die, dell, die.

[Kenrick]

Sorry if this has already been posted... I didn't see it in the hardware forum or useless news...

http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2006/03/22/alienware-dell-game_cx_de_0322dell.html

I really, really hate Dell... for many, many reasons which I will not list in this post.  Now I have one more reason to hate them.

[Trippy]

They are apparently going to take a hands off approach, for now. Which means all they are really doing is sucking all the profits out of Alienware (which are only going to go up thanks to Dell's purchasing power) to prop up their bottom line. So the founders and any investors in Alienware get rich and...that's about it.

[schild]

You should hate Alienware more Kenrick. Overinflated trash.

[Toast]

Dell's a $60B revenue company, and Alienware is $225M. To put that in perspective, Dell sells Alienware's entire year in about a day and a half. This isn't a grab at growth. It has to be strategic, given that Alienware is so tiny compared to Dell's runrate business.

The acquisition was made to gain expertise and credibility in the high end consumer space. It is key that Alienware has extensive experience with AMD processors. Dell is going to port over that knowledge as it ramps into AMD products.

It wil be interesting to see what happens with the XPS and the Alienware brands.

Show me on the doll where Dell touched you, Kenrick.

[Sairon]

The only thing I dislike about Dell is that they make really crappy commercials.

[schild]

The only thing I dislike about Dell is that they make really crappy commercials.

That's because all their real money goes into computers. If I was paid to come up with a Dell commercial, it would have that cable guy fucker (the "standup" guy) come on the screen and go "Delllllllllllllllllllll" and then walk away. Joe Sixpack is the only person left to reach on TV. Dell makes buying a GOOD computer easy and cheaper than you can get in stores (with good support no less). Something America desperately needed.

[Surlyboi]

You've obviously never had to deal with a corporate support setup from Dell, Schild.

Two words. "Teh" and "Suq".

I'll freely admit their monitors kick ass, but "good computers"? Not if you're buying a goddamn desktop from them.

[Ironwood]

I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.  I've been on Dell for over 5 years now and I have not had one major problem with their support.

Not One.

Hell, I even got a free server once for just being me.

Is it a UK thing ?

[Surlyboi]

I'm talking getting one out of every 10 boxes on average showing up with some serious defects and then having to either send them back or troubleshoot random airflow problems.

Granted, this was six years ago with a bunch of Optiplexes, but it was enough of a pain in the ass to sour me on most of their shit 'til they started kicking everyone's ass in the flatpanel space.

[schild]

SIX YEARS AGO?

Ok, time to get over it, hoss. Shit, before I went to college I would've told people to get a goddamn Apple. Now I sure as shit wouldn't. But because of some Optiplex problems? 1 out of 10? You think HP would have been better? Comeon now. AFAIK the only other real option in the corporate space is IBM. Personally, I hate everything about IBM's design mentality. But the newer Dells, going back about 3 years or so, are the shit. Dude, you're getting a Dell wasn't just a catchy slogan.

[Merusk]

1/10 is a pretty low rate of problems, from what I've heard from folks in IT at the various companies I work at.  Hell, it's fucking stellar compared to the HP problems we had when I worked at my last employer.

I'll agree on the 'Alienware is overpriced' shtick, but Dell's been pretty good on the products I've bought from them.  (3pcs, a handheld and a laptop.)  Only had one problem, and that was a DVD drive that wasn't being recognized on the wife's machine, fixed without a problem via tech support.

Of course, I have heard /bad/ stories.  Oddly, though, they've all been from folks whose understanding of technology & computers was limited.  The language barrier between themselves and the Dell_India support magnified this and lead them to swear that they'd never buy another Dell.

[Ironwood]

On that note, I barely noticed when they went Dell India.  The difference between understanding some Indian bloke and some Irish bloke was nonexistant to me.

As long as it was fixed then or next day depending, I was happy.

I am Happy.

[Strazos]

If I can help it, I will be building and maintaining my own systems until the day I die.

Fuck retail.

Also, I've seen lots of problems with the Dells used by my University, and not just the kind caused by dumbasses with access to public workstations. I mean problems coming out of the box.

[Miasma]

I don't understand the Dell hate either, before I learned how to build my own I bought Dell and liked them a lot.  We use them at work too for both workstations and servers.  They are nicely built, quiet and very affordable.  I have never had to deal with their service line but I'm sure they are just as good/bad as IBM, HP etc.

Now Alienware I don't particularly like, too much undeserved hype and I don't like their marketing.

[Ironwood]

If I can help it, I will be building and maintaining my own systems until the day I die.

Genius.   I have 1200 users spread across Scotland.  Can you share some tips ?

[Der Helm]

The computers Dell sells here, are a PITA to upgrade, once your system has become outdated.

You basically have to buy upgrades from Dell, which are overpriced or have to do lots of research to find the no-name retail version of one of their suppliers. I once upgraded my graphic card. That was doable.I still have nightmares about the time when I tried to upgrade my RAM. And I never found out why my new hard drive was not recognized by the rest of the hardware.

Your mileage my vary of course ...

[Strazos]

If I can help it, I will be building and maintaining my own systems until the day I die.

Genius.   I have 1200 users spread across Scotland.  Can you share some tips ?

I should have said PCs.

But again, Fuck Retail (for single users).

[HaemishM]

Dell is overpriced for what you get, which makes them fit perfectly with Alienware, since those too are overpriced for what you get. But then, ANY retail, brand name computer is probably overpriced when compared with building it yourself.

But nothing beats NOT having to worry about shit when it breaks. When Poptart's new barebones computer went tits up and the shiteating cockbogglers wouldn't replace or fix it, we bought an HP from Best Buy. That thing has worked quite well, with only a video card upgrade and a recent sound card upgrade because of her Net Radio broadcast needs. We have used Compaqs (which are HP's by other names) for years at work and I've noticed few problems with them.

I think my hatred of Dell comes from the Dell dude.

[Toast]

Everyone seemed to hate the Dell dude. However, a funny thing started happening. Every time one of those commercials came on television, there would be an unprecedented, massive spike in phone calls into the sales queue.

The commercials worked like crazy and helped launch the Home/Small Business business segment from an afterthought to a growth area and a focus.

[Merusk]

The computers Dell sells here, are a PITA to upgrade, once your system has become outdated.

You basically have to buy upgrades from Dell, which are overpriced or have to do lots of research to find the no-name retail version of one of their suppliers. I once upgraded my graphic card. That was doable.I still have nightmares about the time when I tried to upgrade my RAM. And I never found out why my new hard drive was not recognized by the rest of the hardware.

Your mileage my vary of course ...

Upgrading my Vid Card and adding a 2nd hard drive wasn't a problem for me.  Ram, however, I'm fucked on. Mainly because I'd have to swap out the MoBo to change RAM types, and at that point I may as well buy a new machine.

 

But nothing beats NOT having to worry about shit when it breaks. When Poptart's new barebones computer went tits up and the shiteating cockbogglers wouldn't replace or fix it, we bought an HP from Best Buy.

This is the sole reason I buy retail.   I'm competent enough to buy and build my own stuff, and troubleshoot/ fix it if there's problems.  I just don't want to mess with it.  I've got 2 kids, a job and a house to maintain.  The extra grand I'm spending (over 4 years, since that's my personal PC cycle.) is worth far more than the hours researching, piecing-together and shipping-back broken shit.  Plus, if something DOES break, I can have some other guy come over to mess with it for me or get a whole new system gratis.   

[Strazos]

Perhaps I just have Really good luck with parts?

Also, I usually buy the warranties on my parts, where applicable. Hell, some of them even have lifetime warranties.

[Riggswolfe]

Having dealt with both Dell and Gateway as the It guy at my job I will take Dell every single time.

At home though, I'm one of those guys who builds my own.

[Toast]

Strazos-
Do you realize that Dell buys parts from suppliers and just assembles them in a Dell-badged case? There's no reason why failure rates on parts that Dell uses would be any different from failure rates on parts that Joe Schmo has ordered.

If you find the right promo and coupons, a Dell can be had for less than building one's own system. Operating systems and such add up for non-pirates.

The downside is that Dell's are not very upgradable. Non-standard mobo mounts and proprietary power supply adapters are an obstacle.

[Kenrick]

Having dealt with both Dell and Gateway as the It guy at my job I will take Dell every single time.

But that's the ONLY time to choose Dell -- when it's a "lesser of two evils" dilemma.

[Sky]

I just want to chirp in some more Dell support love. I've had nothing but good experiences with them, hell, they usually overnight parts to me, even on low priority stuff. Decent prices with solid parts (remember the old days when buying from a big name meant whatever parts were cheapest were included?), solid support. I didn't really notice (from a quality standpoint) the shift to India, either. I can understand them and they understand me, hell they speak better english than I do and they tend to be a lot nicer than americans. And Toast makes an extremely valid point about the OS inclusion...not being a pirate that tacks a lot onto my homebrew systems, but it's bundled with the Dells. Add in the support and I can't compete with them, I tell most people to get a Dell if they need a PC.

I do build my own pcs, though, because I'm picky like that. Might not always be that way, though. Alienware? Overpriced imo, though they seem nice enough.

[Sky]

A question - how many of the anti-Dell folks aren't in IT? Seems the IT folks all appreciate Dell.

[Strazos]

Strazos-
Do you realize that Dell buys parts from suppliers and just assembles them in a Dell-badged case? There's no reason why failure rates on parts that Dell uses would be any different from failure rates on parts that Joe Schmo has ordered.

They may not differ from the parts Joe Schmo would buy, but they differ substantially from the parts I buy, which Probably have lower failure rates than Dell part.

[Rasix]

I love my new Dell.  Best of all, I love that fact that I didn't have to build it myself.  I opened the box, connect the wires, plugged shit in, powered it up and it on the internet in a matter of minutes.  There's no jumper on the MB I forgot to set, there's no fucked up Windows errors from using a pirated version, there's no hardware conflicts I didn't anticipate, and there's no feeling that I fucked something up that will kill the machine 6 months to a year down the road. 

And when I was out pricing gaming machines, Dell was usually 300 bucks cheaper than anyone else for similar parts.  Compared to purchasing the parts myself (including Windows and Office) Dell was perhaps 200-300 dollars more at most. That's worth it for me to have the phone support, excellent return policy (that we've already used, FYI USB wireless networking cards crash WoW and suck in general), and the avoiding what I detailed above.

My first Dell was a rock also.  My parents still use it and I bought it at least 5+ years ago.

[Lantyssa]

We use Dell at work, too.  We have far fewer troubles with them, the support is good when we do, and these systems are not being upgraded like a personal machine so that matters little.  The prices are actually not all that more than a self-built system if you carefully pick your options (moreso with an education discount), so rather than building systems for everyone I know I point them to Dell with tips on what options to choose.

Enthusiasts should still build their own machines, but we would do that under most circumstances because we enjoy doing that.

[Mr_PeaCH]

Seems the IT folks all appreciate Dell.

In.

And not simply a 'lesser of the evils' equation.  No, their telephone support and queues are not perfect but they're a damn sight better than everybody else out there I've dealt with and yes even since the whole offshore to India thing.

Better prices, fewer problems.  A corporation IT department's fucking wet dream.

But yeah, if you like games and customization and such and are just looking for a "one off"  home machine, knock yourself out and build your own.

Sometimes I feel a certain degree of self-loathing for patronizing them but then I remember that Wal-Mart is the real evil and I still hate them so I forgive myself.

[schild]

Dells are pretty much cheaper than anything out there. Including building your own machine. I'd have a Dell if I didn't love Shuttle cases. Unless you are a hopeless penny pincher who wants to play games but doesn't see spending money to play the games in style, yea, MAYBE you could build a comparable machine for a benny or two less than you could get a Dell box for - but then you'd have to pirate Windows and you won't get a free LCD thrown into the deal.

[Yoru]

At home I build my machines from parts, largely because I turn the process into a fun, 2-month cycle of updating my knowledge of current hardware standards, researching all the various components and then finally assembling the beast, with the first boot approaching a religious experience. Also, maybe I'm  just a control freak when it comes to what brands and types of components I want in my machines, but no OEM has ever had the sort of flexibility that I've wanted, save for the obscure hole-in-the-wall Chinese shop I went to back in the mid-90s, before I learned to put the stuff together.

At work, we use primarily Dells since we pay some ludicrous amount of money for their support plan, meaning if something critical breaks, and IT doesn't have the parts on hand, it can be put in the hands of a courier on a motorcycle and be here in a few hours. Or they can overnight-Fedex it if it's not of life-and-death importance. The Dell flatpanels are nice. I want one for home. Only bum job we've gotten on hardware is that my group once got a bunch of Dells with Maxtor drives from a batch that had an extremely high rate of failure; replacing the hard drives wasn't much of an issue and everything's been smooth as butter since.

[Strazos]

I'm still not sold on the whole LCD thing, especially Dell's. I've seen plenty of them in action, and so far they've all paled in comparison to my CRT.

[Lantyssa]

Not being very strong, I much prefer moving LCDs to CRTs.

And no matter what model CRT I see on display, the one I take home is always too dark.  My desktop gamma is around 3 with my current one.  I have not had that problem with the LCDs at work.

[sarius]

I'm talking getting one out of every 10 boxes on average showing up with some serious defects and then having to either send them back or troubleshoot random airflow problems.

Granted, this was six years ago with a bunch of Optiplexes, but it was enough of a pain in the ass to sour me on most of their shit 'til they started kicking everyone's ass in the flatpanel space.

I've had my share of Optiplex problems in our project.  Especially the new DDR2 boxes and their little problem with the NICs blue screening at malformed packets.  Probably more than your 1 in 10 figure.  But, Dell service is incredible.  Literally the tech is here the next day (on average) with parts in hand.  Dell doesn't whine about complete system replacements, either, from my experience.  I'm not a Dell systems cheerleader but their customer service has always been top notch for me.