Gaymers force Blizzard into submission

[cevik]

GLBT friendly, as I said, implies a home for gay men, bisexuals, transgenders and lesbian women, and anyone who doesn't find that too icky. It most certainly does imply that somewhere in there will be a higher proportion of gay men than straight men. Which in essence makes the guild a "gay guild" because that's what they advertise as.

Contradict yourself much?

EDIT:  If you can't even decide what you're trying to say, why are you posting?  "Being in a GLBT Friendly guild implies there will be some gay people and some non-gay people, therefore it's obviously an all gay guild".. whatever.. bigot.

[HaemishM]

No, it implies that it will be a mostly gay guild, and that most often, the subject of being gay and gay talk and all such things gay will be important. Whether that is the case or not, when you make your sexual identity the main focus of your guild, how can you be surprised if people not in your guild think you are going to be heavily focused on that sexual identity?

BTW, I wouldn't join an African-American friendly guild either, not because I am some kind of racist bigot (which you apprently think I am), but because I'm not African-American. The same way I wouldn't join a church that was 'Gay-friendly' or a gaming group that was 'gay-friendly.' Because really, all it tells me is that the group's hot button issue is caught up protecting gay people, and I'd rather focus on gaming or the religion instead of on things that piss off gay people, like intolerance to gay people.

[cevik]

BTW, I wouldn't join an African-American friendly guild either, not because I am some kind of racist bigot (which you apprently think I am), but because I'm not African-American. The same way I wouldn't join a church that was 'Gay-friendly' or a gaming group that was 'gay-friendly.' Because really, all it tells me is that the group's hot button issue is caught up protecting gay people, and I'd rather focus on gaming or the religion instead of on things that piss off gay people, like intolerance to gay people.

Wait just a minute, you've lost your famous pendantry and are now trying to change the argument YET AGAIN.

I never said I wanted to you join the guild.  I certainly never intended to join the guild (hey, it's not my thing).  The argument has never been that you should have to join the guild.  The argument has been that the guild should be allowed to exist and advertise because it doesn't harm anyone for them to do so.  Only interested parties should join the guild, if the argument was about forcing people to join the guild it would be a different argument altogether (and I'd be on a different side). 

[HaemishM]

The argument has been that the guild should be allowed to exist and advertise because it doesn't harm anyone for them to do so. 

Now who is changing the argument? I have never said the guild shouldn't be ALLOWED to exist. And I only said they shouldn't be allowed to advertise in general, public chat channels, because I don't think anyone should be allowed to recruit for guilds in general chat, but especially guilds whose main identity seems to be in hot button issues that will bait the retards. They can advertise in the recruitment channel (now that it exists) all they want, it isn't a public chat channel. They can advertise in any other non-intrusive ways they want. Hell, I think it'd be great if they did events on the server as a non-invasive recruiting tool, like arena tourneys or some such. But the minute they start in with the GLBT, or Hardcore Raiding, or African-American-friendly thing in general public chat channels, they have gone too far, IMO.

I brought up joining only because I'm saying I wouldn't be a part of them because of how they establish their identity, along the lines of sexual preference and tolerance for such. I never said anyone is forcing me to join.

You keep wanting to call me a bigot and say that I'm saying things I'm most certainly not. I may not rite gud sometimes, or clearly, but I most certainly haven't said the things you keep trying to pin on me. I see it's boring at work for you again, if you seem to want to troll this thread to 70.

[cevik]

The argument has been that the guild should be allowed to exist and advertise because it doesn't harm anyone for them to do so.

Now who is changing the argument?

No one.

[Dren]

I am probably way off base, but that is my initial thought.  My initial thought is not going to change no matter how many capitalized words you through my way.

That's the interesting thing about initial thoughts.  They are often wrong.

In my personal case, life has proved that initial thought right.  People that publicly state to me they are gay friendly subsequently have a lot of gay friends around them a lot of the time and their conversations are many times about gay activities.  I never said I thought gay friendly = gay.  I said it hints to you what the atmosphere around that person is like most of the time.  It does for me anyway.  I think Haemish is saying the same thing.

If this guild is completely different than that, great.  If they are just like I stated, great.  I just stated what my own experiences have concluded in my own mind.  Yours obviously are different.

I only stated my own personal thoughts because I think that is what many people think of when guilds like this advertise like they did.  OMG, they sit around in channel talking about gay stuff.  If that wasn't their intent, they shouldn't have made that the main focus of their soundbite.  Because there isn't a lot of detail in a shout over the general chat, we are forced to come to some conclusions quickly.

You hint that I'm wrong about this guild.  Can you prove it?  They don't talk about about gay issues in guild chat?  A majority of them are not GLBT?  If they do and they are, fantastic.  It would just prove that my intial thought generated by their general chat statement was right.  I don't care.  However, that is where the uproar was generated, in my opinion.

[cevik]

You hint that I'm wrong about this guild.  Can you prove it?  They don't talk about about gay issues in guild chat?  A majority of them are not GLBT?  If they do and they are, fantastic.  It would just prove that my intial thought generated by their general chat statement was right.  I don't care.  However, that is where the uproar was generated, in my opinion.

No, I'm saying that it doesn't matter if you are wrong or right about the guild because you won't be joining it.  All we are saying is that the guild should be allowed to exist and it should be allowed to advertise itself just like every other guild in the game.  If the method for advertising is changed, they should be required to follow those rules (i.e. when the new channels were made they should be forced to advertise in the new channels).  They should not be treated different than any other guild in the game.

BTW:  Does your circumstancial evidence support the fact that all black people eat watermelons?

[HaemishM]

BTW:  Does your circumstancial evidence support the fact that all black people eat watermelons?

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

[cevik]

BTW:  Does your circumstancial evidence support the fact that all black people eat watermelons?

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

The all Gay people only talk about Gay things and nothing else myth was confirmed by him, I've always wondered about the All Black People Eat Watermelons myth.  I thought since he was the expert on finding out wether prejuidices are true or not, that he could lend a helping hand.

EDIT:  Maybe a study can be conducted.  Dren knows a few gay people who talk about gay things.. perhaps if he knows a few black people and has seen more than 50% of them eat a watermelon at some point it will confirm the watermelon myth.  If that won't work, maybe he can invite all the black people he knows over and put a sign in front of his house that says "free watermelon" and see how many of them take him up?

[Ironwood]

Code:

STOP

[Dren]

I feel confident in saying, "Gay people talk about gay things sometimes."

Point to me where I said that is ALL they talk about.  Now, I know you are trolling. 

[sarius]

If you are going to try and tell me that saying "I'm a gay man" is saying nothing about someone's sexual preferences, then you truly have turned Gay into a political identity. That's a very bad thing.

I remember seeing someone say this earlier.  Oh yeah! me.

[cevik]

I feel confident in saying, "Gay people talk about gay things sometimes."

Point to me where I said that is ALL they talk about.  Now, I know you are trolling. 

Uhh, I'm trolling?

When we are around them, they talk about being gay.  They let you know with every other phrase that they are gay, or that person over there is gay, that they plan to go to the gay bar later, etc.  Great.  Super.  Now, my instant reaction to hearing GLBT friendly is that the chat in that guild will be filled with talk about gay activities.

So when are you goin to perform my watermelon study?

[cevik]

I remember seeing someone say this earlier.  Oh yeah! me.

And it's still wrong.  Congrats!

[Hoax]

I dont think I can stop this one, even with song lyrics, perhaps song lyrics in another language...

[HaemishM]

Yes, cevik, you are trolling. I think this thread can die a good, stupid death now.

[Dren]

I feel confident in saying, "Gay people talk about gay things sometimes."

Point to me where I said that is ALL they talk about.  Now, I know you are trolling. 

Uhh, I'm trolling?

When we are around them, they talk about being gay.  They let you know with every other phrase that they are gay, or that person over there is gay, that they plan to go to the gay bar later, etc.  Great.  Super.  Now, my instant reaction to hearing GLBT friendly is that the chat in that guild will be filled with talk about gay activities.

So when are you goin to perform my watermelon study?

You took that out of context.  Nice.  The "they" I was talking about were my friends.  Read it again.  I was not referencing ALL gay people.  I did say the chat would be "filled" with gay talk.  I'll stand by that.  Gay people will talk about gay issues.  They'll talk about them a lot.

I can't believe you don't understand that.  Thus, I called you a troll.

If you want to make a comparison to the African Americans, fine.  I would bet that black people talk about black topics alot.  I bet their days are full of black topics.  I'm not sure where watermelons came from.

[WindupAtheist]

"So these guys formed a guild in World of Warcraft to talk about how much they like a penis in their butthole?"
"Dude, that's twisted.  I'm going to go witness to them."
"Uh, I don't think that's a wise idea..."
"DAMN IT, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE!  THEY MUST BREAK FREE OF THEIR SORDID LIFESTYLE!"
"What the hell are you planning say to them, exactly?"
"That they should try EQ2, or DAoC, or something."
"..."
"Why, what did you think I was going to say?"

/rimshot

[cevik]

You took that out of context.  Nice.  The "they" I was talking about were my friends.  Read it again.  I was not referencing ALL gay people.  I did say the chat would be "filled" with gay talk.  I'll stand by that.  Gay people will talk about gay issues.  They'll talk about them a lot.

I can't believe you don't understand that.  Thus, I called you a troll.

If you want to make a comparison to the African Americans, fine.  I would bet that black people talk about black topics alot.  I bet their days are full of black topics.  I'm not sure where watermelons came from.

I perfectly understood it.  You are saying "I judge all gay people based on my limited experience with a few gay 'friends' I have."  I'm asking if you limit it to gay people or do you pre-judge everyone?

[HaemishM]

"So these guys formed a guild in World of Warcraft to talk about how much they like a penis in their butthole?"
"Dude, that's twisted.  I'm going to go witness to them."
"Uh, I don't think that's a wise idea..."
"DAMN IT, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE!  THEY MUST BREAK FREE OF THEIR SORDID LIFESTYLE!"
"What the hell are you planning say to them, exactly?"
"That they should try EQ2, or DAoC, or something."
"..."
"Why, what did you think I was going to say?"

/rimshot

Sometimes, you are a WindupNutsack, and sometimes you are fucking funny.

[cevik]

It is expected and accepted that players will discuss a wide variety of topics, based on both the game world and the real world.  Players are free to discuss personal characteristics if they wish, to include their sexual orientations and gender identities.

Paul Sams, Blizzard CEO

[Dren]

You took that out of context.  Nice.  The "they" I was talking about were my friends.  Read it again.  I was not referencing ALL gay people.  I did say the chat would be "filled" with gay talk.  I'll stand by that.  Gay people will talk about gay issues.  They'll talk about them a lot.

I can't believe you don't understand that.  Thus, I called you a troll.

If you want to make a comparison to the African Americans, fine.  I would bet that black people talk about black topics alot.  I bet their days are full of black topics.  I'm not sure where watermelons came from.

I perfectly understood it.  You are saying "I judge all gay people based on my limited experience with a few gay 'friends' I have."  I'm asking if you limit it to gay people or do you pre-judge everyone?

Ok, last one.  After this, you can just imagine me shaking my fists Colonel Klink style from Hogan's heros if you bait me again.

I did not say I judge them.  I did not say anything other than that the gay people I know talk about gay issues a lot.  My initial reaction when people say they have a gay friendly guild is that there will be a lot of talk about gay issues.  That has nothing to do with judging them.  I didn't say that was wrong or right.  I said that is what I would expect IF I joined their guild, so my reaction was to ignore it.  Is ignoring it judging them?  You said yourself you aren't interested.  Did you judge them?

Are you suggesting that because I judged that they talk about issues relevant to their own sexual preferences, I must judge them about everything else too?  Damn, there is some logic for you.  You made that jump, not me.

[cevik]

I did not say I judge them.

Yes you did, then you said it again, immedaitely after this sentence.  I'll quote it for you here:

My initial reaction when people say they have a gay friendly guild is that there will be a lot of talk about gay issues.

This is the very act of judging. 

Is ignoring it judging them?

No.  Your prejudice is that because a few gay people you know talk about being gay in "every other sentence" that all gay people everywhere will be talking about being gay in every other sentence.

You said yourself you aren't interested.  Did you judge them?

No, in fact I said there was no way any of could know what is happening in /g on their screens.  I didn't judge them at all, I've never been in the guild, I haven't slightest CLUE what they talk about, nor do I care.

Are they talking about being gay in every other sentence?  Perhaps, I don't know, I've never spoken to anyone in the guild.

Are they talking about football in every other sentence?  Perhaps, I don't know, I've never spoken to anyone in the guild.

Are they talking about what's on TV every other sentence?   Perhaps, I don't know, I've never spoken to anyone in the guild.

I'm reserving my judgement until I get into the guild and see what they talk about.  Since I already have a guild that suits my needs, I'm not really shoping for a new guild on a different server right now, so it will probably be quite some time before I ever judge these individuals.. 

[Numtini]

What's gay talk?

Let's see, recent hot throbbing gay topics included why we have 30 level 60s and still can't get a good raid together (conclusion: most of them are players with multiple 60s). Whether or not I was high enough for an instance (no). That someone's husband has a firm date to come back from deployment (yay). Someone wouldn't be around because they were going to visit their parents for the weekend (have a good time). That someone finished their taxes and taxes suck. (all agreed) And whether anyone needed the pattern for +5 skinning gloves (yes mailed).

If you think guildchat is all the guys talking about musicals and all the women talking about softball I'm afraid you'd be disappointed. (I prefer women's soccer.) And if you think it's about sex, then you'd really be disappointed.

[Lantyssa]

Lies.  LIES I tell you!

(It sounds better if you do it with a Zim voice in your head.)

[Hoax]

I NEED TACOS?

[Numtini]

I NEED TACOS

Mmmm.... tacos

[Shockeye]

If you think guildchat is all the guys talking about musicals and all the women talking about softball I'm afraid you'd be disappointed. (I prefer women's soccer.) And if you think it's about sex, then you'd really be disappointed.

I guess I won't be joining your guild then. I need hot steamy musical talk, damnit!

[Azazel]

No, it implies that it will be a mostly gay guild, and that most often, the subject of being gay and gay talk and all such things gay will be important. Whether that is the case or not, when you make your sexual identity the main focus of your guild, how can you be surprised if people not in your guild think you are going to be heavily focused on that sexual identity?

What the fuck does this have to do with them being able to advertise their guild in (formerly) general chat, and not the guild recruitment channel. Quit while you're behind.

[Azazel]

It is expected and accepted that players will discuss a wide variety of topics, based on both the game world and the real world.  Players are free to discuss personal characteristics if they wish, to include their sexual orientations and gender identities.

Paul Sams, Blizzard CEO

irrelevent. HAEMISH has other plans for general chat. And HIS will will not be denied. Apparently.

..not that he vocally gave a fuck before.

[Samwise]

Not to be pendantic, but this is a pendant:

And this is a pedant:

Also, boys have a penis and girls have a vagina.  Carry on.

[Shockeye]

I think he misses his gulag.

[Samwise]

It was so comfy.   

[Hoax]

The second you tried to uninvite Signe you should have known it was doomed.

What?  Something on-topic? I'm sorry I've already put forth arguments that I feel are still completely valid 6 pages ago, nobody wanted to actually read them then, same as it ever was.

[Azazel]

Are any of you guys tagged with Haemish?

Does he fly into a furious rage whenever something (anything) from the real world pops up in the general chat channels?

jus' askin' is all..