Another nail in the coffin for casuals: Upcoming Raid Reset Changes

[Cheddar]

...

Where on earth have you been for all the discussions we've had about add ons before?  You're doing pot again, aren't you.

I do not free base the marijauna.  Maybe I should start?

[cevik]

I do not free base the marijauna.  Maybe I should start?

Yes.

[Pococurante]

The impact I see is Monday nights will be even more hell to login than before.  I've already warned my friends we definitely need to find another night.

queue

Thank you - I'm tired of watching honest Spanish dragged through the gutter of message theory... ;)

[Wasted]

I love watching the Aussies bitch whenever a time issue pops up. OH NOES!

Considering I'm on Proudmoore, the Aussie craphole, I would politely like them to all go fuck themselves.

I'm glad really. Maybe they'll move to another server or quit or something. Fuck 99.9% of them are decked out in MC/BWL gear anyway. Fuck em.

Heh, you know some of us are Australian, right?

Doesn't mean I don't hate your countrymen, at least on WoW.

Awww come on man, we all wear thongs and pat Koalas all day. How can you hate us?

With the new oceania preferred servers opened I was embarrassed as all hell at all my loud mouthed country men yelling at the americans to go to their own servers.  I personally have never had any problems with the americans I have played with but now I can start to see where some of them may get their anger from...  Not playing on one of the 'unofficial' auusie servers like proudmore just how bad is the racism?  I wouldn't bring it up really but this is the second time I have read Paelos call proudmore an aussie shithole, and to be honest I find it offensive.  How does the presence of australians on the server qualify it as a shithole?

[Calantus]

You rerolled oceania too? I'm on Frostmourne - Aliiance, you? :P

And yeah, I've made it my basic policy never to roll on unofficial australian servers. I don't know what it is, but they always seem to be not very nice. I've also had people tell me on my old server that Blackrock is an absolute shithole, even when it's up.

[Paelos]

I explained my thinking on this in the Den, but to summarize:

Aussies are nice IRL, but you apparently sent most of your absolute dickholes to play WoW.

[Ironwood]

But that's true of every country.

[Megrim]

I explained my thinking on this in the Den, but to summarize:

Aussies are nice IRL, but you apparently sent most of your absolute dickholes to play WoW.

Actually, depending on what server you are playing on, i would imagine that you've run into the Australian counter-strike community. Soooo... hahah gl with it  :-D

[Wasted]

You rerolled oceania too? I'm on Frostmourne - Aliiance, you? :P

And yeah, I've made it my basic policy never to roll on unofficial australian servers. I don't know what it is, but they always seem to be not very nice. I've also had people tell me on my old server that Blackrock is an absolute shithole, even when it's up.

Yes I used Frostmourne as a chance to try out alliance too, but my level 7 dorf pally is already much neglected. 

If aussie proudmore is similar to the aussie CS community then my apologies to everyone on behalf of the rest of Australia. I quite like the game Counterstirke but cant play it because of the community.  Still I dont think they are that different from the rest of the young and rude from the rest of the world.  I was really wondering what distinguised the arsehole aussie catass from his international counterparts.

And now I'm supposed to browse the Den to see why...is this revenge?

[Paelos]

You don't have to browse the den. Some dillhole called me a dick for saying Aussies can go fuck themselves on Proudmoore server. Then he made lovely comments about my religion because of said comment. That's the long and short of it. All in all, I've stopped caring. They aren't going anywhere.

[HaemishM]

Not playing on one of the 'unofficial' auusie servers like proudmore just how bad is the racism? 

Austrialian is not a race.

[Fabricated]

The Aussie assholes aren't really all that much different from your typical American assholes, except for their extreme lag, constant D/C's, and non-stop bitching about the time problems. Overall they're more bitchy than the people on some of the other servers I have alts on. I don't know if that's really fair to say though since most of my alts are on RP servers where people are more laid back about the game thing and more focused on making out in the Deeprun Tram.

Our server seems to be incredibly wrapped up in the PVP hate too since Alliance gets stomped 99 times out of 100 in every battleground.

[Dren]

Not playing on one of the 'unofficial' auusie servers like proudmore just how bad is the racism? 

Austrialian is not a race.

Only a racist would say that!




I kid.

[Shockeye]

Not playing on one of the 'unofficial' auusie servers like proudmore just how bad is the racism? 

Austrialian is not a race.

But sending us Paul Hogan is still considered a hate crime.

[XMackenzie]

Patch 1.8.4

Battlegrounds

Battles must now last at least ten minutes after the start of the battle in order for the losing team to receive a Mark of Honor.

This little gem combined with the proposed 15 minute AFK "debuff" in 1.9 will be a real nail in the ability of PuG's to gain rep.  Looking at it from an AB perspective - I seem to see 5-0 matches from the wrong end a few times a night. 

The only way to win that I can see is not to play.

[Hoax]

PuG's suck anyways, on Arch the only pug BG is AV, which is where you go for a few bits of gear and to gain enough rank that you'll be considered to fill out guild groups for AB/WSG (we have WSG sundays).

There are always groups forming at the BG npc's and if they recognize your guild or if they see you have some pvp rank you can get a spot.  But basically you do need to work your way up the alliance rep ladder before you can get in with the top notch groups.  I would assume many servers have similar situations.

I've played in about 5 PuG AB's, each of them made me want to gouge my own eyes out.  In Tribes1 the community quickly realized how lame regular servers were.  The best servers quickly became full of admins that would boot anyone who didn't show the required amount of skill.  We took it a step further later and had great games organized in irc where two team captains picked 10 man squads and then assigned roles out of an available pool of players.  That was not only a big pride/ego boost but some of the best competition you can find without doing the serious fps catass'ing of practice/scrimmages/matches.  I mean sure, you had to have been in some top tribes to be guaranteed a spot but often there were old vets or just people who played in the top tier servers and never got kicked and played well who could get into the games.

Sounds like WoW's community needs to learn to have similar systems to ensure competitive, fun group pvp.  It is obvious world pvp is never comming back because Blizzard has never understood pvp outside of the RTS genre.

[HaemishM]

So what you are saying is that even geeks resort to playground politics?

[Ironwood]

Patch 1.8.4

Battlegrounds

Battles must now last at least ten minutes after the start of the battle in order for the losing team to receive a Mark of Honor.

This little gem combined with the proposed 15 minute AFK "debuff" in 1.9 will be a real nail in the ability of PuG's to gain rep.  Looking at it from an AB perspective - I seem to see 5-0 matches from the wrong end a few times a night. 

The only way to win that I can see is not to play.

What ?

Explain to me how the changes aren't a good thing ?

[HaemishM]

Half the fucktards who /afk out of battlegrounds when faced with a decent challenge just to honor-farm won't be playing battlegrounds anymore?

You know, you're right, I'm not seeing the bad part of that.

[tazelbain]

...

Where on earth have you been for all the discussions we've had about add ons before?  You're doing pot again, aren't you.

Is that what that blue glow means?

[cevik]

Half the fucktards who /afk out of battlegrounds when faced with a decent challenge just to honor-farm won't be playing battlegrounds anymore?

You know, you're right, I'm not seeing the bad part of that.

Actually, this makes you HAVE to /afk out when you're going to get steamrolled.  Right now if you're getting stomped and you play the whole battle you get 1 mark of honor, the change means that if you think you're going to lose in less than 10 minutes (which my team has done to others many times) you get no reward at all.  It's more beneficial to /afk out at the 2 minute mark on a crappy battle than to hold out for 7.

[Calantus]

Yep. If you afk out you get sucker-punched with a long wait. Fair enough. Except... if you stay you get no honor if you lose within 10 minutes, and a guild group that can't own the regular PUG in less than 10 minutes needs to practice more. In other words, if you PUG it you're gonna get a lot less honor and rep depending on how many guild groups the opposite faction puts out.

[Fabricated]

I've been on the receiving end of 7-8 minute asskickings in WSG and AB. This is bad.

The linked battlegrounds thing seems like a much better idea to me since neither side can plan to fight the same gank squads or shitty pickup groups, and you don't have to groan in misery when you pop and notice that the entire Horde team is made up of the same group of former High Warlords who rape you every. single. time. you. play.

[XMackenzie]

Seems they borked the patch a little and marks of honor aren't being awarded for any loss, even over 10 minutes. 

The reason I'm miffed about all this is that after achieving my desired Honor rank all I care about in AB is rep.  That doesn't mean I don't want to win - I'm actually more interested in having a shot- having a competitive game.

What would solve a lot of this crap is cross server BG's (since the BG's are completely divorced from any impact on actual server worlds) that allow for PuG vs Pug and Pre-set Group vs. Pre-set Group.  Reward the pre-sets with greater honor/rep per game and let them fight it out for ULTIMATE SUPREMECY, well allowing the low ranked blue wearing casuals to have their BG jr against each other.

[TheWalrus]

  The AFK changes mean I won't be playing AB or WG anymore. Morphiend can tell you that there is a group of people that queue up all day long for this stuff from the alliance side that own every Pug and well over half of guild groups. If you get screwed into their rotation, you can plan on losing EVERY game you play that night. So yeah, I've become the afker that I used to bitch about. Its just not fun. I enjoy a challenge yes, but getting steamrolled every fucking fight all night long is NOT fun for me. Don't kid yourself by saying this is a good change across the board. It isn't.

[Calantus]

I heard they pulled the 10-minute loss thingy. Haven't confirmed it for myself though.

[Merusk]

I heard they pulled the 10-minute loss thingy. Haven't confirmed it for myself though.

That would be a good thing.  Cal had a few bits explaining the thought process, but they all sounded like, "We see problems and we are discussing solutions, but here's just a half-solution for now.  We'll implement the rest of the idea later.. when we agree what it'll be."   When the players come-up with a better idea (PUG vs PUG and "join as group" vs "join as group" in the queue. ) within the first 20 minutes of the notes being posted, you really need to reasssess your thinking process.

I don't disagree that you shouldn't reward /afk players, but folks who try DO get steamrolled sometimes. (20/2000 loss, yay, go BWL Equipped Horde vs 12 random Alliance!)   Pisses me off when it happens, particularly after you've wated in the queue for 2 hours, but at least it's not a complete waste of time because you can get that 1/3 of 50 faction points.  (Emphasis to show how little "reward" we're talking here.)

[cevik]

That would be a good thing.  Cal had a few bits explaining the thought process, but they all sounded like, "We see problems and we are discussing solutions, but here's just a half-solution for now.  We'll implement the rest of the idea later.. when we agree what it'll be."   When the players come-up with a better idea (PUG vs PUG and "join as group" vs "join as group" in the queue. ) within the first 20 minutes of the notes being posted, you really need to reasssess your thinking process.

To be fair, what I got from her comments was "We have already decided on a really great scheme that will fix all this, but it will take us months to implement (expansion maybe?), so in the mean time EAT SHIT AND DIE CUSTOMERS!!!1!"

I might have imagined that last part..

[Ironwood]

Maybe I'm just biased because, even when up against the hardest Fixed Group on our server, the game was never under ten minutes.  I could also be biased because I'm horde and getting a fight is easier - if I get caught in a pickupgroup cycle, I just wait ten seconds after the fight to make sure they got another bunch of noobs and then rejoin.

Farming the Battlgrounds, however, is much easier when you can AFK.

All I'll say in reply is that ON MY SERVER these changes would in fact be a godsend.

Hey, ho, Different Strokes and whatnot.

[Jeff Kelly]

I heard they pulled the 10-minute loss thingy. Haven't confirmed it for myself though.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6133189&p=1&tmp=1#post6133189

[Alkiera]

I think the 'deserter penalty' makes a lot of sense.  A heck of a lot more than the 10 minute rule... especially if there are servers where matches frequently don't last that long. (And why doesn't Blizzard know that, if it's the case?)

Alkiera

[HaemishM]

(And why doesn't Blizzard know that, if it's the case?)

Money hats block vision.

[bhodi]

I can confirm after getting steamrolled last night in AB that I still got a mark of honor. it was rolled back with a hotfix this tuesday after being mistakenly implemented with the holiday patch. They confirm that they will use the 'deserter' rule (a debuff for X mins if you /afk out) rather than the no-honor rule. Explanations in these threads:


http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6133189&p=1&tmp=1#post6133189
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6141384&p=1&tmp=1#post6141384

[Dren]

I'm sure there is an obvious answer to why this is a stupid idea, but I'll ask anyway.  Why not just kick people out of the instance if they /afk?

What serious viable reason would somebody /afk in a BG other than trying to auto absorb faction/reputation/whatever?

I'm not a BG veteran so I'm probably missing something, but as people drop out of BG's don't other get ported in?  It would seem that would help with queues too.  No?

[SurfD]

I'm sure there is an obvious answer to why this is a stupid idea, but I'll ask anyway.  Why not just kick people out of the instance if they /afk?

What serious viable reason would somebody /afk in a BG other than trying to auto absorb faction/reputation/whatever?

I'm not a BG veteran so I'm probably missing something, but as people drop out of BG's don't other get ported in?  It would seem that would help with queues too.  No?

Thats the thing, if you "/afk" in any of the battlegrounds, you automatically get booted from the battle, and returned to your point of Entry (be it the city Battlemaster, or the Local Entry Portal).  If you do this, you gain no Mark of honor for losing the fight, cause you werent there when the loss occured.

The problem is, Rep / Honor farmers are smarter then that:

In the case of AV, where you gain rep for quest turnins globally from anyone who preforms a turnin, they are running a macro / wedging down some keyboard keys / doing something else, and basicly just "running continuously into a wall".  They are actively away from their keyboard, letting other people earn them rep, without entering an "AFK" state as detected by the game and therefore being ejected from the BG.

In the case of AB, WSG, where the turn around times on the games is usually much shorter, the honor / rep farmers generally dont /afk out unless someone is cockblocking them by turtling the game (WSG).  Generally, they either trade losses with friends from the other side, or deliberately lose just to quickly collect their 1 mark of honor from the opposing team.

The people that AFK out are usually the ones that get stuck in a queueing cycle with one of the uber-faction-catass squads from a big name guild who have essentially no hope of winning, and would rather drop out and try again, the ones who get stuck in a Turtlefest WSG game, or the ones that get stuck in the "never ending AV game" which can be all too common with decently balanced pugs.