XL

[Triforcer]

A lot of sports pundit-types are calling this "the worst on-field Superbowl" they've ever seen. 

I do disagree that Roethlisberger will never win another Super Bowl.  He got them through some games this year that they would have NOT won otherwise.  This game, he was down, and other people picked it up- that is the mark of a championship team.

Gogo Roethlisberger and Findlay OH!

[tazelbain]

Good Defence isn't as fun to watch as Good Offence.

[Paelos]

Good Defence isn't as fun to watch as Good Offence.

Good Defense is better than watching pass drops.

[Hoax]

The Steelers didn't even play good defense, they did not control Alexander he was getting 4-6 yards with ease but Seattle refused to just pound them.  The sad thing is Hasselbeck looked really good in the game but honestly he was throwing completely shit passes at least once every 5 throws, but anyone would have looked good compared to the Steelers offense (minus one trick play and one big run) in that game.

As a Bengals fan, I hate the fucking lucky, dirty, bastage Steelers.

[HaemishM]

Good Defence isn't as fun to watch as Good Offence.

Good Defense is better than watching pass drops.

Yeah, the Dropsies came back to hurt the Hawks bad in this one. Real bad. Over the last few years, it seems like when the Hawks get in their biggest games of the season, the receivers just flat out forgot how to catch the ball. Jurevicius was the best receiver they had and they didn't throw to him enough. D-Jack started like he was going to have a big day, but he couldn't make it happen on the long ball. Catching dink and dunk passes are all well and good, but when you need a big play, that's when the true greats step up and the wannabes drop the fucking ball or can't come inbounds with the catch. I will give their offensive coaches credit for one thing. Polamalu was invisible during the scheme, I think mostly due to scheme. But that clock management is unacceptable.

Rothliesberger is going to be a very good QB, IMO. But the mark of a good team is that if your QB is down, you are still in the game. Alexander's day was ok, but really, he only had 20 carries. They'd have done better to put the game on his shoulders than on D-Jack's or their receivers.

[UD_Delt]

D-Jack started like he was going to have a big day, but he couldn't make it happen on the long ball.

Except for the two touchdowns he had that were negated by shitty officiating. Well I should say one negated and one questionable.

I'm still not positive on the rule. The second was where he was running down the sidelines, catches the ball cleanly, left foot down, right foot kicks the pylon and then goes down out of bounds. I always thought a foot hitting a pylon was the same as a foot landing on the field as the pylon is considered turf.

Of course inside 2 minutes and the play wasn't even reviewed. If you remember the game this is where the camera showed Hasslebeck asking the official "what the fuck is going on here?". It was pretty easy to read his lips on that one.

[HaemishM]

D-Jack started like he was going to have a big day, but he couldn't make it happen on the long ball.

Except for the two touchdowns he had that were negated by shitty officiating. Well I should say one negated and one questionable.

The interference call he got was bullshit, I'll give you that one. But as a professional, you suck it up and come back and make a play the next time. They didn't.

I'm still not positive on the rule. The second was where he was running down the sidelines, catches the ball cleanly, left foot down, right foot kicks the pylon and then goes down out of bounds. I always thought a foot hitting a pylon was the same as a foot landing on the field as the pylon is considered turf.

I think the pylon is only considered in-bounds if the BALL hits it, not his foot. Madden and Michaels looked at it one time, and neither of them said anything about it being inbounds for the purpose of being a catch. The only instance I've ever seen of the pylon being something is if a ball carrier who already had possession tries to stick it in; if he gets it on the in-bounds side of the pylon, or touches the pylon, it's a TD.

[UD_Delt]

I just can't find enough detail of the specific situation.

For example I found the following on NFL.com as a 2002 rule change:

# A player no longer can be ruled out of bounds when he touches a pylon unless he already touched the boundary line.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/5153800

There's no mention of the original rule or if this is a sub-rule to something else though.

The other mention of this rule change is even less clear:

A player who touches a pylon remains in-bounds until any part of his body touches the ground out-of-bounds;

[HaemishM]

Sounds like it was a situation that just really didn't have much known precedent, and since his foot landed out of bounds after hitting the pylon, they just ruled him out of bounds and moved on. I would have thought someone would bring up a review if it needed to be reviewed, but the officiating was shitty.

[Paelos]

I believe the call on the pylon was right. It was one foot in, other foot goes out missing the pylon. Foot that was in hits the plyon. That's out of bounds.

[El Gallo]

I'm hardly unbiased (one for the thumb baby), but I can't help necroposting now that I've gotten in from out of town.  Super bowl weekend in Vegas is pretty fun, by the way.   

There is an explanation of the pylon rule, the non-horse collar, and a few other calls that were made during the game here.  http://www.insidefootball.com/int/askofficial.html  Some of the things people are whining about are just silly (the hold on the punt return where the guy had a fistful of jersey), but there were a lot of extremely close calls in this game.  The offensive PI call seemed pretty blatant to me, and seemed like a call that non-superstar WRs get all the time (that's BS, but it's BS when the call isn't made on a star, not when it is on a chump).

I saw a couple pictures that I thought were illuminating on the Roethlisburger touchdown and the Locklear hold:



I don't think anyone can say that this was surely a TD or surely not a TD.  It looks like a TD in that picture, but it wasn't taken directly on the goal line (for some dumbass reason, the NFL does not place cameras on the goal lines).  This is the kind of thing that makes me happy I'm not a ref; I really can't imagine a closer call.

The hold looks like a hold, especially considering that Locklear was badly beaten yet again and hooked to prevent an obvious sack.  There have been suggestions that he was warned prior to this play by the official.  The guy at fault here was Hassleback, who didn't mix up his snap count even though it had been read on both the plays prior to this (as well as this one).  ABC never played the reverse angle, and Madden is functionally retarded.




The Hassleback low tackle call was a good call, it's just a horrible, horrible rule.  "You can't go low through a blocker to make a tackle on a return" is a new rule that was called against the Steelers in the Colts playoff game, and I've seen it in a few other games this season.  The NFL supposedly is going to change this rule in the offseason because it's stupid as hell.

There were also some big calls that went against the Steelers.  In the first quarter, Stevens caught a ball, took two steps, turned, got levelled and dropped the ball.  Nobody is around for a very long stretch except Farrior and Polomalu, but the refs blew it dead, costing the Steelers a ton of field position.  In the second, Ward was hit helmet-to-helmet while being tackled at the sideline near midfield.  Shortly thereafter, Roethlisburger vomits up his wobbly interception/punt which wouldn't have been the call from the 35.  That's probably 3 points right there.  In the third, when R'burger screws the pooch again by tossing up in INT instead of lobbing the ball to the wide open guy in the corner for an 18 point lead, he is obliterated by a block from behind square between the shoulders when he ran to attempt a tackle, a non-call that handed the Seahawks about 50 yards.   

This was a horrible, horrible game.  The Steelers were awful, particularly R'burger with the unforced errors at every turn.  He seemed nervous and the rest of the team seemed like they believed they'd win just by showing up.  Too bad the Colts-Steelers game wasn't the actual Super Bowl.  I was still screaming my lungs out for Bettis, for the last 12 years of frustration (6 AFC championship games, 1 ring finally!) and, of course, for the Steelers/under parley :)

How long until training camp?  Because the Pens and Pirates are done already.

[Margalis]

The NFL rules are an abomination. They are just so complicated it's insane. They really need to strip things down to something more common sense. All this stuff about tuck rules and ground causing fumbles and 'football moves' are clear as mud.

[Strazos]

One reason I've never been fond of football - it's too fucking technical. Shit like tuck rules, illegal formation, ineligable recievers...wtf, just let the players play.

[Paelos]

The NFL rules need to be changed if only to keep the punt returns open for...an actual return. Throwing a flag on a block that had nothing to do with the play if patently ridiculous, and the fact that long returns are expected to have flags are an indicator.

[Strazos]

Shit like illegal block behind the play....in football, if you're behind the play, you're not relevant. Stuff like facemask and roughing keep in, but holding? pfft

[UD_Delt]

That ask the offical site is funny. The dude is an official being paid by the NFL. Of couse he's going to side with the NFL as it's his ass on the line if he doesn't. They fine players for disputing calls in the NFL, what do you think would happen if an actual official disputed a call.

I can tell you that I watched the game with 7 other officials and not a single person thought that this call was incorrect. It was clear to all of us that Jackson had not just "felt" for the defender but that by putting his arm out and pushing however slightly, he had created the space necessary for him to catch the pass.

LoL... the fact that the defender was on his heels created the seperation not D. Jackson's "push-off". This guy is a homer of the nth degree.

What a pointless website to point to for a controversy.

By the way I still don't see the holding in those stills. In the first he looks beat and is falling down not "wrapping" or "hooking" and in the second it's called blocking.

[HaemishM]

The NFL rules need to be changed if only to keep the punt returns open for...an actual return. Throwing a flag on a block that had nothing to do with the play if patently ridiculous, and the fact that long returns are expected to have flags are an indicator.

Yeah, this is one of my pet peeves this season. I swear there were an average of about 1-2 punts this year per game that were not called back for a hold or the idiotic illegal block in the back rule. I hate the latter rule. Essentially is a guy puts one finger on another guy's back, whether it does anything to change the "blocked" guys direction or not, it's a penalty, wiping out the return and holding up the game. Fuck that noise, let them play. Blocks in the back that SHOULD be called are mostly obvious.

[Strazos]

By the way I still don't see the holding in those stills. In the first he looks beat and is falling down not "wrapping" or "hooking" and in the second it's called blocking.

He's beat and is hanging on the jersey in both shots. At least the NHL gets that rule mostly right now.

[kaid]

under the current rules its almost impossible to not have some blocks in the back when a run starts going up field fast. The kicking team players will turn quickly to try to go towards the guy with the ball and this will almost always cause at least one guy to stay blocking a hair to long.

I can see a rule for flagrant blocks in the back which can be damaging but are also VERY obvious.

[Nebu]

I don't think that the rules are the problem  It's the speed of the game that makes enforcing the rules the problem.  Things happen so fast on a football field that making a solid judgement call is a difficult affair.  While I often bitch about referee calls myself, I do realize that referees have a very difficult job. 

I happen to like many of the recent rule additions.  As an athlete, your health is all you have.  While the interpretation of the rules can occasionally interfere with the flow of a game, their existence can minimize some of the more hazardous aspects of the game.  If you keep in mind that some of the shots that professionals bounce back from would be enough to hospitalize a normal adult, it helps you understand the spirit of the rule.   

[Kenrick]

I don't think that the rules are the problem  It's the speed of the game that makes enforcing the rules the problem.  Things happen so fast on a football field that making a solid judgement call is a difficult affair. 

Now multiply that by 10,000 and you have basketball.

[Strazos]

Basketball has to be THE wussiest "contact" sport there is. Yao Ming was out for what, like 10 games with a hurt toe? With the exception of a few players, NBA players are fucking babies.

[kaid]

I won't diss toe injuries. You can do some nasty things to your toes that would make even walking very difficult let alone doing basketball moves.

Frankly I would rather have somebody sitout than to take so many drugs to help play through the pain that they become addicted to pain meds.

A game is simply not worth a life destroying addiction.

kaid

[UD_Delt]

Basketball has to be THE wussiest "contact" sport there is. Yao Ming was out for what, like 10 games with a hurt toe? With the exception of a few players, NBA players are fucking babies.

I was personally impressed with Z. Ilgouskas. He actually had his foot completely reshaped to get through his foot problems of 2-3 years ago. Since then he hasn't missed a game because of foot problems. Then again he now has 2 completely different looking feet.

[WayAbvPar]

Basketball has to be THE wussiest "contact" sport there is. Yao Ming was out for what, like 10 games with a hurt toe? With the exception of a few players, NBA players are fucking babies.

I was personally impressed with Z. Ilgouskas. He actually had his foot completely reshaped to get through his foot problems of 2-3 years ago. Since then he hasn't missed a game because of foot problems. Then again he now has 2 completely different looking feet.

The rest of him is so freakin' ugly that no one will ever notice his feet.

[Strazos]

It's not even about taking drugs. Football and Hockey players play through a LOT more pain and injury than basketball players.

[Margalis]

Basketball and baseball have some arcane rules but they rarely matter. In football the wacky rules seem to come up all the damn time.

[Paelos]

Basketball and baseball have some arcane rules but they rarely matter. In football the wacky rules seem to come up all the damn time.

Baseball's so old it's got rules about who's able to pinch hit during a German Bomber attack.

[El Gallo]

My favorite baseball rule is the "you can run to first if the catcher drops the third strike" rule.  That's the kind of shit we'd make up playing whiffleball in the back yard after elementary school.

Also, NBA officiating sucks monkey balls because the stars get obscenely preferential treatment. 

[Signe]

I swear, ice hockey players are too stupid to feel pain.  Every hockey player I've met seems to have a wind tunnel between their ears.  A company I worked for used to manage the personal affairs of Rick Tocchet, among others.  God, he was a silly bit of fluff.    His recent behaviour has done nothing to prove me wrong.

No offense to any professional dumbasses hockey players who may peruse this forum. 

[Furiously]

I swear, ice hockey players are too stupid to feel pain.  Every hockey player I've met seems to have a wind tunnel between their ears.  A company I worked for used to manage the personal affairs of Rick Tocchet, among others.  God, he was a silly bit of fluff.    His recent behaviour has done nothing to prove me wrong.

No offense to any professional dumbasses hockey players who may peruse this forum. 

I lived next to a NHL player in college. It was great - he was never home and he left his hot tub running all the time.

[WayAbvPar]

I forgot about that! It was Bill Ranford, wasn't it?

[Furiously]

Because he also left his jetskis and motorboat out I refuse to acknowledge who it was.

[Strazos]

There's plenty of intelligent people in hockey, just like any other sport. Pointing to someone like Tocchet is pretty fucking weak.

[Signe]

There's plenty of intelligent people in hockey, just like any other sport. Pointing to someone like Tocchet is pretty fucking weak.

No, you're weak.  In fact you're WEAK SAUCE!