The Thread of Aggression

[Yoru]

Sometimes we get jumped in lowsec. Sometimes we get blown up in lowsec. Here's a nice friendly thread to list off anyone who attacks us. I'll be shooting anyone we don't go blue with that's listed in this thread.

I'll go first.

2006.02.01 06:42

Victim: Yaeru
Alliance: None
Corp: F13
Destroyed: Osprey
System: Arzi
Security: 0.1

Involved parties:

Name: The Bob (laid the final blow)
Security: 0.8
Alliance: None
Corp: Blood Inquisition
Ship: Falcon
Weapon: Thunderbolt Heavy Missile

Destroyed items:

Medium Shield Booster I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I
Miner II
Co-Processor I

Edit: Cadwin/gimpyone reached a NAP agreement with this corp tonight. Do not shoot. But remember. I'mma go pour out a 40 for my poor osprey, a martyr in the name of peace.

Edit edit: See below. No Nap! Keeeeeeeel them.

[gimpyone]

Wrong Corp.  There is no nap between us.  Blast away.

[Viin]

The guy hal, caadwin, and I got owned by is part of one of the corps we have a NAP with now... sigh. I have 3 kill letters from that guy, but he only took one cruiser and lost his faction-specific cruiser. Ha!

 

[squirrel]

Welp was jumped and podded by Cro Ramel member of Huff Technologies on my way out of Neesh tonite. Was partially my fault - was autopilot and didn't realize i was under attack until shields were 50%. Destroyed my Caracal and podded me costing me about 50,000 skill points - doh. Upgrade your clone often!

His bounty is over 24Million ISK. No idea what he was flying - i was busy trying to jump.

[Viin]

That sucks.     We'd probably have a hard time taking him down 'cause I bet he's in a battleship. But we could always zerg him with kestrels!

[squirrel]

Yeah sucks in a way - but was only a 4 mil cruiser and i got 3.5 mil insurance back so not a biggie. And it was kind of a fun rush trying to get away. Like in Shadowbane when you were carrying a rune and someone jumped you - even if you lose it's fun :)

[Der Helm]

even if you lose it's fun :)

So it IS fun to be the victim
 

[Yegolev]

even if you lose it's fun :)

So it IS fun to be the victim
 

It isn't fun to be the victim, however it is a lot of fun to get some revenge.  That is the fundamental difference that I get from EVE versus, say, UO: I don't feel like I am completely helpless.  I know my limits and their limits (more or less), and I am confident that I could quickly recover from a podding and cause some grief in return.  It's all about the CYA.  Yeah, maybe I could have done that in UO, too, but I was very young in RL /played.  And UO sucked.

[5150]

even if you lose it's fun :)

So it IS fun to be the victim
 

It isn't fun to be the victim, however it is a lot of fun to get some revenge.  That is the fundamental difference that I get from EVE versus, say, UO: I don't feel like I am completely helpless.  I know my limits and their limits (more or less), and I am confident that I could quickly recover from a podding and cause some grief in return.  It's all about the CYA.  Yeah, maybe I could have done that in UO, too, but I was very young in RL /played.  And UO sucked.

So how do you get back at the guy flying a ship classes above what you are capable of flying?

[Hoax]

Depends on his setup, but Bships are far from invincible versus other "classes".

[squirrel]

even if you lose it's fun :)

So it IS fun to be the victim
 

Nah, being a victim sucks. But see my definition of victim is someone who hasn't consented to the situation. Noone likes being a victim. Being defeated is different. I knew i was jumping through low-sec space. I wasn't paying attention - although even had i been he woulda owned me - i was getting hit for 500+ per shot. But it was consensual - i took a risk, it didn't pan out, and i got the rush of trying to make it work. Very different from being victimized.

[Yegolev]

So how do you get back at the guy flying a ship classes above what you are capable of flying?

Maybe I am completely helpless, but I don't feel that way.  Or rather... I didn't!  Boo-hoo-hoo!

Seriously, though, it would just take time and it would not necessarily have to be a podding in return.  Myself, I don't have the combat skills to do much of a violent nature at the moment, but I can put notes on the guy and his corp for later, or hire some mercs if I save up enough ISK, or spread lies about him in chat.  I'm still a n00b but I'm drinking milk.  It's a significant improvement in my mind that I would not be put back at Square One if tonight I lost my new cruiser with the drones, fittings and cargo, and was podded on top of it.  It would be irritating, certainly, but not gamebreaking.

[Yegolev]

Depends on his setup, but Bships are far from invincible versus other "classes".

One day I would definitely like to try the "fast and close orbit" thing.

[squirrel]

Depends on his setup, but Bships are far from invincible versus other "classes".

One day I would definitely like to try the "fast and close orbit" thing.

Heh am planning on it sooner than later. My new plan is a mission cruiser to make $ for a while and some disposable frigates that i can gang rape assholes with...

[Der Helm]

One day I would definitely like to try the "fast and close orbit" thing.

How fast and close is "fast and close" anyway ?

on my rifter with AB I get to about 600-700 m/s (I think)

[WayAbvPar]

It works wonders against cruisers- I soloed 2 175k bounty cruisers last night in Oguser with my Rifter. Took me 20 minutes and a shitton of ammo, but I did it relatively easily. Just make sure you have an armor repairer or shield booster or something- when they hit, they can do a lot of damage. They just don't hit very often.

Caldari are still a problem- volleys of no miss missiles are bad times.

[Yegolev]

One day I would definitely like to try the "fast and close orbit" thing.

How fast and close is "fast and close" anyway ?

on my rifter with AB I get to about 600-700 m/s (I think)

My Atron hot-rod can currently do 998m/s with the 1MW AB and mount two small hybrid plus civ shield repair.  I just need some high-dmg ammo (uranium?) and a way to get close.  Close would be less than 1km, I guess.

[Raging Turtle]

My new plan is a mission cruiser to make $ for a while and some disposable frigates that i can gang rape assholes with...

Wise man say:  Choose your metaphors carefully

[Furiously]

Drones have to make the frig/assault frig close and spray system difficult.

Or is it standard to have 5 frigs and have 2 of them set up to tackle, 2 set up to damage and 1 set up to damage/take out drones?

[Alkiera]

One day I would definitely like to try the "fast and close orbit" thing.

How fast and close is "fast and close" anyway ?

on my rifter with AB I get to about 600-700 m/s (I think)

My Atron hot-rod can currently do 998m/s with the 1MW AB and mount two small hybrid plus civ shield repair.  I just need some high-dmg ammo (uranium?) and a way to get close.  Close would be less than 1km, I guess.

According to what I can get out of the turret tracking thing, it depends a great deal on what you can achieve for a 'transverse velocity'.  It amounts to 'can you orbit faster than the turret'.  Depending on just how fast you can go, you should be able to orbit as far out as 3-5 km and still be unhitable unless they have particularly fast tracking guns.  However, you'll be hard-pressed to outrun a missile.  non-rocket missiles run around 3,750 m/s, and can get faster with skills, certain ships, etc.  ECM is probably a good idea, but anyone expecting PvP may well have FoF missiles...  FoF missiles look like the bane of the 'tight orbit' fighter.  Maybe defender rockets, but that'll mess up your orbit, from what I hear.  And being that close, you won't have that much time, and every defender you mount is one less gun to be wearing down the enemy with.

It's possible.  Not easy, but possible.  Definately a case where you want to 'know your enemy'.

Alkiera

[Hoax]

It was a semi-intentional risk on my part, what we learned:

He uses Mojo Torps (450em damage base), he had a webber and a scrambler.  Ok that is all we learned, although I'm betting there was a shield tank as well.

Victim: Elseix
Alliance: None
Corp: F13
Destroyed: Prophecy
System: Arzi
Security: 0.1

Involved parties:

Name: The Bob (laid the final blow)
Security: -1.1
Alliance: None
Corp: Blood Inquisition
Ship: Raven
Weapon: Mjolnir Torpedo

Name: Blood Converter / Blood Raiders

Anyways I think this corp is definitely the biggest problem in the area, they do have other members who I have seen around from time to time.  But I haven't seen any characters whose employment history and/or bounty didn't make me think they could fly a battleship.

[Strazos]

I'm wondering how he was able to hit you with a slow, dummy-fire torpedo.

[Merusk]

The Prophecy is a Battlecruiser. Equally slow and large with a big EM hole in the shields. Hitting him with a torpedo wasn't a problem.

Ow though, downed your BC that sucks hard. When did this happen/ (You all seem to get on and play so much later than I can be around.)

[Hoax]

Somebody hasn't seen my Prophecy  :-D, without an AB or MWD online it tops out at 172m/s and it is as agile as a cinderblock.

I did manage to tank him for quite a long time his torps were only doing ~130 a hit against my uber EM resist.  But I really screwed up on several levels.

a) I shouldn't have warped in, Yaeru had given the call to flee, but I really wanted to see this guy's Raven.
b) Once I did warp in I didn't notify them to come back until he was almost under my guns, I wonder if they had been there when I was able to hit him if we could have worried him enough to have him pull out
c) When I did warp in I came in too close, with my setup I would have been much better served warping in at 60 but I didn't want to end up watching something bad happen to one of the cruisers while I chugged into range (which is about 40).
d) I reacted too slowly to him trying to close with me, as my setup can't hit a barn once they close under 8,000 I totally forgot I had a webber of my own.
e) I might as well have launched my 3 drones, I just didn't for some reason...
f) I got Caad's Rupture blown up, I feel bad about that.

What I learned in terms of fitting:

My new setup is going to be:
5xHvy Beams w/ either a NoS or a Smart Bomb in the final high slot.  (I was using rockets but defender missiles do jack and shit versus torps as far as I could tell the explosions were too big to figure out what had been hit).

2xCap Regens w/ either Webber, MWD, AB or Painter in the final slot, at that time I had one Regen (overkill for pve) a painter and a webber.  

The low slots will stay the same, as they are my tank, although once I get my weapons upgrades to 4 and upgrade all my modules from basic I think I can fit everything without using a low on +10% powergrid (that is my new goal at least) allowing me to equip a 3rd hardener just for pvp purposes.

Once we have a bship (which is going to be a Raven I hear) flying with us I fully intend to do some testing and training as it is by far the most popular pvp battleship and I'll adjust my setup according to the results.

[Merusk]

Painful lessons.

I'd drop in a NOS or even 2. Won't help much to down the Ravens' weapons, but it's a Caldari so he's probably shield tanking.  Plus it'll help keep your Cap up since you're using lasers.

Yeah, Raven's the way to go all-around with Battleships, IMO.  It's a missle boat with 6 launchers.  Missiles have NO miss rate, no range penalties, and even if your opponent is using defenders he's only knocking down his own offense while eliminating only 1/6 of yours for every defender slotted.  That whole "goddamn missles are overpowered" thing again.

[Strazos]

Couldn't you try jamming their radar so that they must get closer in order to launch?

Also, keep in mind that missile damage is very consistent - ie no Critical Hits.

Also, keep in mind that missile boats are very Swarmable with smaller ships.

[Alkiera]

Couldn't you try jamming their radar so that they must get closer in order to launch?

This is a good idea.  Jaming is good.  Make sure you're using the right type, tho, different ships use different systems(Lader, Radar, Gravemetric, etc)

Also, keep in mind that missile damage is very consistent - ie no Critical Hits.

Guns crit .8-1% of the time... They miss more frequently than that.  A crit is 3x damage, iirc, so 1% crit makes up for 2% worth of misses.  I'd guess in actual combat situations, most people miss more than 2%.  I'd rather have non-missing missiles.

Also, keep in mind that missile boats are very Swarmable with smaller ships.

For people with the right build, yes.  If you can't exceed 4km/s orbiting, you're just going to be a little annoying.  It's possible to hit ~7k apparently, with the right skills and a nicely equipped interceptor... But a missile travels 3,750 m/s, the explosion travels 2km/s.  They're not easy to avoid.

Alkiera

[Hoax]

Jamming would have been awesome, because he would have had to switch to FoF cruise missiles which would be about a 50% reduction in damage (from 450 w/ the torps to 225 for the cruise) there is a possibility he couldn't have broken my tank if that was the case.  Although with only one cap regen I would have been forced to not fire all 6 turrets (I think I can fire 2-4 indefinately with one regen, armor rep and one hardener going).

[Yoru]

Yes, he was shield tanking. I was slamming him with everything I had (5xkinetic heavies souped up with an active Ballistic Control System I in a Caracal) and it was just about holding his tank steady. If I had EM missiles, they probably would have slowly broken his tank, but then faltered on the armor.

I'll be focussing on getting my Raven up, running and seaworthy now.  Payback's gonna be a bitch. 

[Alkiera]

Yes, he was shield tanking. I was slamming him with everything I had (5xkinetic heavies souped up with an active Ballistic Control System I in a Caracal) and it was just about holding his tank steady. If I had EM missiles, they probably would have slowly broken his tank, but then faltered on the armor.

I'll be focussing on getting my Raven up, running and seaworthy now.  Payback's gonna be a bitch. 

On my baby missile boat(Kestrel), I keep loaded a variety of missiles... the EM missiles just tear up shields like so much tissue paper. For armor, I generally use kinetic or explosive missiles, whatever I happen to have more of at the time.  My Navy agent keeps giving me more of them, so I load 'em up.  I really like the EM ones, tho.

Alkiera

[Merusk]

When is this guy hitting y'all? I'd love to help-out and have both my Wolf (Assault frigate)  and now my Rupture (Cruiser) in the area.  If I get the cash I might buy a second Battlecruiser, but I only have 66mil, not nearly enough padding for me to move on to that level of fighting in such an expensive ship.

[Yoru]

We were ratting, and I use kinetics exclusively for ratting due to the caracal's bonuses. I'll probably haul some EMs down for future skirmishes though.

Both times he's hit us, it's been later in the evening; this one was around 11 PMish, Pacific time (GMT-8).

[Merusk]

Yikes.. 2am local time. Good luck with all that then, that's all the help I can give ya.

[Strazos]

I use mainly Kinetic missiles, with a few spare Thermal. I find that even when I switch up vs NPC rats, the damage type seems to make little difference.

Also, keep in mind that missile boats are very Swarmable with smaller ships.

For people with the right build, yes. If you can't exceed 4km/s orbiting, you're just going to be a little annoying. It's possible to hit ~7k apparently, with the right skills and a nicely equipped interceptor... But a missile travels 3,750 m/s, the explosion travels 2km/s. They're not easy to avoid.

I'm thinking that even if you cannot totally exceed those speeds, going fast will reduce damage, due to the missiles having less of a direct hit upon you.

[Hoax]

The problem is if it is a 200+ damage missile hitting you and your in a frigate its not going to take many even at less then full hits to blast you out of the sky.  I think we could have won the 3v1 -made him warp out- with a bit more coordination and better play on my part, but its hard for me to say for sure, I think I was getting damage on his structure (his armor was gone before he came in-system) but I can't tell you for sure as I was more interested in tracking the cap use / damage I was taking.

EvE's pvp is nice because literally the skill comes from processing all the information comming at you and reacting intelligently, not just pure speed reflexes.  I was quite overwhelmed in that fight for the first minute or two and that cost me, by letting him close with me to where he wasn't even taking fire from my beams.

I'm thinking my new proph's loadout will be setup specifically to stand the best chance against cruiser+ sized targets, since the npc's are 0 threat in 0.1 to my tank (a 3 BC spawn only barely out damages my tank with a basic armor rep running and I'm still underskilled).