Collected EVEnoob thoughts for the week

[Mr_PeaCH]

First let me say that I'm personally thrilled that the corp continues to get some new blood; meaning I'll no longer be the least skilled or knowledgable so I got that going for me.  Anyhoo...

I wanted to talk about 'instas' for a second.  Last week and this week I really learned the value of having some good instas bookmarked what with BI guys trying to web or scram me and kill me in just about every surrounding system.  I have cribbed some of your bookmarks here and there but I have begun to get better at making my own (my first few were horrible).  And as I started doing it for myself I came upon a method that to me at least makes sense and I wanted to see if it made sense to anyone else.

Now, there are at least a couple of good reasons for having good instas.  One is to cut time on inter-system travel.  But the other is more critical and that is to be able to get in and out of bottle-necks like stargates and stations with a quickness that prevents you from being ganked by hostiles.  Related to this, the idea of warping out to somewhere safe, means that you should always have a safety insta in any particular system that you spend time in (like mining) in case unexpected company drops by and you're not prepared to handle it by yourself.

Alright, I think that part is well understood by you vets but here's what I put together for myself.  Mentally diagram if you will a system like Neesher where our headquarters is at as well as 3 stargates.  Sometimes you're passing through Neesher from one SG to another trying to get somewhere else and sometimes you're entering or leaving the station.  Plus you might rat or mine in Neesher so you'd want to have a safety spot that is none of those places.  But rather than create instas from each of the SGs to base (3) and from base to each of the SGs (3 more) and then create instas to and from each SG (6 more), think on this.  That was 12 instas created without even bringing up the easiest insta to make, the Safety Insta.  Your safety should be somewhere in 'dead space', somewhere where you wouldn't typically be found or discovered without some serious detective work by your enemies.  So stations are not good choices, and neither are ABs.  But what about the planets and the moons?  To me these make perfect sense because they are not places that people typically go so they wouldn't be places that you'd be looked for at. 

So what I do first in a system is create my Safety Insta at a place like the last moon of the first planet or the first moon of the last; makes no difference.  Just drill down your right-click menu and pick one at random; go there and book mark it as SAFETY.  Now use the safety to go back and make instas for a base or the SGs.  You only have to make it one-way; you already have a perfectly good Safety Insta which doesn't need to be dialed in the way your instas for bases or SGs need to be.  In Neesher this makes 4 instas that I need to worry about after the safety rather than 12 the other way.  The only downside is that you could be a little faster when jetting around between multiple systems because you're not going from SG to SG direct anymore; you hop through the Safety.

[Yegolev]

I once made a bookmark that was a couple AU from anything at all, but I don't know how to do that other than running out of cap when warping. =)

[Alkiera]

I read a guide that suggested an even safer safety generation method, that gave you an actual point in deadspace.

A) pick a spot in the system.  Warp to someplace FAR, and hit the 'bookmark' button in the middle of warp.
B) warp back to that bookmark.
C) warp from there a different Far place, and hit the bookmark button on the way.
D) mark that second BM 'safety', and get rid of the first one.
E) build all your other instas off of that spot.
F) Profit!!

Alkiera

[Hoax]

You definately want to go the safespot route for two reasons:

1) less BM's needed
2) safespots are a must-have for wartime.

As others have mentioned though a true "safespot" will be somehwhere that an opponent will have to find rather then a celestial body that anyone can warp to. 

Basically a real deadspace safespot that is setup properly (more then 2AU from any other celestial body -as max scanning range is a little over 2AU, although I dont know if there are skills/mods that can boost this) can only be "busted" through the use of scanner probes, which are quite expensive.

[Catalan]

Other interesting instas are observation ones... I have one at about 300 km from the Neesher station to check on camper ship types from out of their range.

[Murgos]

I thought I read on the forums somewhere that max scanner distance could be pushed out as far as 12 AU.  I imagine it's probably next to impossible to get a bookmark somewhere that is more than 12 AU from any easily navigable point of interest.  It may be possible in some systems with a POI that you can do that jump and BM trick thats in some way far out of the way area but probably not in every system (12 AU at even 10,000m/s is like, forever.)

Of course, if someone is that set on hunting you down that they are going to take the time to go POI to POI and send out scan probes while thier buddies cover the exits you probably ought to be figuring out what your next ship should be and hoping you backed up your clone recently.  Actually, having three or more safe spots would probably ensure your saftey even in that case, if you jump between them the amount of assests they would have to allocate to searching for you would have grow very quickly.

In other newbie news I have now tried Caldari and Amarr Frigates and I think I want to go try out Minmater now, something about the Gallente just turn me off but I will probably try them later anyways just to check out Drones more thoroughly.  I don't know about the Minmater though, they seem too much like jack-of-all-trades types to really be effective but thier ships are really fast.

[Viin]

I use two kinds of instas. Travelling instas that are stargate to stargate (I really don't want to jump to a safespot that could 180 degrees in the wrong direction), and combat instas. Combat instas are exactly like you said: create a safespot somewhere random (see the jump to multiple points method above), and from there create instas to the stargates and any stations you'd want to dock at.

The problem I have is labeling these and organizing them in a way that makes sense so that when I'm in a hurry I select the right one. Still working on that.

[Merusk]

I read a guide that suggested an even safer safety generation method, that gave you an actual point in deadspace.

A) pick a spot in the system.  Warp to someplace FAR, and hit the 'bookmark' button in the middle of warp.
B) warp back to that bookmark.
C) warp from there a different Far place, and hit the bookmark button on the way.
D) mark that second BM 'safety', and get rid of the first one.
E) build all your other instas off of that spot.
F) Profit!!

This is the method you want to use.  I heard Mr. Crick from Corp explaining it one day.  Basically, the bookmark is created at the spot in space you are when you hit "save".  You can save a bookmark mid-warp, and that bookmark will be at that location, not where you're warping to or from and thus, safely in deadspace and away from moons, belts, etc where folks can search for you without a dedicated search set-up.

[WayAbvPar]

I thought there needed to be an object in space to bookmark- which is why most people tell you to drop a can and bm it when making travel instas. How does the bookmark work while warping?

[Furiously]

Note - the reason you don't want to make your safespot between gate A and gate B is that it makes you apt to get warp bubbled.

that is why you want to go off on a tangent.

[Reg]

I thought there needed to be an object in space to bookmark- which is why most people tell you to drop a can and bm it when making travel instas. How does the bookmark work while warping?

You don't need to drop a can to make a bookmark. Just look at your People and Places window. There's a button there that will make a bookmark wherever you happen to be.

[Silus Fromme]

Bookmarks are generated when you click "OK", not when you hit "Create Bookmark".  Lots of people wind up with BMs at gates and stations when they meant to make them in the middle of the warp route because they start editing the title and info of their BM while still warping and only hit OK once the trip is done.

Currently, scanners have mild z-axis retardation.  Whenever possible, make your safespots very far above, or below, the plane of the ecliptic.

Agent missions are often a good way to get a BM waaaay out in the middle of nowhere.

BMs still require you to align for warp, so be careful how you set up station-to-gate instas or you'll wind up caught on the station geometry and unable to enter warp.

Since I didn't see it mentioned explicitly, here's a brief rundown on Instadocks:

Stations are big, real big.  Because of this, if you drop a BM the instant you undock it'll probably be located such that 15km in all directions from that BM are still 0km from the station itself.  That means that anywhere you are in system you can just warp to that Instadock BM, and dock within 1-2 seconds of coming out of warp.  Even the craftiest station camper will be hard pressed to target and fire when you've got a good Instadock.

Be warned though, that there are a few types of station model that are too narrow on one axis or another.  Instadocking these stations can be troublesome, as you may need different BMs for the same station depending on whether you'll be warping from one side of the system or the other.



Caught between preview and post:   "How does making a BM in warp work?[para]"

Simple.  Open People and Places.  Then enter warp.  While you're still mid warp, hit "Add Bookmark" then IMMEDIATELY hit "OK".  You can go back and edit the name of the BM at your leiser.

[Yegolev]

Bookmarks are generated when you click "OK", not when you hit "Create Bookmark".

I have never noticed this.  While I am sure you know what you are talking about, I plan to play with this.  After all, it does display coords.

[WayAbvPar]

Bookmarks are generated when you click "OK", not when you hit "Create Bookmark".

I have never noticed this.  While I am sure you know what you are talking about, I plan to play with this.  After all, it does display coords.

Yeah I never noticed either. Will wonder never cease?

[Mr_PeaCH]

Bookmarks are generated when you click "OK", not when you hit "Create Bookmark".  Lots of people wind up with BMs at gates and stations when they meant to make them in the middle of the warp route because they start editing the title and info of their BM while still warping and only hit OK once the trip is done.

Currently, scanners have mild z-axis retardation.  Whenever possible, make your safespots very far above, or below, the plane of the ecliptic.

Agent missions are often a good way to get a BM waaaay out in the middle of nowhere.

BMs still require you to align for warp, so be careful how you set up station-to-gate instas or you'll wind up caught on the station geometry and unable to enter warp.

Since I didn't see it mentioned explicitly, here's a brief rundown on Instadocks:

Stations are big, real big.  Because of this, if you drop a BM the instant you undock it'll probably be located such that 15km in all directions from that BM are still 0km from the station itself.  That means that anywhere you are in system you can just warp to that Instadock BM, and dock within 1-2 seconds of coming out of warp.  Even the craftiest station camper will be hard pressed to target and fire when you've got a good Instadock.

Be warned though, that there are a few types of station model that are too narrow on one axis or another.  Instadocking these stations can be troublesome, as you may need different BMs for the same station depending on whether you'll be warping from one side of the system or the other.



Caught between preview and post:   "How does making a BM in warp work?[para]"

Simple.  Open People and Places.  Then enter warp.  While you're still mid warp, hit "Add Bookmark" then IMMEDIATELY hit "OK".  You can go back and edit the name of the BM at your leiser.

GOOD STUFF.  I was going to get into what a pita it is proving to make instas for stations.  I will be implementing your suggestion for instadocks immediately.  Thanks!

[Silus Fromme]

Bookmarks are generated when you click "OK", not when you hit "Create Bookmark".

I have never noticed this.  While I am sure you know what you are talking about, I plan to play with this.  After all, it does display coords.

Feel free to experiment, I may well be wrong or giving outdated info on that one.  My bookmark making know-how comes from explanations that are 6'ish months old.

[Kashre]

You definately want to go the safespot route for two reasons:

1) less BM's needed
2) safespots are a must-have for wartime.

As others have mentioned though a true "safespot" will be somehwhere that an opponent will have to find rather then a celestial body that anyone can warp to. 

Basically a real deadspace safespot that is setup properly (more then 2AU from any other celestial body -as max scanning range is a little over 2AU, although I dont know if there are skills/mods that can boost this) can only be "busted" through the use of scanner probes, which are quite expensive.

FYI max scan range is not 2 AU, its a little over 2 billion km which is roughly 15 AU or so. The best kind of SS is one that is not within 15 AU of any celestial body, as you will not show on the scanner from anywhere but another SS within range. Thse are hard to find though.

And like he says, scan probes can bust a SS. It takes a good covert ops pilot from 90-120 seconds to find a Safespotted ship, and we know that Blood Inq has at least one covert ops pilot (the bob). You can see scan probes on the scanner though, so if you think you're at risk of getting scanned out keep checking your scanner and stay aligned to warp out to something at all times. When you see scan probes, its time to warp out and go to a new Safespot.

[Hoax]

Leon has a covert ops I believe, or he was just fitting a cloak on something while attempting a gate camp I wasn't there so I can't say w/ certainty.

[Ketty]

Bant's make an insta guide.

Gate-to-gate:

I warp into the system and then warp to the target gate.  The tricky part now is to start moving towards the gate without actually moving TO the gate.  You have to use the double click navigation to get your ship going in a direction that's going to take it as close as possible to the gate without colliding with it and at the same angle that you were going when you came out of warp.  Now what happens next depends on the racial style of the target gate:

Minmatar Gates:

Very easy to map.  Switch to tactical view and zoom out until you can see the 20 km distance ring.  Minmatar gates are, like most stations, larger than 15 KM in at least one dimension, so all you really have to do is fly towards the gate and when the rough center of the gate approaches the 15 km mark in tactical view, mark your current spot.  For gates like this, I don't even bother throwing anything out of the airlock, I just use the Add Bookmark button on the Places tab of the People and Places window.  When using the Add Bookmark feature I usually just hit the button and then save it immediately with the default "a spot in the xxxxx system" name, then go back and edit the name.

Gallente and Caldari Gates:

Usually very similar to the Minmatar method, but some of the gates are smaller and you may have to resort to Amarr gate style mapping.

Amarr:
A real PITA to map, but once you can map these puppies regularly, you'll find mapping anything else is relatively easy.  These gates are very small, so you have to use the numerical distance display in the overview rather than the tactical view.  You want your approach to come as close to the gate as possible without touching it--this is critical.  If you hit the gate, you might as well warp back to the starting gate and try your approach again.  Once you've got a good pass, wait until you're 13 KM away from the gate and either use the Add Bookmark method or jet something and bookmark it.  You should try the bookmark a few times just to make sure that it works consistently...especially if it's for a system like Rancer that's almost perpetually camped by pirates and you cannot afford the few seconds it might take to close with the gate in order to make a jump after you warp.


Station instas:

Stations are big.  Switch to tactical view and zoom out when you're approaching a station to get an idea of just how big.  Because they're so big, most of them can be insta'd very easily by simply adding a bookmark as soon as you undock from the station.  For those stations that don't fall into that category, you'll need to manually navigate as close to the center of the station as you can and bookmark that location.  Manual navigation is a real PITA when you've got a gargantuan graphic taking up your screen and you really have to hunt for empty space to double-click on, but having a good insta to a station is definitely worth the effort.

Belts:

Belts are static objects.  If you had a good spot for mining in a belt on Monday night, you'll find that the same spot is just as good after the server down time on Tuesday morning.  The roids always come back to the same spots and in the same concentrations.  So, if you're a miner, you should really make an effort to identify the best coverage spots in the belts you frequent and make instas to those spots.  Having instas to these spots means you don't have to find them again everytime, lets your gangs spend more time mining and less time moving around, and lets your haulers ALWAYS come in within 4 KM of the jet can....a huge plus when your max speed is 200 m/s at best. 

The method I use for mapping instas to these spots is as follows:
Find a good coverage spot.  A good coverage spot is one that has as many of the roids you're interested in as possible within your mining laser's max range.  Tactical view is very handy for examining the layout of the roids in a given belt.  Sort your overview by distance and start clicking on the roids that are near the far end of your mining laser's range to get a rough idea of the range.  With miner IIs, I try for 9.5 KM zones, which allows for the 2.5 KM margin of error that's built-in to bookmarks.  Once you've found your spot, kick something out of the air lock and bookmark it...you have to use this method since you'll need a visual target of the spot.  I also set the name of the jet can to "Target" to help keep things straight.  Now, warp back to the station your haulers will be working out of, or to the safe spot you're using if you're mining in a system without stations.  Warp back to the Target canister and use the Amarr Gate mapping method to get a good insta to the target spot. Note that you'll want to mark your spot as close to 15 KM as possible instead of the 13 KM you use for gates, since you're really targeting a specific point rather than an object.

[Evangolis]

I think I had somebody try to grief me in noobieland.  I was doing the tutorial missions, and this Chimaster Fong guy is following me around.  I get to the pirate keyholders step, and while I'm trying to figure out my ear from my ass, this guy snuffs them all.  Now I need a key to continue, but there are no more spawns.  There are 4 cargo containers, though, each with a key, but they all belong to the bozo who no longer names his avatars after DraonballZ characters.  He hangs around while I sidle up to one of the canisters, but once I see that I'd mess faction opening it, I send a message to newbie help asking what I should do.  Not sure whether he realized I wasn't going to steal one of his cans, or he saw the message and decided that he might not want to discuss ksing tutorial spawns, or if he just got bored waiting for fresh spawn (God knows I was), but he left right after that.

[Reg]

Yeah he was trying to get you to open one of the cans so he could gank you. What a dick.

[5150]

I think I had somebody try to grief me in noobieland.  I was doing the tutorial missions, and this Chimaster Fong guy is following me around.  I get to the pirate keyholders step, and while I'm trying to figure out my ear from my ass, this guy snuffs them all.  Now I need a key to continue, but there are no more spawns.  There are 4 cargo containers, though, each with a key, but they all belong to the bozo who no longer names his avatars after DraonballZ characters.  He hangs around while I sidle up to one of the canisters, but once I see that I'd mess faction opening it, I send a message to newbie help asking what I should do.  Not sure whether he realized I wasn't going to steal one of his cans, or he saw the message and decided that he might not want to discuss ksing tutorial spawns, or if he just got bored waiting for fresh spawn (God knows I was), but he left right after that.

The key spawns for the tutorial are far too slow, I always see newbies bitching about this in local when I fly through the systems.

He probably figured the ninja'ing the key was a faster way to do it (since he could probably have won/run if you opened fire) then wait for his own spawn......

[Yegolev]

Good insta information.  I was doing some of this but the station info is interesting.

I generally make four or five BM to a belt, organized by "compass direction" if it existed, oriented from my warp-in direction.  A = left side, B = back side, C = right side, D = front side... just in case someone asks me for belt BMs and they "look weird".  Sometimes I make an E for center but I usually don't need that.  I have not bothered to create many in Neesher, but I have a workable set for Claulenne.

Can thievery is fun unless the owner is within targeting distance.