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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Everquest 2  |  Topic: The new newbie experience 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: The new newbie experience  (Read 10242 times)
Soukyan
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on: January 16, 2006, 07:11:07 AM

So I loaded up the test client and logged onto the test server to see what it was like.

First impressions:
- I really miss the voice-overs. They are very noticable absent. Are there plans to make new voice-overs for the isle? I feel that this is important, especially for brand spanking new players who have just done the boat tutorial. A big silent newbie zone between the boat and Qeynos or Freeport is just... odd. And immersion breaking. At least that's how I feel.

- The new storyline is a bit disjointed, but it is workable.

- The mobs are higher level and much more aggro and linked. This is due to the players being more powerful. I'm not sure if this is because of the immediate class selection or what, but if so, what of the rest of the game from levels 6 to 15ish. Does this mean adjustments need to be made to the "newbie dungeons" and such? The way the mobs are functioning now though will give new players a good idea of mob-linking and how to handle it. Perhaps they are going for that "CoH hero feel" of beating down multiple mobs at once earlier in the game to get people hooked.

- There are no steps to the "choose your city" platform in the water and it is now a trading outpost that you need to visit for a quest. You can jump to it from a section of beach to advance the quest, but what a pain in the ass if you are just learning the game. Put the steps back.

- Have I mentioned that the silence is deafening? I want new voice overs. ;)


Anyhow, I spent about an hour tinkering around with the new stuffs. The advancement is alright, but a little on the slow side. I had to "grind" a level out (didn't take long, but not a smooth transition and not what I liked about the game in the first place) at one point to continue doing my newbie quests. All-told not bad, but has some rough edges to be sanded before going live. I'm guessing that they aren't so concerned about attracting new players any longer so much as retaining old players.

And lastly, a comment about selecting your "final" class at character creation. Players will still get to level 15 or higher before understanding how the class actually plays. This is because of the nature of the game. Group encounters don't typically start to last very long until 15 and up so it's hard to get a real feel for your class before then. So for those who want to be dubbed a Dirge from the start, I guess this will drag them in, but don't be surprised if people still end up bitching about having to reroll because it's going to happen no matter what. I actually like the subclassing system and the quests for them. Will I never roll up another character in EQ2? It's hard to say. If the new newbie isle experience is smoothed out maybe, but as I'm not worried about any alts until my main is maxxed out, I guess we shall see how it goes. Once my main character is maxxed out, I'll probably try the Freeport experience just to see things from the other side. It's a shame you can't have both systems available (subclass and choose-at-birth) and let the players choose which they want to use.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Venkman
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Reply #1 on: January 16, 2006, 08:59:54 AM

Quote from: Soukyan
Perhaps they are going for that "CoH hero feel" of beating down multiple mobs at once earlier in the game to get people hooked
Is that how it's balanced? One versus four against the player? If so, that'd be very cool, something anathema to so many of these games (except those with woefully unbalanced combat, where taking on multiple mobs is an accident).

Quote
I'm guessing that they aren't so concerned about attracting new players any longer so much as retaining old players.
Not sure I understand that assertion really. Why revamp an entire newbie experience few vets would do anything but grind right through for an alt? I can't imagine they'd spend all this time and money on a newbie experience they weren't going to specifically push both at retail and at E3. Maybe in preparation for hyping the next expansion.

Quote
I actually like the subclassing system...
Yet you would end up rerolling for each new branch you wanted to take anyway right? I'm out of touch on EQ2, but I seem to recall you could respec back to an earlier decision point sometime after launch.

But honestly, rerolling is no longer the concern I once had. I think the general gamer does not mind it as much as they mind having to figure out proper skill combinations and whatnot. Even if it's a canned linear experience with no choice except to advance, persist, or reroll, it's intrinsic to the larger game world guiding players along, rather than asking them to figure it out for themselves.

So as long as it doesn't take forever to level through contrived roadblocks, players truly interested in the game will reroll. Grudgingly or not.

Quote
... and the quests for them
I liked the idea of the quests, but not the execution. Did they ever revamp them? What I experienced was a number of quests that bore no real-world functional relevance to how the class actually player. This was back when you couldn't undo a decision (and I say "couldn't" assuming respeccing was added at some point). To me, it was a waste to have all these nice quests not telling players the things they really needed to know.
Soukyan
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Reply #2 on: January 16, 2006, 12:02:55 PM

The quests on newbie isle still do not tell the player what they need to know. Although perhaps you could expound upon what you mean so I can address it more clearly.

The current newbie isle experience allows you to take on multiple mobs and win. The new one is the same, but the mobs appear to be higher level (i.e. 4 levels 5s instead of 4 level 4s). I don't know if the mobs are actually consistent with others of the same level, or if the digit is just higher, but with lower hp, mitigation, etc. True, there's nothing wrong with making the player feel more powerful, but as I said, the experience gain was not smooth enough so I found myself grinding out a level (yes, yes, low levels are not much, but I still shouldn't have to stop the smooth transition to advance. If I wanted leveling in between my quests on newbie isle, I'd go back to DAoC. Heh.) in order to complete the next quest. This used to be more organic and happened as a matter of course. Really, on the old newbie isle, I found myself to be leveling faster than needed for the quests given me. Like I said, just a minor tweak or two should fix that on the new isle.

As to grinding through the newbie isle with an alt, while the quests may be the same, I can't say that I just blow right by everything there. But that's because I've not rolled bunches of alts. I've played a caster, priest and now scout in release. The caster I last played over a year ago. If I were to roll a warrior or caster now, I would take my time on the isle to get the hang of the playstyle of the class. But that's just me. For one of me, there are probably hundreds of catasses with multiple alts who will just cruise through and "get to the good stuff". My problem is I like to enjoy myself and I like to complete all the quests on the isle with all my characters. Once again, I am probably in the minority so that colors my perception of the whole experience. But note that while each of the four classes had different quest lines to take on newbie isle, it looks like with the new setup, everyone is doing the same quests. It appears that way. I will need to roll a different class (tested a caster thus far and saw warrior and scout classes doing the same quest steps as me) to verify this.

Good point on the reroll. At least with class selection at the start, you can reroll at any point when you start to decide you dislike your choice or whatever. And let's face it, veterans of MMOGs are going to be able to look at the spell lists on EQ2's web site and know even before they roll how a class is going to play and if they are going to enjoy the skillset. But should there be some unknown surprise to the playstyle, this alleviates the "grind" to 20 only to find that out. (As an aside, I must admit that I haven't felt like the game was grindy up to level 19 thus far. A lot of the changes of the past year have gone far to make the game flow quite nicely and keep the player interested. I think alot of that has to do with the exploration aspect of it. That's what caught me about the first EQ and that's also what killed the first EQ for me. At least in EQ2, I've got a pretty good chance at exploring much more of the world at any given time.)


« Last Edit: January 16, 2006, 12:08:25 PM by Soukyan »

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
schild
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Reply #3 on: January 16, 2006, 12:07:17 PM

As I dare not venture onto official forums, how do I log into the test center, I'd like to play newnewbie island.
Soukyan
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Reply #4 on: January 16, 2006, 12:07:45 PM

From the EQ2Players.com Support Site:

"Joining the Test Server

How to Install and Run the EverQuest II Test Server Client

Connecting to the EverQuest II Test Server requires that you run a version of the game that is slightly different than the one used to connect to our regular live servers. If you want to keep the option of playing on both the live and Test servers, we HIGHLY recommend that you run the Test client from its own folder. For this reason, we have created a folder in your EverQuest II directory called \TestServer\ which contains the Test launchpad and this help text file.

The following steps will guide you through our recommended Test client setup process.

1. Using Windows Explorer, navigate to the \TestServer\ folder in your EverQuest II directory. Create a shortcut on your desktop for the TestEQ2.exe file, which is the launchpad used to connect to the Test server. You may rename the shortcut if you wish, but don't double-click it yet. If you do, you will end up downloading the entire Test client, which would be a long and unnecessary process.

2. Highlight all the files and folders in the EverQuest II root directory EXCEPT the following: the \cache\ folder, the \logincache\ folder, the \TestServer\ folder, and the eq2_default.ini file. (You can use Control-A to highlight all the files and folders, then hold down the Control key and left-click on those folders and files to de-select them.) Right-click and drag the selected folders to the \TestServer\ folder. Select the option to COPY the files and folders, NOT move them.

3. When the copy is complete, double-click the desktop shortcut you made in Step 1. This will run the Test server launchpad and update the client to be able to connect to the Test server.

Using this method, you can use your regular EverQuest II shorcut to connect to the normal servers and the Test launchpad shortcut to connect to the Test server. Keeping the Test client in its own folder takes up a significant amount of hard drive space but will save you a lot of time updating both clients in the future.

For more information on the Test server, please read the thread titled Playing on the Test Server in the FAQ section of the official EverQuest II forums."



And from the FAQ Forums thread for Playing on the Test Server:

"How is the Test server different from other servers?
The EverQuest II Test server is an environment in which players can access a newer version of the game that includes the latest fixes and content additions before they go live to the regular servers. It's also a place where designers can test new ideas and systems to see whether they should be included or adjusted in the game.
 
Do I use my existing EverQuest II client to play on the Test server?
We highly recommend that you make a separate copy of your EverQuest II directory and use that to connect to the Test server. Doing so avoids many potential problems that could arise from using the same installation to connect to both the Test and normal servers.
 
What is the benefit of playing on the Test server?
Members of the Test server community make a direct contribution to the future of the game by helping the developers test out changes and new systems. The feedback provided by Test players is invaluable in helping shape the future of the game. It is very much like an ongoing beta program. Additionally, the population of the Test server is generally smaller than that of a standard server, encouraging the development of a helpful, tightly knit community.
 
Plus, there is a permanent 50% experience bonus on Test for both adventurers and crafters. This helps players advance on the Test server much more quickly.
 
What are the potential downsides to playing on the Test server?
Because we will be updating the Test server to include the latest code and data, downtimes can be more frequent than on the normal servers or may happen at odd times. Additionally, item and ability changes may happen as we get feedback on how they function in game. Finally, there is a chance we may need to sometimes remove items to maintain the integrity of the testing environment.
 
Playing on the Test server isn't for everyone, but it can be a rewarding experience. Those who play on the Test server must do so understanding the risks involved and must be committed to supplying feedback that can help build a stronger game. On Test server the greatest sense of reward is the knowledge that you are lending a direct hand to the ongoing development of EverQuest II.
 
Do you plan to periodically wipe existing Test characters?
No, we won't wipe Test characters. We know that our testers care about their characters and want to see them advance. Playing on Test does not mean your characters are temporary. If a change we introduce on the Test server causes something extremely bad to happen, we will restore characters to an earlier save point rather than delete them.
 
Do I have to use any of my standard character slots to play on the Test server?
No. Characters on the Test server are completely separate from characters on the other servers. You have a totally separate bank of character slots available for play exclusively on the Test server.
 
Can I have my existing characters copied over for play on Test?
No. Characters on the Test server will be starting fresh. However, there may be times when the dev team copies over characters from the standard servers to help test specific features.
 
Wouldn't you get better testing results if you encouraged character copies?
We feel that promoting Test as a real server with a unique community will result in more consistent and useful feedback than allowing characters from other servers to be copied over at will. While that would result in more people seeing the latest changes, there are many who would take advantage of such a service for reasons other than helping improve the game. Having the server crowded with less-dedicated players could actually get in the way of receiving quality feedback from the experienced individuals who currently play on Test.
 
Should we assume all the changes that show up on the Test server will eventually make their way to the other servers?
No. Do not think of the Test server as a preview; it is a testing environment. While many changes and additions will indeed move to the live servers at some point, not all of them will. Becoming either angry or overjoyed because something changes on the Test server would be premature. In order for the Test server to fulfil its intended purpose, it must be a place where the development team has the freedom to try new ideas and theories that may not be intended for the other servers.
 
Why are my characters from the standard servers shown (but marked as unavailable) when I run the Test client?
It is likely that you accidentally copied over the \cache\ folder, the \logincache\ folder, or the eq2_default.ini file when you copied files into the \TestServer\ directory. Delete these files and folders from your \TestServer\ folder (but NOT your EverQuest II root directory) and run the Test launchpad again."
« Last Edit: January 16, 2006, 12:12:39 PM by Soukyan »

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
schild
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Reply #5 on: January 16, 2006, 12:10:56 PM

Thanks. I'll post about it sometime tonight.
Numtini
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Reply #6 on: January 16, 2006, 06:35:14 PM

First things first. They need to lose the ICONIC selection of a class. Way way too NGE. I wasn't even an SWG regular, just someone who logged in now and again on a station pass, but it left me with an immediate negative feeling about the game. SOE doesn't ever want to remind anyone of SWG:NGE.

 It's a newbie experience and not a whole lot different than the previous one. I played a conjuror and a necro. And pretty much it's exactly the same as when I played a generic mage or warrior or cleric. I sit there and repeat the attack spell again and again. The same could be said of WOW or SB. I never liked the "pre-classing" idea, but I didn't see the point in changing it and I don't see the point in changing it after tinkering with the test version.

Then I never had a real problem with the EQ2 pre-classing. I thought for the most part it developed a character nicely. I've played a Mystic, Conjuror, and Paladin and I never felt like I wasn't playing my class. So I didn't have lay on hands in Blackburrow, I had a sword and armor and I was tanking. Just didn't seem like a deal. And I can't remember anything like the Shadowbane archers, where you had to suffer without a weapon so you could save your points for when you got access to the bow. No, being a generic mage wasn't really like being a conjuror in gameplay, but tossing out the pet there in the newbie zone isn't quite like soloing groups of heroics with my conjuoror either. Though I'm sure the necros are a lot happier with more creepy pets.

I look at the amount of effort this must require and think it could have gone somewhere more useful.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
schild
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Reply #7 on: January 16, 2006, 07:11:58 PM

Wait? The new experience has iconic selection of class?

Without even playing I can say that it's fucking stupid. Crossthread love coming here.

Make me the hero, just once. It's enough not being the hero, but don't taunt me when I select my class.
Murgos
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Reply #8 on: January 17, 2006, 05:36:43 AM

First things first. They need to lose the ICONIC selection of a class. Way way too NGE.

As someone who hasn't played the NGE and also hasn't finished his first cup of coffee, what does this mean?  Small words please.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Numtini
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Reply #9 on: January 17, 2006, 05:49:28 AM

Really simply, the NGE talked about "iconic" choices of class. I think they mean icon in the sense of archetype, but at the character creation, there's a bunch of icons each representing a profession. The new EQ2 character creation process has a very similar screen, though the selection is square instead of round. But it's reminiscent. Reminiscent enough to make me think to myself that I shouldn't get too attached because they might yank the rug out from under me at any time.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Murgos
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Reply #10 on: January 17, 2006, 06:05:43 AM

In that sense of iconic the old (err, current?) class system was exactly that.  It was selection entirely by archtype (Mage, Cleric, Fighter, Thief).  Your post seems to be self-contradictory, how would you rather see class selection?  I think what your are saying was, "It aint broke don't fix it." but I think the EQ2 dev teams position is that the tiered system is a barrier to entry and that they are trying to lower any and all barriers to try and get some WoW spillover.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Alkiera
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Reply #11 on: January 17, 2006, 06:25:58 AM

In that sense of iconic the old (err, current?) class system was exactly that.  It was selection entirely by archtype (Mage, Cleric, Fighter, Thief).  Your post seems to be self-contradictory, how would you rather see class selection?  I think what your are saying was, "It aint broke don't fix it." but I think the EQ2 dev teams position is that the tiered system is a barrier to entry and that they are trying to lower any and all barriers to try and get some WoW spillover.

I think the primary complaint was that they used the same wording as SWG's recent flop, and that any association with SWG should be minimized, for the good of the game.

Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Numtini
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Reply #12 on: January 17, 2006, 06:28:15 AM

Exactly. They didn't even use wording, it was just that the presentation struck me as very similar in a creepy way. And that's really not something that they want to remind people of.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Murgos
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Reply #13 on: January 17, 2006, 06:40:03 AM

Exactly. They didn't even use wording, it was just that the presentation struck me as very similar in a creepy way. And that's really not something that they want to remind people of.

Wait, your railing against clicking an icon to choose your class?

Would you rather people have to type it in?  I can see the board posts now:

"It won't let me be a rouge, I've typed it in like 50 times and this game SUCKS!"

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Glazius
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Reply #14 on: January 17, 2006, 07:00:13 AM

First things first. They need to lose the ICONIC selection of a class. Way way too NGE.

As someone who hasn't played the NGE and also hasn't finished his first cup of coffee, what does this mean?  Small words please.
From my understanding of it, when you selected a profession in SWG, you were shown exemplars of that profession in the original canon. Boba Fett the bounty hunter, Luke the jedi, Han the smuggler, etc etc. And after two years of grueling effort you might possibly maybe come close to being one of their lackeys.

I'm guessing that when you pick a starting class in EQ2 it's a picture of a level MAX with dragon loot, or something like that. Something way more awesome than you're going to be for a long time.

--GF
Alkiera
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Reply #15 on: January 17, 2006, 07:02:00 AM

Exactly. They didn't even use wording, it was just that the presentation struck me as very similar in a creepy way. And that's really not something that they want to remind people of.

Wait, your railing against clicking an icon to choose your class?

Would you rather people have to type it in?  I can see the board posts now:

"It won't let me be a rouge, I've typed it in like 50 times and this game SUCKS!"

LOL.

Before, class selections always occured in the standard dialog system.  Text, but from a menu, not typed.  Tho, There might be a lot fewer "rouge"s in games if they had to type the class name.

Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Miasma
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Stopgap Measure


Reply #16 on: January 17, 2006, 07:17:44 AM

Exactly. They didn't even use wording, it was just that the presentation struck me as very similar in a creepy way. And that's really not something that they want to remind people of.

Wait, your railing against clicking an icon to choose your class?

Would you rather people have to type it in?  I can see the board posts now:

"It won't let me be a rouge, I've typed it in like 50 times and this game SUCKS!"
I don't get the problem either, it's a minor user interface decision.  I'm pretty sure the NGE was screwed up because of what happened after character creation, not because you clicked on a picture of a Jedi instead of selecting it from a drop-down menu.

Did you destroy all the icons on your start bar and desktop in a great fiery purge of all NGE reminders as well?  Were you upset that before you picked your class you had to click on an icon of the race you wanted to play?  tongue

Unless your complaint is much deeper than just icon vs drop-down.  I could understand if you had preferred a quest to choose your class instead of selecting it at the beginning.
Numtini
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Reply #17 on: January 17, 2006, 07:30:51 AM

All I can say is my experience in a revamp of an SOE game was to be reminded in a vivid way of the NGE and that is not playing to your strengths. Yes, it's a very minor point. But I'd say back that a thousand minor points is one of the major differences between Blizzard and SOE.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Miasma
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Stopgap Measure


Reply #18 on: January 17, 2006, 07:41:05 AM

All I can say is my experience in a revamp of an SOE game was to be reminded in a vivid way of the NGE and that is not playing to your strengths. Yes, it's a very minor point. But I'd say back that a thousand minor points is one of the major differences between Blizzard and SOE.
Blizzard uses those evil icons too:



They're everywhere!  No escape!
Hartsman
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Reply #19 on: January 17, 2006, 09:37:27 AM

In that sense of iconic the old (err, current?) class system was exactly that.  It was selection entirely by archtype (Mage, Cleric, Fighter, Thief).  Your post seems to be self-contradictory, how would you rather see class selection?  I think what your are saying was, "It aint broke don't fix it." but I think the EQ2 dev teams position is that the tiered system is a barrier to entry and that they are trying to lower any and all barriers to try and get some WoW spillover.

I'd call it 50% a barrier to replay value, and 50% a barrier to new people coming in and wanting to play their final class right away. 

Personal gameplay analogy: 

* Starting: When I first rolled my latest character, I knew that I wanted to roll a Necromancer.  Lots of people know what they want to be when they choose it.   Making me be not-a-conjurer/not-a-necromancer for 20 levels is really annoying in practice.  Enjoyed the hell out of him after level 20 though.

* Replay: I've been putting off starting my next newbie because, well, I just don't want to replay the same exact 10 levels again.  I'm definitely holding off on my next caster newbie because I don't want to play the same exact 20 again.



As for the layout -- The sole reason we did it that way is because that's already how race selection works.  4x4 grid of pictures.  We did it for familiarity with our own UI, not another game's. :)

- Scott


Hartsman
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Reply #20 on: January 17, 2006, 09:40:32 AM

A couple other comments on other things in the thread..

About the current island:

There are a number of bugs on the current version that are causing people's skills to be off, so quite a few things are too easy/too hard depending on which class.

There are also geometry bugs in the current version causing chunks to just not be there (steps, crates, and a wall or two)

Fixes for both will be on test in 19b this week.  (Asset drops usually only go once per week  This week's drop should fix the highly inconvenient geometry issues that people have noticed, and add a number of pretty cool improvements. :)


- Scott

Venkman
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Reply #21 on: January 17, 2006, 10:08:24 AM

Hey now, you're spoiling us here man :)

Comparing iconic profession selection to SWG is a concern, but it's not a huge thing. Turbine is doing it in DDO, a game which I think will be more compared to EQ2 than SWG was. That SWG comes from the same "company" only matters to people who decide on gaming experiences based solely on company (if it's from Company X then it must be good/bad). But we all know that the SOE teams are autonomous, and even if we didn't, the relative quality/stability/playability of EQ2 vs SWG would bely that fact anyway. Different games, different teams, different themes, and anything that bears any resemblance is stuff that would bear resemblance to any game of this ilk (except where SOE can leverage common chat servers, CSR functions, and All Access Station Pass).

Fact is, players are still asked to make fundamental decisions about their entire future of gaming without having any relevant knowledge with which to do so. Having opening movies and any sort of references helps them make a better decision. That's a worthy goal even if we'll argue about implementation until the sun cools :)
Sky
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Reply #22 on: January 17, 2006, 11:27:05 AM

Yeah, it'd been nice to have had an intro movie for my EQ necro. "Start as a master of the undead, sicken your enemies and enslave the dead...then move on to become a mana cleric and hand your mana to others to use."

Sorry, that one still burns a little.
Soukyan
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Reply #23 on: January 17, 2006, 01:10:38 PM

A couple other comments on other things in the thread..

About the current island:

There are a number of bugs on the current version that are causing people's skills to be off, so quite a few things are too easy/too hard depending on which class.

There are also geometry bugs in the current version causing chunks to just not be there (steps, crates, and a wall or two)

Fixes for both will be on test in 19b this week.  (Asset drops usually only go once per week  This week's drop should fix the highly inconvenient geometry issues that people have noticed, and add a number of pretty cool improvements. :)


- Scott

Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to testing it again after the changes.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
schild
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Reply #24 on: January 19, 2006, 08:45:48 AM

Here's an artists rendition of my time on the new new new new newbie island.

Shockeye
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Reply #25 on: January 19, 2006, 08:47:27 AM

Where are the hills?
schild
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Reply #26 on: January 19, 2006, 08:48:02 AM

Where are the hills?

Map is not to scale. Also, they're hidden under the yellow stripes in Not Fun Land.
Venkman
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Reply #27 on: January 19, 2006, 02:30:25 PM

So the newbie island for Evil is the same zone as it is for Good? Even not to scale and with the slightly wrong colors, that looks exactly like Refuge.

Is the difference between Good and Evil now that they simply don't see each other in newbieland?

And what happened to the boat intro?
Miasma
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Reply #28 on: January 19, 2006, 04:55:17 PM

So the newbie island for Evil is the same zone as it is for Good? Even not to scale and with the slightly wrong colors, that looks exactly like Refuge.

Is the difference between Good and Evil now that they simply don't see each other in newbieland?

And what happened to the boat intro?
From my brief run through it looks like the island is the same for both but with different NPCs, structures, mobs and quests.  The central tower looks different for example.  They separated good and evil on newbie island several months ago, I don't know why.  The boat is gone, instead there are NPCs that you can click on if you don't know how to do something, they have titles under them telling you what they teach.
Venkman
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Reply #29 on: January 19, 2006, 05:15:50 PM

Yea, I noticed some of those new tutorial-esque NPCs last night. I also liked the opening quest, which was basically a run around type thing making people familiar with the camp (Good side). I sort of missed the boat though. It set the stage for why you're a disheveled wreck when you awake on the island. Maybe they just don't have it on Test because they figure the testers have seen it all and/or because it's long since been polished to a shine?

It's good to hear there's some difference between Good and Evil at least, sort of like two shades of the same thing.
Soukyan
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Reply #30 on: January 19, 2006, 06:42:54 PM

Yeah, I hope they keep the boat tutorial in for new players. It was not only useful and well-done, but also showed off the capabilities of the game quite nicely in a succinct little vignette. If I had to wager a guess, I would surmise that the large amount of water and effects in that tutorial was overly taxing on a lot of players' computers and they don't want to give people the wrong idea and make them think the game is unplayable on their PC.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Hartsman
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Reply #31 on: January 19, 2006, 11:39:58 PM

Yeah, I hope they keep the boat tutorial in for new players. It was not only useful and well-done, but also showed off the capabilities of the game quite nicely in a succinct little vignette. If I had to wager a guess, I would surmise that the large amount of water and effects in that tutorial was overly taxing on a lot of players' computers and they don't want to give people the wrong idea and make them think the game is unplayable on their PC.

I think you just explained it better than I did.   That's exactly it. 

We like the boat a lot too, and on the right machines it's fantastic.  On a less than recommended machine, it's something less than a recommended experience for a place that everyone goes through right off the bat.

We hope to be able to have it make a return some day.


Soukyan
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Reply #32 on: January 20, 2006, 04:37:55 AM

Yeah, I hope they keep the boat tutorial in for new players. It was not only useful and well-done, but also showed off the capabilities of the game quite nicely in a succinct little vignette. If I had to wager a guess, I would surmise that the large amount of water and effects in that tutorial was overly taxing on a lot of players' computers and they don't want to give people the wrong idea and make them think the game is unplayable on their PC.

I think you just explained it better than I did.   That's exactly it. 

We like the boat a lot too, and on the right machines it's fantastic.  On a less than recommended machine, it's something less than a recommended experience for a place that everyone goes through right off the bat.

We hope to be able to have it make a return some day.



Perhaps the scenario can be rewritten and it can be offered as an optional instance to go through between the Isle of the Queen/Overlord and your city of choice? That would make for an interesting transition and making it optional would ensure that those who do not have the systems to run it or who lack the desire to play the instance would be able to bypass it. Just a thought.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Merusk
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Reply #33 on: January 20, 2006, 04:54:38 AM

I think you just explained it better than I did.   That's exactly it. 

We like the boat a lot too, and on the right machines it's fantastic.  On a less than recommended machine, it's something less than a recommended experience for a place that everyone goes through right off the bat.

We hope to be able to have it make a return some day.

Yet another reason I find it laughable when MMO devs say they're designing their engine "for future machines!".  Yeah, it'll look stunning on those few machines that are top-of-the-line, but you're aggressively excluding potential customers.  People can bitch about WoW's engine / low poly count all they want but at least it runs on machines of median technology.

Pity about the boat, that was the part of EQ2 I actually enjoyed.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Venkman
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Reply #34 on: January 20, 2006, 06:22:57 AM

Quote from: Hartmann
We like the boat a lot too, and on the right machines it's fantastic. On a less than recommended machine, it's something less than a recommended experience for a place that everyone goes through right off the bat
That's a shame. I'm not sure how far back the engine can scale, but I'm playing on a fairly-well-maintained four-year-old Alienware box (with a 2yr-old Sapphire Radeon card) and so far can play the game at "High Performance" and some tweaks to individual settings (maxxed particles ftw!) with little to no problem related to graphics.

The boat sets the stage for much of the experience of EQ2, the whole rags-to-riches plot, the rebuilding of a war-torn land overtaken again by nature, that sort of thing. Without it, there's no intro at all. Just some guy or girl dumped into a new world with no more training than we got in any MMORPG from three years ago. The bookish/voiceover intro is cool and all, but it doesn't really set the stage for why the player is in this new world.

Do you know if there's talk of making a new intro, perhaps one that sets itself on land? Having people walk in from a desert is less graphically intense :)
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