Making guilds a business

[bhodi]

Other than it being a cringing embarrasment, in all seriousness I think the article has a point - managing a guild is no different than managing people in an office enviornment. It's all herding cats. The fact you're a guild leader shows you know how to do it, and even though I'd never put WoW on my resume', I can see the benefits.

I'd also laugh and toss it in the garbage along with the guy who put the fact he was an eagle scout on his resume. Anyone who's digging that deep for qualifications is probably someone I don't need to waste my time talking to.

[shiznitz]

The big, significant difference is that guild leaders do it all via text chat. Doing it in person is much harder. Example: Dear John letters.

[bhodi]

The big, significant difference is that guild leaders do it all via text chat. Doing it in person is much harder. Example: Dear John letters.

Not if you're a cold hearted bastard and/or don't care about them in a personal one way or another. Business is business.

[Telemediocrity]

The big, significant difference is that guild leaders do it all via text chat. Doing it in person is much harder. Example: Dear John letters.

Not if you're a cold hearted bastard and/or don't care about them in a personal one way or another. Business is business.

There's a gigantic gulf between "don't care about them personally" and "let them know that you don't care about them personally".

If thinking something negative about one of your employees directly translates to their knowing that you're thinking something negative about them, that'd probably make one a shitty manager.

One might consider that to be 'lying', but sucking at lying correlates well with sucking at a whole bunch of other useful interpersonal skills.

[Paelos]

Good managers find ways to put employees in positions to succeed. Guild leaders do the same. Good managers try to find places to utilize problem employees before they write them off. Same with GLs. Where you get the differences are based on the fact that most managers deal with personal situations IN person. The social conventions keep people in line much better than you typing crap into a chat channel or yelling into TS. Being far away from people makes people bigger jerks and lowers inhibitions. That means that most guild leaders have to deal with more mood swings than your average business manager, but that doesn't make them more suited for a managerial job in business.

It makes them better suited for daycare.

[HaemishM]

The big, significant difference is that guild leaders do it all via text chat. Doing it in person is much harder. Example: Dear John letters.

Not if you're a cold hearted bastard and/or don't care about them in a personal one way or another. Business is business.

I think if any managers in RL tried to tell one of their employees to "SACK UP!" like Getcha, they'd get punched. You can't punch someone over Ventrillo yet.

[bhodi]

There's a gigantic gulf between "don't care about them personally" and "let them know that you don't care about them personally".

If thinking something negative about one of your employees directly translates to their knowing that you're thinking something negative about them, that'd probably make one a shitty manager.

One might consider that to be 'lying', but sucking at lying correlates well with sucking at a whole bunch of other useful interpersonal skills.

Somehow you're translating "Not caring about someone personally" into "Hating them". What I meant was that as a manager, or in a management role, you (and your company/guild) succeeds by doing what's best for the company. Their personality is just another variable to be put alongside their skills and balanced with everything else. My point was "Dear John" letters should never come up in either business or guild (and we're arguing they are one in the same) relations. Because it's all business, personal likes and/or dislikes of someone are generally a minor consideration point unless it impacts the greater whole (a generally disliked character in a leadership role, for example.)

Generally, most people aren't offended when you tell them that they are a nice guy, and you like them personally, but they're being downsizsed (or, in the recent example, can't perform well enough in the uberguild as a rogue to stay in.) It doesn't require lying at all, and you definately don't have to hate the person first.

Edit to Haem: That line's a classic example of a TERRIBLE manager, guild or otherwise. Unfortunately, online games still lack that self-correcting feature of real life; I highly doubt that guy would ever be in a position to manage anyone.

Another Edit (yay): I was being slightly sarcastic and glib in my comment; people who feel personal relations are more important than the functioning whole tend to think of people who make hard descisons like RIFs as cold hearted bastards who don't care about anyone.

[shiznitz]

You are debating management styles with yourself. There are plenty of successful companies and gaming guilds where the priority is providing a hospitable environment within which to work/play. The goal of business is business, sure. But business is not the only place where management skill is needed, e.g. schools, government, and not-for-profits. Patagonia is a good example of a for-profit business that does not put profits first.

On the guild level, it all depends on what the guild's goals are. My guild crosses many different games. Our goal is to provide a friendly community within which to talk about games and anything else. Our guild requires almost no management because there are no structured goals other than to have fun together.

[bhodi]

You are debating management styles with yourself. There are plenty of successful companies and gaming guilds where the priority is providing a hospitable environment within which to work/play. The goal of business is business, sure. But business is not the only place where management skill is needed, e.g. schools, government, and not-for-profits. Patagonia is a good example of a for-profit business that does not put profits first.

On the guild level, it all depends on what the guild's goals are. My guild crosses many different games. Our goal is to provide a friendly community within which to talk about games and anything else. Our guild requires almost no management because there are no structured goals other than to have fun together.

Very true. Different management styles are needed for different goals. If we are talking about guilds as a business, however, the general goal is going to be impersonal (gold, items, advancement.) That is when you need the impersonal management style that I'm speaking of.