Grimwell.com is back

[Triforcer]

Yay!  Because at least one site in the Diaspora has to be an outlet for those days when we aren't bile-filled anger-mongering cynics...

www.grimwell.com

[schild]

1. I don't need backhanded compliments insults on zee birthday weekend.
2. I'm SHOCKED Gamergod didn't work out. Truly.
3. You know what you did wrong, it's why you put it in useless news.
4. Denned.

Edit: To elaborate on #1. If you think the problem is the bile-filled anger-mongering, how about you stop being a bile-filled political trolling anger-mongering cockholster and contribute in a positive fashion. The difference between Grimwell and us isn't the anger, it's the fact they would have enjoyed 70 pages of Star Wars back and forth about the exact same design issues while we think it's INSANE.

Edit 2: Scratch that, no reason to den this. Grimwell is back, he found out the harsh realities of a gaming journalist on someone else's payroll selling out to a website that was possibly in all likelyhood less popular than his own blog. Despite his frontpage post not saying EVERYTHING (he knows it, I know it, it's not like it takes a detective to figure it out). Then there's also the fact Gamergod was never about the games. It was about the money. Hiring legit people was buying credibility in the eyes of Gamergod. Unfortunately it makes everyone involved worse off. It's a small industry, I've said it before, and it's certainly not a clean one. There's more dirty journalists in the gaming rag industry than there are dirty cops in New York (hell, all of America).

[Cheddar]

Wait, are you saying that most New York police officers are corrupt? 

[schild]

I'm just saying there's a lot of cops in New York. Exponentially more cops than there are actual gaming journalists at least.

[RhyssaFireheart]

And until you know the facts, everything you posted is sheer speculation, Schild.

But you others won't ever know all the facts, so speculate away.

Oh, and about #1, it's about the atmosphere and culture of the board and it's posters.  Whether or not F13 thinks long back-and-forth conversations about game design is insane or not, it's about how newcomers to the boards are treated.  Or how someone who doesn't fall into the right posting style is treated and responded to.  There isn't a "welcoming" feeling to new posters unless they just slide in under the radar after lurking for ages.  For example, look at how anyone who dares to post a "Hi! I'm new here" thread is treated, unless you're Signe and doing it as an "inside joke" sort of thing.  There are almost too many inside jokes going on, and yes, vitriol is spilled most of the time.

[Llava]

I can agree that F13 has some of its own rules of etiquette, and some of its own... let's call it "insider vernacular".  Those are bars to entry, sure.

But I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED that you would call us unfriendly.  Okay, not THAT shocked, but I haven't watched anyone being outright rude/mean to new posters without reason.  Yeah, if you walk in here for the first time and make a post in Game Design/Development titled "I have an idea for a great MMOG!" and the body of the post is something to the effect of "Okay, I don't know how to program or draw anything, and I don't know anyone who does, but I have a really good idea and here it is and don't you think I should be able to walk up to Raph Koster and scream it in his face and have him crumple before me into a weeping mass of unrivaled joy at the genius of my idea?" we're gonna make fun.  On most places on Earth, you'll find yourself the butt of many jokes for naivety that brutal.  Just like people will laugh at you if you say you're going to be a rock star because you can play the first 10-15 seconds of Stairway To Heaven really, really well.  Except that the above example hasn't become the cliche the rock star thing has, because our medium isn't as mainstream as rock... yet.

But I'm fairly certain that there was a non-sarcastic "I'm new" post recently (like... in the past several months recently) that stayed fairly vitriol-free.

But I don't get the "I'm new" posts anyways.  I just started posting after I registered.  Posting an "I'm new" thread is like demanding that they bring the conversation to you, because you can't be bothered to have anything to say about anything already being discussed.  But hey, to each their own.

(Though I'll admit that we were rude to loank.  I mean, he unlock 100 skills.  That deserves respect.)

[Triforcer]

   I wasn't criticizing you or this site.  As you said, often I AM a bile-filled troll.  And so are most of the people here.  And most days I enjoy that.  But on some very few days all of us do not enjoy doing that, and its just nice to talk about games in a slightly different atmosphere.  I can't believe that after all this time you're still so touchy- just because someone doesn't want to eat at your restaurant 7 days a week is in no way a knock on what you do.  I like this site but I also like Grimwell.  

[Velorath]

No opinion on Grimwell one way or the other really except to say that problems in gaming journalism are already well known and documented at this point, so this was a bit of a weak start for any sort of a come back.

[Shockeye]

I guess this means I should start taking this site seriously again.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Llava, I'll grant you the idiocy of the "I'm new" posts.  They are more than a bit useless, but just because someone makes one doesn't mean they should be jump all over and spazzed on.  I didn't mean to imply that F13 was unfriendly, just more like trying to work your way into a special club.  If you haven't read for a while, or are very careful and generic in your posts, you'll drag down the wrath of the posters and mods on you without realizing what you did wrong.

It's an attitude, hard to explain, but like Triforcer said, there are times when I feel like being an utter and total bitch when I reply to something, and if I do, chances are I'd post here.  I wouldn't post anything completely swear word laden on GO, or even at GamerGod for that matter.  It's the ability to read message boards without having to worry about seeing one sentance replies that involve the word "cumguzzlingcockmuncher" in them.  Or anywhere for that matter.  I'm not adverse to swearing, I do my own fair share of it, but it's not condusive to reasoned and well-thought out discussions.

I'm not sure I can explain it any better than that, since it's not exactly a very tanglible thing that I'm trying to explain.  If I didn't like F13 in some way, shape or form, I wouldn't read or (admittedly rarely) post here.

[Shockeye]

I'm not adverse to swearing, I do my own fair share of it, but it's not condusive to reasoned and well-thought out discussions.

That might be well and good in theory, but in practice there are very very few reasoned and well thought-out discussions. Even less so when it comes to games.

[schild]

Here's the problem with reasoned and well-thought out discussions on MMOGs. They've all been done. There's nothing new to say. Not until developers take our feedback and fuck up in exciting, new ways. Until then, it's a big circle jerk. It's the reason I have so much trouble reading TN. The only person who ever presents me with new stuff, is Lum, with stuff like the Learn from Lei Fang game. But even then, it's in China and couldn't reasonably exist in the US. So "Discussing" it is a bit of a stretch since it would all be flowery smelling bullshit. It's reasonable that Grimwell is back, there's a place for Grimwell, particularly since Terra Nova doesn't have any forums to speak of. Rhyssa, you can insult us in any way you want, it won't bother me. Because I know, in reality, instead of kicking around the same topics ad nauseum, we demand the new. While at the same time, Grim and Co. were always content with discussing the old. At the end of the day, that just makes us a completely different breed of board.

[Rasix]

I'm uncomfortable reading a site that doesn't laugh Geldon straight the hell off their boards.  There's a time and place for all lines of thought, some just require a nifty jacket and padded walls.

[Signe]

If I made in "inside" joke, I wasn't in on it.  It was just my way of mocking the postcount malfunction.  As for the whole Grimwell v F13 thing... I didn't even know there was a "thing."  There might be some "inside" stuff but that sort of thing happens when a group of people have been hanging out together for a long time.  There are insider things that go beyond F13, too... back before WTO... that I don't even get. 

Personally, I don't mind Grimwell.com or introductory posts.  I still remember Schild's, fondly.   I thought Grimwell.com was, except for the 'nice" rule,  pretty much like F13.  The times I popped in to read something, it was mostly populated by names I know.  DarkDryad, Arcadian, Jon Carver, Sky, Darniaq, CmdrSlack....

PS  I  Geldon.  He's a sweet boy!

[schild]

And until you know the facts, everything you posted is sheer speculation, Schild.

Forgot to comment on this earlier. Having met the guy in charge of Gamergod, I have to tell you - you're wrong. This isn't exactly the most complicated mystery to figure out.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Whatever, Schild.  I wasn't trying to insult F13 at all.  If I didn't like reading here, then I wouldn't be here, end of story.

As for F13 "demanding the new" while GO is content to "discuss the old" is pretty damn funny, IMO.  But as I said, whatever.  There is no arguing with you, or even debating a point, because you always know right apparently.

Also, good for you on getting to meet Zeus in person.  At least you never had to listen to him in an online meeting.  So I r teh luser!

[Paelos]

I'll just go out there and ask where did Grimwell.com touch us? I can't ever remember visiting the site, nor do I care to.

[schild]

Also, good for you on getting to meet Zeus in person. At least you never had to listen to him in an online meeting. So I r teh luser!

I had to sit around and be a gracious attendee at the dinner he had with Unknown Player, David Bowman, Marc L from Wish, and a whole rogue's gallery of developers. And after he got drunk I had to hear him vomit the wonderful amounts of money gamergod got and how it was going to be...well, whatever. Point being, It's not a surprise that Gamergod didn't work out. Grimwell is better than that.

[NiX]

There are insider things that go beyond F13, too... back before WTO... that I don't even get. 

On that note, I'm surprised the first post for this wasn't "Grimwell.com is back, movie at 11." I remember when that was on LtM and it caused like 10 pages of shit flinging. And when GBob made that "If saying all this means fuck you, then yes that's what I'm saying" post when he was working for NetDevil (right?) Oh nostalgia how I love you.

WHAMADOODLES!

[Ironwood]

I didn't mean to imply that F13 was unfriendly, just more like trying to work your way into a special club. 

Actually, it's more like a very special school.

[Tebonas]

Just like fish. Very special fish. Piranhalike.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Actually, it's more like a very special school.

Does that mean I can ride the special bus now?  Does it, huh?  Please!

[RhyssaFireheart]

I had to sit around and be a gracious attendee at the dinner he had with Unknown Player, David Bowman, Marc L from Wish, and a whole rogue's gallery of developers. And after he got drunk I had to hear him vomit the wonderful amounts of money gamergod got and how it was going to be...well, whatever. Point being, It's not a surprise that Gamergod didn't work out. Grimwell is better than that.

Ah, then we both lost.  He was bad enough over Vent, can't imagine the pain in person.

[El Gallo]

What all the diaspora sites need is more people.  Or at least each other, but I guess that'll never happen.     We could be a little more welcoming here.  Perhaps some new blood would actually have something new to say?  OK, that's unlikely, but perhaps they'd at least regurgitate the same crap we've been spewing for five years in a slightly different pattern.

[Ironwood]

The trouble with that is the games haven't changed.

So it would be new people saying the same things we did 5 years ago.

[Furiously]

  <---baby Jesus

Look what you went and did!!!!!

[WayAbvPar]

As far as savaging new posters- anyone who has read a message board in the past decade should know some the etiquette involved...I like to see new faces, but they will be better served being seen and not heard until they understand how things flow here...

 I was scared to death to post at LtM when I first started reading it. I eventually figured out how to jump into the flow without A) drawing undue attention to myself, and B) sounding like a total dumbass. Unfortunately for the rest of you I have  become comfortable enough to write whatever the hell is on my mind by now  :-D

I do the same thing in any new community I join. Lurk, learn, and finally lash out. 3 L's to live by!

As for Grimwell- meh. He is a good guy and he loves games, but I never found his commentary so fascinating that I had to search it out to read it. Except for the infamous 'For the Children' rant, which I chalk up to a lapse in his medication or something. Sorry things didn't work out for him at GG. Wish he would post here, but sounds like that ain't gonna happen.

[Llava]

I'm just not convinced that we're that mean to newcomers.

As long as their "I'm new" post isn't brutally stupid (like it being an "I'm new.... and I have this awesome idea for a MMG that I'm going to make  that will sell more than WoW!!" post) I've seen most people here being quite friendly about the whole thing.

Of course, a couple people will jump in with the tongue-in-cheek lashing out, but generally they follow that up with a "just kidding, welcome" of some sort.

<shrug>

I don't think we're as mean as we think we are.  We just like to pretend like we are.  Except Shockeye- he's really that mean.

[HaemishM]

Llava, I'll grant you the idiocy of the "I'm new" posts.  They are more than a bit useless, but just because someone makes one doesn't mean they should be jump all over and spazzed on.  I didn't mean to imply that F13 was unfriendly, just more like trying to work your way into a special club.  If you haven't read for a while, or are very careful and generic in your posts, you'll drag down the wrath of the posters and mods on you without realizing what you did wrong.

We eat our own young.

[Sky]

Cool beans.

 

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

I just realized just now that this is not Schild's MySpace page, I take back everything I have posted. Sorry to have troubled you.

[schild]

I want to see!

[Strazos]

I think you're alone on that one.

[Soln]

I like hockey.  Some people like figure skating.  Some people like Smurfs on ice.  /discuss

[Hoax]

I feel like somebody removed the real start of this post, what the fuck happened here?

My thoughts:

1.  Not counting Shockeye, people just treat newbs the same way they are treated on every internet forum.  If you try to just jump onto a board and comment your going to take a bunch of shit for having a low postcount.  F13 members don't judge based on postcount (although I've been trying to buy respect that way) but they do like to fuck with anyone whose first post is a new topic.  That is not new, welcome to the internet.

2.  This Grimwell guy is a moron, did any of you actually read that stationpass review thing?  He said something along the lines of SWG has made great improvements and is an awesome game if only it wasn't called StarWars.  He's like the Satan to f13's Jesus, I for one hate him. 

Or something, I hate it when I feel like I've missed a good thread.