I'm buying a new computer (help).

[dusematic]

I know I post somewhat infrequently, but hopefully that won't stop me from begging the ear of someone more knowledgeable than myself.  The new computer I'm about to get is as follows:


-Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 650 w/HT Technology (3.4GHz,800FSB)
-2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz
-256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory
-80 GB 7200 RPM HD
-Dell UltraSharp 2001FP -OR- Dell UltraSharp 2005FPW

I'll mainly play WoW and Civ 4 on this, and want it to be good enough for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. 


So, I'm assuming the graphics card is the weakest link here, but will it be fine for the time being?  Any thoughts would be welcome, I don't have a lot of money to fuck around with.

[Signe]

You could do what I did and buy some cheapo demo model off the shelf with no box for pittance and then buy a big ugly old graphics card (I got the GeForce 7800 GT) and some memory.  It also helps if they put the wrong price label on the card....  Of course, I do nothing but games with this computer.  We have expensive Macs for doing important things like porn and stuff.

[dusematic]

Thanks for not answering my question at all!    Just joking, but seriously, I don't trust demo shit after working at a Radio Shack.

[schild]

So you're getting a Dell. Tat graphics card will be fine for now. Is the Pentium IV a dual core? Also, what's the exact model?

[dusematic]

Dude, I'm getting a Dell.  It's a Dimension E-510.  It's a good deal with a 20% off coupon and some other holiday offers like free printer and what not.  It's not Dual Core, but from what I hear most game don't take effective advantage of this. 

I hear this card is comparable to the Radeon 9800?  In which case it's fairly decent from what I know and should be able to max out a lot of games (I don't play much FPS).

[Viin]

The graphic card should be fine, but if you are going to go all out (which it looks like you are) then you might as well get the 800. I would recommend going to the 800 if you plan on playing games that will be coming out 1-2 years in the future...

Or plan on upgrading when it comes out, to whatever is the latest and greatest at the time (probably the best bet, now that I think about it).

[dusematic]

I would go one up on the card but that's the best card you can get on a Dimension.  I was worried that it sucked, or that my other system specs would bottleneck a top notch graphics card in two years, or maybe the power supply wouldnt support one.  I really don't know what I'm talking about.  I have a niggardly knowledge gleaned from reading other people's opinions on forums coupled with non-technical background.

[schild]

How much is the computer costing at the end of the day?

[dusematic]

Just under 1500 beans including tax, shipping, printer, etc.  From what I can tell, the Dell monitors are all the rage.


My current rig is a P4 1.4/64MB NVIDIA GeForce Ultra/500 MB RDRAM.  Point and laugh.

[dusematic]

Thanks for the reassuring pats on the back by the way.  I'm going to pull the trigger. 

[Yoru]

Heh, you're getting the exact computer that I use as a workstation in the office. VS7.1 takes great advantage of the hyperthreading stuff, but somehow I doubt you'll be doing any compilation of >1GB of source code. Writing an app that does HT properly is difficult and SIMD assembler is still a black art, even with the advanced optimizers built into compilers these days, so a lot of games really won't utilize the latest OMFGL33T acronym'd features on the processor. That will slowly change, but it's something that will be more relevant in the 2+ year window, not now.

Uh, end digression.

It runs pretty snappily even with all the central-administration garbage IT throws on our machines, so it should be fine for your immediate gaming needs. At worst, you'll need to chuck in a new graphics card ~1-2 years down the line. Unless your definition of gaming includes antialiasing and anisotropic-filtering the graphics at a resolution with the dimensions of Texas, but then you want one of those high-four-figure superoptimized overclocked specialty ePeen gaming machines that use exotic elements as coolant.

Also the 2001FP is a sweet monitor. Again, it's what I use at work. Haven't had issues.

[schild]

Just under 1500 beans including tax, shipping, printer, etc.  From what I can tell, the Dell monitors are all the rage.


My current rig is a P4 1.4/64MB NVIDIA GeForce Ultra/500 MB RDRAM.  Point and laugh.

WHOAAAAA WAIT. Seriously. Give it a day or so. The XPS 400 goes on sale with the 20" monitor for $1023 like twice a week. You can upgrade to a dual core and get an ATI 800SE!

[dusematic]

Seriously?  Holy shit.  Good save dude.  Good save.  Despite being populated in the main by cycnical misanthropes, you guys have been the most helpful place by far in my quest for computer gaming knowledge.


But how the hell will I know when it goes on sale, and a 500 dollar price drop with better shit sounds too good to be true really.

[Strazos]

I would also look at buying the components and assembling the rig yourself. A lot of the price you pay at retail is for tech support, which is for suckers.

Though, this isn't really an option if you cannot put the stuff together. Though, if that's the case, you should be embarassed to call yourself a gamer.

[dusematic]

I live in shame everyday.

[dusematic]

Seriously Schild, you've piqued the interest of the  greedy Jew that resides deep in the heart of us all.  Do I camp Dell.com for this mystical deal or is there, like, a better way.  Lead me to the promised land of milk, honey, and high frame rates.

[Strazos]

You play MMOs. You should know all about camping something.

I still say you should seriously consider assembling a system yourself. $1500 for that system seemed like a major rip. Also, the SE-series ATI cards are short for budget-series, if I remember correctly.

[Trippy]

-Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 650 w/HT Technology (3.4GHz,800FSB)

Intel bad, though through Dell you don't have much choice. Athlon 64 offers much better price/performance.

-2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz

2 GB RAM very good.

-256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory

X600 SE very very bad. The X600 Pro is equivalent to the 9600 Pro which is nowhere near 9800 Pro performance levels. And while I can't find the specs on the SE version if the X300 SE is anything to go by the X600 SE is a majorly gimped form of the X600.

-80 GB 7200 RPM HD

80 GB HD okay. PC games these days take up a lot of space. You might want to consider something bigger.

[dusematic]

-Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 650 w/HT Technology (3.4GHz,800FSB)

Intel bad, though through Dell you don't have much choice. Athlon 64 offers much better price/performance.

-2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz

2 GB RAM very good.

-256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory

X600 SE very very bad. The X600 Pro is equivalent to the 9600 Pro which is nowhere near 9800 Pro performance levels. And while I can't find the specs on the SE version if the X300 SE is anything to go by the X600 SE is a majorly gimped form of the X600.

-80 GB 7200 RPM HD

80 GB HD okay. PC games these days take up a lot of space. You might want to consider something bigger.

Dammit!






I've thought about building a computer using the Ars Technica system guides, and I see that through buying components individually I could get a much better computer for the same price.  I'm unsure that I could do it though, I never have before and the prospect of sitting for hours on the floor amidst various screws and covered in the sweat of frusturation scrubbing my fingers through my hair right before I realize that I forgot to ground myself before touching my motherboard seems like a fairly daunting task.

[Strazos]

Honestly, it's all very simply. The components go together naturally, because...well, they're designed to. It's all just screws and clips, really.

The hard part is software usually. Or soundcards. I hate soundcards.

[Trippy]

I've thought about building a computer using the Ars Technica system guides, and I see that through buying components individually I could get a much better computer for the same price.  I'm unsure that I could do it though, I never have before and the prospect of sitting for hours on the floor amidst various screws and covered in the sweat of frusturation scrubbing my fingers through my hair right before I realize that I forgot to ground myself before touching my motherboard seems like a fairly daunting task.

It can seem daunting if you've never done it before. There are so many pieces and cables and stuff it's hard to know where to even start (though there are probably some good howtos on the Web). However, if you take the time to learn how to do it your future hardware options open up tremendously. Even if your subsequent computers are "prebuilt" you'll know how to upgrade or modify those computers as needed (add more RAM, add another hard drive, put in a new video card, etc.).

[Azazel]

Something small and hard to find almost always goes wrong though, and then you're fucked. I've built my last 3 computers, plus one for my brother. I'd suggest you look around at the more competitive of small independant computer shops in your area (the ones who sell the abovementioned parts for cheap) and see what they charge to assemble.

PCs should be Plug and Play, but sadly they're still Plug and Pray. Gigantic pieces of random shit that they are..

My next box, I'll get them to put it together for me, for the au$50 it'll cost, with a year's warranty, it's a no-brainer to take it back and let them sort it out when something fucks up.

[Azazel]

if you're unsure of how it works, definately pay someone who'll give you support to put it together. It's just worth the headache, especially if you're unsure. Having a new computer, assembled, that should work but does not and needing to get a friend to come over and look at it for you, in a day or three when they can make it, sucks an unbelievable amount of donkey balls.

OTOH, once you've got the new toy and have it running ok, have a poke around the old one. Everyone should learn/know how to add in an extra drive/memory/HDD/cards. Just see how all the shit fits together. Read the manual to your motherboard.

[dusematic]

Hey they're selling the XPS 400 for $1069 like you foretold.  Integrated soundcards won't fuck me will they? 

[dusematic]

Also what's the deal with dual cores?  Like, a 2.8 Gig Dual Core vs. a 3.4 Gig regular processor.  I mean, If the program doesn't really take advantage of hyperthreading, are we looking at a big leap in power?

[schild]

Buy a seperate sound card, turn off the integrated one in the bios. Also, post more.

[dusematic]

Ok.  I have a sig now.  Does that mean I'm part of the team?

[Trippy]

Also what's the deal with dual cores?  Like, a 2.8 Gig Dual Core vs. a 3.4 Gig regular processor.  I mean, If the program doesn't really take advantage of hyperthreading, are we looking at a big leap in power?

Hyper-threading is not the same thing as having dual CPUs or a dual core CPU. Yes you can set things up so that Windows thinks you have two CPUs but you really don't. In some cases having HT turned on can improve the performance of a multi-threaded program. On the other hand having HT turned on can hurt the performance of some applications. So it's kind of a wash. As for dual CPU or dual core CPU computing you'll see a big benefit if you either run multi-CPU aware multi-threaded applications (Photoshop, 3d rendering programs, video encoders, etc.) or you like to run multiple CPU intensive applications at the same time (e.g. you want to run your game and encode a video at the same time).

[Signe]

Thanks for not answering my question at all!    Just joking, but seriously, I don't trust demo shit after working at a Radio Shack.

Why do you hurt me so?     

[Viin]

Trippy makes a good point. As he says, the vast majority of the applications you will be running cannot use two CPUs at once, but if you ever wanted to run two applications at the same time (say, WoW and Fraps to record your guilds catassing) then getting two CPUs or dual core CPUs is a good idea. (You'd also probably want to get two hard drives).

That said, I've been running on a single processor for .. well, ever. I rarely run additional apps while playing games, or if I do it's something like Ventrilo or Teamspeak which doesn't take much processing power at all.

I'm not sure how Dual Core works, but if it's a 2.8Ghz does that mean only 1.4Ghz is available to a single threaded app? I would guess you can use the whole 2.8Ghz if there's not other applications running, but you might want make sure.

[Alkiera]

Trippy makes a good point. As he says, the vast majority of the applications you will be running cannot use two CPUs at once, but if you ever wanted to run two applications at the same time (say, WoW and Fraps to record your guilds catassing) then getting two CPUs or dual core CPUs is a good idea. (You'd also probably want to get two hard drives).

That said, I've been running on a single processor for .. well, ever. I rarely run additional apps while playing games, or if I do it's something like Ventrilo or Teamspeak which doesn't take much processing power at all.

I'm not sure how Dual Core works, but if it's a 2.8Ghz does that mean only 1.4Ghz is available to a single threaded app? I would guess you can use the whole 2.8Ghz if there's not other applications running, but you might want make sure.

Dual-Core CPUs are just 2 cpus on the same die.  It's just like a dual-processor rig, only it takes up less space on the motherboard... only one giant heatsink instead of 2, etc.  I'd assume a 2.8 Ghz model means both CPUs run at 2.8 Ghz.  For the most part, it'll run just like a single-CPU at 2.8 Ghz, except some things will be zippier... if you have multiple apps running at once, swapping between them will be faster, etc.  Certain rare apps will be faster, mostly graphics and video encoding related stuff.  You might be able to get away with doing silly things like burning CD/DVDs while playing WoW, since the processes are on seperate CPUs.  (Tho WoW might still cause delays on the I/O subsystem, due to disk accesses, and thus cause issues with the burn).

All in all, if you're a normal 'use PC for one thing at a time' user, you won't see much benefit from a dual-core machine.

Alkiera

[Strazos]

Buy a seperate sound card, turn off the integrated one in the bios. Also, post more.

This really depends on the mobo's chipset. A good board, like an Asus, will have decent sound support. The main reason for using an independent soundcard is if you are using surround sound or something.

Otherwise, integrated sound (using good chipsets) is a fine choice.

[MrHat]

That X-Fi board is super sexy.

[dusematic]

These are the best codes since Game Genie.  Where do you get them?

[Krakrok]

I camp this page:

http://www.techbargains.com/dellcoupons.cfm