The New Server Problem

[Shockeye]

And I did not say you were ignorant, Sky.  I said you sound ignorant.  And you do.

He sounds cautious not ignorant. The reason you people want to move to the PVP server is to gank. If that's what you want to do, do it. Some people here know what most MMO PVP really boils down to and they want no part of it. I can't blame them. Would I enjoy ganking? You better believe it, but sooner or later someone would be higher than me and I would be ganked repeatedly. It's not really a cycle for fun, only for frustration.

[schild]

Shockeye, I want to move to a new server (PVP or not) because of the fresh database. While it may be a fun aspect of the game to be a ganksquad, I'm still in it far more for the clean slate. I'm all about fresh servers. I'm fairly certain Cheddar doesn't give a shit about being in a ganksquad.

[Nebu]

The clean slate is what I'm interested in also.  I have to side with Sky in saying that I played on the Zek servers in EQ and they were a cesspool of undesirables bent on getting their fun through the misery of others.   

I'll go with the majority here.  I just want some regular people to play with and I don't really care what server they settle on. On that note, is there any chance that we'll be able to field some groups in the future?  I've made a rogue, but am starting to think that playing a healing class may serve us better. 

[SuperPopTart]

This is not EQ1.  Can we at least wait to reserve judgement?  We do not have the information to get all worked up; we were having a discussion about possibly moving.

And I did not say you were ignorant, Sky.  I said you sound ignorant.  And you do.

This is not EQ 1, correct. It is EQ 2. And unfortunately, reserving judgement if you are a consumer of an MMOG that is the second in a line of product you are already used to is almost impossible.

[UD_Delt]

Shockeye, I want to move to a new server (PVP or not) because of the fresh database. While it may be a fun aspect of the game to be a ganksquad, I'm still in it far more for the clean slate. I'm all about fresh servers. I'm fairly certain Cheddar doesn't give a shit about being in a ganksquad.

I used to be the same way. In original EQ I ALWAYS server hopped. In EQ2 I have no desire to. I think it's a combination of things not neccessarily in this order:

1. Playing with people I know.
2. Being closer to the front-runners of the server.
3. No overcrowding and fast travel. I actually think this is the biggest factor. In EQ it was always frustrating to go to one of your favorite hunting grounds to find it already taken. You head to the next and it's take as well. You spend on hour finding somewhere to hunt and log off 30 minutes later. EQ2 with the instanced zones and whether it's less players, or just the larger zones, I haven't had the same problem. I've always had no problem finding somewhere to go hunt, or even that much of a problem finding a group with any of my characters.

I'm curious as to what the benefit of moving to the new server would be. You say fresh database but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that.

[HaemishM]

You know, I actually considered trying out EQ2 when they announced PVP servers (on PopTart's account, of course). Then I remembered:

1) Zoning + PVP = Ganking at the zone line
2) EQ's mechanics mean Level > All Followed Items > All except levels
3) It's EQ2

[Sky]

My point is that you guys can do whatever you want, of course, but I'm concerned for the integrity of Bat Country. Thus my comment about handing the reins to Soukyan, who is good people and seems to also want to stick to the current situation.

I also don't see the allure of a clean slate? What benefit would that be? I'm having a fine time in EQ2 despite the entirely random server we play on. I don't see how starting all over again would be more fun.

[Cheddar]

My point is that you guys can do whatever you want, of course, but I'm concerned for the integrity of Bat Country. Thus my comment about handing the reins to Soukyan, who is good people and seems to also want to stick to the current situation.

I also don't see the allure of a clean slate? What benefit would that be? I'm having a fine time in EQ2 despite the entirely random server we play on. I don't see how starting all over again would be more fun.

If we all move then the guild leadership will be handed to someone staying, along with lots of special treats and money.  But it is not definite that we are moving.  Hence our discussion on the possibility. 

Really I just want to join a gank squad and camp the server lines.  'Tis all.

[SuperPopTart]

You know, I actually considered trying out EQ2 when they announced PVP servers (on PopTart's account, of course). Then I remembered:

1) Zoning + PVP = Ganking at the zone line
2) EQ's mechanics mean Level > All Followed Items > All except levels
3) It's EQ2

You are this close to joining EQ 2. I just need to step up my working on you.

Muahaha.

I can feel a Haemcow logging into EQ soon.

[Der Helm]

- Yes, this server will attract the leet kiddies and you'll be surrounded by guys with names like ~-=Mastahplayah=-~

If it is open PvP and I can kill those people, I would pay to play in a heartbeat.

[Signe]

Give it your best shot, Pop.  I'd be thrilled and if we could actually get Cevik playing games again, it would make me cry happy tears. 

As for all that other stuff up there... I have no idea what you guys are arguing about.  Someone please explain it to me using numbers and examples.  If anyone has a webcam, please use posters and a pointy stick.

Thanks in advance.

[Miasma]

I also don't see the allure of a clean slate? What benefit would that be? I'm having a fine time in EQ2 despite the entirely random server we play on. I don't see how starting all over again would be more fun.

I'm thinking it's because EQ2 tracks how many items you have discovered.

I was reading the PvP board and I guess most people on the PvP servers are going evil, they seem to want to roleplay that too...  So if you do move you probably want to role on the Qeynos side if you want to be outnumbered.  Disturbingly, guilds from the old Zeks seem to be reforming or moving back from WoW for this.  I haven't seen the term "bluebie" or demands for a discord server(free for all, permadeath) in years.

Choice Quotes from the PvP Board

I did not make this thread title up:

The goal of player vs player combat is to win. NOTHING else matters at all. You might not agree with such things but I promice you the other guy comeing right at you while your attacking a mob solo agrees with such rules. Crying about it Screaming about how life is unfair in your channel of choice dosent solve anything.

Guild Name : Leet Street
 
Server: Non Exchange
 
Alignment: Evil
 
Recruitment: Things will change, but at first  open recruitment for all classes and races (we will weed out the evil from the truley evil with time) People who log on atleast 5 out of 7 days a week are preferred.
 
Type of Guild : Raunchy, Derty, And HArdcore We are here to Pk and be the best on the server, this means Getting All contested Mobs and doing all high end Raid Instances. Also  there will be a Dkp system implemented later on for high end raids.
 
Peek Playing Time : **EST**  We ask you Log on Whenever you are availble to see the Death of Queernos Fruitcakes.  Peek guild Time will be at night from 6pm EST on into the night.
 
Website: COMING SOON!
 
Discription/History: A Grp of Real Life and MMo based Friends Looking to be the most Leet, Mean, Feared,  Evil, Griefing, Trash Talking, Corpse Camping, Cut Throat, Steal your wife and kids, Murder the Queen, Rallosian , Badassed, PlayerKilling, Platinum Getting,  Fabled Wearing Sons of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es on the server, JOIN US DAY ONE

WHew i ran here from all the noobs that think they know what their talking about. Thank god for this tread. ....im going back out there fight off the noob for me :) No really why is it that the pvp area attract all the nooblets etc.?

Come join us, we will be using strongarm raketeering tactics to control the server and it's economy. If you want to do anything on the SEPvP server it will have to go through us. We will control pricing, contested mobs, hunting grounds etc .. and anyone who tries to go against us will be quietly put to rest at the bottom of the ocean in thundering steepes.
 
Either you are with us or against us so .. whats it gonna be ?
 
Questions or comments can be directed to my cousin Vinny over there.

~Paying to beta test since Nov. 04`

*Personal Attack Removed*

And finally, a typical Zekker from eq1 talking to himself.

[schild]

See, that's an argument against moving to that server. Yeesh.

[HaemishM]

Recruitment: Things will change, but at first  open recruitment for all classes and races (we will weed out the evil from the truley evil with time) People who log on atleast 5 out of 7 days a week are preferred.

You are the Diet Coke of Evil. You are expelled from the guild.

[MrHat]

lol, this whole thing reminds me of that scene from Austin Powers.

"I want to own a pet shop"
"An evil pet shop?"

In short, I"m pretty damn happy where we are.  I will be making a necro alt when 19 goes in (playing her currently anyways), that way I can have a few characters with some vitality to use up when I feel like it.

A pvp server will be tough for all the reasons listed above, I don't have the stamina I did last year around this time.  I do reserve judgement until we hear more about the way PvP will be handled.  For instance, if you can loot the kiddies, I'm all for a wizard invis ganksquad.

[UD_Delt]

In all seriousness and not trying to be irritating or anything but you all don't stand a chance if you try to move to this server...

In the first month the following 4 groups of people will be established on this server:

1. Botters - SOE has done a decent job of policing these and the most notorious on our server have been regularly caught and removed. But they usually don't find and ban them before they reach level 50. I'm talking full-fledged bots here not 2-boxers or some other such. There are tradeskill bots, hunter-bots, and harvest bots that are all fairly easy to find. Not going to go into more detail than that.

2. Shift Players - These are groups of people playing single accounts to ensure that account is on 24 hours a day and leveling. Most of the time each of the people will be able to at least 2-3 box so it only takes 2-3 people in each shift to keep a full group going 24/7.

3. General catasses and standard 2-boxers - This group will usually be leading the charge the first 48 hours or so before they finally burn out and need to take at least a few hours of rest. They'll compete but will be a step behind the other two groups although typically this group will eventually take over as the botters get banned and the shift players each return to one player/account over time.

4. Victims.

I'll give you all one guess into which group most of you will fall.

[Lt.Dan]

Dibs on the 8pm to 12pm EST shift.

[schild]

I guess I have the 12pm to 4am shift. So what you're saying is if we do this and we have one uber level 60 toon we can control the server? Seems simple enough. If you don't level during your four hour shift, we redirect your IP address to FoH. How's that sound? 

[UD_Delt]

I guess I have the 12pm to 4am shift. So what you're saying is if we do this and we have one uber level 60 toon we can control the server? Seems simple enough. If you don't level during your four hour shift, we redirect your IP address to FoH. How's that sound? 

Not exactly. But if you have a guild of 18 people, setup 3 shifts of 6 people each, you will quickly have a group of 6 level 60 chars to farm instances. Using the loot from those instances to then shift cash down to the other 12 who now start working on their own VERY well equipped characters.

[Sky]

See, that's an argument against moving to that server. Yeesh.

What the hell do you think I was referring to? Yet I sound ignorant. 

[schild]

I guess I have the 12pm to 4am shift. So what you're saying is if we do this and we have one uber level 60 toon we can control the server? Seems simple enough. If you don't level during your four hour shift, we redirect your IP address to FoH. How's that sound? 

Not exactly. But if you have a guild of 18 people, setup 3 shifts of 6 people each, you will quickly have a group of 6 level 60 chars to farm instances. Using the loot from those instances to then shift cash down to the other 12 who now start working on their own VERY well equipped characters.

I was being sarcastic.

What the hell do you think I was referring to? Yet I sound ignorant.

I still don't think EQ2 will be that bad. I could be totally wrong. But if PVP on one server is a success they'll open more. I hope, at the very least, every server gets an arena of some sort or at least a couple contested zones.

[Hoax]

Really I would actually consider playing EQ II if there was going to be an organized shift power-level grind going on.  Because anything short will leave you getting demolished by higher levels.

If you want to play on a poorly implemented/balanced pvp server with open pvp in all zones and zone lines you better be ready to catass2victory or else your just asking to destroy the merry little band you have going now.

Thinking otherwise is being willfully ignorant of the way pvp has ALWAYS gone in EQ, and no a game that has had no pvp for this entire time and now intends to patch it in WILL NOT BE BETTER.

Rule #1 of PvP:
-Games that are not designed from the ground up to have open pvp will never have great open pvp.
Rule #2 of PvP:
-Games that do not have pvp at launch can never patch pvp in without destroying balance typically pvp and pve balance.
Rule #3 of PvP:
-In Diku Clones the longer the grind to get to max level the higher the chance of anyone attempting to play will never make max level and quit and cry about griefers/pks/ganks for the rest of their lives to anyone who will listen.

[Soukyan]

I guess I have the 12pm to 4am shift. So what you're saying is if we do this and we have one uber level 60 toon we can control the server? Seems simple enough. If you don't level during your four hour shift, we redirect your IP address to FoH. How's that sound? 

Not exactly. But if you have a guild of 18 people, setup 3 shifts of 6 people each, you will quickly have a group of 6 level 60 chars to farm instances. Using the loot from those instances to then shift cash down to the other 12 who now start working on their own VERY well equipped characters.

I was being sarcastic.

What the hell do you think I was referring to? Yet I sound ignorant.

I still don't think EQ2 will be that bad. I could be totally wrong. But if PVP on one server is a success they'll open more. I hope, at the very least, every server gets an arena of some sort or at least a couple contested zones.

PvP Arenas are already in. Desert of Flames expansion added that. Granted, the arenas are instanced. I'm guessing you meant just a more general kind of sandbox type arena for whoever wants to wander in and fight, but just thought I'd mention that arena PvP is already available.

[Venkman]

I would like to try PvP in EQ2. I understand the desire to roll on a fresh server, to be part of the leaderboard of item discovery. Ergo, the desire for a new server with PvP.

However, I think it's the height of risk to do both at the same time in this brand new character system.

We all know how the PvP server is going to go in the short term. This isn't WoW which launched with them. This is an established game with more veterans than an expected influx of newbies. The pattern is more EQ/DAoC-esque, where the PvP servers will be crushed under the weight of new characters for about four weeks, and then slowly emptying out to some plateau later. What that plateau is depends largely on how much someone's Level is integrated into the combat formula. The more Level matters, the less people will be on the server. Someone may argue this assumption, and I'd like to be wrong.

Therefore, I'd go with Cheddar's suggestion and take a wait-and-see approach. Let's see if PvP isn't an abject trainwreck and then decide if a migration is worth it.

[Soukyan]

I would like to try PvP in EQ2. I understand the desire to roll on a fresh server, to be part of the leaderboard of item discovery. Ergo, the desire for a new server with PvP.

However, I think it's the height of risk to do both at the same time in this brand new character system.

We all know how the PvP server is going to go in the short term. This isn't WoW which launched with them. This is an established game with more veterans than an expected influx of newbies. The pattern is more EQ/DAoC-esque, where the PvP servers will be crushed under the weight of new characters for about four weeks, and then slowly emptying out to some plateau later. What that plateau is depends largely on how much someone's Level is integrated into the combat formula. The more Level matters, the less people will be on the server. Someone may argue this assumption, and I'd like to be wrong.

Therefore, I'd go with Cheddar's suggestion and take a wait-and-see approach. Let's see if PvP isn't an abject trainwreck and then decide if a migration is worth it.

I can partially agree with that. But you could also just try it out the first couple days of release and see how it plays. If the folks who want to start on a fresh server find it to be tolerable, they can let us know how it's going and the rest of us can migrate if it's all good. Otherwise, they can head back to Steamfont and be no worse for the wear. Is a couple days enough to know what's going to happen? Maybe not, but it'll give you an idea of general population, who's staying and who's leaving, what kind of guild politics will be happening, etc. Again, I'm open to whatever. If I move to PvP and hate it, I can always go back to Steamfont or some other server. My only preference is to play alongside f13 folks if possible.

[Venkman]

FYI they've invited folks to enter into their Beta contest for KoS and PvP (separately). It's one of the banners that come up in the EQ2 launchpad, it appears on the main page, and both link directly to this registration page. I don't know if there's any requirements beyond your account though. All I did was log in, click this URL on the page, and it thanked me for registering.

I'd love to get into the PvP beta of this. Would answer a lot of questions real quickly. I always liked the idea of open PvP, but for me personally, it needs some constraints.

[Morfiend]

I'd love to get into the PvP beta of this. Would answer a lot of questions real quickly. I always liked the idea of open PvP, but for me personally, it needs some constraints.

I am hoping they work it some thing like WoW's pvp. With contested zones and home zones. Giving people the first 20 levels or so free from ganking.