Do we dare believe? Doom 3 this summer...

[HaemishM]

What was it about Quake that made it so drastically different than Doom 2, iD's previous game?

Hmmmm, wasn't the weapons, they were mostly the same as Doom2. Hmmm, wasn't the story, since Quake didn't have a story. It was the fact that the game used polygons instead of sprites, making the environment a "true" 3d system. That's it, in a nutshell, and that is a technological accomplishment. The basic gameplay didn't change all that much. That's one of the reasons I really didn't give a shit about Quake when it came out. I'd played Doom 1 a lot, seen Doom 2 and the Quake demo did nothing for me. The other thing it offered was decent netcode, but since I didn't have a good Net connection at the time, I never bothered with it.

Skip ahead to Quake 3. Goddamn, this looks like the same game, only with much more polygons, shinier graphics, etc. Same fucking guns. Same fucking gameplay, only there wasn't any single-player to speak of. The multiplayer was fun, fast-paced and extremely limited.

There has been no innovation come out of id in terms of new gameplay, new game types or anything but engine and netcode work since Doom 1. It's all been technological accomplishments. Those are good, the industry needs them. But as a consumer, I don't want to buy a tech demo, I want to buy a game. A new game. Doom 3 does not look like a new game, it looks like an old game with a shinier wrapper.

FPS's can do a lot more than the Doom formula promises. Look at Unreal Tournament (any version) and its weapons. They are different. There are no analogues in the Doom-i-verse or Quake-i-verse to the bio-sludge gun, at least not in the gameplay id has released. It's a subtle weapon that most people don't know how to use (me included). But it can certainly change gameplay. Hell, take Counterstrike, itself a modificiation of a modification of a Quake engine. There is no analogue to the type of gameplay that the weapons buying system provides. Deus Ex took the idea of FPS, and grafted skills, a deep story and sneaker play to the whole forumla. Thief took the FPS and went an entirely different direction.

And id released pretty tech demos.

[cevik]

What was it about Quake that made it so drastically different than Doom 2, iD's previous game?

It was the fact that Trent Reznor created the soundtrack.

[Rodent]

ID have been pretty innovative, the fact that people still play their games in vast numbers, the fact that so many dev houses use their engines and even to some extent rip their gameplay from time to time support the claim that ID has always been on the edge when it comes to FPS games.

Saying games like Doom II, Quake and Quake 3 brought nothing new is like saying the RPG scene saw nothing new with the comming of aD&D.

Doom III may or may not bring something new to the market, but ID's previous accomplishments should make anyone who enjoys FPS games atleast consider it.

And lastly, Doom III delayed? Far as I can remember ID have never set a date for it's release, ID being right up there with 3Drealms when it comes to using the "when it's done" slogan.

[schild]

Doom III had better off me SOMETHING that UT2k4 doesn't offer me. It could start with a blowjob treat in the box.

[Rodent]

Doom III had better off me SOMETHING that UT2k4 doesn't offer me. It could start with a blowjob treat in the box.

Singleplayer campaign?

[HaemishM]

Saying games like Doom II, Quake and Quake 3 brought nothing new is like saying the RPG scene saw nothing new with the comming of aD&D.

I didn't say they brought NOTHING new to the table. I clearly stated they brought a lot of technological innovations in 3d rendering, netcode, etc.

But the GAMEPLAY, which is what matters to me, hasn't changed at all, at least not by id's hands. They build great engines that people put good gameplay into; see Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Soldier of Fortune, Half-Life, Counter-Strike, etc. for proof.

I'm not a game developer, so what they do in the engine doesn't make me want to buy Doom 3. It makes me want to play the game's using that licensed engine.

[Sky]

What was it about Quake that made it so drastically different than Doom 2, iD's previous game?

It was the fact that Trent Reznor created the soundtrack.

And my Quake cd sits in my music collection, where it's been since my LAN group broke up years ago. For a while it was my 'music to make love to'. It's wicked good for that imo.

[HaemishM]

That brings a whole new meaning to the word "nailgun."

[Phred]

What was it about Quake that made it so drastically different than Doom 2, iD's previous game?

For me, the most memorable thing about Quake compared to Doom 2 was the complete abandonment of Co-op mode. Damn I hated that. The hacked in Co-op mode someone made didn't really cut it.

I loved Doom 2 mainly because a buddy and I spent hours nightly playing through it on co-op. Was some of the most fun I'd had in a game back then. I found the abandonment of co-op a big disappointment, and it set a trend that persists to this day, as most games completely ignore that style of play.

[Megrim]

That brings a whole new meaning to the word "nailgun."

 .. Which is a pretty original weapon, you've got to admit.

[Rasix]

Carpenters would disagree.

[Megrim]

In a video game you tool! (hur-hur oh lolz)

[Jain Zar]

Hell, if all you want is Doom but prettier, go download Jdoom and the other Doomsday project patches.  

If you want OOH SCARY with system abusing pixel shaders, just download Tenebrae for Quake.  And watch an 8 year old or so game run as slow on a kickass system today as it did on the average home computer in 96, only vastly prettier and creepier.

That's it.  Doom 3 really isn't anything new.  Its the same game we had for years.

And if I need pretty and quasi scary, my currently 100 dollar Gamecube has Resident Evil and Resident Evil Zero for under 20 bucks.  Which is MUCH cheaper than a top of the line videocard, something Doom 3 is all but certain to need, given how the Tenebrae mod for Quake makes my Athlon 64 3200 with a gig of ram and a 9600 256 meg Radeon cry in pain..

[Sky]

Ooo..someone brought up the GC!

ETERNAL DARKNESS!

[Rasix]

THE TUB SCENE. God, I nearly crapped myself the first time I saw that.  That game is way more fun if you let yourself stay insane most of the time.

[HaemishM]

That brings a whole new meaning to the word "nailgun."

 .. Which is a pretty original weapon, you've got to admit.

Not really. It's just an assault rifle, except it "OOOOHHH FIRES NAILS! HARDCORE!1!@!" I don't remember it having any kind of special properties that altered gameplay other than "Shoot really really fast at whatever is in front of you." Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Unreal brought in "alt fire" which could and did significantly alter the way you use the weapons. Some alt fire was just faster firing, but some, like the sludge gun, required a completely different mindset to use effectively.

[schild]

The 'stake-gun' in Painkiller is pretty damned cool. And it has an actual response that the nailgun should have had. Too bad ragdoll physics didn't really exist back then.

[geldonyetich]

Ah yes indeed, one of the more fun weapons in Nobody Lives Forever 2 was the crossbow that actully pinned opponents to the wall.    The crossbow in Resident Evil was fun for the same reason versus crows.   Hmm, I think there may have been a weapon that did that in Devil May Cry 1 and/or 2.

BTW, Thief: Deadly Shadows pulled an 80% rating on Gamespy, though they did cite lots of oddities with the graphic presentation and how levels are divided.

[Sky]

I jammed NOLF2 in between a couple other games, I was pretty rushed playing through it. My memory was that it had great potential, but was stymied by attempting to outdo the original. The plane level in the original was an all-time classic (well, the 'end' of the plane level, heh), but fighting femal ninjas in a trailer in a tornado was just...I dunno, kinda reaching imo. But the engine and weapons and all were cool beans, I had a lot of fun in the level after you scuba with that xbow...

[schild]

Hmmm. Gamespy. They gave SWG a 60% when it should have gotten a 7%. I guess a margin of error of 53% isn't that bad on a corporate gaming site.

[HaemishM]

Gamespy is to honest reviews what Bill Clinton was to faithful husbands.

[schild]

Bill Clinton doesn't play role-playing games to be a politician.

....

Why does that wookie live on Endor?

[HaemishM]

THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

[schild]

YOU MUST ACQUIT.

[Alluvian]

The Chewbacca defense.  Brilliant.

[Sky]

I love the Chewbacca defense. That's a core reason of why I dislike RotJ. I almost crapped my pants when they used it on South Park.