Will DDO survive the April attrition as free months expire?

[voblat]

The best most of us can hope for is that it is dressed up in fun systems so those of us not completely motivated by these things have some reason to play, too.

Why set your expectations that low?

As opposed to your wondeful idiom?

Where someone spends 2 hours levelling a toon, gets a little cash and one new weapon, and logs in the next day to find they lost that weapon and have to start from scratch, because, after all, persistance isnt important.

[Yegolev]

Only chumps pay for porn.

Stay in school.

[sigil]

I am owned by Yegolev's response time.

[Telemediocrity]

Where someone spends 2 hours levelling a toon, gets a little cash and one new weapon, and logs in the next day to find they lost that weapon and have to start from scratch, because, after all, persistance isnt important.

The problem is, you're making the primary measure of what you do in the game the same metrics you'd use for measuring a job - how much money did you earn, what skills did you learn, what were your concrete, resume-suitable accomplishments?

If the player is treating this as a job, and not as a game, there's no hope for them.  I felt bad for Lum when I read on his website about how he was grumbling to Lum's Other Half about going through Molten Core "again" (emphasis his)...  why on earth someone would willingly want to come home from their job and log into another one that's unpaid is beyond me.

If you're playing to have fun, and XP/loot are not used as a cockblock to fun, why does it matter what you did or didn't gain during the session?

When you log off of CounterStrike, which do you feel good about - all the fun you had playing the game, or the fact that you got enough cash to afford a Para?

[Lantyssa]

Why set your expectations that low?

Every MMO I have ever played?

[voblat]

Where someone spends 2 hours levelling a toon, gets a little cash and one new weapon, and logs in the next day to find they lost that weapon and have to start from scratch, because, after all, persistance isnt important.

The problem is, you're making the primary measure of what you do in the game the same metrics you'd use for measuring a job - how much money did you earn, what skills did you learn, what were your concrete, resume-suitable accomplishments?

If the player is treating this as a job, and not as a game, there's no hope for them.  I felt bad for Lum when I read on his website about how he was grumbling to Lum's Other Half about going through Molten Core "again" (emphasis his)...  why on earth someone would willingly want to come home from their job and log into another one that's unpaid is beyond me.

If you're playing to have fun, and XP/loot are not used as a cockblock to fun, why does it matter what you did or didn't gain during the session?

When you log off of CounterStrike, which do you feel good about - all the fun you had playing the game, or the fact that you got enough cash to afford a Para?

cash/xp isnt a measure to fun.
To use your 'cockblock' phrase, never getting out of a newbie area because you have to restart the whole game every day as it isnt persistant would be the biggest 'cockblock' ever invented.

[Telemediocrity]

Why should you start in the newbie area every time?  Why not have some choices for where you start?

GW let you start in either the newbie area or the level 20 PvP area, and the world didn't implode.  Why not expand upon that mechanic?

[voblat]

Why should you start in the newbie area every time?  Why not have some choices for where you start?

GW let you start in either the newbie area or the level 20 PvP area, and the world didn't implode.  Why not expand upon that mechanic?

Because whatever you do, it will involve redoing it endlessly.

Also in both this and the other thread, all examples you give as shining examples of how non persistant worlds are so good have one thing in common, and also one thing that exempts them from comparison to MMO games.

They have no monthly fee.

If you are saying all MMO's should be like DW , then , as it becomes obvious in most of your comments, you do not play or understand MMO's and you entirely miss the enitire point of them completely.

If you are suggesting a mainstream MMO with character development and a monthly fee can somehow manifest ina non persistant world there are 2 things.

1 Why would the devs make life so hard for themselves
2 Who in the world would pay for it.

[Broughden]

-In closing DDO sucks, it will not see new year's day 2008, Hoax has spoken.


P.S.  Bored bored bored, I'd almost be happy to hear from some ghetto housing subsidy tenant in Oakland right about now.

2008??? LMAO DDO wont live to the end of this year. I'd put money on it.

[schild]

-In closing DDO sucks, it will not see new year's day 2008, Hoax has spoken.


P.S.  Bored bored bored, I'd almost be happy to hear from some ghetto housing subsidy tenant in Oakland right about now.

2008??? LMAO DDO wont live to the end of this year. I'd put money on it.

I don't know if you're trying to be funny, but that's not a good bet to there, kemosabe.

/didn'tmeantorhyme

/apologiestoeveryone

/sometimesiamazeevenmyself

[Malathor]

-In closing DDO sucks, it will not see new year's day 2008, Hoax has spoken.

Goddammit. I knew someone was going to try to muscle in on my status as Official DDO Doomcaster! Away Pretender! Away!

[slog]

I think you guys completely miss the point.

DDO isn't supposed to be WoW. 

It's supposed the be a game developed on a relatively low budget, targetted to get 100k subs at release (which they more than did) and get a 3 to 5 month average sub.

Anything over that is gravy.  It's simply a different model, and you guys are all freaking out that you can't play it for 20 hours a week for 2 years. 

[Broughden]

Stop using turbine as a gold standard, and you might understand.

On this, we'll agree to disagree.  AC2 aside, I think Turbine is the gold standard for how to get things in MMOs really, really right. 

Turbine is the gold standard for MMO gaming companies? ARE YOU ON FUCKING CRACK!?!?!?!

Third party apps were overall an improvement to the game - more companies should lean more toward Turbine's policy than the silly prohibitiveness of EQ or DAoC. It adds a nice metagame layer to the action, and it drove the people who cry about everything being "unfair" out of the game, which was nice to not have to listen to. But again, this thread isn't really about AC.

Turbine's policy? Have you not seen the bazillion player created mods, UIs and add ons made for WOW?
Either you are certifiable or you must work for Turbine and are posting this as a big joke???

[schild]

It's really not a different model. It's just less than a full game. No one ever said it was supposed to be WoW. Everyone said it was supposed to be fun and engaging. There isn't enough stuff to be fun and engaging.

[Broughden]

-In closing DDO sucks, it will not see new year's day 2008, Hoax has spoken.


P.S.  Bored bored bored, I'd almost be happy to hear from some ghetto housing subsidy tenant in Oakland right about now.

2008??? LMAO DDO wont live to the end of this year. I'd put money on it.

I don't know if you're trying to be funny, but that's not a good bet to there, kemosabe.

/didn'tmeantorhyme

/apologiestoeveryone

/sometimesiamazeevenmyself

I feel based on sales which dove faster than a WW2 kamikazi diver its a VERY safe bet. Some one start a death pool!
Hell my local EB store is shipping 16 of the 20 copies of DDO they ordered back to the warehouse this week.

[Broughden]

I think you guys completely miss the point.

DDO isn't supposed to be WoW. 

It's supposed the be a game developed on a relatively low budget, targetted to get 100k subs at release (which they more than did) and get a 3 to 5 month average sub.

Anything over that is gravy.  It's simply a different model, and you guys are all freaking out that you can't play it for 20 hours a week for 2 years. 

Once again another delusional fanboi. 100k subs? They didnt even sell 100k games! Present professional market projections for March put them at some where in the neighborhood of 50k.

And that 50k? Was NOT to end users but to stores such as BestBuy or EB Games, so how many of those got returned unsold?

[slog]

It's really not a different model. It's just less than a full game. No one ever said it was supposed to be WoW. Everyone said it was supposed to be fun and engaging. There isn't enough stuff to be fun and engaging.

I stopped counting the appearances of "WoW" in this thread at 75.  I

There is easily 150 hours of content.  That's 15 weeks at 10 hours per week. 

Do I like the  game?  No, I don't.  I don't find PvE MMOGs remotely interesting.  Does that invalidate that DDO is a success?  Nope.  Turbine more than reached their target.  I think many people's biggest problem with DDO is that they are not the primary market for DDO. 

[slog]

I think you guys completely miss the point.

DDO isn't supposed to be WoW. 

It's supposed the be a game developed on a relatively low budget, targetted to get 100k subs at release (which they more than did) and get a 3 to 5 month average sub.

Anything over that is gravy.  It's simply a different model, and you guys are all freaking out that you can't play it for 20 hours a week for 2 years. 

Once again another delusional fanboi. 100k subs? They didnt even sell 100k games! Present professional market projections for March put them at some where in the neighborhood of 50k.

And that 50k? Was NOT to end users but to stores such as BestBuy or EB Games, so how many of those got returned unsold?

Yes they did. Edit (not subs, sales)

[Broughden]

It's really not a different model. It's just less than a full game. No one ever said it was supposed to be WoW. Everyone said it was supposed to be fun and engaging. There isn't enough stuff to be fun and engaging.

I stopped counting the appearances of "WoW" in this thread at 75.  I

There is easily 150 hours of content.  That's 15 weeks at 10 hours per week. 

Do I like the  game?  No, I don't.  I don't find PvE MMOGs remotely interesting.  Does that invalidate that DDO is a success?  Nope.  Turbine more than reached their target.  I think many people's biggest problem with DDO is that they are not the primary market for DDO. 

You have no way of knowing if they reached their projected or forecasted sales figures or not....unless you work for them.
Additionally and perhaps surprisngly the idiots at Turbine admitted in an interview that their target customers were NOT old school D&D fans of 30+ years of age with disposable income....but the 20-25 year old crowd. ie traditional MMO players.

The idiots at Turbine couldnt even get the right market.

[Broughden]

I think you guys completely miss the point.

DDO isn't supposed to be WoW. 

It's supposed the be a game developed on a relatively low budget, targetted to get 100k subs at release (which they more than did) and get a 3 to 5 month average sub.

Anything over that is gravy.  It's simply a different model, and you guys are all freaking out that you can't play it for 20 hours a week for 2 years. 

Once again another delusional fanboi. 100k subs? They didnt even sell 100k games! Present professional market projections for March put them at some where in the neighborhood of 50k.

And that 50k? Was NOT to end users but to stores such as BestBuy or EB Games, so how many of those got returned unsold?

Yes they did. Edit (not subs, sales)

Uhm no they didnt. Not according to any market reports Ive read for March. If you are so sure you're right please post a link otherwise STFU.

[slog]

heh.

The groupthink in this board is interersting.I get called a Fanboi even though I hate the game.

[Broughden]

heh.

The groupthink in this board is interersting.I get called a Fanboi even though I hate the game.

Way to dodge the challenge....once again....POST A LINK or STFU!

[slog]

[23:02] <dm^O_o> strange
[23:02] <spongslog> DM sales good for DDO?
[23:03] <spongslog> did you hit your 100k?
[23:03] <dm^O_o> yeah, np
[23:03] <dm^O_o> the doom and gloomers are pretty far off mark atm

[Shockeye]

[23:02] <dm^O_o> strange
[23:02] <spongslog> DM sales good for DDO?
[23:03] <spongslog> did you hit your 100k?
[23:03] <dm^O_o> yeah, np
[23:03] <dm^O_o> the doom and gloomers are pretty far off mark atm

That counts as proof? That's pretty sad.

[slog]

I didn't know there were rules of evidence.

What do you have?

[Broughden]

[23:02] <dm^O_o> strange
[23:02] <spongslog> DM sales good for DDO?
[23:03] <spongslog> did you hit your 100k?
[23:03] <dm^O_o> No, and now I will take my own life with a dull spoon
[23:03] <dm^O_o>  {sounds of dull spoon trying to cut threw a neck} Banzai!!!!!

That counts as proof? That's pretty sad.

Sad aint the word for that attempt. It was like watching a pole vaulter in the special olympics. "Me special" {splat!}

[slog]

I think you banned the wrong troll Schild.

[Broughden]

And I think you still havent posted a link....now run along. Maybe mommy will tie a steak around your neck so the dog will play with you.

[schild]

I think you banned the wrong troll Schild.

I wish I could argue with that. This fucker walks in like he owns the place.

[Broughden]

I think you banned the wrong troll Schild.

I wish I could argue with that. This fucker walks in like he owns the place.

:-D Well I always figure its best to make a big entrance. Plus I dont tolerate trolls, or idiots who cant back up their arguments well. Old habits from my long ago days on the Genmay forums.
Is that wrong of me?

[WindupAtheist]

I know it's poor form to run around blurting out "THAT'S NOT HOW THEY DO IT OVER THERE!"  Nevertheless, I feel compelled to point out that on my other forum, making objective claims without verifiable evidence is bannable if you don't retract when challenged.  Sure it sounds uptight, but just think of how quickly Bruce's little chart would have had him run off under such rules.

[slog]

I know it's poor form to run around blurting out "THAT'S NOT HOW THEY DO IT OVER THERE!"  Nevertheless, I feel compelled to point out that on my other forum, making objective claims without verifiable evidence is bannable if you don't retract when challenged.  Sure it sounds uptight, but just think of how quickly Bruce's little chart would have had him run off under such rules.

um, ok?

I still waiting for someone to post a link that contridicts what I said.

[Broughden]

I know it's poor form to run around blurting out "THAT'S NOT HOW THEY DO IT OVER THERE!"  Nevertheless, I feel compelled to point out that on my other forum, making objective claims without verifiable evidence is bannable if you don't retract when challenged.  Sure it sounds uptight, but just think of how quickly Bruce's little chart would have had him run off under such rules.

um, ok?

I still waiting for someone to post a link that contridicts what I said.

YOU are the one who made the claim.
Now myself, another poster and even an ADMIN have challenged your claim of over 100k units sold. You STILL have not posted proof.

Therefore you are NOTHING more than a useless moronic slobbering troll.
Once again...watching you post is like watching a pole vaulter in the special olympics. "Me special!" {splat!}

[slog]

Once again another delusional fanboi. 100k subs? They didnt even sell 100k games! Present professional market projections for March put them at some where in the neighborhood of 50k.

And that 50k? Was NOT to end users but to stores such as BestBuy or EB Games, so how many of those got returned unsold?

[Khaldun]

I don't see persistence as being the big selling point of MMOs.

You misunderstand. It's not the "selling point".

It's the defining characteristic. Like, "A skyscraper is a tall building" or "A steak is from a cow". It's not up for you to "see it" or "not see it".

If persistence isn't a key part of the definition of a MMO, then Unreal Tournament is an MMO. Any game with any multiplayer component is an MMO. Which means we should stop talking about the category, because you're just talking about "multiplayer games" of any kind. Which is a different discussion.

Otherwise, tell me what makes an MMO something different than any other kind of multiplayer computer or video game.