XBox 360 scratches discs

[Jeff Kelly]

I gotta be honest, after what you've said, I just don't want to buy anything from your company.

I'd be glad if it was just our customers who'd want it cheap. As far as I know it is more of a state of the industry address. Big retail chains like Wal Mart, Best Buy in the US or Media Markt or Saturn in germany have pretty much ruined quality hardware development regardless whether we are talking about televisions, hi-fi systems or computer equipment. Media Markt recently sold a no name DVD player for 19 Euros, this is less than the cost of manufacturing, hell with a $5 licence fee for the mpeg2 codec you coudn't break even at this price. They pressure deliverers and simply refuse to buy hardware from anyone that doesn't meet their price points. They can because they have nearly crushed most small retailers and have virtually no competition anymore.

Every week another manufacturer of vintage consumer equipment dies because they cannot compete against the cheaply produced sub-par hardware coming from china or taiwan. And if the $99 stereo dies after half a year who cares? Just toss it and buy something new. Nobody will buy the Euro 5000 Loewe LCD Television if Media Markt sells a no name china brand for Euro 1999. It might not be HDTV ready and will die after 2 years because of crappy components but it will still sell like shit

Saturn even has the slogan "geiz ist geil" (avarice is cool) to drive the point home.

No the reality of the business is cheap >> quality except for a few select brands that cater to the uber crowd. We constantly lose business to other companies that produce shit 10 cent or 1 euro cheaper than we could. Well ours might be better quality but no one cares as long as it is good enough or meets some magic price point.

So you probably shouldn't buy anything from any company if you want quality.

[schild]

There hasn't been a console invented where I haven't tripped on the controller cord causing some sort of minor catastrophy. 

Cords? But anyway, accidents happen. Blaming Microsoft is weak sauce.

[Rasix]

There hasn't been a console invented where I haven't tripped on the controller cord causing some sort of minor catastrophy. 

Cords? But anyway, accidents happen. Blaming Microsoft is weak sauce.

Yes, cords.  I use the goddamn standard controllers.  Is 360 wireless? Hooray, if I got one there's still the possibility two of my cats would start a fight on top of the damn thing.  Or my nephews would bump it or something else. 

It's not weak sauce; you go into ultra-apologist mode anytime someone questions a console you like.  A console that eats it's own babies is not a technological marvel, it's a piece of shoddily designed and manufactured crap.   My gamecube has survived being dropped down stairs, my xbox has survived in an area with very little ventillation and living in an atmosphere composed of 5% cat hair, and hell, my laptop is dropped daily into the backseat of my car (in the case, but it's still an impact).  I've come to expect my consoles and electronic devices in general to put up with my clumsiness and the fact that I don't game in a clean, sterile environment. 

It's OK to like flawed things. This is clearly a severe flaw in the 360.  It's fine to acknowledge this and still enjoy it.  Trust me, I play WoW.  I can put up with flaws and crap like a pro.

[schild]

You dropped your gamecube down stairs and your laptop off your back seat while the drives were spinning and they didn't scratch discs? It's like hi-tech evil keneival. There isn't any ultra-apologist here. If my 360 isn't on I could spin the damn thing around or play quarters off of it and it wouldn't scratch discs. My consoles put up with clumsiness. I've dropped my PS2 before, my gamecube, and my original xbox for that matter. The 360 slipped out of my hands the first time I put it on the basket it sits on and dropped about 3 inches. No scratched discs from any of that. Are we seeing my point? Do you shake your laptop when it's on? If so, it's an etch-a-sketch, not a laptop.

Edit: Also, laptops are designed to be moved around. Consoles? Not so much. But I guess that goes without saying.

[Morfiend]

Like someone picks up an 360 after they've turned it on or it's on an unstable surface. Basically, it's totally user error. As the first post said, even one degree of movement. Well, sit the goddamn thing on a flat surface and don't move it after the drive closes. It's Not That Hard.

And that's completely unrealistic in most households I've ever been into.

"DON'T WALK NEAR THE TV...THE XBOX IS ON!!"

That was my first thought also. OMG IT MOVED! SAVE US!

Anyway, I also have tripped on my cords a time or two, so far none of my consoles have eaten a disk due to that. I think it IS a design flaw that a slight wiggle of the system (pull the controller cause its cord is stuck on some thing?) can destroy a disk. For the majority of console owners this is just not a feasable way to have to treat a console, weather thats the way is needs to be treated or not.

What if im playing and my cat jumps up and attacks my controller cord? this could joggle the system. Do I have to put my cat in the bathroom every time I want to play 360? Dropping it on the floor or some shit I can understand its hardware and its fragle, but it shouldnt be so fragle that a slight joggle or even just playing on its side will ruin a game. And thats just how it goes.

[Shockeye]

Rules for owning a Xbox 360:

1. No pets
2. No kids
3. No carpet
4. No earthquakes
5. No sudden movements

[schild]

The goddamn 360 doesn't have controller cords.

And Shockeye is just posting in this thread because he wants one.

[Shockeye]

The goddamn 360 doesn't have controller cords.

And Shockeye is just posting in this thread because he wants one.

I don't want a Xbox 360 as it is right now. I want one after they fix the overheating issues and the disc scratching issues. There is also no reason to buy one until I have a HDTV. I also don't want one until the price drops. Also it would be nice if there was more than one decent game for it. I don't want to hear about how great CoD2 is either. FPS games with a controller suck. That's it, that's all. Take your Xbox 360 can do no wrong fanboism and put it where the sun don't shine.

[schild]

The goddamn 360 doesn't have controller cords.

And Shockeye is just posting in this thread because he wants one.

I don't want a Xbox 360 as it is right now. I want one after they fix the overheating issues and the disc scratching issues. There is also no reason to buy one until I have a HDTV. I also don't want one until the price drops. Also it would be nice if there was more than one decent game for it. I don't want to hear about how great CoD2 is either. FPS games with a controller suck. That's it, that's all. Take your Xbox 360 can do no wrong fanboism and put it where the sun don't shine.

I couldn't read any of that through all the green fog.

[Murgos]

I don't want a Xbox 360 as it is right now. I want one after they fix the overheating issues and the disc scratching issues. There is also no reason to buy one until I have a HDTV. I also don't want one until the price drops. Also it would be nice if there was more than one decent game for it. I don't want to hear about how great CoD2 is either. FPS games with a controller suck. That's it, that's all. Take your Xbox 360 can do no wrong fanboism and put it where the sun don't shine.

See, I agree with all this and yet I still really want to play DOA 4.

[schild]

I don't want a Xbox 360 as it is right now. I want one after they fix the overheating issues and the disc scratching issues. There is also no reason to buy one until I have a HDTV. I also don't want one until the price drops. Also it would be nice if there was more than one decent game for it. I don't want to hear about how great CoD2 is either. FPS games with a controller suck. That's it, that's all. Take your Xbox 360 can do no wrong fanboism and put it where the sun don't shine.

See, I agree with all this and yet I still really want to play DOA 4.

So does Shockeye, but he has desert sand in his vagina.

[Shockeye]

I don't want a Xbox 360 as it is right now. I want one after they fix the overheating issues and the disc scratching issues. There is also no reason to buy one until I have a HDTV. I also don't want one until the price drops. Also it would be nice if there was more than one decent game for it. I don't want to hear about how great CoD2 is either. FPS games with a controller suck. That's it, that's all. Take your Xbox 360 can do no wrong fanboism and put it where the sun don't shine.

See, I agree with all this and yet I still really want to play DOA 4.

DOA4 is the only reason I can see to buy a 360. One game isn't worth $1050 + tax, though. ($400 for 360, $50 for the game, $600 for the HDTV).

[schild]

But when 10 other games come out worth playing it'll be worth $1050 + $500 (or so) + tax? I just fail to see the difference. But then, as mentioned before, early adoption never bit me in the ass.

[Strazos]

Sure, the 360 is a piece of delicate consumer electronics...but seriously, it should be able to take a certain degree of abuse - Shit Happens.

Trying to tell everyone and yourself that it's not MS's fault (at least in part) is just delusional.

Remember the IBM Deathstar drives?

[schild]

Oh, in part it's Microsoft's fault, but everyone's giving them 100% of the fault. Under the proper conditions, the 360 alone would not scratch the discs. That trick requires the help of clumsy folk.

[Rasix]

We're here.  We're clumsy. Get used to it.

[Shockeye]

Under the proper conditions, the 360 alone would not scratch the discs.

Proper conditions = a clean room cooled to 65 degrees.

[schild]

Under the proper conditions, the 360 alone would not scratch the discs.

Proper conditions = a clean room cooled to 65 degrees.

Stop being bored.

We're here.  We're clumsy. Get used to it.

"Hi, Swarovski? Yea, I bought one of your crystal animals but I was clumsy and dropped it from about an inch off my desk.... Yea, an ear fell off. How could you make something so fragile?"

Would that fly? No.

"Hi, Microsoft? Yea, I bought one of your 360s but I was clumsy and turned the damn thing on it's side while it was reading a disc and the disc got scratched.... Yea, the disc can't be read anymore. How could you make something so non-portable?"

[Shockeye]

Comparing something made of crystal to the 360 is stupid beyond belief. Get some new material.

[schild]

Comparing something made of crystal to the 360 is stupid beyond belief. Get some new material.

Saying people jostle their consoles on a regular basis is stupid beyond belief.

[HaemishM]

Children will jostle their console. Fuck, the old Atari 2600 used to get beat to fuck and back. It's being sold as a game, and as a game, kids/teenagers will want one. They WILL fuck it up, even with wireless controllers. The fact that Microsoft apparently made the fucking thing as delicate as a Fabrege Egg sounds to me like a design issue as much as consumer rutting issue.

[schild]

The fact that Microsoft apparently made the fucking thing as delicate as a Fabrege Egg sounds to me like a design issue as much as consumer rutting issue.

Which I agree with, unfortunately blaming Microsoft shouldn't be an option. When I was 5 I didn't kick my Nintendo when I got mad at it. I didn't swing it around while it was one. I didn't try turning it vertically or whatever. What the fuck makes kids start doing it now? If they do, they obviously don't deserve one. It's just that simple. Now, if the 360 when sitting still scratched discs, I'd be right there with my own torch and pitchfork. Unfortunately it doesn't. It just sits there and acts fine. We've had ours on for 15-20 hour stretches before without so much as a hitch.

[HaemishM]

When I was 5 I didn't kick my Nintendo when I got mad at it.

You are not normal then. I don't know any kids who didn't abuse the fuck out of their Atari/Nintendo as a kid.

[Shockeye]

blaming Microsoft shouldn't be an option

Yes it should. The fact that you don't think so is beyond comprehension.

[schild]

blaming Microsoft shouldn't be an option

Yes it should. The fact that you don't think so is beyond comprehension.

What the fuck are you talking about?

"Yea, Microsoft, your system scratched my disc."

"What were you doing at the time it was scratched"

"Well, my son bumped into it while it was on and knocked it off a table."

"Sir, we don't warranty against children without coordination."

"Yes, I know, but the Nintendo didn't break whe-"

"Sir, buy your kid a Nintendo then. It's cheaper anyway and it'll keep him from scratching up your 360 games. Thank you for calling Microsoft and have a nice day."

All in all this is a very simple situation for Microsoft to deal with. It's the customer's fault, whether or not it was their kid or it was an accident or whatever. Basically, fuck that passing the buck shit. Electronics aren't made like they used to be. That was already said near the beginning of the thread.

[Tebonas]

Only if the PS3 and the Revolution are made as shitty as the Xbox360 is.

Why don't we postpone the discussion until then. You just state here that this is a new industry standard by console makers, everybody else disbelieves that. Only time will tell.

[Rasix]

"Well, my son bumped into it while it was on and knocked it off a table.

What if the answer was instead, "My son bumped it and turned 15 degrees while the next level was loading"?

What should the Microsoft guy say then?

"Sir, your 360 needs a 5' halo devoid of human presence in order to operate properly. Should anyone enter this area of sanctuary, your system may be in grave peril.  Grave peril, sir, I stress this. By the way, we sell cones in an eye pleasing XBOX green to help demarcate this area for 19.95. The child and small animal approved shock collar, which will activate within 3' of the system can also be ordered on our website.  Just be sure to give both proper ventillation or they could very well burst into flame or explode."

"Are you fucking kidding me?"

"No sir. This is a gaming console. Serious business."

[Strazos]

When I was 5 I didn't kick my Nintendo when I got mad at it.

You are not normal then. I don't know any kids who didn't abuse the fuck out of their Atari/Nintendo as a kid.

I didn't beat my NES either....

I probably would have been beat if I did.

[schild]

$400 for anything is serious business. And it's not 15 degrees left and right, you could spin the damn thing around. It's 15 degrees on vertical axis. As in tippiing it left or right. Where the fuck are these people keeping it that that could even happen? On the edge of a table? On a seesaw? Supporting the top of a jenga tower?

Edit: You know what all this complaining is going to result in? A warning on the side that says "Caution, the xbox 360 is not a step. Do not use it to reach the top shelf."

[Rasix]

What if I had the Microsoft approved safety cushions on each side of it? /poke /poke

[Roac]

Makes me all the more happy that I've only spent $100 on a slim factor PS2, to which both my daughter and both cats have stood ontop of the CD drive while it was on (ACK!), without incident.

[Morfiend]

early adoption never bit me in the ass.

PSP?

[Yegolev]

Fuck kids and Joe Sixpack. If I bought a $400 TOY I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near the damn thing.

People do the damndest things when they are parents.  Babies cause senility, and you just don't think or care about things the same way.  It doesn't excuse idiocy but these people exist.  For the record, I don't let my son anywhere near my breakables.  My consoles are as off-limits as they can be and still be attached to the TV.  He managed to get his hands on my We <3 Katamari manual.  Hilarity did not ensue.

I don't think this is anything to get bent out of shape about.  People letting kids play with a $400 appliance will get what they deserve.  People buying a sensitive electronic device and subsequently abusing it will also get what they deserve.  Microsoft underengineering their consoles will get what they deserve.  Computer parts ride the backs of early adopters, but home appliances ride the corpses of the stupid; we are just seeing the crossing of the two fields.  The good news for me is that the 2007 edition of the 360 will be even better than I originally thought.

I'd like to say that this emergent scenario is why I didn't get a 360 at launch, thereby sounding smug and superior, but really it was because I didn't have $400 to jam up a hog's ass and yell "SOOOWEEE!"

[Sky]

My buddy is a walmart employee still (meat receiver, hehehe) and he said they got 50 more 360s in over the weekend. The line formed, sold out instantly. Looks like I won't be able to get one until the second revision anyway. It's all about the pc version of Oblivion in my book. If it has the same hassles with widescreen as Morrowind did, I'll probably get the 360. Shit, I probably will anyway as I'll need a gpu upgrade just to get teh shiney on the pc...and nowadays that means new mobo/gpu/ram, too.

AND I'LL PUT IT ON THE CARPET! :)

[Fabricated]

Didn't the original Xbox have problems with damaging DVDs?