Cruiser layout

[squirrel]

I know this has been covered but damn this game can be intimidating for a noob. Anyway am flying a caracal now and have it outfitted with bare minimum:

3x Assault Launchers with Bloodclaws
2x Heavy Launchers with Thunder bolts or Havocs

1x 10 MN AB (training up for MWD)

2x Shield rechargers

Am at IV/V in most caldari type skills - missile ops, standard missiles, frig IV, cruiser III, targeting IV...am kinda lost at what to get next. I'm thinking target painters and webbers after MWD's? Thoughts?

[Merusk]

Ok first caviat: All the numbers I'm quoting are based off my own skills, so you might not be able to fit all this.  You definatly won't see the same results since I've got Eng V.

You definatly want some hardeners.  2 Invuln 2's are going to raise your EM resist from its current 0 to around 40% as well as boosting all your other resists.  Don't worry about the target painter because you're carrying standard missiles, which work fine against Frigates.  Painters just make sigs bigger so you can hit them easier with guns, or so your missile blast radius hits smaller ships if you're using bigger missiles.

I'd drop shield extenders rather than rechargers into your ship.  Even with double boosters like you've got your shields will take about 5-mins to fully recharge and you've only got about 1400 shield HP.  Instead you could fit a large shield extender and up your hps to about 3100 increasing your survivability MUCH more than that trickle of a recharge.  Then drop-in a booster so you can heal-up the shields faster between combats.

The lows I'd drop 2 power diagnostic systems.  They boost powercore shield hps, shield recharge and cap size all fairly small amounts, but every bit helps.  If you can fit a Power Diagnostic System I (instead of basic) you'll up your shield HPs to about 3400,  Your cap size will increase about 8% (mine went from 935 to 1011)

[squirrel]

I'd drop shield extenders rather than rechargers into your ship.  Even with double boosters like you've got your shields will take about 5-mins to fully recharge and you've only got about 1400 shield HP.  Instead you could fit a large shield extender and up your hps to about 3100 increasing your survivability MUCH more than that trickle of a recharge.  Then drop-in a booster so you can heal-up the shields faster between combats.

Awesome thanks Merusk. I was kind of unclear on how extenders vs. rechargers worked. That sounds like a better plan that i can execute pretty quickly. Any thoughts on AB vs. MWD? I know MWD doesn't work in deadspace for missions but for general ratting?

[5150]

Yeah ditch the rechargers and get extenders/hardeners/boosters

Depending on what your ratting you might want to swap out one of the assaults for another heavy (I dont seem to have a problem hitting NPC frigates with heavies, plus the range is better)

Bear in mind a MWD will increase your ships signature and make it easier to hit

[squirrel]

Thanks all - back in my kestrel - Caracal got ganked and podded so time to make some more ISK. But i'll be back in my cruiser pretty quick :)

[Merusk]

(I dont seem to have a problem hitting NPC frigates with heavies, plus the range is better)

It's not a problem with hitting them, as missiles always hit.  You just don't do full damage to a smaller ship with a larger misisle.  Like Strazos mentioned earlier he was blasting frigs with heavies and only doing like 20-35 damage.  Target painters help at that point, because they make the frigate signature "bigger" so more of the missile blast radius hits it.  It's a gameplay balance thing, rather than a reality thing.

 Missiles Used to hit frigs for full damage, which was just sick if you got hit with a cruise or torpedo.. of course with the T2 missiles they introduced 'precision' weapons, so they're back to doing that kind of damage without the extra EW mods.

[Strazos]

My current Caracal layout is as such:

High: 5 normal Heavy Launchers. They're all usually loaded with Kinetic missiles (due to the Caracal kinetic dmg bonuses), though I can swap to Thermal to experiment.  You might think I have a problem with normal NPC frigates, until....

Medium: 2 Target Painters. Even with both painters going on a single frigate, my missiles don't do full damage.....but they do plenty to a frigate. Most frigates go down in 1-2 volleys. The frigates that Can give problems are PC frigate-class ships, especially with Interceptors. Even so, it really depends on how they have their resists set up. I was pummeling a Wolf Minmatar assault ship, but was absolutely gimped against a Caldari interceptor (Crow?). I didn't bother to try Thermal on the Inty.

1 T2 medium shield booster. Heals 90+ shield points per cycle.

1 Large shield extender. This puts my shields above 2800, and has not been fully broken yet. I dunno how Merusk is getting 3100+...better skills maybe, or a rare module.

This last slot I have been playing around with, along with one of the target painter slots. Currently, I have an anti-Radar ECM unit in, for use against the many Amarr vessels in the Neesher area. I also have tried playing around with a webber, but I haven't seen any real point in using it yet.

The thing about shield hardeners and stuff like that is that, unless they are passive, they have to be activated - this leeches your cap, which I try to avoid. Also, they tend to be resource hogs when equipped.

Low: I'm thinking I have a CPU module and a Power Diagnostic unit, I cannot be certain at this time (been playing around with modules).

Last I checked, both my CPU and Powercore capacities were at 95% usage.

I personally just deal with the reduced frigate damage in lieu of being able to obliterate capital ships from extreme ranges.

Also, I won't ever be equipping an AB/MWD on my Caracal....I think my ship has more survivability through it's firepower/tanking ability. Also, they become useless if you get NOS'ed, which is pretty common in PVP encounters.

[Merusk]

My Engineering Skills:

Engineering       
 Energy Emission Systems   3->4   0%   2 days, 11 hours, 25 mins, 4 secs 
 Energy Grid Upgrades   3->4   0%   2 days, 11 hours, 25 mins, 4 secs 
 Energy Management   2->3   1%   15 hours, 39 mins, 28 secs 
 Energy Systems Operation   3->4   0%   1 days, 5 hours, 42 mins, 32 secs 
 Engineering   5   100%   training complete 
 Shield Compensation   2->3   0%   10 hours, 30 mins, 11 secs 
 Shield Management   3->4   0%   3 days, 17 hours, 7 mins, 36 secs 
 Shield Operation   3->4   0%   1 days, 5 hours, 42 mins, 32 secs 
 Shield Upgrades   3->4   0%   2 days, 11 hours, 25 mins, 4 secs 
 Tactical Shield Manipulation   3->4   0%   4 days, 22 hours, 50 mins, 5 secs 

Yes I'm too lazy to cut out all the training time garbage.

[Llyse]

I'm wondering about this layout

5 High
3 Heavy missile launchers
2 Assault missile launchers

5 Med
Medium shield extender (Large if I could get it)
Target Painter
10MN AB (is micro warp drive worth it on a caracal? how bad does the cap malus hurt?)
Medium shield booster ( should I use an EM hardener instead? don't have the skills yet)
stasis webifier (It seems to be only good against frigates, but I'm not sure what else to use)

2 Low
Ballistic Control System
Power Diagnostic

[Viin]

Looks good to me. The only thing I might do is swap out the webifier with a Cap Battery to give you a little more room with your med shield recharger.

I'd also stick with the AB as the MWD will take a lot of cap and eat up more of your power/cpu - and you may not be able to hold what you are currently planning on holding. The assault launchers use light missiles, so those are good for frigates. Your target painter will also help get more damage out of your heavies.

[Strazos]

I personally don't use assault launchers, but you want to fit different things, so I guess you have to.

Also, a webber on a missile boat is somewhat pointless if you're not also scramming (or have smoeone to do it for you).

[Yoru]

That's a decent starter layout, but when you start going up against battlecruisers in 0.2/0.1 space (the guys with 175k+ bounties), you'll need more heavy launchers. The battlecruisers have a wicked tank and if your skills are lacking you'll need all 5 slots filled with heavies in order to break 'em.

Once you have Guided Missile Precision, Target Navigation Prediction, Heavy Missiles and Cruiser at 3, you can probably use fewer heavy racks, but by that time you're absolutely devastating any cruiser or frigate you come across; the only thing aside from a battleship that'll give you trouble is an interceptor, and that's mostly a matter of who can outtank the other.

[Der Helm]

After selling a nice +1 mem implant from a storyline mission, I bought myself a cheap minmatar cruiser (scythe ?(sp???)), in the hope that it will speed up my rat killing while running mission.
Because those missions consist solely of frigates and drones, I equipped it with medium short range autocannons. They rip the little ones to shreds, when they hit.

IF they hit. The tracking seems to be so bad, that I fire almost 20 to 30 salvos against one enemy to score a single hit. What can be done about that ? I am thinking about fitting a webber, to slow those little pests down or about switching to artillery, to kill them from long distances while the lateral movement is minimal.

Which solution would work out better and would it work in level II missions as well (no idea what they will put me up against)

[Strazos]

Huh, i would think autocannons would have the tracking for that.

[Der Helm]

Huh, i would think autocannons would have the tracking for that.

So would I. But those little 2k bounty pirates are FAST.

[5150]

Huh, i would think autocannons would have the tracking for that.

So would I. But those little 2k bounty pirates are FAST.

Did I see you mention that you put Medium auto's on it

If you know youre only fighting Frigates and small drones youre better off putting small turrets on

I've got Gunnery 5 and Medium turret 3 and I still miss frigates more than I hit when using mediums (unless they are moving directly towards or away in which case there no tracking required)

A webber will help, a target painter might, training up more gunnery skills might also help - but the easiest way is to either fit all smalls (if only encountering frigates) an assault launcher or 2 (if you can) or a single small with mediums if you are also fighting cruisers (which you occasionally get in a level 2 mission)

[Merusk]

I'm of the opinion that any ship using Autocannons needs a webber.  Possibly even two so you can either really slow those bastards down or target two at once.

[Der Helm]

If you know youre only fighting Frigates and small drones youre better off putting small turrets on

I've got Gunnery 5 and Medium turret 3 and I still miss frigates more than I hit when using mediums (unless they are moving directly towards or away in which case there no tracking required)

A webber will help, a target painter might, training up more gunnery skills might also help - but the easiest way is to either fit all smalls (if only encountering frigates) an assault launcher or 2 (if you can) or a single small with mediums if you are also fighting cruisers (which you occasionally get in a level 2 mission)

I will try all three and see which I like the most.

Could anyone enlighten me, what I will be up against in level II missions ? Are they possible in a scythe ?

[Reg]

Most level 2s should be doable in a Scythe bu there are a couple of very difficult ones you'll need to watch out for. You didn't really pick the best cruiser for doing ratting. The Scythe is an absolutely awesome mining cruiser though. If you're not into mining at all it'd be worth thinking about selling off the Scythe and choosing one of the other cruisers available to you.

The advice about equipping a couple of small guns to use on small frigates and drones is good. Plus it will leave you with lots of extra cap and grid to use for other things.

[Hoax]

Versus small ships you need:

-drones
-webber
-painter
-long range
-small guns

Any should help, look at your ship and what you are doing with it to decide what is most practical.

[Der Helm]

Most level 2s should be doable in a Scythe bu there are a couple of very difficult ones you'll need to watch out for. You didn't really pick the best cruiser for doing ratting. The Scythe is an absolutely awesome mining cruiser though. If you're not into mining at all it'd be worth thinking about selling off the Scythe and choosing one of the other cruisers available to you.

The advice about equipping a couple of small guns to use on small frigates and drones is good. Plus it will leave you with lots of extra cap and grid to use for other things.

I will try level II missions then, after I got my hands on some decent equipment. I picked the cruiser because I could, but I am thinking about getting a better one.

I need quite a bit of cash to get the skill for assault ships and a nice wolf, if I upgrade my cruiser on the way depends on the payout on level II missions.  :-D

[WayAbvPar]

Webber + target painter makes frigates go pop in a big hurry. I just did Silence the Informant (the level II with about 25 missile frigates) last night in my Rupture- 4x 425mm ACs, Med Nos, and named light missile in highs, AB, target painter and webber in mids. I can really tell the difference with the webber- without it, the transversal velocity was often around 500 m/s. When I turn the web on, it goes to ~80 m/s. 5 seconds later there is a small explosion and I go on to the next target  :-D

Also- as noted above, the Scythe is more of a miner than a ratter. I need one for my alt, so I would be glad to buy it off you if you want to trade up to a Rupture.

[gimpyone]

bellicose is pretty cheap.  Scythe is a mining boat.

[dwindlehop]

Is there a display someplace that shows the transversal? I've been looking for that.

[Yoru]

It's one of the options in the overview columns list, I believe.

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah- Overview option.

[dwindlehop]

Awesome. Guess I need to start making different overview presets.

[Yegolev]

Awesome. Guess I need to start making different overview presets.

Yes.  I have one for mining and one for combat... I need to make another one or three, I think.

[5150]

Egghead turret tracking stuff can be found here

http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g26.asp