Do we dare believe? Doom 3 this summer...

[Glamdring]

http://www.forbes.com/business/businesstech/newswire/2004/05/11/rtr1366976.html

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Video game publisher Activision Inc. and games developer id Software Tuesday said that the highly anticipated game "Doom 3" will be released this summer.

"Doom 3," which was previewed during the E3 video game industry trade show two years ago, will be released for personal computers this summer. An Xbox version of the game is also expected this year.

I wonder how many preorders this will generate...

[Alluvian]

I wish I could get excited for this game, but the more I see the less I care.  All the monsters are leftover creatures from the creatures NOT cool enough to appear on the cover of some crappy 80's rock band.  I mean really, a skull with a little mechanical jetpack on it?  Come on.  They make me laugh my ass off, not wet my pants.

Why they felt the need to stupidly graft implants onto all the creatures in the game is beyond me.  What makes a demon with robotic legs more scary?  It is just a demon that now needs special parking priviledges.

Not going to bother upgrading for this one.  When I do upgrade, I will go back and see if I can grab a used copy cheaper.

I do hope the game does not suck.  I just have a real real bad feeling.  And it started with the 15 year old pimply angst ridden teen who did their art design.

[WayAbvPar]

Not sure I could care less at this point. There are so many fun FPS games on the market these days that buying a whole new rig just to play with the shiny seems like overkill (and a giant PITA to boot).

Meh.

[Daydreamer]

I think I may get it just for the DM match.  My roomate and I were weened off of 4 player Quake 1 Lan play, which appears to be the basis of the MP.

[Sky]

Doom 3 just screams CHEEESY to me. Sure, nice shader usage, nice lighting. Style directly from my jr high school sketchbook.

Same with the vaunted quake netcode. It could play smooth as butter, but still be the archaic multiplayer id has always offered. The landscape has changed since then.

And survival horror? Id has never created a game I've thought had good single player, ever.

[Alluvian]

Survival horror only works if it is scary.  Doom 3 screenshots make me laugh more than cringe.

Maybe if the critter design, sound, and animation was done by the folks doing the Silent Hill series...

[eldaec]

I can muster a small amount of interest in HL2. But doing so completely wipes out any potential remaining interest in other future FPSs.

The genre seems to be becoming about as innovative and interesting as that of RTSs.

Does D3 have any features I should be interested in?

[Big Gulp]

No enthusiasm for Doom 3.  I am, however, very interested in HL2 and Stalker.  Stalker looks to be completely unique and as for HL2, we've all seen the videos; that'll be bought without even reading a review.

To be truthful, the last game I actually enjoyed by ID was Doom 2.  The Quake games have done nothing for me, and I just can't give a damn about boring ass deathmatch games like Quake and Unreal Tournament.  If I want multiplayer goodness I'll go with Battlefield 1942 and it's mods, and even then I only play that every once in a while.

[Jacob0883]

I am not very excited about this game either.  I just recently reinstalled doom 2 and found that, despite my extra years of game playing, I still can't beat that damned game without cheating.  I don't like games like that and I never will like games like that.  I will stick with Delta Force if I want to play a FPS.

[Slayerik]

Call me crazy but I was actually excited after playing that old Doom 3 Alpha leak. It had a jump-in-your-seat factor, that I haven't seen in a game in a while. One of my favorite parts in it, there is a baddy waiting in a crevice for you, and if you look into the window you can see reflection of him, was quite cool.

The way the mobs jump at you knocking you around is quite ruthless and a nice addition. I say even if ID software should be renamed Engines'r'us, don't count Doom 3 out of being a good game just yet.

----

Also, even in that unoptimized Alpha test I was able to crank settings and hold decent-good framerates on this rig:

P 4 2.2  (overclocked to 2.6)
2x512mb Dual Channel PC3200 RAM
9800 Pro

[Alluvian]

I played the alpha which ran like shit for me, and then later something that was called a beta that ran a LITTLE better, but still like shit, and the gameplay just didn't interest me.

My problem is not that I have a cutting edge system, I don't.  But I can run farcry just peachy keen and doom3 runs like shit.  There is no excuse for that.  No matter what doom 3 is doing, it does not LOOK that much better than farcry and is certainly not rendering huge expanses of terrain.

Doom 3 engine just feels sick and bloated.  Maybe the final release will be all fixed up but I have serious doubts that the horsepower needed to run it will be worth the tiny amount of extra shiny.

[Slayerik]

HL 2 is the game i'm really looking forward to seeing...but I will buy Doom 3. I think ragging on it is the 'in' thing to do around here :) Regardless, I hear where you all are coming from...some of the screenies look ridiculous (skull thing in particular) but I'm an old Doom fan so I say bring it on!

[Sky]

"In" thing or not, I've always had the same opinion I posted above about id. I can still remember the day I first saw Wolf3D and thought about how many ways it was a step backwards in gaming, because for many years a LOT was sacrificed on the 3D altar. Doom 1/2 simply couldn't hold a candle to Duke3D, and really, neither could any id game if only taken on single player basis, since they just blow at making single player games.

The nod to id in Halo (the Flood) is the point where I really started to dislike it.

Hey, I was contrarian long before it was cool :P While everyone was lauding Wolf3D and Doom I was jamming out on Ultima Underworld...

[HaemishM]

I rag on Doom3 because it looks boring as shit. It's a goddamn tech demo for an engine license. I'm sure the games made WITH the Doom3 license by someone other than Id could be good. But the one-dimensional gameplay of Doom3, coupled with immature, junior-high graphic design does nothing for me. The guys at Valve have proven they can create a more interesting single-player experience, it just takes them six years to do so.

[Megrim]

Sheesh, judging by the commentary, boy-oh-boy is there a lot of fps newbs in this thread =p

Would someone kindly provide me with an example of "mature" graphics design (and don't none of you say HL2. That game has no design whatsoever)?

And bitching about D3's boring gameplay? come on, the game isn't even out yet..

[Rasix]

Would someone kindly provide me with an example of "mature" graphics design (and don't none of you say HL2. That game has no design whatsoever)?

You can find mature graphics design all over the fucking place.  Max Payne, BG&E, Windwaker, and other games that were seeminly designed by people that realize style is something more than sticking spider legs on a fucking upside down human head.

Incase you're wonding what people are bitching about take a gander at this and this and this.  I mean common, those look like something out of some high school stoner goth's  sketch book.

As for how it plays? Who the fuck really knows.  I just don't think it will be able to do what it seemily wants to: scare me.  I could be suprised though, and I'd welcome it.  (Althought I seriously doubt my machine will run this beast)

[Sky]

Style directly from my jr high school sketchbook.

I mean common, those look like something out of some high school stoner goth's  sketch book.

HEY! I was never a goth.

Injecting some dislike of Safari browser just now, as it wasn't handling those planetcrap pages then crashed after I had typed out a reply :P Well, equal amounts dislike for planetcrap, too. Click here to continue on to fucking off, planetcrap/ign/etc.

Sheesh, judging by the commentary, boy-oh-boy is there a lot of fps newbs in this thread =p

This is why making judgements with a paucity of facts is stupid.

And bitching about D3's boring gameplay? come on, the game isn't even out yet.

But making judgements based on a long product line over a decade or so is a little more intelligent. The gameplay of id's products hasn't changed much since Doom (I'd say Wolf3D, but Doom did usher in the multplayer goodness), and I have no reason to think it will now. I may be wrong, but I'd wager I'm right.

[HaemishM]

Let's see... good mature graphic design in an FPS?

Ummm, Half-Life 1, Unreal, Unreal Tournament (in all flavors), Tribes, Nosferatu, Duke Nukem 3d, Max Payne, hell COUNTER-STRIKE for Christ's sake.

The design on all of these were consistent, and none of them reminded me of stuff a burned out wanna-be angsty goth in junior high might draw on his book covers. I've shit out better design than the monsters in Doom 3. They look silly. Very, very silly. Look at the face-huggers in HL1 and compare them to the Doom 3 spider with a jetpack.

I've played most of the big FPS's since Wolf3d came out. I'd hardly call myself an FPS newb.

[daveNYC]

Sheesh, judging by the commentary, boy-oh-boy is there a lot of fps newbs in this thread =p

Would someone kindly provide me with an example of "mature" graphics design (and don't none of you say HL2. That game has no design whatsoever)?

And bitching about D3's boring gameplay? come on, the game isn't even out yet..

Um... How about Deus Ex and System Shock.  Great design and great gameplay.

I've seen nothing that would indicate that Doom 3 is offering anything beyond collect three keys, kill bad guys, and exit the level gameplay.  Been there, done that, don't feel the need to buy a $400 video card to do it again.

[Megrim]

Examples of stuffs..

 K, i guess i should not have been a dumbarse and actually said "graphics design in the same genre". You know, scary shooty, futuristic type stuff.

Now yes i realise that people brought SS2 and Deus Ex up but i'm pretty sure those two fall into the rpg category much more than fps.
So yea, ok, i agree.. the heads with spider legs do look stupid, but i figure that they'll spend most of their time on the walls and/or ceiling so i guess the design makes sense.

Head-crabs in HL? Please..
I mean come on, that game's final boss was a giant testicle on four legs.

Haemish, what i don't understand (and please bear with me here), is this: i started reading WT.org because i could get valuable, intellegent input into  the world of mmorpgs. This was because the posters (for the most part) were experienced players and/or industry members who knew what they were talking about. As opposed to reading, say, the b/.net boards.

But in this case, you are critisizing (and completely disregarding) what i'm pretty sure will be a great game, on the basis or ARTISTIC TALENT? I mean.. come the fuck on.. -You'v- shat out better monster design? Yea, 'cause you know, you are rolling in the money like iD isn't.


As far as the screenshots go.. ok, the first one is the Lost Souls.. they were in Doom, Doom 2 and they will be in Doom 3. So what, nothing has changed. I mean, what do you expect from a flying skull that flies around and bites you till you make it explode?

And the zombie sargeant (sp?)? Ok.. maybe i'm stupid.. someone explain to me what's wrong with it.. ? Yea he looks kinda like Shwartznegger gone wrong, but meh, it's not like you are going to stand there admiring his sixpack. In all probability you will be trying to keep him from tearing your face off with his teeth.


What i'm trying to say is.. people are reading too much into this game. Like it's going to be some intellectual Dantesque trip through the far recesses of the human mind.

It's not supposed to be Silent Hill, or Resident Evil whatever, it's Doom. You kill shit, and try to not get eaten in the process. There is very little in the way of suspense, or vast dramatic scenes.
It's not introducing anything new? Yea, neither did Far Cry, neither did Duke 3D (the main selling point of which, as well as the "mature graphics design" were based on two of the lowest common denominators in human society: cops are pigs and women = sex), and neither have any fps that have come out since then. And believe you me, neither will HL2.

What i'm thinking is, your (collective) hatred of the lack of intellegence, creativity, and story-driven interaction in mmorpgs (where it is sorely needed) is carrying over into a genre where it isn't required for an enjoyable experience.

I don't play Counter-Strike because i care about the fate of the ancient aztec ruins on de_aztec. I play it so that i can improve my skills and lol0wn the newbs. Hence my liking of what i see in Doom 3; an immersive world that will test my skills.

 - Meg

p.s.
not spellchecked

[Margalis]

"It's not supposed to be Silent Hill, or Resident Evil whatever, it's Doom. You kill shit, and try to not get eaten in the process. There is very little in the way of suspense, or vast dramatic scenes."

That's not what Id is saying!

Maybe people have had enough of "kill shit" gameplay. How many FPS games have there been over the past few years? Most of them are endless variations on a theme, either "kill shit" or "enact some boring historical scenario."

It's not like this is a fresh blast from the past, like the rejuvenation of a genre that has been dead for a while. It's another FPS. It may be good, but it's hard to get excited about it.

Id is concentrating a lot on the single-player experience, but their single-player has never been that great, and it will be competing with HL2 which one would think would offer much better single-player.

FPS games really have not changed much in ten years. IMO it's hard to get excited about any of them.

[eldaec]

It's not supposed to be Silent Hill, or Resident Evil whatever, it's Doom. You kill shit, and try to not get eaten in the process. There is very little in the way of suspense, or vast dramatic scenes.

Which is why it will probably be derivative crap.

[HaemishM]

It's not supposed to be Silent Hill, or Resident Evil whatever, it's Doom. You kill shit, and try to not get eaten in the process. There is very little in the way of suspense, or vast dramatic scenes.

Which is why it will probably be derivative crap.

I love it when someone makes my point for me.

The gameplay will be Doom. Again. For the third time.

Since the gameplay won't be new, we can hope the graphics will be. Hmm, other than the shiney pixel shaders stuff, nope, not much new there either. And what is new sucks monkey nuts.

I imagine the mods, multiplayer and games using the license will be more interesting than this bowel movement of a tech demo that id will release to the hordes of screaming id fanbois who think Romero and Carmack should kiss and make up or something.

[Kairos]

Now yes i realise that people brought SS2 and Deus Ex up but i'm pretty sure those two fall into the rpg category much more than fps.

Oh, please. I didn't play Deus Ex, I admit, but if System Shock 2 is an RPG then you can make a case for pretty much any game short of Pac-Man being an RPG as well. That thing was FPS to the damned bone.

[Rodent]

I have confidence in ID.

Also, Half-life 2. Meh, didn't like the first one, and not the sequel is being delayed time and time again, and this is a company that has release games based on the q2 engine. Render me unimpressed.

[Alluvian]

Well, doom is getting delayed time and time again as well.  I remember reading an interview with one of carmack's flunkies implying the game would be OUT by LAST year's E3 that was about jan. - feb. last year.

Both games are WAY late by expectations.  Same with Halo 2.  HL2 is the only one that gave an official release date, but D3 has been guilty of hyping how close it is since well over a year ago.

[Sky]

FarCrytality!

[Joe]

not spellchecked

Two things. First, Don't ever post a garbled mess like that again.
Second, if you make a note of being too lazy to placate the editorial part of my brain, I'll find where you live and beat you to death with an unabridged dictionary.

Your fanboi is starting to stink. Try letting it air out by actually thinking about what you're defending.

If we look at Doom, Doom 2, and the Quake series, there's really very little variance between them. Assuming Doom 3 is going to do anything revolutionary is a bit naive, which is basically what's being said. All you're trying to tell everyone is Friday the 13th part 8 is REALLY going to be something special, despite the fact the other six sequels were just like the first movie, only with better effects. People who want novelty aren't going to bother. Fans of the series will love it. Easy as that.

To continue the Friday the 13th analogy, we should talk quality. Those movies were crap. They were dull, unimaginative crap, but they were entertaining. Doom was entertaining, but I wasn't exacatly glued to my seat for any of it. In fact, my eight-year-old brain was just really pissed about having to find keys when a rocket launcher should be able to blow apart metal doors. Doom 3 will suck in the same fashion, but it'll probably still have the same entertainment value as the previous two. Most of the people around here have become accustomed to a bit more, even out of FPS's. System Shock 2 (just because it has a skill system doesn't mean you're not SHOOTING THINGS IN THE FIRST PERSON, douche) along with Max Payne pretty much raised the bar for singleplayer, and the Half-Life and BF1942 mods pretty much made everyone giggle violently at the Q3 engine.

Call me a newbie if you want, but I don't think I'm alone in not wanting to bother with Doom 3 (or HL2) until a few mods usurp the CS and TFC scene.

[Sky]

Damn Joe just made me feel old. When I was 8 I was playing Adventure (aka Zork on mainframe aka Colossal Cave)...fetch my damn walker!

Anyway, whether it's a good dame or not, id's certainly ready to bleed their fanbois. Bring your piggy bank, Doom3 is listed at $55 on ebgames.com.

linky

edit: this line is kinda funny, though:

The date and price listed are estimates only and are subject to change. You will not be charged more than the listed price.

[Megrim]

Dear angry manchild,

Two things. First, Don't ever post a garbled mess like that again.
Second, if you make a note of being too lazy to placate the editorial part of my brain, I'll find where you live and beat you to death with an unabridged dictionary.

Your fanboi is starting to stink. Try letting it air out by actually thinking about what you're defending.

You know what? Fuck you. Nyah nyah boo-boo!



Allright, now that we'v settled it like real adults:

Dude, in your haste to show some of that trademark haet you missed the point entirely. I don't particularly care now if the game is good or bad. Yes, i have it on pre order, and if i like it i will keep it. If i don't, i will return it and get my money back. No harm done.

What i was saying, is that totally tearing a game apart because you did not like it's visual/artistic presentation it stupid at best. Furthermore, citing that the predecessors were "bland" is stupid. Why are you playing fps in the first place? Especially single-player ones. I sure as hell don't play them for a good story. I read books for that kind of thing.

Yea, there isn't much variance between D, D2, the Quake series, etc.. But what are the key, revolutionary differences between System Shock, and SS2? Deus Ex and DE2 (apart from the second one sucking)? NOLF/NOLF2, the Unreal series and just about every single fps game made EVER? Do i even need to mention the vaunted Battlefield shittrain?

Just because iD has made more similar games than most companies doesen't mean they are somehow the only ones making boring (boring being a veeery relative term in this case) games. What is your logic here?
Because the only point i can see you making is that "Doom 3 will be crap based on past evidence". Ok, and the sky is blue. However like Rodent said, i have faith in iD. Or rather, i have more faith in them than any OTHER fps developer.


You claim lack of innovation, lack of fresh gameplay blah, blah, blah.. Well what would you suggest?
Yes, this is a serious question.
What feature(s) would you as a designer of the next innovative fps put in, to revolutionise gameplay?

Also,

System Shock 2 (just because it has a skill system doesn't mean you're not SHOOTING THINGS IN THE FIRST PERSON, douche) along with Max Payne pretty much raised the bar for singleplayer, and the Half-Life and BF1942 mods pretty much made everyone giggle violently at the Q3 engine.

Sooo.. what does that make Morrowind? And could you elaborate on the "made everyone giggle" thing?

 - Meg

[schild]

Megrim, you just DON'T GET IT.

Compared to EVERY single FPS on the market, Doom is the most base of them all. It is literally, find item, shoot, find item, shoot, and then kill a boss. The levels were never inspired, the weapons are just sorta meh, and the bad guys from hell - well, it's been done 1,000x since Doom 2 and it does NOT need to be done again.

iD should have made a new game, with a new license (or their own original concept) and not gone back to the Doom name. iD is legendary and can afford to branch out, and yes, it's ok to have faith in iD. But, comeon - it takes a real team, of jackasses to not make anything as involving as a Doom game. From what they've said they haven't brought anything new to the table in this go'round, and I don't suspect they will.

Doom 3 will most likely be rehashed Doom with really purty graphics and be a memory WHORE. Other than that? Nada.

The question isn't "why shouldn't I play it?" The question is "why should I play it?" So why don't you tell us why we should play it - your faith in iD to make a good FPS is not a reason. Guns that shoot spiders is a reason.

One last thing:

Allright, now that we'v settled it like real adults:

You've done this a couple times. "'v" IS NOT THE WAY TO FINISH A CONTRACTION, ASSHOLE. There's a goddamn 'e' after it. Joe is absolutely right though, learn how to spell, alright? Good.

EDIT: BBCode is hard.

[Megrim]

Dammit, i hate to SB a little here but,

Compared to EVERY single FPS on the market, Doom is the most base of them all. It is literally, find item, shoot, find item, shoot, and then kill a boss. The levels were never inspired, the weapons are just sorta meh, and the bad guys from hell - well, it's been done 1,000x since Doom 2 and it does NOT need to be done again.

Don't you think it's a little unfair (i know what you mean, bear with me, i'll get to it) to compare Doom with all the other fps currently on the market? Since everything has basically been a rehash of the game. Down to the (now) meh weapons (oh come on, the BFG) and the uninspired level design.
Although i'll have to run the risk of having "fanboi" flung in my face by Joe again, and claim that Doom2 had some of the best fucking levels ever made, in two ways. Some were just plain brutal (and in all honesty i've yet to play a game where the designers have dared to put the player under so much pressure), and some were really original designs in terms of how they used what they could work with.

But, since we are talking about Doom3 and how it compares to what is currently on the market, i have a question:

My impression (and please feel free to call me misguided) is that iD have actually kept a pretty tight wrap on the information avalable on the game. They have demo'ed some things, whored their "shiny" graphics engine and released screenies of some of the old monsters (and those unfortunate spiders), but i've not seen any solid indication of how the game is actually going to play. By this i mean some of the most basic things, like the pacing, ammo/item loads, difference between difficulty levels, roughly how many levels we should expect, etc, etc..
Sure, them not saying anything about any new features isn't indicative of them actually having anything new, but it certainly does not indicate the opposite.

Have i missed all this somewhere along the way? Where is all this highly opinionated hatred coming from. I mean shit, what games do you like?

The question isn't "why shouldn't I play it?" The question is "why should I play it?" So why don't you tell us why we should play it - your faith in iD to make a good FPS is not a reason. Guns that shoot spiders is a reason.

I am not telling you anything. I'm asking that you don't jade yourself into a dark little corner. Seriously, go d/l Doom2 from anywhere and play it through again (preferably on the hardest setting). Then come back and tell me that it's not fun.

For me, personally, it has that certain bit of magic that brings me back to XCom, Starcraft, Counterstrike & Diablo. If it does not mean anything to you then so be it.
But tell me you know more about what Doom3 will be like than anyone else, and i'll believe you. And not that you can form a hypothesis and parade it as truth.



Furthermore, ease off on the grammar nazi bullshit. We've all been there, done that. And not a single one of us is an Oxford erudite.

 - Meg

[Kairos]

No one's giving you shit for screwing up on little-known grammatical rules (like or vs. nor). They're giving you shit for fucking up contractions. This is the sort of thing you learn how to use in third grade, for god's sake. If English weren't your first language, that'd be fine, but somehow I seriously doubt that this is the case. Just put some fucking effort into your typing and you'll look considerably more intelligent.

[schild]

Kairos, your avatar makes that entire post so much funnier.

[Sky]

So, yeah, let's throw out everything we've learned in the past and believe in a company that's shown a trend going back over a decade is suddenly going to release something entirely different, with no evidence either way. Historical trends > no evidence, thus the position of everyone else in this thread but you.