Star Trek online?

[edlavallee]

http://www.startrek.perpetual.com/

I am more a reader than a poster, but I started this thread because I wanted to get some opinions. My experience indicates you all are not very shy when it comes to opinions, so what better place?

Anyway, another franchise has decided it would be a good idea to enter the world of online games. Probably old news, but this generated a little bit of a buzz on one of my discussion groups. I will post part of one of the messages below and let you all have at it...

I see many innovations capable in the MMORPG area, which one day may be integrated into one of these new games. And Star Trek might not be a bad way to go about it...
 
Envision this... A ship or station is a virtual hub into many different game genres (worlds/planets). Some will be advanced (lasers and other techno-gear), some will be not so advanced (caveman rudimentary weapons), some might be magical (dragons, swords, etc) and some might be American at any phase of history (gunfights at the OK Corral, gangster mob hits like one Star Trek episode, medieval knights and castles, modern war ala Battlefield 2). What this does is not pigeon hole you into any one theme, what it might do is give you a credible vehicle to hold all themes.

Also, consider this... there had to be entertainment on board, what about one of the areas on the ship being a virtual casino where you wager your earnings on games of chance? Texas Holdem, blackjack, roulette, what have you... Wasn't there a holodeck where Picard acted out scenes from literature? Possibilities are seemingly endless.
 
The issue is with execution, not with the medium. All it takes is for one game to see the possibilities and we are on for one wild ride.

[Merusk]

Sounds way too much like "We're going to do a Space Sandbox, but we'll do it RIGHT (unlike SWG)!" to my inner ear.   That way only lies pain, suffering, and failure.

Also, I recall that previously ST:O was going to be some kind of forced-grouping adventure game.  The catasses get to be captains, joe casual the 'red shirts' and everyone else falling in between.  IF this is a shift in ideaology already, well,  DOOOM.

[edlavallee]

Sounds way too much like "We're going to do a Space Sandbox, but we'll do it RIGHT (unlike SWG)!" to my inner ear.   That way only lies pain, suffering, and failure.

Also, I recall that previously ST:O was going to be some kind of forced-grouping adventure game.  The catasses get to be captains, joe casual the 'red shirts' and everyone else falling in between.  IF this is a shift in ideaology already, well,  DOOOM.

The discussion occurred in a completely unrelated forum and is not affiliated with ST:O at all, so this does not indicate any change of direction on their end. Purely an acedemic discussion between observers.

[Jobu]

Envision this... A ship or station is a virtual hub into many different game genres (worlds/planets).

Isn't this how Tabula Rasa started out? Considering they completely scrapped the idea to start over and make something fun... I suspect that idea isn't as rosy as it seems.

I think at this point, MMOs have picked up the "license-curse" that console games had during the 80s and 90s. If it's based on a licensed property (ESPECIALLY movies or shows) then it's going to suck. Star Wars, Matrix, and now Star Trek. It's going to be weird seeing avatars sprinting through the hallways of the ship.

Here's a little diddy on Gamasutra about the pre-production to get their "look and feel" down: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060221/pieragostini_01.shtml

[edlavallee]

Isn't this how Tabula Rasa started out? Considering they completely scrapped the idea to start over and make something fun... I suspect that idea isn't as rosy as it seems.

So, what was the problem with Tabula Rasa that caused it to be scrapped? Are there design reasons? Implementation issues? What made it "not fun"?

On the surface it seems that each of these are successful in their own right, why would they not be successful encapsulated in another?

[Furiously]

Elves in Battlefield 2.

[WayAbvPar]

Elves in Battlefield 2.

On the surface that sounds horrifying, but on 2nd thought, shooting a fucking elf in the face with a sniper rifle would be damned good fun. Maybe have a "Reservoir Dogs" mini-game where I can remove their ears to Stealer's Wheel.

[edlavallee]

Elves in Battlefield 2.

And what's not fun about that?

[schild]

Doesn't SirBruce work for Perpetual? Just sayin.'

[Furiously]

Elves in Battlefield 2.

On the surface that sounds horrifying, but on 2nd thought, shooting a fucking elf in the face with a sniper rifle would be damned good fun. Maybe have a "Reservoir Dogs" mini-game where I can remove their ears to Stealer's Wheel.

The only problem is "Legolas" would be spawn camping you when you pop in so you would never get to experience it, because his dark elf friend Drizzit and himself would be pwnering you.

[Surlyboi]

Nah, L3g0la5 and Drizzt865 would be too busy making slash pr0n off in the corner to pwn anybody.

[Yegolev]

Connecting several different games within a framework like this does not seem like a good avenue for development.  You'd want a dev team for each individual game and an art team for each environment, otherwise you'll get game-heat-death as resources are spread too thin and everything ends up sucking midget clown cock.

[El Gallo]

I'm with Yeg.  You'd end up with a shitty western game, a shitty caveman game, a shitty fantasy game, a shitty space combat game, etc all connected together.  In a world of infinite resources, it could be cool. 

Keep in mind that once upon a time a group of non-idiots with some decent funding got together, tried to focus 100% of their energies on just making a good fantasy game, and came out with Asheron's Call II. 

[Margalis]

OH SNAP!

Anyway, it's fine to plan for that sort of thing and the license would allow it, but it's better to start small. It's actually a bit hard to imagine a Star Trek MMORPG that played like a typical levelling game. I suppose you could have each person pilot a ship and fight space squids all day like in E&B but it would probably be better as a more social/sandbox game where you hang out in 10-forward and craft synthahol or something like that.

[raydeen]

I'm with Yeg.  You'd end up with a shitty western game, a shitty caveman game, a shitty fantasy game, a shitty space combat game, etc all connected together.  In a world of infinite resources, it could be cool. 

Enter Stargate Online. That would be the perfect example of such a scenario. SG-1 sees a pretty wide variety of environments and technology week to week. If it ever sees the light of day, I think that at least multiple environments would be one of the features. I sort've doubt that varied tech would go into the game as you'd probably only be facing off against the known factions in the game and not the indiginous population of each planet.

Star Trek Online seems like a pretty bland idea at this point. I think everybody is sick to death of that IP by now.

[Arthur_Parker]

Sounds a bit like Westworld the movie and tv-show.

[ahoythematey]

Sounds like the mole to me.

[cevik]

Star Trek online eh?  I can't think of a more boring bland unentertaining worthless peice of crap license opportunity to make a boring bland unentertaining worthless peice of crap virtual world out of.

I say go for it.. it's pretty clear to me that from it's very inception, Star Trek was destined to be a Virtual Word.. I can't imagine better bedfellows..

[Arthur_Parker]

"SPACE THE FINAL FRONTIER. THESE ARE THE VOYAGES OF THE STARSHIP KN08J0CK3Y, HER FOUR MONTH MISSION TO EXPLORE STRANGE NEW WORLDS, TO SEEK OUT NEW LIFE AND NEW CIVILIZATION, TO BOLDLY GO WHERE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS HAVE GONE BEFORE."

[Soln]

got another

gotta catch em all

[sarius]

I'm with Yeg.  You'd end up with a shitty western game, a shitty caveman game, a shitty fantasy game, a shitty space combat game, etc all connected together.  In a world of infinite resources, it could be cool. 

Enter Stargate Online. That would be the perfect example of such a scenario. SG-1 sees a pretty wide variety of environments and technology week to week. If it ever sees the light of day, I think that at least multiple environments would be one of the features. I sort've doubt that varied tech would go into the game as you'd probably only be facing off against the known factions in the game and not the indiginous population of each planet.

Star Trek Online seems like a pretty bland idea at this point. I think everybody is sick to death of that IP by now.

My problem with Star Trek in general is all scenarios invariably translate to:

Endgame 1: I time travel before the villains were born and kill their parents.
Endgame 2: I trick the Q into killing their entire species.
Endgame 3: I hire some Klingons from the H3YWUJABLOM3 clan and shit stomp the enemy, no matter what level of technology they possess.

Inherent problems arise when the only thing you can do to keep a franchise afloat is turn your characters into gods.  SG-1 seems much more appealing than Star Trek scenarios, but we shall see.

[edlavallee]

Connecting several different games within a framework like this does not seem like a good avenue for development.  You'd want a dev team for each individual game and an art team for each environment, otherwise you'll get game-heat-death as resources are spread too thin and everything ends up sucking midget clown cock.

You know, I wondered about that. If anyone has studied globalization (with respect to business), one approach to entering a new market is to create an alliance with an in-country company. In this way you mitigate your risk, as well as enable you to leverage their knowledge, expertise and distribution. Now if I were a company interested in doing what was suggested, why could I not use the same strategy? Have my own development for the "hub" so to speak, and ally with other dev teams, perhaps even other companies for the other "spokes"? One issue could be continuity and similar look & feel...

If I were a big enough company, with many multiple projects going on at the same time (e.g., SONY), could this be a way to integrate my offerings into one package?

[HaemishM]

Let's not be naive.

The Star Trek Online game will be a bland, formulaic MMOG clone of something, probably EQ/Diku/WoW in the end. The Star Trek world is a restrictive license in terms of creative freedom, and since TNG, has been one of the most bland, uninteresting worlds ever created (though DS9 was fun). There isn't much you can do with the license without completely breaking the cardinal rules of their world. I don't think anyone could make a fun, innovative game with that license, no matter what era they set it in.

Virtual sandbox? Not a chance in hell of that ever happening. The very idea that someone could make a Federation starship captain named Ilovehotdogs would make the Paramount folks shit themselves.

[Strazos]

Virtual sandbox? Not a chance in hell of that ever happening. The very idea that someone could make a Federation starship captain named Ilovehotdogs would make the Paramount folks shit themselves.

Not sure they would care - They would be getting money, keeping the license alive, and such things wouldn't be in cannon or anything.

[Samwise]

Not sure they would care - They would be getting money, keeping the license alive, and such things wouldn't be in cannon or anything.

They wouldn't be in canon either.

[Furiously]

You don't think they will blow up?

[Yegolev]

You know, I wondered about that. If anyone has studied globalization (with respect to business), one approach to entering a new market is to create an alliance with an in-country company. In this way you mitigate your risk, as well as enable you to leverage their knowledge, expertise and distribution. Now if I were a company interested in doing what was suggested, why could I not use the same strategy? Have my own development for the "hub" so to speak, and ally with other dev teams, perhaps even other companies for the other "spokes"? One issue could be continuity and similar look & feel...

If I were a big enough company, with many multiple projects going on at the same time (e.g., SONY), could this be a way to integrate my offerings into one package?

I mostly just study my navel, but here's a couple problems in my opinion.

First, having contractors do the various games will make things worse simply due to the logistics involved in herding them toward a common framework or release date.  If your company is poor then you might have no choice, unless you realize that one choice is to make just one game.  As someone in a movie once said: "A man's got to know his limitations."

Second, if it was a truly big and global company, like mine, you don't associate with other people unless you have to when it comes to your core business.  Partnering is one thing but having your main revenue thingy controlled by someone else is less appealing than simply elbowing your way in with fat stacks of cash.  Get the checkbook out and do it right from the start, using well-controlled assets.  This notion also should insinuate that licensing IP is a bad idea, and we have a pretty good example of how that can fail.

[HaemishM]

Virtual sandbox? Not a chance in hell of that ever happening. The very idea that someone could make a Federation starship captain named Ilovehotdogs would make the Paramount folks shit themselves.

Not sure they would care - They would be getting money, keeping the license alive, and such things wouldn't be in cannon or anything.

They would care, because legions of frothing retard Star Trek fans would be all over the Internet screeching "KHHHHAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN!" like Kirk in Star Trek 2 and threatening to go on some kind of mongoloid Klingon killing spree as their Pon'far's all intersected at the same time in a whiny orgy of nerd fury.

And Rick Berman would listen because he is a fucking idiot.

[Fabricated]

I think it could be done if it was set in a time line around but not AT the same as any of the series. Of course that won't happen since everyone will want to be sharing the same space as Kirk/Seven-of-Nine/Janeway/Picard or whomever their captain/nerd fantasy of their choice is.

[Furiously]

Oh by the way - our space station just got warped out to the delta quadrant. We have no large ships and will be sending you in a shuttlecraft to gather resources. Maybe if you kill some spacerats you can upgrade your shuttle to the healing or tanking shuttle.

[Yegolev]

Oh by the way - our space station just got warped out to the delta quadrant. We have no large ships and will be sending you in a shuttlecraft to gather resources. Maybe if you kill some spacerats you can upgrade your shuttle to the healing or tanking shuttle.

Winnar!

My favorite is Captain Pike.  BEEEP  BEEEP!

[Surlyboi]

We need Ronald Moore to take control (and maybe beat berman down with a crowbar).

New Battlestar Galactica MMO... mmmmmm

[El Gallo]

as their Pon'far's all intersected at the same time in a whiny orgy of nerd fury.

I think this is my new favorite Haemish quote.

[Yegolev]

We need Ronald Moore to take control (and maybe beat berman down with a crowbar).

New Battlestar Galactica MMO... mmmmmm

Not sure that's such a great idea.  Sounds like it would be Vampire: The Masquerade ... IN SPAAAAAACE!

[Stormwaltz]

New Battlestar Galactica MMO... mmmmmm

I like the show, but it's not especially well suited for an MMG. Unless you like political PVP with occasional space combat.