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Daydreamer
Contributor
Posts: 456


Reply #35 on: March 19, 2004, 04:53:00 AM

A lost out on the draw again, BLARG.

Why is it I only get into betas when I can't play them, like the time I got my DAOC beta right before four weeks of killer 2nd-midterms and finals?

Immaginative Immersion Games  ... These are your role playing games, adventure games, the same escapist pleasure that we get from films and page-turner novels and schizophrenia. - David Wong at PointlessWasteOfTime.com
dyvvu
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Reply #36 on: March 19, 2004, 05:56:00 AM

I got in via the fansite program but I already gave away my key. I know several people who were in the Friends & Family Alpha and their comments on leveling ranged from "3 Weeks till lvl30 if you play 10 hours a day" to "level 40 is a lonnnng time to wait considering the pace of WoW leveling".

--dyvvu
Bloodrage
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Posts: 18


Reply #37 on: March 19, 2004, 07:09:41 AM

From the reviews, it sounds like WoW might actually be fun. *sniff* Almost makes me feel less cynical. If WoW is fun out of the gate and stays interesting, Blizzard might as well be given a license to print money.
Merusk
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Reply #38 on: March 19, 2004, 09:49:17 AM

Quote from: Bloodrage
From the reviews, it sounds like WoW might actually be fun. *sniff* Almost makes me feel less cynical. If WoW is fun out of the gate and stays interesting, Blizzard might as well be given a license to print money.


Yeah, being a fan of MMOs enough that I almost always have a sub to one game or another running I find myself getting swept into the hype.  Dangerous, for that way lies madness.  I keep having to remind myself that the leveling pace will get nerfed at some point, or content will run out, or the blizzard fanbois will make it a lousy experience, or any of the other problems we've hashed out just to keep from convincing myself I might want to try it at release.

Damn that lenghty description of warriors, though.  Melee is my game and they make it sound fun again.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Neph
Terracotta Army
Posts: 34


Reply #39 on: March 19, 2004, 10:02:14 AM

Woke up, still nothing and phase 2 went out as well too.... not much hope!! :( Godammit, UT2k4 better start owning my soul.

Your nightmares are real.
Grimm
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Reply #40 on: March 19, 2004, 10:06:31 AM

No email either.  Looks like i'll be catassing in FFXI for a bit longer.

Neph...come back, the dark side is calling you back!
ceej
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Reply #41 on: March 19, 2004, 10:32:44 AM

Amazing, great reviews while still in alpha. Could Blizzard have figured it out? Could this be the one that doesn't break our hearts? At least not right away? (And damn, no beta email for me.)
Jon Carver
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Reply #42 on: March 19, 2004, 10:46:03 AM

Well, apparently we're not missing out on anything yet.  A friend of mine got in and the estimated download time was 351 hours.  (That's 14.65 days)   However, it's Bit Torrent tech and the download is estimated now, 12 hours later, to have 32 hours remaining.
Merusk
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Reply #43 on: March 19, 2004, 11:15:33 AM

Quote from: Jon Carver
Well, apparently we're not missing out on anything yet.  A friend of mine got in and the estimated download time was 351 hours.  (That's 14.65 days)   However, it's Bit Torrent tech and the download is estimated now, 12 hours later, to have 32 hours remaining.


Is your friend behind a firewall? The guy that did the review on the graffe site mentioned having to open some ports he didn't have opened, and it sped his download up considerably.  It was still 8 hours, but not the days it was telling him before.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Arydon
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Reply #44 on: March 19, 2004, 11:27:14 AM

Quote from: Merusk
Is your friend behind a firewall? The guy that did the review on the graffe site mentioned having to open some ports he didn't have opened, and it sped his download up considerably.  It was still 8 hours, but not the days it was telling him before.


I think you need to make sure you have TCP ports 6881 - 6889 open so that other BitTorrent users can connect to you. BitTorrent does a tit-for-tat thing where you're rewarded for uploading to others as you yourself are downloading.
Snowspinner
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Posts: 206


Reply #45 on: March 19, 2004, 12:36:02 PM

Also, you need to make sure you're not on a college campus. Many campuses block BitTorrent upload traffic, and the protocol ties your download speed to your upload speed, effectively choking BitTorrent out.

I will bellow like the thunder drum, invoke the storm of war
A twisting pillar spun of dust and blood up from the prairie floor
I will sweep the foe before me like a gale out on the snow
And the wind will long recount the story, reverence and glory, when I go
tanandae
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Reply #46 on: March 19, 2004, 12:38:50 PM

Quote from: Liquidator
I came across a link to a well written write up from a WoW alpha tester that I thought you all might enjoy reading.  It is rather lengthy, but a good read; don't let the title of the thread get to you.

[WoW] I Was a Teenage Alpha Tester

This is a great write up. I agree with just about everything in this post. However, he puts in some speculation about where PvP will go, but I think he's a little off. Neither of us really know though.

Quote from: HRose
There are torches or a light effect bound to a key?
Now other questions:
What about the netcode? Lag? Hiccups? When there are hundred of players on screen? Have you watched how much upload/download it uses on average?
And also the client performance in the same situation (crowded cities, raids ..)

Torches are actually part of the Survival tradeskill. Very few folks feel the need to carry a torch, but a rare few do. I think think it's mainly for the cool fire effects.
Netcode? I'm not sure what that is, not a techie type, and I haven't paid much attention to transfer rate. But for reference, I'm on cable, shared by three people, and we don't have any trouble with transfer rates.

Lag / Hiccups: there are some in some areas. The most populated cities sometimes have a "jerkiness" to them, but that seemed to be the city art more than the character art most often. We could gather a hundred people at the crossroads for a dance (rather common at the end of pushes) and the lag would be there, but not horribly. The characters appear to have a very low poly count to me, and load quickly. A lot of detail on the skins, but not so much in the mesh. The environment tends to have a lot more polys.

Quote from: Morphiend
I have some questions about the Priest.

Can you spec for damage and be viable?

If you are undead, do you get different spells than the ones that say are for fighting undead?

Damage spec is very viable for a priest. And fun.
Undead spells are the same as the alliance priest spells. There was some feedback from alpha testers on this saying that they should be different.

Quote from: Jon Carver
Well, apparently we're not missing out on anything yet.  A friend of mine got in and the estimated download time was 351 hours.  (That's 14.65 days)   However, it's Bit Torrent tech and the download is estimated now, 12 hours later, to have 32 hours remaining.


In addition to Merusk and Arydon's recommendations -- make sure they are using the SLOWEST possible setting. They want MODEM speed. The slower the setting, the more limitted the upload rate. This will free up bandwidth for download.
Mesozoic
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Reply #47 on: March 19, 2004, 12:50:53 PM

Quote
Damage spec is very viable for a priest. And fun.


EH?  Whats this about spec-ing?   I thought the character advancement was more EQ-style than DAoC spec-style.  Or by "spec" do you simply mean:  A priest that tends to attack more than defend?

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
tanandae
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Reply #48 on: March 19, 2004, 12:59:37 PM

Sorry, you're right, Mesozoic. I'm stuck in DAoC-speak.

You get your spells much like EQ. So you have access to everything you should have at your level (unlike DAoC speccing). You have a choice of where to put ... oh, hell, they're not called skill points, but something like that. These points can do any of the following: stat improvement (where most spend the majority of their points), melee and spell attack improvement, armor improvement, resists, and stuff like better evades. I've gone many levels without spending these points, because I didn't want to think about it at the time. Saved 'm up for later. They are not essential, but improve certain areas slightly. Gravy.

So you can have an extra little "boost" for an attack priest by spending points on your preferred weapon, some points in your "shadow" or "holy" line of spells. Or you could add on some extra skill at undead or beast slaying.
dyvvu
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Reply #49 on: March 19, 2004, 01:57:13 PM

So, I finally read that '[WoW] I Was a Teenage Alpha Tester' article and I have to say I found it rather entertaining.
What differentiates WoW from EQ/DAoC is the mapping class name <-> class abilities and the available races. What defines a 'true MMORPG' is that 'You do not level to 30 in an afternoon'. Nothing less from an EQ class site's boards...

Also, this quote I found particularly disturbing:
Quote
it feels like you're playing and exploring a Disney cartoon for adults

Correct me if I'm wrong but I detect some strong sexual innuendo here.

--dyvvu
Glamdring
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Posts: 139


Reply #50 on: March 19, 2004, 01:58:37 PM

Comcast user who didn't get an email invite?  Don't give up hope just yet.  Apparently Comcast filtered all of the beta invites as spam and Blizzard is working on some way to resend those emails.

So, if you're a Comcast user you still have that miniscule chance to win the mmog lotto.
WayAbvPar
Moderator
Posts: 19164


Reply #51 on: March 19, 2004, 01:59:44 PM

Quote from: Glamdring
Comcast user who didn't get an email invite?  Don't give up hope just yet.  Apparently Comcast filtered all of the beta invites as spam and Blizzard is working on some way to resend those emails.

So, if you're a Comcast user you still have that miniscule chance to win the mmog lotto.


The only way to win is not to play.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Furiously
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Reply #52 on: March 19, 2004, 02:06:14 PM

Quote from: Glamdring
Comcast user who didn't get an email invite?  Don't give up hope just yet.  Apparently Comcast filtered all of the beta invites as spam and Blizzard is working on some way to resend those emails.

So, if you're a Comcast user you still have that miniscule chance to win the mmog lotto.[/quote

don't quite get why I get 5 penal enlargement spams a day, but Blizzard mail... NOOOOOO

Sloth
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Reply #53 on: March 19, 2004, 02:12:25 PM

If you go to the comcast.net site and go to account management, then use the webbased email client, you can check your "Screened Mail" folder. It deletes email every 2-3 days so don't put off checking too long.
Glamdring
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Reply #54 on: March 19, 2004, 02:26:44 PM

Well, apparently Comcast bounced this stuff, so it never even got far enough in to be placed into a Screened folder.

The aftermath of an official Blizzard Rep (Kat) making a thread about this is hilarious.  Now everyone with XName@joeblow.com email addresses think that since they did not personally receive a beta invite that their mail service must have blocked it.

If you are kind of hoping to get in Beta then just go spend a little bit of time over at the battle.net forums.  You might change your mind.

BTW, I have no 'Screened Mail' folder.
Daeven
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Reply #55 on: March 19, 2004, 02:28:52 PM

Quote from: tanandae
Levelling is much faster than EQ or DAoC.


That's all I needed to know. Look at the innovative product ma! Thay gate 'content' with 'levels' just like, well....

all the rest of the mmog's...

damn.

Oh well.

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
Foix
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Reply #56 on: March 19, 2004, 02:38:58 PM

Aside from the quest system, and the poster's repeated assertions that WoW is absolutely nothing like EQ without presenting any evidence to the contrary, that writeup really doesn't make WoW seem to be anything other than Yet Another MMORPG: prettier graphics by some standards and marginal improvements to a game model that most of us became sick of years ago. Judgment still has to be reserved until its played (and as close to finished as an MMORPG will ever manage to be), but it came across as more of a me-too game than the end-product of a Blizzard Does MMORPGs Right design philosophy.
HRose
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Reply #57 on: March 19, 2004, 02:52:30 PM

My concerns at this point:

- PvP part
- Endgame (on the long distance of the game)
- No spec path, bringing everyone to be the same

The last could really be an issue. WoW has a very limited number of classes and still, without a deep development of characters, seems to offer little to no difference in how the class could be tweaked to be slightly original.

-HRose / Abalieno
cesspit.net
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Reply #58 on: March 19, 2004, 02:58:50 PM

Quote
Alchemists create all the potions Warcraft players are familiar with healing, mana, and so on as well as a number of new ones, including quirky ones that make you race away from battle at very, very high speed but in a random direction in your drug-induced panic.


I think reading that was the point where I went from "vaguely aware of WoW" to "eagerly anticipating WoW". Looking forward to an MMORPG is an odd thing... it's like looking forward to a blind date hyped up by a friend. Sure, she'll probably be as bad as the last few, but you can still hope. Here's hoping Blizzard got it right.
Neph
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Reply #59 on: March 19, 2004, 03:06:30 PM

Why don't you all just stop dwelling on MMOGs cause it's pretty clear you don't even like the fucking genre. You've been bitching for years on end and it still hasn't changed. Stop being bitter fucks and give it up already.

Your nightmares are real.
Bloodrage
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Reply #60 on: March 19, 2004, 03:06:50 PM

Quote
exploding sheep bombs



I think they had me when I read that line in one of the links. The Blizzard humor lives...
Foix
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Reply #61 on: March 19, 2004, 03:24:49 PM

Quote from: Neph
Why don't you all just stop dwelling on MMOGs cause it's pretty clear you don't even like the fucking genre. You've been bitching for years on end and it still hasn't changed. Stop being bitter fucks and give it up already.


If people are still sticking with the genre, it's because it still has a huge amount of potential, and most likely will reach the stage where it will create products to our satisfaction. Unfortunately, there's probably going to be a long evolutionary process between now and then; either that or the bottom will have to fall out of the MMORPG market for developers to stop making profitable but uncompelling variations on a theme. If WoW's interesting quest system pans out, that will most likely be its contribution to future MMORPGs, as everything else seems run-of-the-mill.
HaemishM
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WWW
Reply #62 on: March 19, 2004, 03:31:54 PM

Quote from: Neph
Why don't you all just stop dwelling on MMOGs cause it's pretty clear you don't even like the fucking genre. You've been bitching for years on end and it still hasn't changed. Stop being bitter fucks and give it up already.


MMOG's as an industry are at that toddler stage. They know they have to go to the potty to shit or else get shit all over themselves, they are just reluctant to do so, or too forgetful to remember not to shit on themselves. We few who bitch at them and don't buy them are the parents trying to teach the toddler that shitting on oneself does not make one popular with other toddlers or parents.

We still hope they'll grow up to be at least non-stinky kids, and don't quite want to leave them to wallow in their shit alone.

Riley
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Reply #63 on: March 19, 2004, 03:45:45 PM

Well, I have been looking for the negative aspects of the game since we all know that these games have them.  For me, by looking at the failings of a game, I can often tell if I will like the good stuff about it better than by just hearing a glowing non-critical review (that one from the EQ boards gave a good overview of the game but was 90% BS).

Big things that I see
- Only info out on levels 1-30.  In reality, this is a small fraction of the game - it will probably take you as long to go from 59-60 as it did to level from 1-30.
- All the content seems very segregated, by the time you look at which quests apply to your faction, race, class - you'll see that only about 30% of the content applies to you.  This will make it very tough for them to keep up with the game at the high levels when their big selling point is the content.  The "end game" might just be rerolling as a different faction/race to go through other content.
- PvP seems very low on their priority list
- No mention of an end game except for EQ-like raids.
- The rigid class based system - there really are not that many classes to choose from and it will be tough to differentiate your skills from someone else of the same class.
- Economy stuff - this is always a big deal for me, and I have a feeling the tradeskills in this game will be so dumbed down that the economy will be rather stale.


Quote
First off, I don't think it is as revolutionary as many people are hoping it will be (not yet anyway). While there are many many quests, most of them are still kill some type of monster over and over until you complete it. The quest help to soften the level grind, but it is still there. The nice thing though is you are almost always moving to new areas and killing new things and you don't just sit in a camp and wait for spawns (well, there are a few rare occations, but they are rare).

I think the main draw back of the game is the way characters skills are. It is a lot like EQ. Every priest has the same spells, every mage has the same spells, every fighter/paladin/etc have the same skills. The only thing to set you apart from other characters are how you spend your talent points and the gear you have. These can make a pretty big difference, but not to the degree that I or many other people would like. I can imagine the people who are in love with the AC1 style system will hate this.

It is hard to say what else is wrong with it because many things are still changing and PvP (which is a major issue) isn't in the game yet. The economy seems to need some serious work, but it is no where near finished.



Quote
I enjoyed my early days of EQ1 as well. But it was hardly a predictor of how the game would pan out at higher levels... I just want people to temper themselves a bit. AC2 was pretty chocked full of fun through level 30 too when it was released.

When I saw pronouncements all over the place of WOW being the most complete game ever, and then find out nobody made it past level 30, and this is the recent level cap, I have to chuckle a bit... that is all.
Sloth
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Reply #64 on: March 19, 2004, 03:52:18 PM

Heres a thread on comcast response. comcast is saying that no filtering of blizzard mail occured.

http://www.battle.net/forums/wow/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=1467919&P=1&ReplyCount=22#post1467919
schmoo
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Reply #65 on: March 19, 2004, 04:06:07 PM

Quote from: HaemishM
Quote from: Neph
Why don't you all just stop dwelling on MMOGs cause it's pretty clear you don't even like the fucking genre. You've been bitching for years on end and it still hasn't changed. Stop being bitter fucks and give it up already.


MMOG's as an industry are at that toddler stage. They know they have to go to the potty to shit or else get shit all over themselves, they are just reluctant to do so, or too forgetful to remember not to shit on themselves. We few who bitch at them and don't buy them are the parents trying to teach the toddler that shitting on oneself does not make one popular with other toddlers or parents.

We still hope they'll grow up to be at least non-stinky kids, and don't quite want to leave them to wallow in their shit alone.


Or you're like jealous little kids who don't have their own MMOGs to play with so you whine and snipe at those who do.  Bitter fucks indeed.

That's a really lame analogy, Haemish.
Daeven
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Posts: 1210


Reply #66 on: March 19, 2004, 05:10:23 PM

Quote from: Neph
Why don't you all just stop dwelling on MMOGs cause it's pretty clear you don't even like the fucking genre. You've been bitching for years on end and it still hasn't changed. Stop being bitter fucks and give it up already.



Baaaaaah. Baaaaaah.

Better?

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
Glamdring
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Posts: 139


Reply #67 on: March 19, 2004, 05:30:40 PM

Quote from: schmoo
Quote from: HaemishM
Quote from: Neph
Why don't you all just stop dwelling on MMOGs cause it's pretty clear you don't even like the fucking genre. You've been bitching for years on end and it still hasn't changed. Stop being bitter fucks and give it up already.


MMOG's as an industry are at that toddler stage. They know they have to go to the potty to shit or else get shit all over themselves, they are just reluctant to do so, or too forgetful to remember not to shit on themselves. We few who bitch at them and don't buy them are the parents trying to teach the toddler that shitting on oneself does not make one popular with other toddlers or parents.

We still hope they'll grow up to be at least non-stinky kids, and don't quite want to leave them to wallow in their shit alone.


Or you're like jealous little kids who don't have their own MMOGs to play with so you whine and snipe at those who do.  Bitter fucks indeed.

That's a really lame analogy, Haemish.


Do we really have to wait a full two weeks?
Sloth
Guest


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Reply #68 on: March 19, 2004, 05:50:57 PM

From where I sit, I think the core aspects of MMOGs are pretty much set. Grind XP, Get Loot, Some kind of endgame like PVP and/or Raiding. I don't think thats going to change. They will get refined, but essentially if you don't like XP grinding with friends or strangers and spending lots of your time online, this is not the genre for you.

CoH might be a good game of innovation on the core components of MMOGs, but at the end of the day even CoH has the basic tanker, nuker, healer group dynamic. Peoples mileage will vary on what they find fun in terms of combat, but overall if you don't like tanking, nuking, and healing I don't think MMOGs are every going to surprise or appeal to you.
El Gallo
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Reply #69 on: March 19, 2004, 05:57:26 PM

Whizbang's Graffe thread is th ebest I have seen but http://hem.bredband.net/b153747/wow/preview.htm
is worthwhile

and there are a few decent threads on
http://fohguild.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=e5adf71b8a238802da22346815cba4fe&forumid=11

for those of us who didn't get in :(

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
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