XBox 360 scratches discs

[Samwise]

Basically if you move the console even one degree while it is running or put anything on the top of it (when it is lying on its side) it causes the laser housing to contact the disk.

Bold mine.  Is this an exaggeration?  Because if not... well, it's not hard for me to imagine a momentary one degree tilt or equivalent jostle in the course of normal operation. If it's that sensitive, your disk would get fucked up every time a large truck goes by.  Or if you brush against the console while you're reaching for something next to it (like the other controller).  Or if you look at it funny.

[Hoax]

Schild, you are like the people over at [H] who are good folks, I used to frequent those boards for PC advise during upgrade cycles.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=OTM5LDE=

You are not normal when it comes to consoles, how can PC gaming be dying because "drivers are hard"tm yet Xbox360 can't be bumped into without eating a disk.  I've lived in regular gamer households, you know a bunch of college aged guys who sit around and play games all evening except on poker nights.  The consoles will get hit, you can only throw so many parties at your house before somebody has kicked everything in your living room.  So dont tell me it is user error to have a cat, or a kid.  Thats not user error that is just typical Microsoft bullshit.

[Big Gulp]

Only $400!

- Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to the XBox 360.
- Caution: The XBox 360 may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
- The XBox 360 Contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
- Do not use the XBox 360 on carpet.


Discontinue use of the XBox 360 if any of the following occurs:
- Itching
- Vertigo
- Dizziness
- Tingling in extremities
- Loss of balance or coordination
- Slurred speech
- Temporary blindness
- Profuse sweating
- Heart palpitations

If the XBox 360 begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.

The XBox 360 may stick to certain types of skin.

When not in use, the XBox 360 should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...

Failure to do so relieves the makers of the XBox 360, and its parent company Microsoft, of any and all liability.

Ingredients of the XBox 360 include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.

The XBox 360 has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.

Do not taunt the XBox 360.

The XBox 360 comes with a lifetime guarantee.

The XBox 360

ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!

[Margalis]

Apparently if you take a running XBox 360 and move it enough to pull a cord out from underneath it that can maul discs. It's a design flaw. If you tilt the machine will the disc is spinning the disc grinds into some casing.

My favorite line was "just because you can put it on it's side doesn't mean you should." Are you for real? If they advertise that you can put it on it's side and in pictures it is on the side putting it on it's side shouldn't cause problems. What next? Just because you can play games on it doesn't mean you should?

As I said, consoles are consumer electronics devices. They should be able to withstand minor bumps, be placed on a carpet, etc. Part of the whole appeal of consoles is the appeal to a more casual play environment - play on a couch with friends eating pizza rather than at you computer at your desk.

It's just bad design, and there is no reason to apologize for it. The PS1 and PS2 also had pretty bad problems initially with the lens getting out of alignment. It happens. It doesn't mean the system as a whole sucks, but it certainly isn't a good thing.

[Brolan]

God Damn!  What started as my simple attempt to warn people about scratching their XBox 360 discs has turned into a hand grenade chucked into the forums.

To get back to the original subject I burned a crap DVD and tried to replicate what happened to see how fragile the system is.  While I was able to get some light scratching by "adjusting" it's position while it was reading the disc, it was nothing like what happened to the COD 2 disc.  I didn't want to stress it too much so thats the limit of my motion experimenting.  

The kids say it wasn't bumped, and it is in a corner so you would have to work at bumping it.  It did have 2 of the wireless controllers on top of it but my testing of that did not result in any scratching.

So, I'm not sure what happened.  The kids did have some friends over and any parent knows what that means.  Am I pissed at Microsoft?  No, not yet.  I'm not sure how bad this problem is yet.

[eldaec]

God Damn!  What started as my simple attempt to warn people about scratching their XBox 360 discs has turned into a hand grenade chucked into the forums.

I wouldn't worry, this is pretty much the natural state of the forums when discussing the inadequacies/robot-jesus-nature [delete as appropriate] of console hardware.

Dynamic equilibrium. As my old chemistry teacher would refer to it.

[Triforcer]

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/26/technology/xbox/index.htm?cnn=yes

More XBox evil.  We need to get Schild and the rest of the xtrolls on the defensive to curb the inevitable anti-Revolution lies. 

[Merusk]

"It's not that our game are derivitive suck-ass pieces of shit that are overpriced by $10-$15.. it's that Microsoft didn't sell enough X-boxes!"

Riiiiight.

[Margalis]

I dunno if I'd call that evil. Their logic seems to be that people were waiting to buy 360s so they didn't buy the other console versions, and then didn't get a 360 either because of the shortage. This really only applies to companies that have 360 versions of games that are also available on other systems. I'm sure Rare sales didn't take a hit this quarter.

[HaemishM]

I love CNN.

The Xbox may be to blame, said the report, because consumers who couldn't get the console in time for the holidays might be holding out on buying games until they can get an Xbox console next year.

Yes, because most kids LOVE to get games they can't play for systems they don't own because there weren't enough shipped. Most kids really just stare at the fucking box and DROOL instead of wanting to put it in the system. What kind of retard thinks that statement above is anything but common sense?

Microsoft didn't produce enough, produced a generation with flawed hardware simply because they wanted to be first. This seems to be "Same as it ever was" v. 2.0, the Console Years.

[Jain Zar]

Am I wrong for enjoying Schild getting burned by shitty hardware he fanboyed up again?

[Triforcer]

Am I wrong for enjoying Schild getting burned by shitty hardware he fanboyed up again?

If that's wrong, I don't want to be right.

[schild]

Am I wrong for enjoying Schild getting burned by shitty hardware he fanboyed up again?

But i'm not getting burned. Apparently everyone else is.

[Jain Zar]

Am I wrong for enjoying Schild getting burned by shitty hardware he fanboyed up again?

But i'm not getting burned. Apparently everyone else is.

Ive seen the PSP and 360 game libraries.  You got fucked right there.  Even if you do treat your systems like 1000 year old vases.
The shitty software fucked you alone.

[schild]

Yea, because Fantavision made the PS2 so worth buying on launch day. Seriously. If it's a matter of getting fucked by early adopting, I've been fucked by every console released. Whoopdy fucking doo.

If you wanna talk about fucked, I bought the Jaguar the first week it was out. Thank god I didn't spring for a 3D0 or CDI.

[Triforcer]

 Thank god I didn't spring for a 3D0 or CDI.

That's a shame- you could have reviewed the greatest of all Zelda games for us.  Wand of Gamelon ftw!

[Strazos]

I laugh at the man who thought making the art assets for that game in MS Paint was a good idea.

[Brolan]

If you wanna talk about fucked, I bought the Jaguar the first week it was out. Thank god I didn't spring for a 3D0 or CDI.

Good friend of mine bought that, I thought it was a pretty slick little system.  Would have gotten one myself if I had the scratch.  Too bad it never caught on.

[schild]

If you wanna talk about fucked, I bought the Jaguar the first week it was out. Thank god I didn't spring for a 3D0 or CDI.

Good friend of mine bought that, I thought it was a pretty slick little system.  Would have gotten one myself if I had the scratch.  Too bad it never caught on.

Cannon Fodder is still the only console RTS I ever thought was good.

[Rodent]

If you wanna talk about fucked, I bought the Jaguar the first week it was out. Thank god I didn't spring for a 3D0 or CDI.

Good friend of mine bought that, I thought it was a pretty slick little system.  Would have gotten one myself if I had the scratch.  Too bad it never caught on.

Cannon Fodder is still the only console RTS I ever thought was good.

Cannon Fodder should be played on a Amiga damnit.

[schild]

But then you don't get the lyrics for the music. And trust me, everything about that music was just out there.

[Rodent]

You did get the "War, never been so much fun" lyrics, not sure if there was anymore songs with vocals in the game.

[Azazel]

It's not that everyone is a liar. Just because the xbox 360 can be sat vertically doesn't mean it should be.

Awesome reply, considering that it's one of the points that MS is selling the thing on, not to mention showing it as.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox360/default.htm

If it really shouldn't be set vertically, they really shouldn't be showing it off like that in 50% of their adverts... guess that's just dumb consumers, thinking that setting it up like the one on the box is okay. 

[schild]

I wonder how many people sat the original ps2 vertically. I'd imagine tilting that tray loader while it was running would scratch DVDs also. But then, I still can't see why, while a system was running (especially one with wireless controllers), it would ever be tilted. Ever. There aren't cables for a kid or pet to trip over. And that's where my real problem lies, all the complaints I've heard of this involve people tilting the system while it's reading the disc. I also don't see why that's only strange to ME.

[Azazel]

I don't know either, but there sure are a fuckton of those vertical stands available several years into the console's life, and 3rd party ones, too. So someone must be.

I second the Cannon Fodder thought for Amiga. Though I never thought of the game as a RTS.

Finally, fanboi-ism and fanboi-taunting aside, if Schild is happy with the libraries for 360 and PSP, then more power to him. If he's happy, then he probably hasn't been fucked. Or maybe he got fucked in the good way. Either way, it's no skin off my nose if he's having a great time with his new toys.

[Azazel]

Yes, my ability to not have broken hardware and to never having experienced ANY of the problems on ANY of the consoles that people talk about here or anywhere surely is a fault of mine. I mean, comeon, I'm MR. First Gen Hardware. At least ONE of my consoles surely should have fucked up by now. But no, Guitar Hero broke one and monster cables (wretched pieces of shit) wrecked the A/V inputs on another. Yes, I'm the funky outlier.

Wow!

That would be, what? 6 whole first-gen consoles that didn't fuck up? Maybe 10?
360-XBox-ps1-ps2-GCN-PSP-Saturn-DC
um..
DS (did that have problems?).. are we counting the catridge-type consoles? they seem pretty damned robust (GBA/SNES/Gen/etc) - Virtual Boy FTW~!


Or 1 in each release of about 1,000,000 or so machines's initial splash?

Yeah, pretty easy not to hit those odds, actually. Unless the release fuckup rate is like 20% or higher on each new machine. And even then, very doable to make your saving throw each time and get a "good one". Add like a 5% bonus to your saving throw if you keep your electronic toys as carefully as you seem to.

So yeah, taking care of your consoles will obviously lessen the chances of some of these fuckups, but it's still easy enough to buy 1st-gen each time and get lucky. It's not like a new console comes out monthly, or even annually, after all.

hm, thought I posted this one earlier..

[schild]

Never said I was happy with the libraries. And in a thread where someone was asking how to spend money, I said they should buy the DS if they want fun now. And only 3 of the systems you named were tray loaders - The Xbox, the 360 and the original fatty ps2. Of those, only one has an actual first party stand, the ps2 and the original xbox was never meant to be sat vertically - you'd be covering up one of the air flow passages. So really, how did discs not get scratched til now? I bet they have, actually. But in 2001, console bitching and moaning on the internet wasn't exactly the IN thing to do. So while the problem may or may not have existed, it wouldn't have spread like wildfire. I'm tempted to go buy a $0.60 copy of Madden 2001 to test this theory out actually as having worked at EB Games and Gamestop, I've seen concentric rings on PS2 discs, though they may have been caused by total idiots seating them wrong in the new PS2.

What I'm getting at, this PARTICULAR problem can only exist in three of the systems. Hard drive failure can only exist in two systems. Overheating was a problem consistant with first gen PS2s, so that's not new. Basically, Microsoft is taking a lot of flak publically because the internet is the devil.

That said:

The PSP has had a terrible run lately. They need games. But I'm happy with it's ability to run emulators, and PSP UMD movies are luv. There's also a small handful of games I really enjoy. Lumines is still better than anything on the DS. But for the most part, I'd rather have the variety of the DS (and it does have Battles: Prince of Persia, card based TBS 4tw and whatnot). HOWEVER, the PSP has massive pile of games coming out that I'm eagerly awaiting PQ: Practical Intelligence Quotient (the sequel to intelligent qube) comes out this week, and in the next six months we have: Mega Man - Maverick Hunter X, Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX, Mortal Kombat: Deception Unleashed, Xyanide, GT4 Mobile, Ys: The Ark of Napishtim, Generation of Chaos (fuck yea!), Untold Legends 2: Warriors Code or sommat, Splinter Cell Essentials, Monster Hunter Freedom, the remake of Mega Man 1, Field Commander (SOE rips of Advance Wars and makes it realistic modern combat? yes plz), Metal Gear Ac!d 2, Guilty Gear Judgement, and Me & My Katamari. That's all that's been announced I believe. There's been no firm release date on Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core (much to my dismay, but it doesn't matter since Squeenix doesn't have their shit together).

The Xbox 360 has a lot of games in the pipe I'm looking forward too. Dead or Alive 4 and the upcoming release of Street Fighter II` Hyper Fighting is reason enough for me to purchase the system. Sure, I love innovation and look forward to Lost Odyssey, Lost Planet, Alan Wake, Mass Effect, and a mess of other [admittedly less innovative] titles (it is the console's first year after all). But they aren't here yet. Your average consumer has no reason to purchase a 360 yet (which is in my 360 writeup that I haven't posted yet...because it's nowhere near complete) and would be wise to avoid the first gen - as it seems your average computer can't tell which side is up on the goddamn console and likes to spin it like a top while waiting for a game to load.

[Azazel]

Never said I was happy with the libraries. And in a thread where someone was asking how to spend money, I said they should buy the DS if they want fun now.

No, I seriously wasn't knocking you for your PSP or 360 love. If you're enjoying them, then by all means love it!

And only 3 of the systems you named were tray loaders - The Xbox, the 360 and the original fatty ps2. Of those, only one has an actual first party stand, the ps2 and the original xbox was never meant to be sat vertically - you'd be covering up one of the air flow passages. So really, how did discs not get scratched til now? I bet they have, actually. But in 2001, console bitching and moaning on the internet wasn't exactly the IN thing to do. So while the problem may or may not have existed, it wouldn't have spread like wildfire. I'm tempted to go buy a $0.60 copy of Madden 2001 to test this theory out actually as having worked at EB Games and Gamestop, I've seen concentric rings on PS2 discs, though they may have been caused by total idiots seating them wrong in the new PS2.

Um, I was replying to you calling yourself "MR First-Generation" and asking why you've never had any of these problems you hear about on teh intraweb. Nothing to do with tray-loaders vs pop-tops vs carts so much as relating to the problems people were reporting on 1st-gen PSPs.. one of the buttons not working properly, or the D-pad, or whatever the issues exactly were.
That's why I listed all those systems, basically assuming you were referring to more than the last few years of console toys in your self-title.

I certainly wasn't proposing that people were standing the original X-Box on it's side, I was talking about 3rd party ps2 stands and the new ads all over the place showing the 360 on it's side. Note that the images we've seen of the Rev and PS3 also have the units depicted on their sides. I'd also hazard that most scratched discs end up that way because people don't take care of their shit, rather then the console grinding them down into a fine powder.

What I'm getting at, this PARTICULAR problem can only exist in three of the systems. Hard drive failure can only exist in two systems. Overheating was a problem consistant with first gen PS2s, so that's not new. Basically, Microsoft is taking a lot of flak publically because the internet is the devil.

As I said just then, I wasn't talking about just this specific problem, I was talking about how you've avoided the 1st-gen fuckups of the various consoles, and pointing out that it's not really that hard to have done, even if you've bought every mainstream gamebox since the SNES/Genesis era.

The PSP has had a terrible run lately. They need games. But I'm happy with it's ability to run emulators, and PSP UMD movies are luv.

Now this has the potential to be interesting. I'm sure that Sony is eyeing off the new video iPod with interest. Considering that video mp3 players allow you to put whateverthefuckyouwant onto them, and that they're trying to stamp out homebrew in favour of selling shitty little UMDs that can't be played anywhere else (PS3, I'm sure, later).. yes, interesting to watch Apple's upcoming sales figures, and Sony's PSP reaction,  if any....

[schild]

No, I seriously wasn't knocking you for your PSP or 360 love. If you're enjoying them, then by all means love it!

I'm willing to buy something based on it's potential. I really love Xbox Live right now - what they've done is amazing. As far as a total package goes, the games are still lacking. As to be expected.

Um, I was replying to you calling yourself "MR First-Generation" and asking why you've never had any of these problems you hear about on teh intraweb. Nothing to do with tray-loaders vs pop-tops vs carts so much as relating to the problems people were reporting on 1st-gen PSPs.. one of the buttons not working properly, or the D-pad, or whatever the issues exactly were.

The square button problem was fixed when the PSP came to America. It only exists in a small batch of first gen 1.00 models in Japan. As for other problems, I don't know. Look at the random people you group with in MMOGs. Would it shock you to find out that they're fucking idiots with their consoles too? And they're the type of people who would yell about that shit on the internet? If the glove fits...

That's why I listed all those systems, basically assuming you were referring to more than the last few years of console toys in your self-title.

Yea, I've bought the first gen of a lot of stuff. Some stuff I regret, like the Game Gear, TG16, N64, Jaguar (and the Jaguar CD), etc. But that's because the game support was never there. And I'm not being half jokey when I say the N64 wasn't worth it. The 3D shit on that system never felt right to me. And positively nothing about the system felt like next gen stuff when it came out. The playstation and eventually the dreamcast positively blew the pants off of it. Also, cartidges? I remember paying $60-$70 for most N64 games and they looked like muddy shit. But ANYWAY, yea, I've purchased a lot of first generation hardware.

I certainly wasn't proposing that people were standing the original X-Box on it's side, I was talking about 3rd party ps2 stands and the new ads all over the place showing the 360 on it's side. Note that the images we've seen of the Rev and PS3 also have the units depicted on their sides. I'd also hazard that most scratched discs end up that way because people don't take care of their shit, rather then the console grinding them down into a fine powder.

I've addressed this. The PS3 and Revolution are slot loading systems. They will not have the issue the tray loading 360 has. It's a terrible design decision. As for the PS2, it's not meant to be stood up on it's side without a stand, probably for this exact reason. If you look at the stands that came out for the original fatty ps2, they were very wide and basically doubled or tripled the thickness of the system at the base to it wouldn't tip in the slightest. The system was already pretty sturdy standing on it's own, but not sturdy enough. If it fell over, surely it would have a good chance of fucking up a game. Sony recognized this and fixed it big time. By putting one of those little noduled rings in a top loader, the edges of the DVDs have no real way of touching anything, even if you were to spin the system. I wouldn't be surprised if some day Microsoft has a solution to this problem. But for now, it's just a matter of being careful - and my gripe is with the loud ones scattered across the net making a huffy puffy sound because they can't be careful.

selling shitty little UMDs that can't be played anywhere else (PS3, I'm sure, later)

Won't happen. Resolution on one of those is 480x272.

[HaemishM]

No, I seriously wasn't knocking you for your PSP or 360 love. If you're enjoying them, then by all means love it!

I'm willing to buy something based on it's potential.

But you aren't willing to buy MMOG's on potential. 

I'm not willing to buy anything based on its potential, only what it has done/can do for me lately.

[Morfiend]

Is it just me, or is this thread infused with the spirit of Sir Bruce?

[Jain Zar]

I don't think Ys: The Ark of Naptshim counts as a reason to have a PSP seeing as you can already get it for the PS2.
Ports don't count as reasons to buy a system.  Otherwise I can say my Mac runs the Call of Duty games as a reason to
own one.  (Original and expansion out now, CoD2 due this year some time, but Aspyr is trying and failing to keep the
port a secret.  Even though they mentioned it in the CoD collected box..)

Honestly, that's my biggest beef with the PSP at the moment. Its 90% watered down PS2 ports you still have to pay
50 fucking dollars for.  (Hell, 360 too.)  And the games that aren't ports are watered down portable versions of games
we already have on the half the price home consoles.  Yes, Nintendo does this too.  But its CHEAPER on the portables,
and is designed for the portable platform's strengths, giving fans another reason to buy the system and the game, to
have a new game of their favorite series on the go.

Im so glad I bought an N Gage instead.  Yes it did suck.  No it doesn't now.  Packed full of inexpensive, exclusive, and
GREAT portable games, plus giving me a cellphone for emergencies.  Pathway to Glory > Every other turn based
tactics styled game of the last 2 years, portable or not.

[Strazos]

This is why I refuse to buy a console at launch nowadays. The last, and only, time I got a console at launch was the N64, which I actually liked. I was perfectly happy with Mario64 and Pilotwings64 as launch titles.

A little bit of patience now saves a whole lot of money and headache.

[Margalis]

Honestly, that's my biggest beef with the PSP at the moment. Its 90% watered down PS2 ports you still have to pay
50 fucking dollars for.  (Hell, 360 too.)  And the games that aren't ports are watered down portable versions of games
we already have on the half the price home consoles.  Yes, Nintendo does this too.  But its CHEAPER on the portables,
and is designed for the portable platform's strengths, giving fans another reason to buy the system and the game, to
have a new game of their favorite series on the go.

Actually Nintendo is pretty good in this regard. You can't get Fire Emblem or Advance Wars games on consoles, or really any 2d tactics games. (I'm discounting the newest GC Fire Emblem since it just came out) Mario Kart and Animal Forest have network play compared to their console counterparts, and then there are games like Under the Knife, Phoenix Wright, etc. There are very few basically straight ports on the GBA.