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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Archived: We distort. We decide.  |  Topic: A Modding Article Not About Jack Thompson 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: A Modding Article Not About Jack Thompson  (Read 5485 times)
schild
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on: November 13, 2005, 11:44:27 PM

Evangolis
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Reply #1 on: November 14, 2005, 01:38:04 AM

The question that comes to my mind is, to what extent does Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap.) hold up in the mod world?  Not sure how to answer that beyond just having an opinion.

The next thing that comes to me is the disparity between what I hear people say about NWN, and the large amount of material that is out there.  Is there traction for the game among those who don't like to install large data patches from total strangers?  Is this another case where people who enjoy the game just play it, and everybody else hangs out on message boards saying that it sucks?

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Signe
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Reply #2 on: November 14, 2005, 03:29:26 AM

Thanks, Bunk!  Mods... I agree! I'm addicted.   In fact, I nearly put off reading your article hoping someone would make a cheat for it.  Oh well.

PS  Some of us enjoy the games and still hang out on message boards saying they suck just to fit in, you know.   Heartbreak
« Last Edit: November 14, 2005, 01:39:03 PM by Signe »

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HaemishM
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Reply #3 on: November 14, 2005, 08:28:51 AM

The question that comes to my mind is, to what extent does Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap.) hold up in the mod world?  Not sure how to answer that beyond just having an opinion.

Mods up the percentages to somewhere in the neighborhood of 95%.

Quote
The next thing that comes to me is the disparity between what I hear people say about NWN, and the large amount of material that is out there.  Is there traction for the game among those who don't like to install large data patches from total strangers?  Is this another case where people who enjoy the game just play it, and everybody else hangs out on message boards saying that it sucks?

Just as many people like NWN for the exact reasons I dislike it, the fast-paced combat. To each his own. There are obviously a lot of folks with modding skills who do like it, though, just based on the number of mods available. And of course, many people will overlook the game's shortcomings just to be able to mod something.

Bunk
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Reply #4 on: November 14, 2005, 09:28:22 AM

The thing about the good mod communities, is that the decent mods usually find their way to the surface. For example, the Sims Resource site I mentioned promotes "featured artists", which are essentially the ones with the most popular downloads. Most of the bigger sites use feedback and rating systems, which aren't perfect, but at least tend to let you filter through the crap.

I mean yea, if you look at all of the mods created for a given game like NWN, and say 95% are crap, that 5% still leaves you with thousands of great mods that really enhance and improve the game.

I don't think I could have even finished Morrowind if someone hadn't redone the art to not look asstastic.

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Kail
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Reply #5 on: November 14, 2005, 12:40:36 PM

A few random thoughts I have on modding:

-I hate hate HATE FUCKING HATE it when people try to excuse a poor game based on it's potential mod-ability.  Maybe I'm talking to wierd people, but I hear this constantly, just about every time some new flashy FPS comes out (times about four million if it's by id).  "Yeah, Doom 3 wasn't that great, but think about what the mod community will do with that kickass engine!  It's awesome!  It's got great possibilities etc. etc."  Yeah, great.  I don't give a crap about possibilities.  I want to play a video game.  I drop fifty bucks on a game, that game better be fun out of the box.  If some guy makes a great mod for it two years down the road, it makes me wonder why the hell I'm paying for id or whoever to make the game in the first place, if this guy can just come along later and do their job better than they did and for free.  Mods are an interesting feature, but developers shouldn't be RELYING on them to make their games palatable.  Putting out a crappy game and having it improved by modders (e.g. Morrowind) still means that you put out a crappy game in the first place.

The question that comes to my mind is, to what extent does Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap.) hold up in the mod world? Not sure how to answer that beyond just having an opinion.

This is my main problem with the whole "Mods will save us all" argument.  Quality mods do exist... but they are RARE.  There are a lot of mods that are good "for a mod," but there are VERY few that come close to being professional quality.  Personally, when I'm playing something, I don't want to have to pay attention to who published it to know what my opinion of it should be.  If it's a big megacorp or an indie developer or some kids doing a mod out of their parents basement, I end up holding all of those things up to the same measure of "is this, ultimately, worth my time to play or not."  They all get held up to the same standard, and there are very few mods that can compete against that.


-I've got to point to Unreal Tournament 2004 for probably the best implementation of mod-ability I've ever seen.  The game ships, like most FPS games, with a map editor, but unlike most FPS games (and most games, period, including all the ones mentioned in the article, I think), it also ships with a workable 3D modelling program (Maya PLE) and a tool to export models from Maya to UT2K4.  Plus, in the collectors edition, there's a whole second DVD full of video tutorials on how to use the map editor, how to use Maya, how to use UPaint, and so on.  This REALLY impressed me.  If I want to do a mod for UT2K4, EVERYTHING I need is packed in with the box.  I don't need to spring for 3DSMax or anything, I don't need to scour message boards trying to figure out how to export skeletal meshes... it's all there in one incredibly handy package.  It's difficult to express how helpful all that is.  Very nice.

-Also, thanks for the links.  It's hard for me to keep up with which mods are good and which ones are crap, so thanks for giving me some specific places to check out.

Signe
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Reply #6 on: November 14, 2005, 01:42:26 PM

Even with every cheat and mod I could find... and there were a lot... I STILL couldn't finish Morrowind.  However, at least I was able to erase all traces of those pesky cliff racers while I didn't finish it!

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Sky
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Reply #7 on: November 14, 2005, 01:48:46 PM

Quote
-I hate hate HATE FUCKING HATE it when people try to excuse a poor game based on it's potential mod-ability.  Maybe I'm talking to wierd people, but I hear this constantly, just about every time some new flashy FPS comes out (times about four million if it's by id).  "Yeah, Doom 3 wasn't that great, but think about what the mod community will do with that kickass engine!  It's awesome!  It's got great possibilities etc. etc."  Yeah, great.  I don't give a crap about possibilities.  I want to play a video game.  I drop fifty bucks on a game, that game better be fun out of the box.  If some guy makes a great mod for it two years down the road, it makes me wonder why the hell I'm paying for id or whoever to make the game in the first place, if this guy can just come along later and do their job better than they did and for free.  Mods are an interesting feature, but developers shouldn't be RELYING on them to make their games palatable.  Putting out a crappy game and having it improved by modders (e.g. Morrowind) still means that you put out a crappy game in the first place.
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Ironwood
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Reply #8 on: November 16, 2005, 06:59:16 AM

There's nothing on earth that could make Dungeon Seige worthwhile, with the possible exception of a 'Real Life Aria Giovanni Suck Off' addon.

It's really a shitty game.

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Bunk
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Reply #9 on: November 16, 2005, 08:45:26 AM

I don't think the modding world is quite ready to handle that addon yet.

I hope.

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Bunk
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Reply #10 on: November 16, 2005, 02:31:57 PM

For those wondering about modding in The Movies - this site: http://www.tmws.themoviesplanet.com/forum/index.php already has tutorials up for reskining costumes and body makeup.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
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