Child custody battles.

[Cheddar]

Has anyone here gone through the trouble of a custody battle concerning children?  Seriously, I just want stories good or bad.  Please.

[Margalis]

As the child or the parent? 

[Strazos]

My parents were divorced when I was 7. It was ugly.

My step-uncle, who has been divorced as long as I have known him, recently had some ugly business having to do with college tuition for one of his kids.

I won't go into any of it less someone Really needs me to.

Suffice to say, divorces can be pretty ugly for everyone.

[Sairon]

My parents divorced when I was like 15 years old. I don't have any experience of custody battles since my parents didn't have any, me and my younger brother got to decide for ourselves where we wanted to live. I stayed with my dad at his house while my brother moved with my mom to an apartment not to far away.

Anyway, if you're into this kind of problem my advice is to listen to the child ( if he's old enough ) and don't play the "spoil war" ( if it comes to shared custody ), that is to try and buy the child over with stuff and loose rules. Allthough my parents didn't trash talk each other a lot I've always hated that as well.

Since my parents don't really hate each others guts I guess it went fairly well for me, even if I really want them to be togheter again. If it had come to legal battles I guess it would've been way worse.

[HaemishM]

I think Abragadro works or has worked in that shit pile of law cases before. Someone else on here works as a lawyer in family court in Texas too (forgive me for forgetting who). Both should be infinite sources of fun stories.

[Signe]

I hope you're not having problems, Cheddar.  I know how much you adore your children and they sure seem to adore you right back! 

[Cuular]

There wasn't really any battle on my case.

My ex-wife disappeared for 2.5 years, came back, filed a court case without telling me, and my daughter disappeared one day while I was in school.  I was 24 at the time, in college.  Came home, stopped by the baby sitter, and my child was gone.

I tried to get her back, but this was back in the "olden" times when even though the mother had abandoned her child, when she came back, they decided the child was better off with her.  Over the years she was subjected to being locked in a room all day as her mother was stoned out of her mind, in the living room etc.  I had proof, and submitted it to the court, with credible witnesses, but still was unable to get full custody of my daughter back.

I never once bad mouthed my Ex in front of my daughter, nor did I use "spoil or loose rules" to try and win her to spend her time with me.  Over the years she figured out the differences, and now spends more time visiting me than her mother.

Basically about 5 years ago when she was visiting, she explained that her mother had bad mouthed me all the time, but that she(my daughter) had remembered living with me, and couldn't remember me doing any of the things her mother was making claims about.  And then she also explained that she appreciated me never bad mouthing or making any bad claims about her mother.  In the end she figured it all out.

But the fun stuff was, and still is trying to get the child support stuff straightened out.  And this is after my daughter is 22 and has 2 children of her own.

Having 3 states involved in the support battle can be a real pain.  Especially when the Ex didn't close down one case before she opened a new one everytime she moved.

At one point the state she was living in was trying to collect on 4 different open cases.  It took me a very long time to get them to realize that I have a single daughter, not 4 of them, and that it was unreasonable to be paying 4 separate child support payments a month.

I'm still trying to get the money back that they took wrongfully, 3 years after my daughter was 18, and out on her own.  One day I check my bank account, and it was 30k less than it was the day before.  With no notice to me, they had collected a few years of "back" support, even though I had payed all support required.

It's a long and frustrating battle, when not both sides of it are doing what they are supposed to.  The Ex still hasn't closed down some outstanding cases she had opened, and so occasionally as they run year end checks I'll get a notice that I have to respond to, to make sure I don't get screwed again.

Meanwhile I have a good relationship with my daughter, and 2 grandsons, 3 and 1.5 years old.

[Ironwood]

 

[Dren]

Parents divorced when I was 10.  No battle, but the backstabbing and child support stuff was just nasty.  Visited my dad every other weekend and he bought me whatever I needed or didn't need.  My mom did everything she could with the system to make my dad pay more than was ruled. (Whoever ends up with the kids can really screw the other if they want to very very easily.)  Hell, he still pays the old fashioned idea of alimony even today (26 years later!)  He pays per year, for life.  Yes, my mom had a good lawyer.  It isn't enough to live on, but I think she enjoys seeing him pay it.

All I can say is divorce is the absolute last thing you ever want to consider.  Do everything you can to resolve your issues first.  Generally, if you think you'll be happier with the divorce, your results will be bittersweet at best.

[Samwise]

My parents got divorced when I was a baby and set up a joint custody arrangement (I'd go stay with my dad on the weekends), so I have no memories of them ever being together.  Tough to say whether having divorced parents warped me significantly, since I have no basis for comparison, but having seen a couple of unhappy marriages my feeling is that divorce is a better option for all concerned.

I'd definitely second all the recommendations to not vent negative feelings toward the other parent at the kid(s) - both of my parents did this at one time or another, and even when I was little I could tell that I wasn't getting the whole story.  The parent doing the talking would always come off worse than the one being badmouthed.  Thankfully, they both got over that after about a decade.

[Nebu]

I once heard a quote that struck me profoundly:  "You never really know who you marry until you divorce them."  For some reason, divorce has this tendency to bring out the absolute worst in people. 

I've been involved in custody battles as both a child and a parent.  The best advice that I can give you is to take the path the leaves you with the fewest regrets in the end.  The separation of two parents is traumatic enough to children.  The fighting and battles over money just make it worse.   

[voodoolily]

My two cents are only based on experiences nannying kids with split-up folks. One little girl was being raised by her mother, who was basically training her daughter to have complete disdain for the entire male species. As a father, your obvious goal will be to be a positive male role model for your daughters and to foster in them a respect for themselves and others equally. Their mother may have other ideas in mind, but as long as you take the high road you're the winner. Also, if you create a "daddy spoils me" dynamic with your girls, you may be setting them up for unrealistic expectations in their adult relationships.

All of the friends I had growing up with divorced parents were very well-adjusted, intelligent people who seemed to have gotten the best from each parent, so hopefully that'll set your mind at ease a little. And the tide has definitely been changing with regards to how the father is treated in these kinds of suits.

[Margalis]

I don't like the advice to try to avoid divorce.

I'm kind of a fucked up individual and at least some of that is due to my parents divorcing, but had they stayed together I probably would have been even more fucked up. Having your parents constantly argue to the point where neighbors call state troopers to come over and make sure a homocide isn't occuring isn't any more fun than just having divorced parents.

[Samwise]

All of the friends I had growing up with divorced parents were very well-adjusted, intelligent people who seemed to have gotten the best from each parent

Do you think that it's easier to get "the best from each parent" if the parents are split up?  I've always thought of my major life choices as striking a good balance between my two parents; my dad is a complete slacker and my mom is a workaholic, and growing up I saw all the plusses and minuses of those two lifestyles, in terms of not having enough money vs. not having enough time to enjoy yourself.  I'd never considered that having them split up might have made it easier for me to pick those things out, though.

[Cheddar]

I am already divorced.  I was just wanting to read some stories; worry about my personal life not.

[voodoolily]

Do you think that it's easier to get "the best from each parent" if the parents are split up?

Not necessarily, I was just assuring whoever that the divorce of one's parents isn't the death knell of a child's personal growth. As a person who's parents did not divorce (but REALLY should have) my childhood issues, while mostly attributable to my father, are really a mishmash of experiences stemming from two people who weren't really ready to become parents when they did. Because my parents stayed together, I was never really able to see how strong or smart my mom could be, or how compassionate or protective my dad could be. They brought out the worst in each other.

[Signe]

I am already divorced.  I was just wanting to read some stories; worry about my personal life not.

I always worry about you, Yoda.

[Cheddar]

I am already divorced.  I was just wanting to read some stories; worry about my personal life not.

I always worry about you, Yoda.

Maudlin I have been lately.  Winter I blame.

I dunno, my schedule has been a pain and with certain things going on, I guess my internet persona is not as happy as usual.  I am fine, of that you can be sure.

Your sig makes me cringe :(

[Signe]

I was trying to taunt schild with my big sig.  He seems to be untauntable lately.  I'll have to come up with something else.

[Shockeye]

I dunno, my schedule has been a pain and with certain things going on, I guess my internet persona is not as happy as usual.  I am fine, of that you can be sure.

I gave you a new avatar to cheer you up.

[Dren]

I don't like the advice to try to avoid divorce.

I'm kind of a fucked up individual and at least some of that is due to my parents divorcing, but had they stayed together I probably would have been even more fucked up. Having your parents constantly argue to the point where neighbors call state troopers to come over and make sure a homocide isn't occuring isn't any more fun than just having divorced parents.

I wasn't going to write a 50 page explanation, but for the most part, my advise goes way beyond "just avoid getting divorced."  I didn't say ignore the problems.  The obvious thing to do would be to fix those too.  Everyone can change their attitudes, which many times is all it takes.  Most of the time it just means stop thinking "What can she/he doe for me?" and start thinking, "What can I do for her/him?"  If a person feels that is just too hard to do and their priority is with themselves, then divorce is just around the corner.  My point is, that won't fix it either.  It is like morphine, it just masks the pain.

[Nazrat]

I am the family law practitioner in Texas referred to by Haemish.

I'll just share one of my 75 cases from yesterday. 

3 children. Mom has been ordered to pay Dad for child support on all 3.  It turns out that they were divorced in 1995.  All 3 went to live with Dad after the divorce.  One year later, one of the boys went back to live with Mom as Child Protective Services opened a case against Dad for molesting the boy.  In 1997, the daughter went back to live with Mom.  Then, Dad called the cops on Mom due to her habit of using/abusing drugs.  Mom was in and out of prison for the next 4 years.  Dad is also a frequent visitor to various Texas County accommodations.  Mom now owes ~$39,000 in child support.  Dad is an over the road trucker and the children actually live with he and his mom since he is on the road for weeks at a time. 

Mom, who was in custody at the time, waived her right to an attorney in 2004 and a judgment was granted against her for child support owed even though she had actual custody of the kids.  For some reason, Dad won't agree to forgive any amount of money owed by Mom even during her periods of actual possesion.  Mom is on child support probation for 10 years.

Dad lies about his income and won't produce any documents showing how much he is getting paid.

So, yesterday, Mom, her attorney, Dad and I sat down in an antechamber of the courtroom and tried to negotiate an order in this case.  Mom now has 2 kids.  Dad has one.  Mom wants to have a visit from the one with Dad after Christmas as she isn't going to buy the child any presents.  She Just wants to spend time with "her baby."  It took 20 minutes for us to work out an exchange on the day after Christmas at the Walmart so that no one gets their ass kicked during the exchange.

Oh, for some reason the Dad always wears orange to court.  He tells Mom when none of the attorneys are around that he does this because he enjoyed seeing her in the orange jail jumpsuit so much and that she is going to be wearing orange again when this case is over. 

I love child custody disputes.  The children always win.

P.S.  I love my job.

[Signe]

People are always saying "for the sake of the kids" they won't divorce until they're grown.  Maybe people should wait until the kids are grown to get married. 

[Ironwood]

You know, this isn't exactly a Christmas, wonderful-life type thread.

I approve.

More heart rending stories of human horror please.

[HaemishM]

We're ramping up for the Festivus airing of the grievances thread.

[Ironwood]

Er, yeah.  I'd forgotten about that.  I may give this a miss this year.

[Sairon]

You know, this isn't exactly a Christmas, wonderful-life type thread.

I approve.

More heart rending stories of human horror please.

Hey, since my parents are divorced I get to celebrate christmas twice!

[Fargull]

Wife separated two and a half years ago.  Divorced officially this past June.  We have joint custody of my five year old son, I have primary.  No child support, no alimony.  I have not, nor will I say a negative word about her in front of him.  I have a good relationship with her parents and grand parents.  We are having Christmas with her grand parents this year, my folks are driving into town.  I hope the impact on my son is minimal, but I know it will never be.  My parents were both divorced before they married, but are still married to this day.  I have a half sister that I have probably spent less than a month of my life with over my short 36 years.  Her mother was in and out of asylums for the first 8 or so years of her life, but somehow her mother was deemed a better parent than my dad.  Her mother and grand parents cast my father as the Evil.  I have no understanding why anyone would cloud a child's mind like that, just drives me crazy.

Being a single parent is work, hard but very rewarding.  I am thankful that my x is not into drugs, nor insane.  She unfortunately does not want to be a mother and has only gradually entered back into his life on a regular basis.

[Hoax]

Only done it on the child side.

Parents divorced when I was ~10 and sister was 2.

Dad cheated on mom, both argued non-stop.

Honestly I have like no memories of my life prior to about age 13.  I dont remember who I lived with, or where my mom and dad stayed, being 100% serious here.  I may or may not have pushed my little sister out of a 3 story window (she survived but ruptured her stomach and was in the hospital for awhile and still bears a big scar).  My memory of the day doesn't make sense because it has always involved a cat, and I dont remember my mom having a cat in SF at all from any other memories.  My dad is allergic to them so it really seems unlikely.  I quickly decided to live with my dad, spent some time visiting mom on most weekends and breaks.  When I got to about 15-16 I had enough of that, never got to spend time with friend's from school because I had to go to Marin (dad had reclaimed family home) to see mom.  I stopped seeing mom, she has cancer in her lymph nodes now, but we dont really have a relationship -less in a bad way, then I we don't understand each other way. 

The real problem is with my sister, after loosing me mom was hellbent to make sure she never lost her.  They have gone to court several times and almost had the full blown slapdown dragout type custody battles.  Dad pays mom money he isn't even obligated to (to my knowledge) so that he can see her.  Currently for her own good (school wise) she is living with dad during the week.  But another war is brewing over where she will go to high school.  Both sides talked mad shit about the others, causing allot of grief for both of us.

All in all, just a typical modern American family as best as I can figure from the people I know.

P.S.  Kind of fun to post that, usually I dont go for this type of soul bearing shit on the intraweb, but I did just end a 4 year relationship with gf so I'm in an odd place these days.  Go Go XMAS!!

[Paelos]

I'm going to have to stop reading this thread until after the holidays.

[HaemishM]

I'm going to have to stop reading this thread until after the holidays.

But you WILL be participating in the Festivus airing of grievances thread. Oh you must.

[Signe]

Of course he will... he's still very nearly Christian and I'm sure he will get involved with all the Christmas jelliness that brings joylessness to this Festering Season.

[RhyssaFireheart]

I must be the real odd-person out then.  My parents will celebrate their 44th anniversary on 1/6, I'll celebrate my 13th in May and while one of my brothers is trying to get out of marriage #2 (he's the soap opera of the family), another brother just celebrated his 13th anniversary back in October.

I guess having a stable family life isn't the norm or something anymore.  Weird.

[Signe]

My parents never divorced, either.  They were married 39 years.  Righ's parents are also still married... 46 years or something like that.

[HaemishM]

You and me both, Rhyssa. My parents have been married over 40 years now, and both sets of grandparents were married until their deaths. That didn't stop my paternal grandfather from being a whoring cockmeister, but still.