I hate cars....

[Jimbo]

I've owned Jeeps for a long time, first one was a 1980 CJ-5, then a 1985 CJ-7, and currently a 2000 Wrangler.  I love my current Jeep, but I am going back to school to get my Physicians Assistant degree and the nearest school is about 75+ miles away.  So, I have been thinking long and hard about what economy car to buy.  It needs to get good gas milage, not be a death trap (I've seen too many motor vehicle crashes), and be nice enough that I can take 4 people on a decent trip.

The Volkswagen Jetta Turbo Diesel is looking pretty nice, Toyota Corolla seems decent and so does the Honda Civic, or maybe the Ford Focus.  I'm partial to VW and Ford, having driven my parents VW Jetta growing up, and having had a Ford Escort for my ex-wife, those are 4/5 door cars that I liked to drive (as long as it has a manual transmission).

Hybrids won't work for the type of driving I will be doing, usually 75+ miles highway, and then some more around Indianapolis, then back home 75+ miles.  Plus the hybrids look like ass.

Price wise, was hoping to keep it under $15,000...was mainly looking for a good used car...about 2 years old, (but the new Ford Focus is pretty competitive in the new car price!).

I hate cars.com search, they can not get the search engine to truly show only cars with manual transmissions!!  I don't want a god damn automatic!  I'm one of the last fucking USA'ers that want to shift when I want too!  Fuck you too Chevy for dropping the manual transmission from your heavy duty line and making it with IFS too!  Errr...side rant about car shopping on the web  :-D

[Hokers]

I absolutely my Scion Xa.  Gets ~34mpg in mixed driving, suprising amount of room in the back seat (or so I'm told) and mine was a bit over 15 grand (only options were side curtain airbags and security system).  I did get a manual, shifts much better than my Chevy did ut not as good as the Acura.

But then I recomend that car to everyone.

[Trippy]

Hybrids won't work for the type of driving I will be doing, usually 75+ miles highway, and then some more around Indianapolis, then back home 75+ miles.  Plus the hybrids look like ass.

The Honda Civic Hybrid looks like...a Honda Civic. It is out of your price range though (as are all the other hybrids).

[UD_Delt]

My wife drives a Jetta and while it's a great car I wouldn't recommend it for taking 4 people on drives longer than about 10 minutes. Unless the 2 in the back are children. At 6'2" I just barely can manage to squeeze my knees to the sides of the front seat if I'm sitting in the back of her car and it is far from comfortable.


Edit: Oh and avoid Dodge's like the plague. I bought an Intrepid 2 years ago because it was the largest and cheapest (off lease w/ under 30,000 for under $10,000) car I could find without going SUV again. I've had nothing but problems with it. Luckily it's almost paid off though so I can now comfortably drive it into the ground and start over. It's sad that I'm talking about driving a car with barely 40,000 miles on it into the ground but oh well....

[Strazos]

I've heard/read nice things about the Scion cars....

Well, except the xB...that thing is an abomination.

[Viin]

Yamaha YZF-R6. 40-50mpg, room for 2, get-home-quickest.



Ugh, what's with the stumpy muffler?

I guess you'd have to get a YZF-R6S if you don't want to look gay, but that's good 'cause it's cheaper:

[Ironwood]

Um.

Where are the other two wheels ?

[MisterNoisy]

I've been nothing but happy with and had no problems with my Focus hatch, though I don't care all that much for the restyled nose on the newer ones.  I typically get around 30 mpg mostly in-town, and about 35-ish on the Interstate.  The only real prob with the Focus is resale value, which absolutely sucks the pipe, so I highly recommend doing what I did and look for a lightly used one.

The xA is pretty slick looking and drives pretty well (though you'll have to get used to not passing much) imo, but I have a thing for small runabout-type cars.  Also, it's a Toyota, so resale should be good, and reliability/quality will be superb for the price.

Between the two, the Focus will offer more room throughout, particularly in the backseat/trunk, while the xA offers a nicer interior and better seats.  Both cars are available with slick-shifting manuals.

I'd also look for a used Mazda 3, which is the Euro 2nd-gen Focus in Mazda drag.

[Roac]

I've heard nothing but good things from the Focus, and a friend of mine drives one.  I haven't driven one, although I did own a high milage Escort GT in college, from which a lot was borrowed for the Focus.  If that's the kind of car you're looking at, I'd also suggest the Civic.  Better milage and reliability, although it might come with a slight premium.  If you're an options whore you'd probably want to lean Focus.

[Kenrick]

I my 2005 Civic LX.

[TheWalrus]

You can't go wrong with a Toyota. You really can't. I also recommend Hondas to people, although I won't drive one because I'm apparently too tall for their designers. I would say get a VW if and only if you are a regular maintenance person. If you tend to let your cars go until the last minute, Volkswagons are NOT for you. I'm biased against Fords because I haven't worked on one yet that didn't take some blood from me. Designed with no thought of actual repair down the road. Assholes. You have to picky with Dodge. The intrepid is a piece of shit. No argument. The Neon will run forever. Have to admit I'm partial to Chev, because when things go wrong with em, repairs are almost always cheap and easy.  Be advised all the above things are from a mechanics point of view, not an aesthetics whore.  If you find a car that you love, buy it.

I'm glad you like your Jeep. If you have the inline six, I suggest you look over the exhaust studs. Every single jeep I've ever seen has had a broken exhaust stud (or two) no matter what kind of care or driving was done. Extraction can be quite expensive so if you keep on it, you can catch it before its a problem.

[HaemishM]

I never much liked the way the Ford Focus drove. Just something about its "feel" on the road I didn't like. But that's something you can't reliably pass on to someone else. I also felt the same way about the Escort 4-door I test-drove in 1998; it felt sluggish. And that was after having driven a Ford Escort 2-door for 4 years before that. That Escort I got in 1994 was one of the best, most trouble-free cars I ever had, with great mileage. But again, that was over a decade ago. Fuck.

I feel old.

[Kenrick]

I've heard nothing but good things from the Focus, and a friend of mine drives one.

That's funny... my brother in law works in the service department of a Ford dealership and he's never heard anything but bad about them.

[Nebu]

I've owned a VW GTI for the past year and would recommend it highly. Interestingly, it replaced a Jeep as well (only my Jeep was a Cherokee). On the path to this car, I test drove the Civic, Sentra, Focus svt, Mazda, and a mustang and nothing even came close.  The GTI is tight, corners well, and the 1.8 turbo has a nice kick at 2500 rpm. As funny as this sounds, the hatchback was also appealing as I often need to transport speaker cabinets for when I do "filler" gigs. 

Give it a test drive.  Like many VW's people seem to either love or hate them immediately.  For me, it was love.

[Yegolev]

I'm one of the last fucking USA'ers that want to shift when I want too!

I agree, however the last clutch I had (Ram 1500 pickup) really beat up my knee with two hours of stomping each day.  I miss the manual but my knee thanks me.  I understand the clutches are not so tough on smaller vehicles, but I drive what I got.

Fords suck, based on my experience with a Taurus.  I drove a Foc-ass while touring Scotland and I actually had to put the damn thing in first gear to climb at least one hill.  Take that as you will.  As for feel, I was shifting with my left hand which was about as weird as flogging the bishop with the "other" hand, so I can't comment.

I drove a loaner Escort, though, and it felt fine.  Same engine as the Taurus but less bloated.  Only had it for 2-3 days, though.

My experience is mostly with Dodge, however I drive the trucks.  The trucks are vastly superior to Ford or Chevy, IMO, but I can't comment on cars.  Last Dodge car I drove was a 1978 Aspen, and that car was indestructible.  The non-station-wagon version is the Volare, and as incredible as it might sound I recommend that for reliability combined with some do-it-yourself.

Get a bike.

[Furiously]

I'd save 5K more and get a new Toyota FJ. You'll never go back to Jeep.

[Strazos]

I like my Mustangs, but they don't apply to your situation.

My buddy had a GTI. I strongly disliked the car. It wasn't a bad car, per se, but it was cramped, I didn't particularly like the suspension...and I hated the look.

Keep in mind that I would never willingly drive ANY FWD vehicle, or an automatic for that matter (this doesn't include the high end hybrid transmissions....though I'd rather just have a plain stick shift).

[Nebu]

My buddy had a GTI. I strongly disliked the car. It wasn't a bad car, per se, but it was cramped, I didn't particularly like the suspension...and I hated the look.

That's the love-hate thing I was referring to.  I've always had a thing for rally cars since I spent a week in high performance driving school.  The GTI was the closest I could find in a stock vehicle under $25k.  In my opinin the suspension only shines when pushed.  For standard driving it's nothing to write home about.

On a tangent: I'm still baffled why anyone would buy a domestic car that wasn't build in or before the muscle car era (with the possible exception of trucks/SUV's). 

[Alkiera]

My buddy had a GTI. I strongly disliked the car. It wasn't a bad car, per se, but it was cramped, I didn't particularly like the suspension...and I hated the look.

That's the love-hate thing I was referring to.  I've always had a thing for rally cars since I spent a week in high performance driving school.  The GTI was the closest I could find in a stock vehicle under $25k.  In my opinin the suspension only shines when pushed.  For standard driving it's nothing to write home about.

I need to find one of those schools.

I love my '89 Civic SI...  I'm pretty sure the unibody is going to rust into pieces before the engine quits.  Which is a shame, but I'm pretty sure I'd be beat up if I went to one of those car restoration hobby clubs to learn how to restore my Civic.

Alkiera

[Nebu]

I need to find one of those schools.

I hope that this helps.

I had a 91 civic Si.  Was a fun car very reminiscent of the CRX with room.

[Strazos]

In my opinin the suspension only shines when pushed.  For standard driving it's nothing to write home about.

On a tangent: I'm still baffled why anyone would buy a domestic car that wasn't build in or before the muscle car era (with the possible exception of trucks/SUV's). 

The GTI did well enough when pushed through turns, but under normal driving conditions, as a passenger, the car made me nauseous, especially the back seat.


And why would anyone buy a domestic you ask? Well, I don't have a true answer...but for what I get with a Mustang, especially the new ones, I don't really see anything else that really compares within the price range.

[Nebu]

And why would anyone buy a domestic you ask? Well, I don't have a true answer...but for what I get with a Mustang, especially the new ones, I don't really see anything else that really compares within the price range.

I think it's a matter of personal taste.  I have a friend that bought a Bullit edition Mustang (2001 GT special edition, I believe) and allowed me to drive it for almost a week.  I found that while the car was fast (top end), it lacked quickness and was rather soft through turns (I had problems with a lot of understeer when I pushed hard).  I have to admit that I LOVED the look of the car and the creature comforts were great for casual driving.  At the price, I think this mustang would be one of the few domestics I would seriously consider over a foreign competitor.  Not so much for its performance, but for overall appeal.  Actually, I had a lot more fun driving the focus svt, but it was a bit cramped and the interior just felt "cheap" and lacking in ergonomic touches.

Another car I almost forgot about is the Nissan Sentra SR-V.  This was probably the best car for the buck in this price class, but it's a pretty stripped bare car at the price point.  Of course, I haven't driven it in a couple years so I'm not sure how much they have changed.  It had decent hp, solid braking distance, and handled pretty well given the narrow stance. 

Note: FWIW I've only driven these cars with a manual transmission.  The only cars I drive with automatics anymore are rentals.  Even my Cherokee had a manual... I think that's why I got it so cheap.   

[Alkiera]

I need to find one of those schools.

I hope that this helps.

I had a 91 civic Si.  Was a fun car very reminiscent of the CRX with room.

According to the Haynes manual I have, the SI models had most of the same engine/suspension mods that the CRX had, just a different body.

And yeah, it's fun to drive.  And due to the small engine, pretty fuel efficient too.

When I can afford a new car, I'm looking at a Subaru WRX.  Not the most fuel-efficient car, for sure, but fun to drive, and not horrid price-wise for a new car.  And I agree on the manual transmission thing... after having driven my civic for so long, I always feel weird getting into a car with automatic tranny.

Alkiera

[MisterNoisy]

And why would anyone buy a domestic you ask? Well, I don't have a true answer...but for what I get with a Mustang, especially the new ones, I don't really see anything else that really compares within the price range.

Actually, I had a lot more fun driving the focus svt, but it was a bit cramped and the interior just felt "cheap" and lacking in ergonomic touches.

The SVT may be dead, but the SVT suspension is available as a bolt-in retrofit from Ford Racing for $250.  The stock Focus suspension allows a fair amount of body roll, but hangs on pretty well and is fairly neutral for a FWD car.  The SVT setup tightens things up considerably.

I like the new Mustang as well (it's a lot of car for the money and drives damned nicely), but the interior suffers from the same domestic car problem of feeling cheap compared to those of European or Japanese equivalents -- hard plastics everywhere and so-so fit/finish - even with the interior upgrade packages.  Great car to drive and solidly built otherwise -- it's very much on my 'short list' for my next car purchase.

[Ookii]

All I can offer in advice is to not buy a 1996 Audi A4 with FWD, unless you like spending 2600 dollars in the four months you have owned the car.

I'm not bitter, not really, I love my car.

[Pococurante]

Give it a test drive.  Like many VW's people seem to either love or hate them immediately.  For me, it was love.

Me too - my love for my 2004 TDI Passat is possibly unnatural.  You definitely want something like the TDI for highway driving - my lifetime average mpg is 40.4, and lifetime average speed is 58.4 mph.  There's something deeply satisfying with blowing down the highway at 80 with the AC going fullblast and the sunroof open while still averaging 40mph.  Even though it's "only" 135 horse it's also punchy enough to pass the asshole SUV and pickup drivers.  Definitely one of my better purchases.

Well at least until the 2007 Solstice GXP hits the street.  With curves and a ragtop who cares about gas mileage.  Mrs. Poco has been warned that my latest mid-life crisis has already been approved by the bank.

[Nebu]

Well at least until the 2007 Solstice GXP hits the street.  With curves and a ragtop who cares about gas mileage.  Mrs. Poco has been warned that my latest mid-life crisis has already been approved by the bank.

That is one nice looking car... I'm going to have to find an excuse to seek one out.

[schild]

Heh, Pontiac.

[Nebu]

Heh, Pontiac.

I know.  If he makes me like a domestic car, I'm going to have to change my tune.

[Pococurante]

Or as we knew it in high school, Poor Ole' Numbnut Thought It Was A Cadillac.

They laughed at Edsel too...  Which come to think it of it still has more character than most of the shoeboxes sold today.  :P

[schild]

That's not what the N stood for, but good taste shall prevail.

[Pococurante]

Just so... ;-)

[MisterNoisy]

Well at least until the 2007 Solstice GXP hits the street.  With curves and a ragtop who cares about gas mileage.  Mrs. Poco has been warned that my latest mid-life crisis has already been approved by the bank.

That is one nice looking car... I'm going to have to find an excuse to seek one out.

Good luck.  Dealer stock will be short due to limited supply and it's not like there's anything else worth a damn on Pontiac lots, so I expect hefty markups to take advantage of the same crowd that bought Minis to replace their PT Cruisers which replaced their New Beetles.  The Saturn Sky is coming soon and will share the same chassis and looks nicer imo.  I'm curious as to whether Saturn dealers will be forced to sell at sticker, but doubt it.

[schild]

It's a shame the Sky doesn't have the looks to match the engine. When I saw prototypes of it I was almost wanting to trade in my car for it. Particularly now that I live in Arizona. But I'm not giving up my speed, acceleration and control.

[MisterNoisy]

It's a shame the Sky doesn't have the looks to match the engine. When I saw prototypes of it I was almost wanting to trade in my car for it. Particularly now that I live in Arizona.

You're kidding right?  The Ecotec 4-cyl is hardly a model of refinement or serious power delivery and the Sky looks like the Solstice with the assy Pontiac 'corporate' grille replaced by the nose from the Opel VX220.