Noob ?; spell upgrades

[Xilren's Twin]

I'm still trying to determine how to most effectively use my spells since they have their own rankings.  So my question is this.  I just got my 2nd pet spell, the centipede one, which of course starts off a Apprentice I.  My previous pet spell, the scarab, is Adept I.  Does that mean I should stick with the old pet despite it being a lower level spell b/c it's ranked higher, or use the higher level spell with the lesser rank?  The other spell are pretty standard "higher level spells do more damage for more mana" so rank doesn't appear to be as much of a factor there.

And my god is the crafting the most disorganized packrat mess I ever seen.  Just being able to pull like 10 different resources from the same shrubbery baffles me as to how people can consistently get the stuff they are seeking.  Or is this more, gather everything and throw it on the broker?

Is there any way to tell the stats of the item your making before you actually create it in game?  I've got tons of raw bits of stuff, but no list of things I could make that would be useful to me.  Thus far, i've gotten to lvl 8 just by cooking the fish, frog legs I grabbed when swimming about, and no real clear path for what advanced crafting I want to take.  I was thinking Sage for spell scrolls, but if they are rare driven that doesn't sound terribly useful to me.

It's a decent enough game but easy to see why it's harder for people to get into.

Xilren

[Sky]

I'd say that's a decent summary of the current state of crafting as far as I've delved into it. I always end up saying 'screw it' because it takes so damned long to accomplish anything with crafting. It can take three days just to craft a new spell (Adept), and that's conservative now that I'm in a new tier that's tougher to harvest for and yields less rares. I've found ~no~ rares since hitting lvl 20, so my best spells are AppIV, and even those I've let slide because I can't abide making inks.

If it's not fun, it should be changed. Crafting in EQ2 is not fun, it's a monumental time sink. Not having much in the way of time, I can't see bothering, and I don't have nearly the kind of money to buy stuff on the market.

[shiznitz]

As to your spell upgrade question, while I have never played a caster, one typically needs to have an old spell at Adept 3 or Master 1 to make it superior to an App 1 of the higher level version. Also, considering the fact that actually using an App 1 is nuts since App 2s are on vendors I would say go with the new spell.

In general, plan on using Adept 1s until you cap a spell line. Too expensive to try and keep even some of your spells at Adept 3 from 20-50 unless you are making them for yourself. Better to invest in gear upgrades.

[eldaec]

Recipe book is a disaster (devs seem to think removing subcombines will help - which misses the point somewhat).

But the reason for gathering being as it is is simple, gathering is inrtended as something to do while adventuring, then you batch craft everything for xp.

As for rares, practically anything you can sell will involve a rare, (adept spells, imbued weapons/armour, rare poisions) common potions, poisons and food/drink are generally passed on for free to guildies.

Crafting is only fun if you enjoy running your online market stall and actively seeking players to sell to.

And will only ever *be* fun in *any* MMOG if you enjoy that.

[Venkman]

Xil, in the case where a spell upgrades (like your pet), it's generally better to go with the new pet than an Adept I of the old pet. I have seen some crazy Master-level spell scrolls for newbie spells, but on the order of 30-50gold. And the benefits, while good, aren't jaw-dropping-run-out-to-IGE quality. Shiznitz has it straight on.

I can't remember the prices on App IIs, but I seem to recall them not being worth the money in the early levels. I've just been not bothering, saving my gold for Adepts on those spells where it matters (not everything needs Master II).

On App IVs, I just upgraded my Freeze spell to Adept I. I could get that or App IV. The App IV had almost the same max damage as the Adept I, but the lower end of the damage was like 60% of the lower end damage of the Adept I.

Organizationally, yea, it's a mess. I have become quite familiar with the 'Filter' system in the crafting. Even at Artisan 8, I must have upwards of 100 or so recipes. It's nice to give a taste of everything, but this is overkill in the extreme. I'm effectively ignoring everything that isn't part of the quest series given by the representative in the Crafting Instances. I assume that'll bring me to around 10-ish for my first sub-choice.

As eldaec said, this is something to do while adventuring.

The system of resource collection here works somewhat like WoW: Every area spawns a resource appropriate to a crafting level. I don't know what those levels are, but the pattern is the same. The idea is to keep your Artisan Level to some approximate relation with your Combat Level, ensuring that when you're in an area killing stuff, you can be harvesting the resources from the land as well, and then go back and make something with it.

I imagine all crafting in the 20+ Artisan Level game gets into some form of rares. I can't see a company like SOE avoiding such a tempting use of them :)

I'm going to be a Sage. I plan to keep my levels somewhat together. I'm going to leave my Recipes book filtered just for that.

[Xilren's Twin]

Recipe book is a disaster (devs seem to think removing subcombines will help - which misses the point somewhat).
But the reason for gathering being as it is is simple, gathering is inrtended as something to do while adventuring, then you batch craft everything for xp.
As for rares, practically anything you can sell will involve a rare, (adept spells, imbued weapons/armour, rare poisions) common potions, poisons and food/drink are generally passed on for free to guildies.
Crafting is only fun if you enjoy running your online market stall and actively seeking players to sell to.
And will only ever *be* fun in *any* MMOG if you enjoy that.

But the thing is, i could care less about being a player vendor, I just like to dabble in crafting to make myself/guildmates some useful things.  That's what driving me nuts more than anything; i can't easily tell which of my 100 odd recipies might produce somthing worth making. Compare/contrast to WoW; when I played a rogue i chose alchemy b/c i knew the potions i crafted were things I could use, and I did, from the newbie ones to 40+.  And while there were rare recipies, or recipies that required rares, the bulk of the craftables didn't (that probably changed at 60, but at that point the whole game changed anyway).

I've got some low level rare resources like lapiz and copper, but no clue what i can make with them.  As a design choice, don't MAKE me go to external website for info that should be readily available in game.

Xilren

[Miasma]

I'm not sure if it helps but you can right click on the picture in the recipe window and an option like "Show finished product" appears, it lets you see what the stats/abilities of the thing you are making will be.  You can also create a filter in your recipes book that will only show finished products.

If you're a sage I would just make the main pets/nukes for each class.

[shiznitz]

Tier 1: city zones like Oakmyst Forest, level 1-10 items/spell
Tier 2: Antonica/Commonlands, level 11-20
Tier 3: Thundering Steppes/Nektulos, level 21-30
Tier 4: Enchanted Lands/Zek, level 31-40
Tier 5: Lavastorm/Feerrott/Everfrost/Rivervale, level 41-50
Tier 6: DoF, level 51-60

[Venkman]

Awesome list shiznitz! That's exactly what I've been wondering. I'm almost to Thundering Steppes adventuring, which is why I've been thinking of focusing on crafting this week.

Of course, I say that as I sit in a hotel in Manhatten on a computer I think I may have been able to stuff EQ2 on after all :)

[Murgos]

Focus on food/drink and everyone will love you for ever.  High quality food and drink does wonders to improve the pace of the game (Massive increases to out of combat mana/health regen).  Good for groups and great for soloing.

My experience with the other craftable areas are that by the time you can craft something that is useful to you (armor, spells, whatever) you could have bought it off the market 5 levels ago.

[Numtini]

The 2nd pet spell is only level 12. And it's one of the ones that's been revised, so it's a single combine. Anyone on any of the scholar paths would be able to craft it up to Apprentice IV.

In terms of spells in general, nobody bothers with anything of the apprentices except the App IV. Sometimes it's worth paying a premium for Adept 1, but often it's not.

Summoner pets are one of the only lower level spells that are IMHO gettingworth  at adept 3 level (the crafted level that requires a rare). For the level 12 that's a coral, which I think was about 14gold on AB with the markup on the final spell selling for 25 or so--well worth finding a scholar to make and getting the rare yourself.

The recipe book is a disaster. Absolutely. I'd like to see filtering to eliminate anything I don't have ingredients for. I'd like to filter out by profession. I'd like to filter out based on usability by class and level of the final product. And absolutely, I want to see what all the different versions stats are. That's even more important for jewelry as sometimes the stats are different at different quality ranges, making lower quality more useful if that's the stat you're looking for.

Provisioner food and drink is really one of the most useful crafts you can take, but I found dealing with the vast number of ingredients to be very confusing.

[UD_Delt]

Tier 1: city zones like Oakmyst Forest, level 1-10 items/spell
Tier 2: Antonica/Commonlands, level 11-20
Tier 3: Thundering Steppes/Nektulos, level 21-30
Tier 4: Enchanted Lands/Zek, level 31-40
Tier 5: Lavastorm/Feerrott/Everfrost/Rivervale, level 41-50
Tier 6: DoF, level 51-60

Additional Info:

Tier 1: Harvesting skill needed: 0 ---- Level Needed (crafter or adventurer): 1
Tier 2: Harvesting skill needed: 20 ---- Level Needed: 4
Tier 3: Harvesting skill needed: 90 ---- Level Needed: 18
Tier 4: Harvesting skill needed: 140 ---- Level Needed: 28
Tier 5: Harvesting skill needed: 190 ---- Level Needed: 38
Tier 6: Harvesting skill needed: 240 ---- Level Needed: 48

[UD_Delt]

Focus on food/drink and everyone will love you for ever.  High quality food and drink does wonders to improve the pace of the game (Massive increases to out of combat mana/health regen).  Good for groups and great for soloing.

My experience with the other craftable areas are that by the time you can craft something that is useful to you (armor, spells, whatever) you could have bought it off the market 5 levels ago.

Add totems to that list of great stuff. If you solo you should be using them. You'll need a woodworker to make them for you though as the markup on those is INSANE. Totems usually add about an additional 50-75% of the regen of food/drink.

To give you an idea a tier 4 totem (30-40) costs about 4s to make each one. On the broker on Grobb they go for about 2-3g each. Tier 4 is where you also get SoW totems and Invis totems so definately handy to have a woodworker around, not to mention bows, shields, and wooden weapons.

[Cheddar]

Focus on food/drink and everyone will love you for ever.  High quality food and drink does wonders to improve the pace of the game (Massive increases to out of combat mana/health regen).  Good for groups and great for soloing.

My experience with the other craftable areas are that by the time you can craft something that is useful to you (armor, spells, whatever) you could have bought it off the market 5 levels ago.

Add totems to that list of great stuff. If you solo you should be using them. You'll need a woodworker to make them for you though as the markup on those is INSANE. Totems usually add about an additional 50-75% of the regen of food/drink.

To give you an idea a tier 4 totem (30-40) costs about 4s to make each one. On the broker on Grobb they go for about 2-3g each. Tier 4 is where you also get SoW totems and Invis totems so definately handy to have a woodworker around, not to mention bows, shields, and wooden weapons.

Teehee I am a woodworker.  Currently gathering materials so I can make the leap to level 30 crafting.