Ragefire Chasm

[Alkiera]

Experienced part of this dungeon today.

It's kinda interesting, they did pretty well at making content that is not doable by a solo player in the appropriat elevel range, yet is doable pretty easily by a group.  Well, assuming by the word group 'a collection of characters played by people who are not (a) complete newbs, (b) complete idiots, or (c) completely obnoxious'.  I looked at the map linked in the thread above... I managed to get all the way to the spot marked 'A' with just a 17 shaman and myself(me as a 16 warlock)  The mobs there just came too many for 2 people to handle.  Tried later with me, a 19 rogue, a 16 priest, and a 10 druid, and got to the start of the area with the criss-crossing paths, when the rogue decided it was time to leave all the sudden.

It looks like it could be fun... if I knew a few people who were in that level range and not a member of (a), (b), or (c), maybe I could complete it.

Alkiera

[HaemishM]

I hated Ragefire Chasm, it reminded me entirely too much of the cookie-cutter dungeons in DAoC on release.

Shadowfang Keep and the Deadmines? Much MUCH more interesting.

[Jamiko]

Shadowfang Keep is my favorite by far, but then I've yet to crack level 30.

[Alkiera]

Was in Orgrimmar last night getting new spells since I'd just turned 18... and there was a group looking for a tank for RFC.  I mentioned that I'd like to go, and they took me... as the tank.  Had me as 18 warlock, a priest, mage, shaman, and rogue, all 16-18.  Worked out pretty well, except the rogue kept getting himself confused for an actual tank, and dying.  The priest died once, but fortunately I'd gotten him in a soul stone, so he could reincarnate on the spot.  I'm liking Warlock so far.  My VW tanked the bosses.. with the priest and shaman buffs he was just incredible.  Only had to try to heal him in combat once, as the priest and shaman were focused elsewhere.

As I stated above, it was pretty neat with a group that wasn't retarded.  Reminded me a bit of  , gather a group of adventurers, do the dungeon, and get out.

Alkiera

[cevik]

I'm liking Warlock so far.  My VW tanked the bosses.. with the priest and shaman buffs he was just incredible.  Only had to try to heal him in combat once, as the priest and shaman were focused elsewhere.

I'm up to 33 on my Warlock and I still think it's a great class.  I spent all weekend at 29 in the 20-29 wsg, and with a succy I could easily kill 3 people at a time.  Seduce one, fear one, kill one, switch to the feared guy, kill him, switch to the seduced guy, kill.  I hung out in mid and let no one cross.  By the end of the weekend the "tactic" the allies were using was to wait for at least 5 people to gather at their gy, then have all 5 make a mad dash across the field to see if they could get one or two past me.  Typically I'd kill 3 and end up letting 2 across, only to kill them when they picked up the flag and tried to come back over mid.  We had great flag runners on our side, so controlling mid meant we won every game last weekend (at least all I was in).  I started taking screenshots of the wsgs where I lead the kbs, but after a couple hundred megs of screenies, I gave that up.. :)

My VW is still a good tank (though useless in pvp), but I've switched to using the succy when I grind exp.  Between me and her we can kill most anything before it can do much damage, so it's a non stop killing fest.  We just grind stuff up, non stop killing fun! :)

[Dren]

Agreed.  My warlock is fun to play and is probably my favorite out of the 6 alts I run.

[Alkiera]

My VW is still a good tank (though useless in pvp), but I've switched to using the succy when I grind exp.  Between me and her we can kill most anything before it can do much damage, so it's a non stop killing fest.  We just grind stuff up, non stop killing fun! :)

Yeah, Succubus is lvl 20, right?

I agree that there's not much point in a 'tank' pet in PvP.  Any half-intelligent player simply ignores it and kills you.  It's not really a high damage output machine...  At this point, The Imp would be a better choice.

Speaking of which... I dueled a 'lock with imp the other day when I was on my mage.  He was a level or so below me, and it was close, but I lost.  I thought about it, and figured what I should have done was open up by sheeping the lock, and offing his pet just to get rid of the rather annoying amount of damage he does.  Sure, it's not big up-front stuff, but it adds up, and it was close.  Then, with full hp, take on the lock by himself.

I generally decline duels, as it's generally someone several levels over me, of a class that has an obvious advantage.  This seemed pretty even.

Alkiera

[cevik]

Yeah, Succubus is lvl 20, right?

Yup.. if you are horde, you have to go to the wetlands and kill a pvp flagged alliance guy, which will pvp flag you.  When I did it there was a ?? NE hunter just sitting by the guy waiting to gank newb locks trying to get their succy.  I was able to lead him on a wild goose chase, come back, kill the mob, and finish hearthing just as I saw him draw his bow.  If you are alliance I have no clue what is in store for you.. :)

Speaking of which... I dueled a 'lock with imp the other day when I was on my mage.  He was a level or so below me, and it was close, but I lost.  I thought about it, and figured what I should have done was open up by sheeping the lock, and offing his pet just to get rid of the rather annoying amount of damage he does.  Sure, it's not big up-front stuff, but it adds up, and it was close.  Then, with full hp, take on the lock by himself.

Sheeping the lock then killing the pet is a good idea.  Then if you are lvl 24, get QuuSpellAlert so you can see what the lock is casting, then counterspell his shadowbolt.  That'll put 90% of his spells out of commision for 10 seconds.  Don't counterspell searing pain, a good lock will try to bait you by casting that first.  To be fair, I dont' think I've lost against a mage 1v1 yet.  Not that I've fought "good" mages, but mages seem to be even more of a glass cannon than I am, so typically I just need to DoT and outlast them and hope for a nightfall proc so I can insta cast my nuke.

[Alkiera]

Yeah, Succubus is lvl 20, right?

Yup.. if you are horde, you have to go to the wetlands and kill a pvp flagged alliance guy, which will pvp flag you.  When I did it there was a ?? NE hunter just sitting by the guy waiting to gank newb locks trying to get their succy.  I was able to lead him on a wild goose chase, come back, kill the mob, and finish hearthing just as I saw him draw his bow.  If you are alliance I have no clue what is in store for you.. :)

Speaking of which... I dueled a 'lock with imp the other day when I was on my mage.  He was a level or so below me, and it was close, but I lost.  I thought about it, and figured what I should have done was open up by sheeping the lock, and offing his pet just to get rid of the rather annoying amount of damage he does.  Sure, it's not big up-front stuff, but it adds up, and it was close.  Then, with full hp, take on the lock by himself.

Sheeping the lock then killing the pet is a good idea.  Then if you are lvl 24, get QuuSpellAlert so you can see what the lock is casting, then counterspell his shadowbolt.  That'll put 90% of his spells out of commision for 10 seconds.  Don't counterspell searing pain, a good lock will try to bait you by casting that first.  To be fair, I dont' think I've lost against a mage 1v1 yet.  Not that I've fought "good" mages, but mages seem to be even more of a glass cannon than I am, so typically I just need to DoT and outlast them and hope for a nightfall proc so I can insta cast my nuke.

My mage is only lvl 10 now, and was lower than that at the time, I think I'd just gotten to 8, so wasn't familiar with sheep yet.  The mage in the RFC instance that went well used it a good bit, tho, so I think I'll be more effective with it next time I play.  Mages are definately more 'glass-cannon' than warlocks are.  Frozen armor isn't nearly as good as Demon Armor in a fight... tho it's better if you're running away.  In fact, where my lock can stand in a fight and kill his target, because running away doesn't work so well(even saccing VW and running usually just makes it easier to come back for my corpse... or maybe I just need more potions.) My mage just runs.  Anything that hits him gets chilled, and makes them slow enough I can get away.  I've been soloing, and found I can solo about as well as my warlock up thru 10.  Maybe better.  I'm thinking the power of the VW, and the mage's lack thereof will be my undoing eventually... Tho the mage has firepower up the wazoo.  Short casting/instant firepower.

The mage amuses me most just for the spell effects.  Arcane Missles is so what I imagine 'Magic Missle' really looking like.  Sheep is hilarious.  Some of the shaman spells I've seen are good for that too... some shaman centaurs out in Barrens cast this lightning storm thing that looks really neat.

Alkiera

[Zetor]

(slight warlock detour)
Once you get the felhunter at 30, you will absolutely obliterate mages. You can dispel their sheep at will (they won't be able to kill your felhunter quickly enough) and you can silence them for a coup d' grace when they're low on hitpoints. Dots and drain life are the order of the day! :p The only mage that stands a chance is an uber geared ice-spec one, iceblock to clear dots and hit you with some 4000 damage frostbolts. Still, if you have soul link, it's 50-50.
Warlocks are fun in pvp now (yay deathcoil!) I still hate the uselessness of fear/seduce though. Fucking undead.. I shouldda rolled horde, then I wouldn't have to put up with elves either. 
The alliance version of the succubus and felhunter quests is similar, both have you go to the barrens (succy quest is right next to camp taurajo, felhunter quest is in a hut near ratchet) which is a barrel of fun at level 20, as you can imagine. kekeke.


-- Z.
"the more you know"

[cevik]

(slight warlock detour)
Once you get the felhunter at 30, you will absolutely obliterate mages. You can dispel their sheep at will (they won't be able to kill your felhunter quickly enough) and you can silence them for a coup d' grace when they're low on hitpoints. Dots and drain life are the order of the day! :p The only mage that stands a chance is an uber geared ice-spec one, iceblock to clear dots and hit you with some 4000 damage frostbolts. Still, if you have soul link, it's 50-50.
Warlocks are fun in pvp now (yay deathcoil!) I still hate the uselessness of fear/seduce though. Fucking undead.. I shouldda rolled horde, then I wouldn't have to put up with elves either. 
The alliance version of the succubus and felhunter quests is similar, both have you go to the barrens (succy quest is right next to camp taurajo, felhunter quest is in a hut near ratchet) which is a barrel of fun at level 20, as you can imagine. kekeke.

36 is what I'm driving for with my Felhunter.  Spell Lock for the Win.

That and 42, man I want deathcoil.  At 47 I'm going to be a Nightfall/Ruin Spec, with the felhunter, I should be able to destroy in the battlegrounds.  I can't wait! :)

I'm not planning on respecing to Soul Link until I hit 60.  I figure Soul Link rocks, but I can't imagine it's usefullness without Nightfall or Shadowburn, and since you can't really have Soul Link + one of those in the 40-49 bracket, I'm going to go Nightfall/Ruin for the mega burst damage.  Does that make sense, or should I rethink my Soul Link plans and do Soul Link straight away at 40?

[Zetor]

Wellll... I'd say go pure affliction until 60 (NO downtime at all.. mix in the 15% stamina talent and shadowburn after 40), but then, I prefer convenience to wtfpwning everyone in pvp. :P With dark pact you'll not run out of mana, ever; it makes for crazy effective grinding and sustainability in group pvp. Ruin is handy though, but it doesn't help much when PvEing. And there's a lot of PvEing to be done to get through the hell levels of 40-50, or 50-60, depending on whom you ask.
I'd say the classic afflic build (31aff/5-8dem/12-15des) is still solid, even at 60. You get unpredictable burst damage via nightfall and predictable burst damage via shadowburn, killer dots, an easy way to kite warriors and pallies, amplify curse for your CoA or CoEx... though it doesn't really shine until you get a ton of +shadow damage to go with it. Oh yeah, now with death coil and felhunter silence, you can simply wait until a nf proc, then silence, shadowbolt, shadowburn, deathcoil, shadowbolt (or fear if the enemy isn't undead... sigh), perhaps toss in an immolate.
Of the alternatives, I think Master Demonologist / Ruin is kind of blah compared to Soul Link / Nightfall (the new soul link rocks), you need tons of purples to make Conflagrate work, and SM / Ruin does ok in pve and organized group pvp, but otherwise you'll get messed up bad due to lack of demonic embrace.


-- Z.

[cevik]

Wellll... I'd say go pure affliction until 60 (NO downtime at all.. mix in the 15% stamina talent and shadowburn after 40), but then, I prefer convenience to wtfpwning everyone in pvp. :P With dark pact you'll not run out of mana, ever; it makes for crazy effective grinding and sustainability in group pvp. Ruin is handy though, but it doesn't help much when PvEing. And there's a lot of PvEing to be done to get through the hell levels of 40-50, or 50-60, depending on whom you ask.
I'd say the classic afflic build (31aff/5-8dem/12-15des) is still solid, even at 60. You get unpredictable burst damage via nightfall and predictable burst damage via shadowburn, killer dots, an easy way to kite warriors and pallies, amplify curse for your CoA or CoEx... though it doesn't really shine until you get a ton of +shadow damage to go with it. Oh yeah, now with death coil and felhunter silence, you can simply wait until a nf proc, then silence, shadowbolt, shadowburn, deathcoil, shadowbolt (or fear if the enemy isn't undead... sigh), perhaps toss in an immolate.
Of the alternatives, I think Master Demonologist / Ruin is kind of blah compared to Soul Link / Nightfall (the new soul link rocks), you need tons of purples to make Conflagrate work, and SM / Ruin does ok in pve and organized group pvp, but otherwise you'll get messed up bad due to lack of demonic embrace.

Well, odds are I'll try pretty much every spec.  I plan to get to 42 then do most of my leveling via turn ins from the battleground until 50.  I'd like to have legionaire rank eq (at least) banked before I move on to 50+.  I expect to spend quite awhile in 40-49, unless I just get burned out on pvp (which is doubtful).  The problem with the Nightfall/Ruin build at 47 is that leaves no points for DE, so I'm going to be hurting without that 15% additional stamina.  On the flip side burst damage should be through the roof. 

At 50 I'll respec to whatever is best to grind (dark pact + de, working in sb when I get enough points), and grind my way up to 60. 

[Kail]

Stupid n00b question here, maybe someone can give me a hand:

I'm playing a level 26 Undead Warlock on a PvE server.  I'm in the southern barrens about to turn in a quest when some 29 Night Elf Hunter jumps out and kacks the quest giver.  He challenges me to a duel, so I summon my succubus and accept.  I've done a bit of PvP, but I've never duelled with someone of the opposite faction, nor am I really that familiar with the warlock in a PvP role, so I was wondering if maybe someone can tell me what went on here:

I figured I'd off his pet first, so I had my succubus seduce the hunter.  I see the hearts coming out, assume it worked, I target the pet, and the hunter opens up with some kind of blast that takes off about 2/3 of my life.  I try to cast fear, but I'm dead before it finishes.  Or rather, I fell down like I had died, but then I got back up, only with almost no life.  So I'm running across the badlands trying to get away, and make it maybe thirty feet before getting cut down dead for real.

Anyway, I have no clue what happened there, and no idea why I got my ass handed to me so sompletely.  I'm not geared very well at all (wearing mostly low-end stuff I've sewn/enchanted myself), and I was outclassed by a few levels, but the guy just FLATTENED me (I didn't even deal a single point of damage to him, or his pet, as far as I know).  Any advice?  Some obvious n00b mistake I missed?  Or is that normal?

[Zetor]

He used aimed shot (one of the first talents to get if you're a hunter)... I presume AS hit just as your succubus seduced him (concurrency IS possible in wow.. on my warrior I've seen me and my opponent charging each other simultaneously, it's quite amusing to watch), it has a 3 sec interruptable cast time while seduce has 1.5. After AS hit you, the pet finished you off. Another possibility is that he had aggro (or a dot still ticking on him) that broke seduce.

After he killed you, your succubus despawned, so seduce broke... then when you tried to run, he probably used concussive shot and then just pwned you in teh face™. :panda

I've noticed that he was level 29 and in the barrens... this screams "20-29 WSG twink". He probably had level 28-29 blues enchanted with end-game stuff (like +15 agility... did his weapons glow pale green?) and enough hitpoints to outlast you several times over. Hunters are normally NOT this harsh, especially once you get deathcoil to deal with those fscking beast-spec hunters. Gawd, I hate beast-spec.

If it's any consolation, my warlock died approximately 60 times while doing the succubus and felhunter quests, almost always to 60 rogues. Gotta love questing in red zones. :P


-- Z.

[Merusk]

Since you were dueling, you don't actually die. That was the first 'fall down like I was dead.'  Duels aren't to the death, just until the last 5-10 hps or so.  Of course, since he had killed a quest giver, he was flagged as PVP and you flagged yourself by hitting him in the duel.  It's a sneaky thing some folks do in order to gank the uninformed.

As to the rest, I concur with Zetor's assessment, except that part about Hunters being easy to own.  :-D  Aimed Shot from Stealth is luv on any Lock except the ones smart enough to worry about stamina instead of int.  (Not fucking many.)  Hey Locks! You have a spell that converts health to mana, and can mana battery your pet.. stop pissing about INT.

[Zetor]

Doh, yeah, missed the 'duel' part.. thought you soulstoned up after dying. Yeah, what Merusk said.

About hunters... it really depends on spec. Beast spec is Bad For You, wyvern is easyish if you have a succ or imp (don't see many of these), and marksman hunters really depend on you seduce-nuking them (seduce, nuke, reseduce, repeat while fearing the pet away) most of the time, especially if they have one of those crossbows that crit for 3.5k hp with an aimed shot. Me, I prefer dotting them up, rooting them with a net-o-matic, standing in their deadzone and spamming Drain Life, but I'm EEEEEVOL. Oh yeah, dot icons remain under their target box if they feign death... don't be fooled.

Also, like Merusk said, stamina stamina stamina! Demonic Embrace 5/5 is a *must* in high-level pvp, as is loading up on HP. Thankfully, most warlock-oriented gear has +sta and +shadow damage, so it's easy to spot. Once you get to the high levels, dreadmist can tide you over until you can score some of the nice stuff from Dire Maul and random strat/scholo/brs bosses. I have 4.5k HP unbuffed at level 60, and that's without any raid gear. My mana pool sucks, but that's what Dark Pact / Lifetap are for, yo.


-- Z.

[Alkiera]

I've noticed that he was level 29 and in the barrens... this screams "20-29 WSG twink". He probably had level 28-29 blues enchanted with end-game stuff (like +15 agility... did his weapons glow pale green?) and enough hitpoints to outlast you several times over. Hunters are normally NOT this harsh, especially once you get deathcoil to deal with those fscking beast-spec hunters. Gawd, I hate beast-spec.

yeah, that's kinda what I thought.  Even a hunter shouldn't be able to take off THAT much of a caster's life with a single shot.  I agree it's probably a rather massive equipment disparity.

If it's any consolation, my warlock died approximately 60 times while doing the succubus and felhunter quests, almost always to 60 rogues. Gotta love questing in red zones. :P

I guess I was fortunate, the horde Succubus quest had me go into contested territory(Stone Talon Mountains) to talk to some people, but I didn't meet any Alliance while there.  I've even been back there and done some hunting since then, and have yet to see many alliance.  I'm guessing all the 60 rogues are too busy farming runecloth bandages or silithid shells or whatever.  Lucky!

Alkiera

[Zetor]

Yeah, alliance rarely go to stonetalon or ashenvale... they're too remote and the quests suck. I don't think any of my chars have done a single quest in those two zones, or even unlocked the griffon in stonetalon to begin with. Ashenvale is only useful as a stopping point before unlocking felwood and azshara later on.

Alliance warlocks have it worse because even getting to the spot involves either a run past the WSG portal full of bored 60s (then the crossroads, then camp taurajo) or a run through a 35-45 zone (then running to camp taurajo from the south). And then you gotta find the quest giver which is a barrel of fun in enemy territory.

Like I said, plenty of dying, especially since you have to go to ashenvale for the second part of the succubus quest... and Ratchet for the felhunter quest! What's worse, the warlock hut is outside guard range, so bored horde can (and do) gank with impunity. But when it's all said and done, it's just an hour or two of downtime and a few names for the shitlist. "Oh sure, those horde might be 60 now... but I will be too, one day."


-- Z.
forged by hellfire, yo

[Fabricated]

I've noticed that he was level 29 and in the barrens... this screams "20-29 WSG twink". He probably had level 28-29 blues enchanted with end-game stuff (like +15 agility... did his weapons glow pale green?) and enough hitpoints to outlast you several times over. Hunters are normally NOT this harsh, especially once you get deathcoil to deal with those fscking beast-spec hunters. Gawd, I hate beast-spec.

yeah, that's kinda what I thought.  Even a hunter shouldn't be able to take off THAT much of a caster's life with a single shot.  I agree it's probably a rather massive equipment disparity.

If it's any consolation, my warlock died approximately 60 times while doing the succubus and felhunter quests, almost always to 60 rogues. Gotta love questing in red zones. :P

I guess I was fortunate, the horde Succubus quest had me go into contested territory(Stone Talon Mountains) to talk to some people, but I didn't meet any Alliance while there.  I've even been back there and done some hunting since then, and have yet to see many alliance.  I'm guessing all the 60 rogues are too busy farming runecloth bandages or silithid shells or whatever.  Lucky!

Alkiera

I don't recall ever seeing much Alliance activity in Stonetalon. There's the odd quest that requires visiting there or passing through, but a lot of people skip/don't find them, or don't have to spend much time there. I've barely passed through there with my main and alts. Most of the really bad ganking goes on in the Eastern Kingdoms. The Badlands and Arathi are about the worst for that at lower levels, and at higher levels you can expect it at Thorium Point.

[Alkiera]

I don't recall ever seeing much Alliance activity in Stonetalon. There's the odd quest that requires visiting there or passing through, but a lot of people skip/don't find them, or don't have to spend much time there. I've barely passed through there with my main and alts. Most of the really bad ganking goes on in the Eastern Kingdoms. The Badlands and Arathi are about the worst for that at lower levels, and at higher levels you can expect it at Thorium Point.

Cool.  So, now I know where to hunt where I can find peace and quiet and not a lot of competition for kills.  I did a quest for some goblin in Ratchet that wanted spider eggs from there... I think I saw 2 other people in that area, and they were both horde.  And chat was basically dead.

Alkiera

[Phred]

I don't recall ever seeing much Alliance activity in Stonetalon. There's the odd quest that requires visiting there or passing through, but a lot of people skip/don't find them, or don't have to spend much time there. I've barely passed through there with my main and alts. Most of the really bad ganking goes on in the Eastern Kingdoms. The Badlands and Arathi are about the worst for that at lower levels, and at higher levels you can expect it at Thorium Point.

Cool.  So, now I know where to hunt where I can find peace and quiet and not a lot of competition for kills.  I did a quest for some goblin in Ratchet that wanted spider eggs from there... I think I saw 2 other people in that area, and they were both horde.  And chat was basically dead.

Alkiera

About the only thing you'll have  a problem with in Stonetalon is 30'ish level alliance passing through the charred vale on the way to desolace. There's a few quests in Stonetalon but as was mentioned most don't find them or bother with them. I think I've got the flight point on 2 of my 6 alliance characters who could have it. It's pretty well a dead end for alliance there.

[Jayce]

There is an alliance warrior quest for a nice (for the level) chestpiece at like mid 20s (I think) that involves gathering in the Charred Vale.

My friends and I like to do the quests there just to get some world PvP experience starting early.  But I agree that I mostly see Horde there - it's pretty rare to see a fellow Alliance.

[Alkiera]

There is an alliance warrior quest for a nice (for the level) chestpiece at like mid 20s (I think) that involves gathering in the Charred Vale.

My friends and I like to do the quests there just to get some world PvP experience starting early.  But I agree that I mostly see Horde there - it's pretty rare to see a fellow Alliance.

I had some quests to go into Ashenvale... Got killed twice, once by a near-my level NE hunter, and again pretty quickly by a ?? priest.  I was delivering some information and gather reports from various warsong scouts, or something.  I eventually got holed up in splintertree, or some such, as there was a group of alliance attacking people as they came out.  Some 54 priest was trying to fight them, but was unsuccessful.

Some ?? alliance just ignore me, or wave.  Others just kill me.  Heh.

Alkiera