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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: A few website updates 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: A few website updates  (Read 44740 times)
Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
on: November 14, 2005, 06:43:56 PM

There's a bunch of old material that has just gone up on my website at http://www.raphkoster.com, so if you have been wondering what I've been speaking and thinking about in the last year while the site wasn't updated, there it is. The last two blog posts should have a bunch of links.
Nija
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Reply #1 on: November 15, 2005, 12:20:08 PM

You are off your rocker.
Bunk
Contributor
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Operating Thetan One


Reply #2 on: November 15, 2005, 12:32:43 PM

I wouldn't go that far...

I kind of liked the slide show, interesting way of presenting it. The stuff near the end of course is what interests people - will we ever see true user contribution online games (that don't self distruct in a griefer paradise)?

Second Life is a step in that direction, but its really more of a toolset/sandbox than a "game". Still, I think they are on the right track. You just need something a little more accessable to the masses.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #3 on: November 15, 2005, 12:33:03 PM

I do believe that's a big part of why I have so many adoring fans.
Xanthippe
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Posts: 4779


Reply #4 on: November 15, 2005, 01:12:30 PM

Loved the slideshow.

Everyone doesn't really want games that appeal to women.  Everyone really just wants women to play their games.  Otherwise, wouldn't everyone be specifically looking to hire females to be on the design team, or to take more chances when it comes to design?

Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #5 on: November 15, 2005, 02:17:03 PM

Once upon a time there was a world where half of the population couldn't see the color blue. Painters got very frustrated when people kept asking them to paint their house the color of the sky, or of water, because they couldn't see blue, most of them, and they didn't know what was being asked for.

The painter's union started having seminars on blue. "Sort of greenish, but with less yellow in it."

The painter trade association was very surprised when something sort of purplish sold very well, and immediately started measuring the red quotient in it.

A lot of fans of painting said that it didn't matter, because blue was sissy anyway, and not real painting.

But the people who could see blue kept insisting that blue was all around them, if only they would look and see.

So a few of the painter companies tried hiring some of the folks who could see blue. They quickly complained that other workers were painting over their blue all the time, because they couldn't see it. "Outline it in yellow?" they were told. Or, "Are you sure there's really blue out there? Because we see no evidence of it, and market research says that there aren't any blue paintings that sell." A lot of them never got hired, because it was figured that if they were crazy enough to want to paint with blue, they'd probably make bad employees.

A lot of the folks who could see blue ended up doing other things with paint instead--calligraphy, or graphic design. Nobody really noticed that they used blue like crazy, so it was only the painting industry that had a limited market.

Eventually, though, it was noticed that over time, everyone gets to see blue--the folks who didn't see it tended to start seeing it as they got older. But then they had trouble working in the painting industry too, because they were too old, and their paintings didn't have enough red and yellow in them, and were "too subdued for the market."

In the end, the anti-blue brigades even got the industry to the point where the top sellers were only certain shades of yellow and red and green.

The conclusion, of course, was inevitable. Painting was probably inherently incompatible with blue. There was never a market for blue. Those blue-seers who worked with paints adapted in order to make a living.

And that's why in that world there tend to be very few seascapes or pictures of puffy clouds.

HaemishM
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Posts: 42629

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #6 on: November 15, 2005, 02:18:55 PM

Your aphorism needs more cowbell.

Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #7 on: November 15, 2005, 02:46:40 PM

Technically, I think it is a parable. An aphorism is something like "The Internet is the platform for virtual worlds; PCs and consoles are just the way you access them."
cevik
I'm Special
Posts: 1690

I've always wondered about the All Black People Eat Watermelons


Reply #8 on: November 15, 2005, 02:51:06 PM

I told you that acid was some good shit.. just smoke a bowl and you'll come down a little man.. and put your damn shirt back on..

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Fargull
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Reply #9 on: November 16, 2005, 06:55:25 AM

I think it is a great comentary on oral sex and society.  The great Blue debate.

"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42629

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #10 on: November 16, 2005, 08:51:08 AM

Technically, I think it is a parable. An aphorism is something like "The Internet is the platform for virtual worlds; PCs and consoles are just the way you access them."

Aphorism just sounded so much better.

Righ
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Teaching the world Google-fu one broken dream at a time.


Reply #11 on: November 16, 2005, 09:47:00 AM

I loved that parable. And I look forward to Raph's next blue painting.

The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
Dren
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Reply #12 on: November 16, 2005, 10:13:13 AM

Me too, but I hope he doesn't JUST use the color blue.  That wouldn't hold my attention very long.
AOFanboi
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Reply #13 on: November 16, 2005, 10:59:21 AM

At least it wasn't a car analogy. Those do by definition not work.

Current: Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #14 on: November 16, 2005, 11:02:55 AM

Clearly all games must have red, and the fact that your mythical game doesn't have red means it'll never attract the attention of my guild, who is everyone, thus you will fail. See you in Crimsonbane!
Shockeye
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Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


WWW
Reply #15 on: November 16, 2005, 11:04:36 AM

Clearly all games must have red, and the fact that your mythical game doesn't have red means it'll never attract the attention of my guild, who is everyone, thus you will fail. See you in Crimsonbane!

You've got what? Two and a half weeks before your book comes out?
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #16 on: November 16, 2005, 11:05:44 AM

Tomorrow, actually. But it has very little blue.

I also won't be hyping it here. To quote Tycho of Penny Arcade, it's not FOR you.
Shockeye
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Posts: 6668

Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


WWW
Reply #17 on: November 16, 2005, 11:15:05 AM

Tomorrow, actually. But it has very little blue.

I also won't be hyping it here. To quote Tycho of Penny Arcade, it's not FOR you.

Amazon was listing it for December 5th. And you should hype it everywhere you can. You wrote it, you should be proud of it. In fact, I consider myself a dummy and could probably use most of the information in the book. That is if I don't drool all over the pages to the point where I can no longer read them.
Bunk
Contributor
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Operating Thetan One


Reply #18 on: November 16, 2005, 11:17:23 AM

Yes, he should hype it. Especially since I may in fact have an anecdote within it.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
Fargull
Contributor
Posts: 931


Reply #19 on: November 16, 2005, 11:19:38 AM

I agree with Shockeye, or at the very least his avatar should buy it.  Secondly, someone really needs to photoshop someone falling off that bridge on the cover.

"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #20 on: November 16, 2005, 11:28:59 AM

It has a new cover now. Amazon has the correct one. I had nothing to do with either cover.

B&N wanted it first. Something about being one of the biggest booksellers in the world lets em do that sort of thing.

Enough about my book for newbies. There's a whole world of blue out there! (I believe, anyway. I can't see any blue.)
HaemishM
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Posts: 42629

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #21 on: November 16, 2005, 11:29:14 AM

Tomorrow, actually. But it has very little blue.

I also won't be hyping it here. To quote Tycho of Penny Arcade, it's not FOR you.

Dude, whore that motherfucker out like you got kneepads and chapstick. When(if) my novel gets published, you can goddam bet I'll do the same.

Shockeye
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 6668

Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


WWW
Reply #22 on: November 16, 2005, 11:34:18 AM

Enough about my book for newbies.

Let me help you pimp it a bit. All better.
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #23 on: November 16, 2005, 11:36:40 AM

I see your pimp and raise you another!
Shockeye
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 6668

Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


WWW
Reply #24 on: November 16, 2005, 11:37:21 AM

I see your pimp and raise you another!

My god. You willingly chose Freddie. You have no shame.
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #25 on: November 16, 2005, 11:38:28 AM

I was seriously considering Freddie Mercury, but I'm not that secure in my masculinity.

Raph had such a nice thread here once.
Shockeye
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 6668

Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


WWW
Reply #26 on: November 16, 2005, 11:44:25 AM

I was seriously considering Freddie Mercury, but I'm not that secure in my masculinity.

I think I would respect you more with Mercury.

Raph had such a nice thread here once.

Hulk smash!
Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #27 on: November 16, 2005, 11:51:11 AM

The question is whether I or my book are in the index of Lum's book. If not, I'll have to kick him out of the thread. After all, he will likely outsell me by an order of magnitude. :P
Xanthippe
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Reply #28 on: November 16, 2005, 12:03:24 PM

Raph, just write "MMO Design for Dummies."

(See how fast blue gets covered up?  Snap).

Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #29 on: November 16, 2005, 12:07:06 PM

Richard Bartle already wrote it. (THAT book, I'll hype. It's good.)

(Yes, Raph, you're in the book. Although the editor tried to say I misspelled "Ralph".)
cevik
I'm Special
Posts: 1690

I've always wondered about the All Black People Eat Watermelons


Reply #30 on: November 16, 2005, 12:17:09 PM

Richard Bartle already wrote it. (THAT book, I'll hype. It's good.)

(Yes, Raph, you're in the book. Although the editor tried to say I misspelled "Ralph".)

I don't think "Raph is a schmuck, virtual world r 4 l00zerz!!1!@!!!one!" is really what he was looking for..

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HaemishM
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Posts: 42629

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #31 on: November 16, 2005, 12:40:55 PM

Why would he a need a book for that one, when he can get it here for free?  Rimshot

WayAbvPar
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Posts: 19268


Reply #32 on: November 16, 2005, 12:54:24 PM

I will buy the Lum book, if only for the fame by distant association it will grant me (in my own head, mostly). Unless he didn't use my 'greatest MMOG moment'. In that case, I will do everything in my power to ruin his book sales  evil

Since I am powerless, it really won't hurt the bottom line at all.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
pxib
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Reply #33 on: November 16, 2005, 12:55:42 PM

We don't need blue, we need blues. Purples and greens also. Blue is a color on the palette, but the palette is for mixing. Blue alone annoys the blue blind. Their eyes skip over blue content unless it has a little orange or white mixed in. Also, even those who can see blue don't want it for its own sake. If it isn't as masterfully painted as everything else, they'll be as disappointed as those who can't see it at all.

Enough metaphor.

I don't know what players want, but I know what I want. I want stories to tell. I don't care if "content" is player created, but story absolutely must be. My own words. A few examples from my gaming past:

Thed Ffnod was a fisherman before it became profitable to be so. He had a long white beard, wore a pink floppy hat, dressed in a long pink robe, and gave away free fish with a semi-religious fervor. It turns out that fishing is excellent strength training. Interested in exploring a little, Thed learned how to use a hammer so he might protect himself in the forest. One  day a mad mage decided to kill Thed while he was fishing. Old Ffnod resigned himself to a quick death, he didn't have much of value and this sort of thing happened fairly often. The mage fart-failured a few energy bolts... so Thed got his hammer out "just in case". The mage continued to fail. Thed watched. The mage grew frustrated and pulled out an ornate, poisoned kryss. He struck Thed once, and by reflex the old man attacked in return...

...and slew him with one blow.

His angry ghost haunted Thed for many minutes.

-

I made Book as a cave shaman before it was popular to do so. I was just curious what that spec line did. This was fairly shortly after the battlegrounds had been added to Dark Age of Camelot. Midgard held the central keep and one of those interminable waiting games was happening outside the front gate. About six of us huddled near the door, about ten of them on the bridge. Every once in a while some crazy skirmisher would breach the no-man's land between, leading to some short lived exchange of arrows and magic... but for the most part we waited for the other side to make the first move.

Screw that, I thought. Cave shamans have an AOE poison and an AOE disease (which halves the effectiveness of healing). They're all standing in a huddle on that bridge, I'll bet I can get them all. I did. With both.They went into a panic. "CHAAAAARGE!" We slaughtered all but two.

"Book is like an army!" somebody said.

-

The Gray Maelstrom was a god-like being from another dimension, stabilized within a containment suit so he can function in ours. When the mad scientist who summoned him was mugged and left in a coma, the Maelstrom turned to fighting crime. Technically he was a "defender", but his powers were of mostly offensive design. Still, he could not do everything on his own... when a task proved beyond his ability one day he called out "Who Can Assist Me? I Am Not Omnipotent In This Weakened State." On this particular day help came in the form of a scrapper named The Little Mermaid. "You're huge!" she said when she saw him. "You Are Small." he replied. She had dangerous claws. The task went well.

"My name is Ariel," she explained later, "and the sea witch Ursula exiled me to a lake here in Paragon City..."

-

There's this one quest in the Orc/Troll starting area where you get to blackjack slacking peons. I didn't complete the quest so I could come back there and do it again when I got bored. Huhuhuh.

---

I tell those stories to other gamers and they say "That game sounds awesome!" and then I say something like "No, the game was lousy. It was all about doing the same boring thing over and over again. Just every once in a while something memorable would happen, unrelated to the game but inspired by it." As a member of a dungeon running group in DAoC once pointed out,  even though they were technically failures, it was a lot more fun to try to rescue a group deep inside a dungeon (get people together... sneak around... die again... have everyone cheer when we finally succeeded!) than to grind the dungeon itself. We weren't getting any experience, but it never felt like a waste.

I don't care if I can have a house or make a town or craft unique items or change the world. If it doesn't lead to stories it's just the same boring thing I have to do over and over in order to make it feel like I'm playing the game for any reason at all.

if at last you do succeed, never try again
Nija
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2136


Reply #34 on: November 16, 2005, 01:33:33 PM

Hey Lum, where should we order it so that you get the most money kicked back?

Like the guy who is riding his motorcycle around the world has a spot on a website where you pay him like $25 and he mails you a signed hardcover book, instead of paying $16+$5 shipping for a non-signed paperback off amazon.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 01:35:27 PM by Nija »
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