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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Game Design/Development  |  Topic: Topics I'm Stealing from Raph 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Topics I'm Stealing from Raph  (Read 2589 times)
Evangolis
Contributor
Posts: 1220


on: November 02, 2005, 09:53:24 PM

I've been poking about Raph's site, and he's got some stuff I was interested to see, so I thought I'd bring it back here to share.

Here are his comments about this Gamasutra article on prototyping, which I found pretty damn interesting.  While the ideas focus on 'simple' games, I think there are takeaway lessons for development of larger projects.  If you just want to play the games, the site is here.  I haven't played these any of these games yet, but I'm DLing Tower of Goo as soon as I get done with this net session.


The other thing I wanted to note here was Raph's essentially commentless link to this article on the Lost Garden blog.  It suggests an alternative business model for game making based on 'regional' touring bands, vs the corporate music industry.  Now, I used to know a few bands like this when I was younger, and their business models were mostly concerned with getting laid, but the Lost Garden article looks at things a bit more economically.  The term he uses for the games he is talking about is 'village games', to differentiate them from the stuff pumped out in the corporate music or game model.  While this isn't an entirely new idea, it does seem to me that there is more detail in this rendition than we usually get.  Here are a few points which I'll discuss:

Quote
For the moment, I'm assuming that you are in it for the love of making great games and that the slow road [to profitability] is just as good. In that case, you need to consider how to fund your village game.

If you aren't working for love, I'm not sure there is enough money to make the world not suck.  And, as he points out later, the 'big money' from corporate work is pretty much a fraud.

Quote
The long life of a village game occurs because it is highly insulated from direct competition.

Which is one concern I have with this model.  If the indie small game environment proliferates, then will it choke on its own waste?

Quote
In short, here is a unique business model that provide low entry barriers, low competition, easy access to seed capital and copious amounts of creative freedom. The money is good, but not great. However, the chance to build your very own profitable game company is nearly priceless. That is a dream that was crushed out of most developers long ago. The basic business drivers of small numbers of highly profitable customers make it all possible.

If you don't want to read his article, I'd suggest that this is the takeaway.

Quote
Hundreds of bands have tried to make a living touring their local cities, playing gigs and selling t-shirts. Most fail, but a few succeed because it is a real business model that provides a solid service to fans of live music. It is a hard life, but you are your own person and you get to do something that you love.

It is worth noting that of the various bands I knew when I was young, none are still in existence, and few ever made more than a marginal living.  However, all of them had a very good time while it lasted.

I'd also point out that I seen this model fail people in the PBeM era of gaming.  Sure, there are some who have prospered, but more who did not.  I would be very interested if there were some way to figure the success rate associated with this model in the past.

Anyhow, I hope you find some of this of some interest.

"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #1 on: November 02, 2005, 10:19:11 PM

Some random comments.

The comparison between games and bands is a terrible one, but the article itself is pretty decent. The problem with the overall analogy is that there is a demand for live music, which is different than recorded music. There isn't really a demand for indie game vs. other games. But again, the article itself was pretty decent.

As fat as prototyping, I've always felt that for games you HAVE to use rapid prototyping as a development methodology. I am not a devlopment methodology Nazi by any means, usually I say go with whatever works. But with games the problem is you aren't just working towards correctness but fun, and fun is hard to judge. You don't want to get into a situation like Master of Orion 3 where the game isn't fun but you keep telling yourself you are going to add the fun in later - suddenly it's launch day and the game isn't fun and you aren't sure if it ever even could be.

Most games that are pretty fun in alpha stage are pretty fun by release. And most games that are not fun in alpha stage are not fun in release. If you don't get the fun in early it may turn out you spent months or years working in a fruitless direction.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Evangolis
Contributor
Posts: 1220


Reply #2 on: November 02, 2005, 11:20:29 PM

Note sure if you read the Gamasutra article, but 'fun from the start or never fun' was one of their big points.

"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19212

sentient yeast infection


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Reply #3 on: November 03, 2005, 12:56:23 AM

I've been following the Experimental Gameplay Project for a while now.  "Attack of the Killer Swarm" is my personal favorite - really dumb game, but man is it fun to control a giant swarm of evil bugs that flings people into the air.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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