10/25/05 - Civilization IV (PC)

[Merusk]

First Striking-specced Gunships with a double jet bombing cost me a stack of 5 Modern Armor.. that was a harsh lesson to learn. "Send the armor out with a mech inf."

So, yah, conquest victories need to happen before Armor comes into play or else it's just fucking expensive.

My biggest gripe is that you can't sell shit off in the cities.  I had built a nuke plant because I didn't have hydro plants yet. NBD, I figured, they never REALLY go thermal.  HAHAHA.. .WRONG!   Had to reload a 1945 save because Thermopalye became a crater in 1948, taking it from a 16 city to a 9.  Ow.   When I reloaded I decided to sell-off the nuke plant, but nooooo... can't do that.  Crap.

[sinij]

I hate how Civ4 handles modern warfare. Regardless of what happens EVERYONE gets pillaged back to stone age. There are also way too many units and AI loves sending them on suicide pillage raids that works better than capturing cities. Nukes also not that powerful - one game I dropped 5 ICBMs each on every single city of my enemy and not only nuclear winter did not started but cities and most military units stood unaffected. About only useful thing ICBMS do is pillage surrounding area.... To me it feels like entire game revolves around pillaging.

Open borders are annoying - it is very basic agreement that will result in your borders attacked from all directions from nutral territories unles you live on an island. You have to garrison large number of troops abroad just to have any chance of stopping pillaging.

Another problem - if you happen to not have uranium, oil or aluminum you are fucked. AI will not give it to you or will charge you outrageous price, like 30% of your total nations income per turn.

[Shockeye]

A Note from Firaxis Concerning the Civilization IV Patch
November 16, 2005

Hello everyone!
I've heard from many of you via the Firaxis website Contact Us form (many thanks for all the dxdiag files and savegames) and wanted to say thanks for all the feedback and detailed bug reports that were sent up.

I just wanted to let everyone know that as of Monday afternoon, the patch was sent to 2K for final testing, so barring any problems in QA, we will be releasing it shortly.

Some of the highlights include multiple AI improvements and tweaks, worker behavior tweaks, MANY game play improvements (ex Animal Husbandry reveals horses), promotion tweaks, a softer pillage sound (requested by many, many people), fixed diplomatic exploits (gold for gold, peace treaty exploit), multiplayer tweaks (Hot seat, Lobby, etc.), memory, caching and performance improvements, etc. There were also a number of video card specific fixes.

To those of you having problems, thanks for your patience. Our guys were working around the clock with your detailed feedback to produce this patch. For those of you having no problems, it's only going to get better. =)

Dennis Shirk
Firaxis Games

[Sky]

Still haven't heard from tech support about my resolution problems. I contacted them 11/8 and got a form "We're too busy to reply to you, thanks for the money" reply.

[Raging Turtle]

So... anyone found any good mods?  :-D

I've been looking around for a mod that lets you select the color of your civ. No luck yet.  Just one of those little things that bugs me. 

[Stormwaltz]

I think people are still digesting the new systems. The only mods I've heard of are one that allows you to demolish city improvements, and new map graphics using NASA satellite imagery.

[Merusk]

Here's a direct link to the CivFanatacs Mod Forums.   There's a very interesting-looking "Realistic Religions" mod that's in there.  Here's a quote just to show what they've done (other than renaming "Missionaries" to something more appropriate for each religion.)

Judaism
Disadvantages: No benefit from Pigs, Crabs, and Clams: Jewish Temples produce -1 health for each of these resources (since access to these things produces +1 health, this means the Temple merely "cancels out" the food benefits of the resources; it does not punish the player for having them and hence there is no need to pillage them if you start building Jewish Temples). Cannot build Jewish Missionaries (it's just not a missionary faith).
Advantages: (unleavened) Wheat, (kosher) Cows, and (gefilte) Fish produce an extra health in cities with Jewish Temples. Much faster rate of spread (There may not be missionaries, but there is a diaspora, and this helps simulate that.) Spread rate = 133 instead of 100, which is really quite a bump. Post if it seems to spread out of control (or if it seems to not spread quickly enough, given the lack of missionaries); I'm actively tweaking this value.

[Murgos]

I think people are still digesting the new systems. The only mods I've heard of are one that allows you to demolish city improvements, and new map graphics using NASA satellite imagery.

Very cool.

[Pococurante]

Indeed, though it reminds me why I hate to play Earth maps in Civ - Earth continents are just too small.  Britain barely supports a moderate sized city and like the graphic showed Florida can barely hold a fort.

[Merusk]

Seems that A patch is out.

Update Civilization IV to version 1.09 with this patch.

Changes:

    * Increased cost of Apollo Program.
    * Increased SS parts cost.
    * Animal Husbandry reveals Horses.
    * Tweaked Rifling, Chemistry, Steel, and Railroad tech costs.
    * Increased late-game tech costs.
    * Can now add two specialists in size 1 city with Mercantilism.
    * Final score is now modified by difficulty level.
    * Speed up load times.
    * Global performance enhancements.

Added:

    * Include WB map size in the description field.
    * Save login name.
    * Added password encryption.
    * Added regenerate Map Button to World builder Map Mode.
    * Checkbox for using low resolution textures.
    * More logging for init failure.
    * Minspec / video memory checking.
    * Added ability to change to and from fullscreen while in-game.
    * Holding "shift" during startup will clean out the cache.
    * Improved bink playback, added ini options.

Fixes:

    * ATI issue Failed to Init Renderer Fixed.
    * Multiplayer Lobby list jump problem and lobby crash fixed.
    * Fixed war weariness calculation bug.
    * Units maintain their name when upgraded.
    * Fixed Gold-for-Gold diplo exploit.
    * Fixed no research choice overflow exploit.
    * Fix for voice initialization crash.
    * Fix addressing takeover AI and retirement OOS.
    * Fixed issue with diplomacy text being always used in its first form in the translator.
    * Popups, screens, and diplomacy properly cleared when exiting from main menu.
    * Games protected by admin passwords (only) cannot be loaded if the version is different from the one that created the save.
    * Fixed bug where player could not offer any deal to other human in PBEM/Hotseat.
    * Sorting by date on domestic advisor now works.
    * Fixed bug where settlers could not move if the strategy layer was selected.
    * Fixed Ironworks.
    * Fixed AI units not obeying open borders rules on declaration of war.
    * Fixed bug that prevent placing of units in world-builder.
    * Fixed bug that prevented gifting of units to a human player.
    * Stack attack infinite loop fixed.
    * Civic screen update fix (wasn’t showing the right maintenance and anarchy values).
    * ctrl-g crash fix, optimized city bar art.
    * Fixed right-click menu crash.
    * Intro movie crashing problems.

I won't get a chance to patch & play today though.  Someone who does (or has) let us know how it works out.

[stray]

Here's something strange that I found out...

If you like this game, then you probably have had that intro song stuck in your head a few times right?

It's in Swahili, here are the lyrics:

Baba yetu yetu, uliye
Mbinguni yetu yetu, amina!
Baba yetu yetu, uliye
Jina lako litukuzwe.

Utupe leo chakula chetu
Tunachohitaji utusamehe
Makosa yetu, hey!
Kama nasi tunavyowasamehe
Waliotukosea usitutie
Katika majaribu, lakini
Utuokoe, na yule, milelea milele!

Ufalme wako ufike utakalo
Lifanyike duniani kama mbinguni. (Amina)

Utupe leo chakula chetu
Tunachohitaji utusamehe
Makosa yetu, hey!
Kama nasi tunavyowasamehe
Waliotukosea usitutie
Katika majaribu, lakini
Utuokoe, na yule, simama mwehu

Baba yetu yetu uliye
Jina lako litukuzwe.


English translation:


Our Father, who art
in Heaven. Amen!
Our Father,
Hallowed be thy name.

Give us this day our daily bread,
Forgive us of
our trespasses
As we forgive others
Who tresspass against us
Lead us not into temptation, but
deiver us from Evil, and you are forever and ever!

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done
On Earth as it is in Heaven. (Amen)

Give us this day our daily bread,
Forgive us of
our trespasses
As we forgive others
Who tresspass against us
Lead us not into temptation, but
deiver us from Evil, and you wake the dead

Our Father, who art
Hallowed be thy name.


Umm...That's the Lord's Prayer. I just find it strange that Sid would use something so specifically "Christian" in a mass market product. Does this irritate anyone (I'm just asking)?

I doubt the motivation behind Civ is "Christian"...It's more of an anthropological thing, what with the Taoist, Buddhist, and various politcal/philosophical passages as well. It's just strange that Sid has no qualms about opening up the game with that instead of something more neutral (all the while having Nimoy read from book of Genesis heh).

[schild]

Hi, this is Civilization. You're playing God.

If anything the game is sacrilege. Don't read into it too much, your brain might go POIT.

[stray]

Hi, this is Civilization. You're playing God.

If anything the game is sacrilege. Don't read into it too much, your brain might go POIT.

I just edited while you posted. Check my post out again.

I'm not reading too much into it myself. I just wonder if it offends anyone. Some people get pissed at this stuff. God game or not.

[Merusk]

The Lord's Prayer is Jewish as well as Christian, is it not?

Either way it's in Swahili, so the vast majority of folks neither know or care. If anything, people are more likely to be offended by calling the Chistian and Islamic structures Temples(Jewish) rather than Mosques and Churches. 

[stray]

The Lord's Prayer is Jewish as well as Christian, is it not?

Either way it's in Swahili, so the vast majority of folks neither know or care. If anything, people are more likely to be offended by calling the Chistian and Islamic structures Temples(Jewish) rather than Mosques and Churches. 

Well, if we're splitting hairs, yeah, the Lord's Prayer is "Jewish". It's just not "Rabbinically" Jewish.

In other words, it was a prayer first said by Yeshua of Natzeret, a peasant in first century Palestine, who was Jewish. He's also known as Jesus of Nazareth, so it actually makes it Christian. If one were to take the Toledot Yeshu into account though, it would mean that he was decidely not Jewish.

Short answer: It's Christian

Spock is a Jew though, so it's all good.

Anywho....I was naive for not realizing where this conversation would go. I was just curious about what people think when they see veiled religious references in popular art and products. Some people get pissed, some don't I guess. And it probably wasn't appropriate to ask anyways.

It's a good song though.

[Yoru]

If I'm remembering the audio CD that came with the special edition right (don't have it in front of me right now), the song was composed by Jeff Briggs, so Sid might not've been involved in the idea to use the prayer. And you've got to admit it's pretty catchy without being overtly religious (unless you speak Swahili or go look up a translation), which probably led to it being used as the main title theme.

[WayAbvPar]

Umm...That's the Lord's Prayer. I just find it strange that Sid would use something so specifically "Christian" in a mass market product. Does this irritate anyone (I'm just asking)?

I am usually the first one to blast anyone for overtly religious content, but this doesn't bother me. The song is pretty cool, and the Lord's Prayer is very well known- I think it is kind of cool that they 'snuck' it in. There is also a game- related tangent- any culture can research, found, or convert to any religion, so I see this as kind of a nod to that.

As for the patch- I am looking forward to seeing the changes- I have been looking for a reason to fire up another game. I wonder if the memory leak is covered under " Global performance enhancements"?

[Bunk]

Well, after the patch, and playing at medium graphics with everything turned off in the background - game still likes to grind to a halt at random on me. That, and the occasional Magical Rainbow World graphic glitch.

Its a damn great game when I can play it.

[Sky]

    * Improved bink playback, added ini options.

I wonder what ini options. Specifically, the ability to specify a vertical resolution under 768 would be nice, so I can use the UI along the bottom. I'd like to play the game properly some day. Still haven't heard from Firaxis, and you've seen my thread about Take-Two (Tokes?).

Blah.

[Nazrat]

I found a post on Apolyton that outlined some ini changes that enabled me to actually play a game without CTD or any hangups. 

I will try to find the post and/or the changes that I made to the ini to make it run.

[WayAbvPar]

I was directed to a post here about a possible mem leak fix. I will have to check it out this week.

[Merusk]

I just installed that mem fix.  The difference is astounding, and I didn't even turn-down any of my settings like its author initially recommended.  The only thing is you can't run X-fire with the current version of his patch. (Something he says he's working on fixing.)

[Shockeye]

Firaxis poll for future Civs and Civ IV additions.

[WayAbvPar]

Cool- thanks for the link. My rule change suggestion was to impose some sort of diplomatic penalty for allowing a civ to attack another civ by traveling through your civ's territory. Global leaders should take note of this tacit alliance and react accordingly.

[Sky]

Anyone want to guess what my suggestion was? Winner gets an iPod*!


*Don't be stupid, stupid.

[WayAbvPar]

I would rather win a wide screen tv so I could play with widescreen support 

[tazelbain]

Anyone want to guess what my suggestion was? Winner gets an iPod*!


*Don't be stupid, stupid.

Add Elron as the leader of the Elven nation, with a special archer unit that can surf on shields?