Cruisers and the people that desire them

[gimpyone]

This is so I can keep track of BPCs I need to watch out for.  In exchange for guarding/hauling of goods I'm willing to mine the required minerals for everyone's cruisers, or you can just pay me. 
Cadwin: Rupture
Zetleft: Rupture

Post away.

[Sky]

Caracal

Tritanium
307.488

Pyerite
77.204

Mexallon
25.309


Isogen
5.284

Nocxium
1.276

Zydrine
276

Megacyte
76

[Viin]

I'm planning on building a Caracal too, so if you wanna split a BPC with me Sky I can buy one today.

[WayAbvPar]

Are cruisers the next step up from Frigates? I imagine I will be ready in a week or two. Or more 

[Furiously]

remember - buy 2... You will lose one.

[Merusk]

Are cruisers the next step up from Frigates? I imagine I will be ready in a week or two. Or more 

Kind of.

Destroyers are actually in-between Frigs and Cruisers.  They use small guns/ modules and give small gun bonuses so your fighting skills aren't gimped in them and you don't have to buy bigger modules.  Of course, they don't lead anywhere, the way Cruisers do. (Cruiser Skill lets you branch off into Battleships) so a lot of folks just jump right into Cruisers and skip Destroyers.

 You can fly a cruiser with small guns/ light missiles while training-up mediums/ heavy missiles, just don't expect to kill some things very fast.  I did it and it was fine, I just had to find bigger shield/ armor modules and buy a bigger afterburner or Microwarp. (They adjusted ABs/WMDs to have a trust rating back in July so you can't use a small one on a med ship and expect it to push that mass with any appreciable speed difference.)

Like Furiously said, buy 2 if you're building them.  Otherwise you'll have to wait-out the build cycle again.  (Or be like me and pay retail on the market!)

[WayAbvPar]

Do we have BPOs for all Gallente ships? What is the price difference between building and buying on the market? How long does it take to get all the mining done?

I am considering branching into trade and or research at some point.  The whole economy fascinates me. I may need to get out of the house more often  :-D

[Krakrok]

I'm buying a Thorax in the near future. If someone wants to build it and get the 6.9m instead of the market getting it that's fine too.

[Viin]

BPOs are really expensive for ships - but BPCs can be had for a fraction of the overall cost. The rule of thumb is the bigger the ship, the cheaper it is to make it from a BPC than to buy it on the market. I think Cruiser-class ships are the place to start when it comes to making ships instead of buying them on the market. Anything smaller than that just isn't worth it.

The only BPCs the corp has for ships right now are two Caldari ships: Osprey and Blackbird.

I'll be buying a BPC for a Caldari Caracal later today, so we'll have 3 total. We can look into getting a Thorax BPC too, but I have no idea how much those cost. If someone wants to use it to sell to Krakrok (at some kind of discount) then that'd be a good goal for someone(s) to go for this week.

[Raging Turtle]

Vexor, baby!

I can start actually training the cruiser skill... tomorrow.  then drones.  and then small to medium hybrid turrents.  then shields and cpu stuff and everything else.

I think Reg mentioned he has a Vexor BPO, anyone can just haul minerals to him and he'll make one.   

[Strazos]

Do Battlecruisers count? 

[WayAbvPar]

Do we have anyone doing research so we can get into the Tech 2 raffles? I have been thinking about heading down that path at some point. Also- how hard is it to learn another race's ships? Seems like we have tons of Caldari ships and no Gallente.

Are BPOs ever drops, or do they come from research only?

[Strazos]

We have a bunch of Caldari, a handful of Gallente, and a few Minmatar. I know at least one guy is training All of the ships, including Amarr.

I may one day cross-train into Amarr, but that would not be for a very long time.

[Yoru]

My corp has a partially-used multi-run Caracal BPC that we're not going to be employing in the near future, so I can run it for people if they need it.

Do we have anyone doing research so we can get into the Tech 2 raffles? I have been thinking about heading down that path at some point. Also- how hard is it to learn another race's ships? Seems like we have tons of Caldari ships and no Gallente.

Are BPOs ever drops, or do they come from research only?

Getting another race's ships is as easy as heading to the nearest bookshop and picking up that race's Frigate skill, then Cruiser once that's up to 4, and so on and so forth.

Me, I'm contemplating putting together a Raven over the next two weeks. Because, really, it's a big shiny. :)

[Viin]

BPOs can be bought on the market or given as Agent prizes.

Researching is what makes your BPCs better than the BPO.

Yoru, can you sell us the Caracal BPC or do you still want to keep it around? I think we'll buy a 5 run Caracal BPC tonight, as it'd be easier for everyone in the corp to use than to have to wait for you get online. 

[Raging Turtle]

I know at least one guy is training All of the ships, including Amarr.

It wasn't intentional, I just have commitment problems  

It might be useful down the road.  Right now?  very useless. 

[Strazos]

I just have commitment problems   

I'm sure your significant other finds this very endearing.  Sorry, it was just too easy.

[Yoru]

BPOs can be bought on the market or given as Agent prizes.

Researching is what makes your BPCs better than the BPO.

Yoru, can you sell us the Caracal BPC or do you still want to keep it around? I think we'll buy a 5 run Caracal BPC tonight, as it'd be easier for everyone in the corp to use than to have to wait for you get online. 

Yeah, I can check how many runs are left on it and price it accordingly, but I might not be on until very late tonight. How does 100k per run sound? I'll escrow the thing to you.

[Merusk]

Me, I'm contemplating putting together a Raven over the next two weeks. Because, really, it's a big shiny. :)

Ravens are lovely. Even though I love my Minmatar ships, I'll be training for a Raven if/ when I decide to go for Battleships.  Plus they seem fairly nerf-immune. Even after "the great missile nerf of '05" I recall them being formidable and are one of the tops now in RMR.  Luv.

[Sky]

So can I get 2? :)

When do we go for the mining mission on this one? Thursday and Friday nights are tougher for me to play.

Ravens look cool and eventually I want a covert ops ship, even if they aren't all that. But for now I'm all about the Caracal and missiles missiles missiles.

[Viin]

Yeah, I can check how many runs are left on it and price it accordingly, but I might not be on until very late tonight. How does 100k per run sound? I'll escrow the thing to you.

That'd be more than fine, though it seems a bit low. Don't feel like you need to give us too much of a break, but it's appreciated! 

Sky: You can make two if you want to, though I'm only going to make one. If I blow mine up I can always get more minerals to make another one.

[Sky]

What is involved in getting one made? I'm a newbtard. *By one I mean two*

[gimpyone]

Most of the minerals are easy to get except for the ones that can only be mined in low sec space. Those you have to buy out of pocket.

[Megrim]

So i take it by this thread, that manufacturing the cruisers ourselves is chaper than buying them? If so, plz do be signing me up for a Bellicose.

[Reg]

I have a researched Vexor BPO and the mineral requirements for me to make one are:

Isogen      - 5463
Megacyte  - 56
Mexallon    - 27619
Nocxium    - 1346
Pyerite      - 81448
Tritanium   - 324569
Zydrine      - 275

Anyone that wants one can just bring the minerals to Nakugard V - Republic Universiity and I'll put one in the oven.

I also have a Dominix (Gallente Battleship) BPO that will be out of research in a couple of weeks. When people are ready for that I'll offer the same deal.

[Raging Turtle]

I have a researched Vexor BPO and the mineral requirements for me to make one are:

Isogen      - 5463
Megacyte  - 56
Mexallon    - 27619
Nocxium    - 1346
Pyerite      - 81448
Tritanium   - 324569
Zydrine      - 275

Anyone that wants one can just bring the minerals to Nakugard V - Republic Universiity and I'll put one in the oven.

I also have a Dominix (Gallente Battleship) BPO that will be out of research in a couple of weeks. When people are ready for that I'll offer the same deal.

What's the normal build time for a Cruiser? 

I'll be interested in the Dominix in a... month?  2 weeks?  I have no idea, really. 

[Yoru]

For posterity, the mining cadre that I've been a part of so far generates (on average) about 25,000 isogen per hour with 2 miners on duty (1 barge, 1 2-laser cruiser) and one hauler or 15,000 isogen per hour if I'm the only one firing lasers. I haven't clocked our production rate of mexallon, trit or pyerite, but it should be similarly ludicrous.

However, this hinges on having a system that's chock full of ore; ore spawns haven't been kind lately, although that primarily affects high-value ore (i.e. the isogen-heavy omber rocks) so trit/pyer/mex will be less difficult to acquire.

Nocxium of any significant (>100) amount really forces us to go for jaspet or some other lowsec ore; there are some systems near our usual mining spots that have it, but we'd need heavier guns than we currently usually field. One guy in a heavy combat cruiser would probably suffice. Alternately, it can be purchased at moderate expense.

Zydrine can be found in trace quantities in hemorphite and hedbergite, which I've not seen above 0.2 space. Buying zydrine is probably the largest expense in building a ship for us right now.

Megacyte, just buy it on the market. The ores for it only spawn in 0.0 and aren't all that common down there, from what I've heard.

If you buy the nocx, zyd and megacyte on the market, then the rest of the materials can be acquired in a few hours of mining.

[Reg]

Build time for the Vexor is an hour or two I think. I'm not at my factory station right now so I can't check.

[NiX]

Caracal - I have some minerals on me now.

[gimpyone]

Okay I have 4 orders for caracals, 2 ruptures, 1 bellicose, 1 vexor.

Here are the total requirements for that

Tritanium
2,701,287

Pyerite
677,655

Mexallon
206,089

Isogen
44,960

Nocxium
10,961

Zydrine
2,066

Megacyte
757

[squirrel]

Also looking to get a Caracal. Have all the skills just need $ and materials. No hurry for me - running rat and fedex missions in my missile frigate atm.

[5150]

I'm on the reasearch agent ladder - unfortunately I believe that the 'bp lottery' is only held when CCP decide the market needs some more T2 BPO's - so its [alot] of work and skills for very little opportunity.

I think I had to train up science a bit and also caldari starship engineering and I think I still need to get gravametric physics (or similar). The agent will email you every once in a while saying that research has halted (so you stop getting R&D points) andl you need to do a mission for him to resume (the R&D points are the number of lottery tickets you have - obviously more points give you a bigger chance of getting a T2 BPO if/when CCP decide to hold another lottery)

IMO you'd be better off working for one of the faction [navy or pirate] agents that give out the 'enhanced' T1 ship BP's (Raven Navy issue for example) the problem here is I gather that the BPC is sold to you in exchange for cash and goods and often (especially on the low end stuff like frigate BPC's like the Caldari Hookbill) the price the agent asks just isnt worth it for what you get in return.

I've been playing with destroyers since returning to Eve, the ammount of firepower they have is very nice but be aware that they arent (or dont appear to be) as good as taking damage as the top combat Frigate. The 7 guns and missile on the Caldari Cormorant<sp?> make a mess of stuff really quickly but I do get the feeling I'm having to run away and repair more than I did in my Merlin

Destroyers definately bridge the price gap between Frigates and cruisers (which use to be massive. IIRC Merlins were about 500k and the Osprey about 1.5Mill) but I'm not convinced the fill the combat gap (because they can still only fit frigate gear and guns - albeit more of them with a rate of fire penalty)

I'd imagine battlecruisers are a similar deal (i.e. fill the price gap, no idea about their combat capability)

The only Caldari cruiser I dont have is a Moa. The other 3 are relatively cheap to pick up on the market (especially the Osprey and Blackbird which are only really any good for mining and electronic warfare respectively). I managed to pick up my Caracal quite cheaply (make sure you got lots of missile skills and equipment if you are going for one of these) but the Moa is the gun boat of the Caldari cruiser batch and is priced accordingly.

Dont get my wrong you can Frigate hunt in pretty much all of the cruisers (mainly because the guns are bigger) but the minute you go up against an NPC cruiser with a coupld of frigate escorts you start to understand why the Osprey and Blackbird were so cheap....

[Der Helm]

I've been playing with destroyers since returning to Eve, the amount of firepower they have is very nice but be aware that they aren't (or dint appear to be) as good as taking damage as the top combat Frigate. The 7 guns and missile on the Caldari Cormorant<sp?> make a mess of stuff really quickly but I do get the feeling I'm having to run away and repair more than I did in my Merlin

Destroyers definitely bridge the price gap between Frigates and cruisers (which use to be massive. IIRC Merlins were about 500k and the Osprey about 1.5Mill) but I'm not convinced the fill the combat gap (because they can still only fit frigate gear and guns - albeit more of them with a rate of fire penalty)

I just got my minmatar destroyer yesterday and I must say that I like him very much. I am running level 1 missions at the moment (time to get that social and connections skills up) and I just tear through stuff.

It sounds like you have more experience with this class, so I have a few questions.

Long Range or short Range ? I am using 280 mm howitzers at the moment and I am either oneshotting frigates at optimal range or gnawing on them, when they close the distance to about 2k-4k. At the moment I can take the punishment quite easily and level II missions should not be that more difficult as soon as I can install some decent shield/armor upgrades.

Is it possible to take out cruisers (NPC) with these ships or should I just run ?

[5150]

It sounds like you have more experience with this class, so I have a few questions.

Long Range or short Range ? I am using 280 mm howitzers at the moment and I am either oneshotting frigates at optimal range or gnawing on them, when they close the distance to about 2k-4k. At the moment I can take the punishment quite easily and level II missions should not be that more difficult as soon as I can install some decent shield/armor upgrades.

Is it possible to take out cruisers (NPC) with these ships or should I just run ?

I've only played with the Caldari and Gallante destroyers but they _appear_ to be aimed at close range combat, let me qualify that

Pretty much all of this data is from fighting 8k-13k Guristas rats in a 0.5 system in Caldari space - I keep meaning to get back on the agent missions but I haven't been able to devote enough time to Eve recently to get around to it.

My Cormorant can have 7 turrets and a launcher, however the bigger the turret the less of them I can mount due to powercore restraints (I dont have any powercore boosting skill or gear), if I'm mounting 75mil railguns I can get 7 on no problem, if I try and put 125mils on (which have a longer range) I can only get about 5 on, I think I'd only be able to get about 3 150mil's on it. This is alongside an EM shield hardener, 2x small shield boosters, a small armour and small hull repairer.

My max lock distance in it is 35k (not sure how much of this is boosted/crippled by my [lack of] combat skills though) so I tend to avoid groups of kestrels over 10k bounty each as they just kick the crap out of my before I'm in range. The fact that my antimatter ammo cuts my range in half obviously doesnt help here (I tend to start shooting at 12k and keep closing).

IIRC the Gallante destroyer is about the same, having used it anywhere near as much since its butt ugly

I'd expect projectile turrets to take less powergrid and the Minmatar destroyer might have a bonus to Proj turrets but I wouldnt be surprised if you ran into CPU problems instead

[Der Helm]

I'd expect projectile turrets to take less powergrid and the Minmatar destroyer might have a bonus to Proj turrets but I wouldn't be surprised if you ran into CPU problems instead

Not really, those Howitzer sure suck a lot of power.

Hm, I will try to pick up some Autocannons, I should be able to equip 7 of them no problem. Is there any way to auto-lock the nearest threat or anything like that ? Having no targetting skill at the moment is quite annoying