Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 04:16:07 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Dungeons & Dragon Online  |  Topic: Ken Troop discusses state of DDO 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Ken Troop discusses state of DDO  (Read 5089 times)
Sobelius
Terracotta Army
Posts: 761


on: December 11, 2005, 10:53:20 AM

From the DDO forums in a thread discussing content and perceived lack thereof. Found it a really good clear statement of where things are at this stage and why. Posted in full below for quoting purposes.


Quote
There are 130+ dungeons/quests in DDO right now. As others have pointed out, many of those quests are far longer and more elaborate than what is typically defined as a quest in other online games.

This is, roughly, the same number of dungeons/quests we had when Alpha began. We've spent our entire time over the last few months reviewing/polishing/and bugfixing existing content. Our content is our gold standard. It has to be the best. And until it was polished to our satisfaction we didn't want to make a ton more of it.

Post-launch, however, our main focus, certainly for the design team, is more content. Speaking from personal experience on AC1, it is far easier to create quality content for an existing game, with existing tools pipeline and existing game systems, than it is to create quality content while you're still juggling all the different development balls you need to to create a MMP today. Hence the need to spend so much time post-creation on getting the content to where we want it to be.

We also will be looking at more randomness in the content. A large part of the lack of randomness in DDO is deliberate. Our philosophy has typically been very "anti-random". Personally, I have a very hard time caring or enjoying content that is either completely random, or scaled in difficulty based on, say, the size of my party. Where is the challenge? Where is the learnable/masterable experience? (Some of my best memories of early online MUD play are playing an area over and over again, learning how to succeed, learning how to master it -- if an experience is endlessly mutable, that thrill of mastery is gone).

That said, we did recognize the value of some randomness within the more static context ...we just haven't emphasized it as much compared to other elements of the content. One of the strongest takeaways I have from the last few months of Beta feedback has been to increase our use of randomness in our future dungeon efforts.

Another relevant factor for us recently is getting good factual data about xp advancement rates and availability. Now that we have this data and have analyzed it, we will be likely increasing the xp for certain dungeons in order to make sure that the amount of time a player *has* to replay a dungeon (assuming completion of Normal, Hard, and Elite) in order to advance is kept to a minimum.

As I've said before in various other posts, and I will keep on saying it -->

- There are some players out there who don't enjoy or understand DDO. We didn't think this game would appeal to everyone; unsurprisingly, we were right We're glad that there are so many other online games that might be more their cup of tea. Our future plans for this game are continuing the course we're on. We're very happy with the game and we're gratified to see so many other people happy with it, too.

- There are some players out there who like DDO a lot, like what we're doing, but just wish there was a lot more of it. We agree. We know that for some players it is the most significant factor in whether they choose to subscribe to DDO. Just to be very clear -- What you see in DDO today in terms of content scope is what you will see when DDO launches. But it's not going to be what you see a month+ out from DDO launch. There's a lot of content that was either nearing completion or half-way through completion that we've kept back because we needed to focus on launch, in addition to completely new content some of the team will be working on soon. We will continue to be aggressive in pumping out content regularly post-launch.

- There are some players out there who are unconditionally (mostly )happy -- thanks We do appreciate it. We're very excited about continuing to improve and grow this game.

Thanks, Rabb1t, for taking the time to post, and to everyone else for all the replies...the feedback is invaluable.

Ken Troop

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
"A world without Vin Diesel is sad." -- me
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #1 on: December 12, 2005, 07:46:05 AM

Cal, this stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

Quote
What you see in DDO today in terms of content scope is what you will see when DDO launches. But it's not going to be what you see a month+ out from DDO launch.

Same as it ever was. In other words, I've heard that before, and it's never been true. EVER. At least not in the quantity I have felt it needed to be.

Calandryll
Developers
Posts: 335

Would you kindly produce a web game.


Reply #2 on: December 12, 2005, 08:01:42 AM

Cal, this stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

Quote
What you see in DDO today in terms of content scope is what you will see when DDO launches. But it's not going to be what you see a month+ out from DDO launch.

Same as it ever was. In other words, I've heard that before, and it's never been true. EVER. At least not in the quantity I have felt it needed to be.
Understood. The only thing I can tell you is that the majority of the team is focused on bug fixing and polish. We have a small team working on the first month update which includes more content. Now, it's not like the first month update is going to double the number of quests in the game, but it will add more.
Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18942

Muse.


Reply #3 on: December 12, 2005, 08:13:08 AM

That bit worried me a little, too.  All in all, it's a pleasant game.  I don't find it riveting or extremely exciting but I think that might be mostly my personal taste.  I like outdoor exploration... a lot.  After playing DDO a while, I get a sort of claustrophobic feeling.  Everything seems so mashed together.  That little outside instance was ok, but it didn't really feel like being outdoors to me.  Maybe it just needs to be bigger and filled with lots of encounters.  Even kept as an instance, I should be able to wander outside and take my chances, meeting bigger mobs and different sorts of encounters as I stroll along.  There is very little randomness so far and I'm hoping there will be a lot more.  I would prefer there to be non-instanced outdoor areas to explore, wandering mobs, etc.  but I don't think that's part of the game plan.  I'm afraid there might be too much "sameness" in DDO, if you get what I mean.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Xilren's Twin
Moderator
Posts: 1648


Reply #4 on: December 12, 2005, 09:03:32 AM

That bit worried me a little, too.  All in all, it's a pleasant game.  I don't find it riveting or extremely exciting but I think that might be mostly my personal taste.  I like outdoor exploration... a lot.  After playing DDO a while, I get a sort of claustrophobic feeling.  Everything seems so mashed together.  That little outside instance was ok, but it didn't really feel like being outdoors to me.  Maybe it just needs to be bigger and filled with lots of encounters.  Even kept as an instance, I should be able to wander outside and take my chances, meeting bigger mobs and different sorts of encounters as I stroll along.  There is very little randomness so far and I'm hoping there will be a lot more.  I would prefer there to be non-instanced outdoor areas to explore, wandering mobs, etc.  but I don't think that's part of the game plan.  I'm afraid there might be too much "sameness" in DDO, if you get what I mean.

The problem with random encounters in the way DDO is structured is usefulness.  Currently, you get 99% of your exp from quest completion.  Unless they plan to greatly increase the exp you get from the optional or mini-encounters they don't really add much to a quest instance.  So generally what I here people asking for is an outdoor hunting zones ala the WoW/EQ model with random mob spawns, but regularly occuring random mob spawns that you can earn decent exp from. And THAT, I don't want.

Think about it this way, when you played regular D&D (or any p&p rpg for that matter), or even games like Baldur's gate and the like, did random encounter really add anything of value to the game?  Typically, you only remember them if they either were very good (i.e. you earned some great exp and/or loot), or very bad (you died) but more often then not they were simply irriating speed bump in the story progression.  Think about outdoor hunting in EQ or WoW; was any of that fun in and of itself?  (Ironically, probably the best radnom outdoor hunting was in AC1 due to their loot generator slot machine, but again, you dont remember the encounts just the loot).  That's sort of the way I feel about random stuff  in DDO.  What would it really add of value?

If you make the random stuff too important/valuable, you've really changed the gameplay focus away from story driven quest instances (and basically brought DDO to mirror it's competition, an area which they would not do well in trying to outdo WoW).  If you don't make it important/valubale, you're just wasting peoples time throwing random stuff in their way.

Now, while there are some small random elements in quests, like the mini bosses you find or the patrol routes of mobs, they flow within the context of the overall quests.  And I guess thats my point; a decent quest tells a story; random stuff doesn't help that effort....

In terms of adding content post release, it begs the question of what kind and what levels.  Sure, the 1-10 curver is a lot smaller than most games, but would you really be adding CR1 and 2 quests a few months after release, or just higher end stuff?  Ideally, what I would like to see is enough content so that there would never be any reason you had to repeate a quests unless you just wanted to try the hard or elite versions.  You should be able to take your characters from 1-10 purely on normal difficult quests and never repeat once.  That may be a pipe dream, but that's what I would want to see.

Xilren

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
WayAbvPar
Moderator
Posts: 19268


Reply #5 on: December 12, 2005, 09:06:41 AM

Quote
Even kept as an instance, I should be able to wander outside and take my chances, meeting bigger mobs and different sorts of encounters as I stroll along.  There is very little randomness so far and I'm hoping there will be a lot more.  I would prefer there to be non-instanced outdoor areas to explore, wandering mobs, etc.  but I don't think that's part of the game plan.


I would like to see this sort of thing as well. Something that I can do for 15-20 minutes at a time when I need a quick fix but don't have time to assemble a group and slog through a dungeon. The Explorer in me is weeping- every group I have ever played in has always included a player who has been through the quest before and knows the optimal route... there is no sense of awe and wonder as I experience it for the first time. With outdoor areas and random mobs, at least I can go on a walkabout and see something new.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
SuperPopTart
Terracotta Army
Posts: 990

I am damn cute for a stubby shortling.


Reply #6 on: December 12, 2005, 09:08:07 AM



I would like to see this sort of thing as well. Something that I can do for 15-20 minutes at a time when I need a quick fix but don't have time to assemble a group and slog through a dungeon. The Explorer in me is weeping- every group I have ever played in has always included a player who has been through the quest before and knows the optimal route... there is no sense of awe and wonder as I experience it for the first time. With outdoor areas and random mobs, at least I can go on a walkabout and see something new.


This is why I solo.

I am Super, I am a Pop Tart.
Calandryll
Developers
Posts: 335

Would you kindly produce a web game.


Reply #7 on: December 12, 2005, 09:31:23 AM

Have you tried the Postern Gate Wild area? Part of the reason for this area and maps like it is to allow for less structered gameplay.

This is the comment from the beta 3.5 release notes: A new outdoor dungeon, Postern Gate Wild, is now accessible from the Harbor. This area has "encounters", much like the waterworks, Tangleroot Gorge, and Sorrowdusk Island (among other areas). You don't need a specific quest to enter it - simply walk on in and tackle encounters as you find them.
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Dungeons & Dragon Online  |  Topic: Ken Troop discusses state of DDO  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC