, and loots. Now, as for karma - despite me finding the situation funny and something of an icon of online gaming - doesn't the fact that they have enough time to organize this sort of shit prove that they've already gotten their comeuppance. They're obviously not breeding. I don't think anyone with kids or even a real girlfriend would have the balls to participate in something this heineous. That all said, I stand by my original statement - shouldn't have had it in a contested zone.

And that's all it came down too.

They made themselves targets and the asshole quotient in WoW is through the roof. So, shocking - not quite. Bad taste - definately. Happen again? Assuredly. 7 Million people in WoW, you could probably ween real statistics by running a census. Births, deaths, weddings, average income, etc. At the end of the day, I'd rather them be assholes online and not leave the house. It's bad enough that I have to make smalltalk with people about WoW since everyone plays the fucking thing. Though those scenes usually end with, "that's great, someone stole your cloudsong, now shut the fuck up and let me finish peeing."

[Tebonas]

You are aware that a RL funeral is not for the dear departed but for the people he leaves behind? So the online funeral had exactly the same relevance as a RL one. The thing at the funeral is always only an empty shell.

[schild]

You are aware that a RL funeral is not for the dear departed but for the people he leaves behind? So the online funeral had exactly the same relevance as a RL one. The thing at the funeral is always only an empty shell.

That wasn't my point. Let's make it more clear - if I died and a bunch of my guildmates in whatever MMORPG I happened to be playing held a funeral in a PvP+ zone, I'd curse them with gankage from beyond the grave. And then I'd try and find out which one of the guild members took my stuff.

That's an interesting permadeath mechanic though. In game will generator. You tag things to be left to certain people in the event that you die too many times and get hit with permadeath. Upon dying, you have to go to an office to pick up the dearly departeds belongings. Hm.

Anyway, as for real life funerals - the funeral is very much about the person who died. The "party"/"social gathering"/wake that popped into existance whenever in history for after the funeral is the coping mechanism for the people the departed left behind. Like I said, at my funeral, I want the people remaining to be celebrating MY life. At the party afterwards, I want them drinking and getting crazy because it's what I would have wanted - it's the ultimate coping mechanism.

If people are doing the same thing in a fucking game, re-read paragraph one. I wish gankage upon them. I'm not sure why, but the entire fucking thing seems terribly tacky to me. For most of the folks on f13, if I were to get hit be a meteor or a piece of Jupiter broke off and landed on my house, I'd want nothing more than for people to knock a beer back for me - if they even want to do that. I do Not want them logging into my account into Star Wars Galaxies and throwing a party at an outpost on Yavin 4. And now I realize it - online games, in the big scheme of things - mean nothing to me. I can toss them aside. They are unimportant. The moment I see folks taking them this seriously I can't help but feel sorry for them. But since I don't really do empathy well, I can only look at the raiding party, and then back at the funeral party and say "zing. predictable."

[Tebonas]

Fair point. On the other hand, as evil as that sounds. I'd rather have those people on my MMORPG-funeral than at my RL one. I really wouldn't now how my dear mother would react to some sob story of how I was the best healer evar and bestest friend because I helped camp some shit. But I know after my father was done with them they would need a few more graves...

[Ironwood]

Anyway, as for real life funerals - the funeral is very much about the person who died. The "party"/"social gathering"/wake that popped into existance whenever in history for after the funeral is the coping mechanism for the people the departed left behind. Like I said, at my funeral, I want the people remaining to be celebrating MY life. At the party afterwards, I want them drinking and getting crazy because it's what I would have wanted - it's the ultimate coping mechanism.

You're not right.  The last thing the funeral is about is about the person who died.

Oh, and you can sleep well knowing that at your Funeral, people really actually won't give much of a toss about your wants.  Because they just fucking planted you.

I'm planning my Funeral around that basis.  I want Someone, Anyone, to give my wife a quick one behind the church organ.  Because life goes on.

Queue forms to the left.

[schild]

Fair point. On the other hand, as evil as that sounds. I'd rather have those people on my MMORPG-funeral than at my RL one. I really wouldn't now how my dear mother would react to some sob story of how I was the best healer evar and bestest friend because I helped camp some shit. But I know after my father was done with them they would need a few more graves...

To be fair, if I don't outlive my parents, they're going to hear things a lot more boring than that.

You're not right. The last thing the funeral is about is about the person who died.

Oh, and you can sleep well knowing that at your Funeral, people really actually won't give much of a toss about your wants. Because they just fucking planted you.

I'm planning my Funeral around that basis. I want Someone, Anyone, to give my wife a quick one behind the church organ. Because life goes on.

Queue forms to the left.

Ever met a Jew, chief? Our funerals are very much about the person who died. Like I said above, the shit afterwards is about the people. Whether I agree or disagree is irrelavant. Odds are the people who plan my funeral will plan it that way. But hey, if you want someone banging your wife while the priest or whoever says their thing, that's cool with me.

You have to realize, I don't give a shit what goes on at my funeral, I'm 24. People my age don't think about stuff like that. The only perspective we have in a conversation like this is from experience. And my experiences show me 3 4 5 things: don't have a funeral in a contested zone, don't steal the loots after people are buried, never get involved in a land war in Asia, never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line, and nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

You're an angry bastard, Ironwood, but if I'm ever in errrr uhhh, ok, that's not likely. If you're ever in Phoenix or somewhere reasonably close, I need to buy you a beer. I'll even let you tell me those stories about 'nam.

[Ironwood]

I hear what you're saying (and yes, I'm all about the friends of Jews) but you're still not right.

We can dress it up as much as we want, but a Funeral is not about the guy in the ground.  It's about the guys standing around wondering where their friend went.

If it was about the guy in the ground, we wouldn't care.

Incidentally, I am in fine mood today and not angry at all.  I don't think I've come across well in any post I've ever written ever.

I don't care about this in game thing, because they're all idiots.  I am naturally cynical about anyone having a tragedy in a game because I usually am the first person to ask 'and where do you want my gold donations to go ?  Oh, right, fuck off.'  There's too much made up shit on the net for me to take anyone seriously.

However, I have now been to many Funerals, 4 of which were under tragic, tragic personal circumstances* and it's NEVER been about the guy in the ground no matter how much it gets dressed up.  Sure, we all miss them and remember them, but HE doesn't care.  About anything.  Ever again.

Not arguing, not fighting, not caring, btw.  It's just one of those facts of life thingies for me.


* 1 - Niece Died during CB
   2 - Best friend just dropped at 35 leaving a pregnant wife and 7 daughter.  This happens in Scotland A LOT.
   3 - Father in Law succumbed to Chronic depression and hung himself.  It's a disease, don't let anyone tell you different.
   4 - Grandfather passed away.  While this was the most normal, he went like a child, mindless and ravaged by Alzhiemers.

[jason]

I just watched this yesterday, and while I realize that people got their feelings hurt and that some people are dicks, I also realize as has been pointed out many times that holding a funeral in an open PvP zone wasn't exactly the smartest thing to do.  Had I been a friend/guildmate of the deceased or other attendee of the funeral, I'd be pissed.  As it is, I found watching the video to be funny.

Mel Brooks said it best... "Tragedy is when I cut my finger.  Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die."

[Roac]

You are aware that a RL funeral is not for the dear departed but for the people he leaves behind?

You're not right. The last thing the funeral is about is about the person who died.

Ever met a Jew, chief? Our funerals are very much about the person who died.

Funerals are about the person who died, but are for the people who remain alive.

[HaemishM]

If one day my lovely wife had to come on this board and tell all you fuckers that I'd died, I would hope you would remain respectful. I'd hope the cockknobs that I did not get on with in Internet life like SirBruce or Telemediocrity would at the very least have enough respect for my thoughts on the Internet as they would have of my cold, lifeless body in the ground. I'd hope they would respect what accomplishments I have made, and would respect me as an intellectual enemy who always gave them a good fight.

And if for no other goddamn, fucking reason than that my wife and friend would be fucking distraught and would not want any more fucking grief added to her misery.

See, funerals may not be FOR me, but they ARE for my survivors. Which in the case of this board, or whatever MMOG guild I was in, would be people online who I may not have met in the flesh. And I would hope at the very least people like Wayabvpar and Signe and Ironwood would be a little bit sad at my passing, if for no other reason than they would miss me calling someone a crotchpheasant.

We are who we meet. We are the bonds and relationships and antagonisms and cockups of all the other people we've interacted with on this planet. And whether there is or is not an afterlife, or whether the shell we stick in the cold, cold ground is the final end or not, we'll never be that particular person again. EVER. The memories of our descendents are all that will ever be of that person again. And pissing on that memory just for the giggles, that's subhuman, no matter what venue it's in.

When you are young and don't have anyone depending on you, it's easy to dismiss that. When you have to think about the people who will be left behind, it should never be that easy a thing to dismiss.

Yeah, as has been said before, holding the funeral in an ostensible war zone was stupid. But no matter how stupid it was, disrupting it knowingly? That was just wrong.

[Ironwood]

Which is all fine until we find out that your 'wife' PopTart is actually you just posting that you've died so that 'she' can siphon money into a paypal account 'to help with the funeral' in barbadoes.

:)

[Arthur_Parker]

Warning timeslip

[HaemishM]

Which is all fine until we find out that your 'wife' PopTart is actually you just posting that you've died so that 'she' can siphon money into a paypal account 'to help with the funeral' in barbadoes.

:)

Damn, you've tipped to my cunning plan! CURSES!

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

Interesting Link Mr. Parker

One line of it:

Richard Garriot, the creator of Ultima Online, was once visited by a naked fan who pulled out a gun and took a shot at him.

[WayAbvPar]

Must have been a Blackthorn fan.

[Tebonas]

I don't even know where he pulled that gun out if he was naked.

[schild]

I know where it was. But I'm not telling. Let's just say that it was in a PvP+ zone.

[Ironwood]

Giggle.

[Anoq]

Warning timeslip

Things like that are funny, until you someone you've seen in-game fakes their real death.

Then its extremely funny.

[WindupAtheist]

This, at least, was the story according to Sheyla's friend "Kinudin," who posted the tragic news to the popular "Lum the Mad" Everquest fan site.

I remember the days of Lum the Mad, that popular Everquest fan site.  Those were good times.

[Arthur_Parker]

I remember the thread, full of poetry and song lyrics.

[Pococurante]

Queue forms to the left.

Any Scotsman that spells "queue" correctly deserves respect.