10/25/05 - Civilization IV (PC)

[MrHat]

So, who's setting up our destined-to-failure Giant MotherFucking Civ 4 Battle.

[stray]

So, who's setting up our destined-to-failure Giant MotherFucking Civ 4 Battle.

Whenever it happens, I'm in (and won't quit  ).

[schild]

I'll be back saturday, and then gone from Tuesday til Wed night, but if there is such a thing (haven't played the game yet), I'd like in - as would one of my roommates.

[dusematic]

I want in.

[Azazel]

So what (if any) multiplayer features/options are there? Or are they pulling the same bullshit they did with Civ 3 and selling the MP-enabler as an "expansion"...?

[Sky]

http://www.kalikokottage.com/civ3/sullla/civ4intro.html

This guy, who worked on Civ4 says:

"And for those people who were whining about the maps being smaller in Civ4: try running a Huge Terra map. The thing is gigantic; it's significantly larger than a Civ3 Huge map. Don't think we weren't paying attention to you. "

So I started a normal game, on Terra (because it said it was HUGE) and selected Huge size. Played through for a while, and in my long standing tradition, I retired from my first game before going to bed. When I saw the extent of the hugest map option I could create...well, that's not my definition of huge.

That's me calling bullshit for the subtlety-challenged.

[El Gallo]

I read on Apolyton that the reason people think that huge maps are not huge enough is that unlike previous civs (where you could see the whole, blacked-out world from turn one) your visible map gradually expands as the game goes on.

[Merusk]

The Huge Terras are definatly larger than Civ3, Sky.  I'm playing one right now and I barely have 1/4 of the globe discovered by 1315. (and oddly I was in Medieval time period by 30bc).    I'll get a tile count sometime after I get a ship that won't sink in the ocean. (another few turns).  It does FEEL smaller, though.  I blame that on the scale of the units and the graphics overall.  Soom out to the Civ1 camera view (one click before you see clouds and the info bar dissapears) and you'll see how much bigger the map is, though.  (Zoom out to globe view and you can also see how little of the whole world you actually are seeing.)


Disclaimer: The following is based on the "chieftan" setting.  My first game was on the default "noble" and I got my ass kicked before 100AD.  I figured I'd better learn the nuances before trying again.

Things I like after the first 8 hours:

* All the city features are visible on the city as they're built. Very cool seeing the Temple of Solomon, The Colossus and the Hanging Gardens as I peer at Delhi.
* OOOh, shiny.  The leaders are all great-looking and have some personality rather than just staring at you.  The overland map is great as are the unit models.
* Aquaducts stretch from the city to the closest mountain or fresh water source.
* The Religion system is very cool. (Though Possibly a little overpowered since it's new and hasn't been tweaked/ refined enough.)
* The new interface Roxorz.  Popups for exactly what each building does, on-screen score so you can keep track of who to dis and who to please as they come begging (or demanding) to you, A lot of the old things you had to go digging through other screens for happen right in the first one or two layers.
* No more rightclick to find out what each square produces or what that special is.  Mouseover and it get the info in the lower left.
* You instantly know when your city is "sick" and you need to focus on health/ sanitation.  A lovely green smog-like haze surrounds it.
* All the little terrain upgrades are kick-ass.  Windmills, Fishing Boats, Cottages/ Villages/ Hamlets, Plantations and more.  And they all have special effects so it makes for a more thought-provoking game than the old "Irrigate/ Road/ Railroad and move on" when managing your workers.
* The Music is fabulous.  I haven't popped-in the CD I got yet, but I really dig all of it. They did a fantastic job here.


Things I dislike:
* Oh dear lord, the load times.  No more "oops I fucked that up, i'll just reload the autosave real quick.."   My system's a 3-year-old p4, 2.5 ghz and it takes about 3-5 mins to load-up a savegame.
* Indians are overpowered as a race.  They start-out with Mysticism which means they can found most of the religions very quickly.  I've founded everything but Bhuddism (and I missed that only because I went for pottery.)  I know it's not just me, because the Indians in the first game I played and abandoned did the same thing.  This means I get a lot of gold as I build specials with great citizens, and really don't care if anyone else is a different religion than I am.  After all, I get the gold regardless because I founded the religion.
* Crashes.  Sometimes I'll get something kinda glitchy during a load and the game won't load and locks-up my machine.  Not sure if it's me or the game.  I've also had a few times where I tried to go into the Military Advisor and the game locked-up.  Alt-tabbing also does a number, so I've loaded up the laptop to post this.
* Build time seem slower.  Maybe it's just me and my love for wonders but though my cities are hitting 12 and 14 in size, I still have some basics like walls and Coloseums to build. This is on one of the easier setting where build-times are actualy sped-up.  Perhaps I'm just not building enough production.
* Having to re-train myself from the 'expand, expand, expand' mode and take reassess things again.  It's feeling a lot more like Civ2, though, in that I can't ignore my military like I had been in 3.  Not really a dislike as much as a, "wtf I'm a noob again," feeling.

In all it's fantastic, and really feels great. I can tell I'm going to enjoy this more than 2 or 3.

[Sky]

I read on Apolyton that the reason people think that huge maps are not huge enough is that unlike previous civs (where you could see the whole, blacked-out world from turn one) your visible map gradually expands as the game goes on.

I was gauging it by how big the one continent I had explored was when compared to the full map that gets shown when you retire. I know (and like) that you can't tell during the game until the world has been circumnavigated - very cool. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll withdraw that gripe until I've fully played the huge terra map game I started.

But the camera and resolution are still stuck in my craw in a big way.

[MrHat]

I was really really enjoying it up until about 1925AD, when the fucking Mongolians attacked me with horse archers and knights and wtfpwned my marines, tanks, and helicopters.

[Merusk]

Huge Terran Map: 86 Turns to Circumnavigate and and 68 turns high with a Caravel. (3 spaces a turn) So 258 tiles wide, by 204 tiles high.   For a total of 52,632 total tiles.  That's pretty damn big, but I haven't loaded-up civs 3 yet to see how big its largest map was.

[Sairon]

Still not big enough IMO, should be double that size atleast. Doesn't take many turns before all the land is populated with cities.

[Merusk]

Still not big enough IMO, should be double that size atleast. Doesn't take many turns before all the land is populated with cities.

The reason that's happengin is on the "Terran" setting, there's 2 or so large landmasses.  Everyone starts on one and you have to rush to get to the other one.  So if you've got 11+ civs when you start up a game, the land will disappear very quickly.   ( I just discovered the other landmass.. and to my surprise barbarians build/ maintain cities like like good ol' Civ1. Sweet.)

[stray]

Still not big enough IMO, should be double that size atleast. Doesn't take many turns before all the land is populated with cities.

You've played it? No way will it be all be populated. Just no way.

Or maybe you should define "many turns".

[Sairon]

Still not big enough IMO, should be double that size atleast. Doesn't take many turns before all the land is populated with cities.

You've played it? No way will it be all be populated. Just no way.

Or maybe you should define "many turns".

20 minutes of play or so with 6 players on the largest terrain with the lowest water level possible.

[Hoax]

So can you play versus other humans easily out of the box?  If so I will consider the purchase.  I'd love to play a all human game of Civ even if it took forever and a day to finish.

[stray]

Still not big enough IMO, should be double that size atleast. Doesn't take many turns before all the land is populated with cities.

You've played it? No way will it be all be populated. Just no way.

Or maybe you should define "many turns".

20 minutes of play or so with 6 players on the largest terrain with the lowest water level possible.

And after 20 minutes, the map was filled up even in it's second stage/zoomed out state? If so, that's pretty amazing (maybe not unbelievable, but amazing). I didn't even know the map would let you see how big it is after only 20 minutes.

[Merusk]

So can you play versus other humans easily out of the box?  If so I will consider the purchase.  I'd love to play a all human game of Civ even if it took forever and a day to finish.

Yes.  Lan, Internet (via Gamespy), Direct IP, Hot Seat, or By-Mail.   Tho Multi-player Civ always dies in the first two days, so playing a small world with an advanced start makes more sense than staring from 4K B.C.

[stray]

Tho Multi-player Civ always dies in the first two days, so playing a small world with an advanced start makes more sense than staring from 4K B.C.

I'd prefer that we go Epic. I may quit a lot of games, but I'd stick with this at least.

[Toast]

Waah waah waah. The maps are too small. Isn't there a world editor also?

[stray]

Waah waah waah. The maps are too small. Isn't there a world editor also?

Wait, is that a complaint, or are you mocking the others?

[Sairon]

Just ran a Play Now game instead of custom as warchief. They expanded way slower than on custom it seemed, dunno if it was because I played on warchief instead of noble though.

[dusematic]

This game is awesome, do you people even like video games?  Also, is there a way to turn off wonder movies?  The Colossus one always crashes my computer.  It's pissing me off.  I need complete cultural domination to feel good about myself as a person.

[stray]

This game is awesome

Yeah it is. Best fun I've had with my PC in a long time. I've been playing every chance I can get.

Also, is there a way to turn off wonder movies?  The Colossus one always crashes my computer.  It's pissing me off.  I need complete cultural domination to feel good about myself as a person.

I mentioned above that I'm getting choppy sound with the videos, but I did crash once on the Oracle video. Lucky that there's an autosave though -- it worked on the second try.

I've been doing the Cultural domination thing too (Rock N Roll for the win!), but I'm not having much luck with that strategy with Noble difficulty or higher.

[stray]

In other news, there's nothing worse than seeing Barbarians raze one of your cities right after you just set it up.

[Merusk]

In other news, there's nothing worse than seeing Barbarians raze one of your cities right after you just set it up.

Yeah, I'm having a BIG problem getting set-up on the second continent.  All the barbarian cities are size 5 or higher and the units all, somehow, have 2 upgrades.  Considering that I can only move 3 units at a time it's going to be damned expensive and time consuming to even attempt to take-over one of them.  Any city I build gets auto-detected and the barbarian hordes rush in with 6-10 guys and completly overrun me.  Very frustrating.

[dusematic]

Why are you guys having such a problem with Noble difficulty?  I started with that and kicked ass.  Remember, in any war, catapults are essential in this game.  Also, if you want to kick ass culturally, pick a Philosphical ruler, they get +100% to Great People.  Then just make sure to build wonderes that increase the likelihood of getting Great People, my first game on Noble I had like +300% after awhile and I was popping out Great Artists like clockwork.  I detonated two in the same city and in the next 20 turns or so 5 enemy cities fell under my sway. 


You guys probably already knew that stuff, but I see a few mentions of problem with Noble on here.  Also, if you want a really huge map, pick pangea, with low sea level.  If you aren't satisfied with how big and long that is on Epic speed, then just play two games in a row.  That should keep you at your computer all day.

[stray]

It's just that Noble requires me to be more balanced than I'm used to. Plus, my city placement hasn't exactly been optimal up to this point (I'm rethinking atm though heh).

I didn't read the manual until last night....Didn't realize how much of a difference some of these attributes can make. Too bad one can't have "Industrious/Philosophical" though --- That'd be perfect.

[MrHat]

Anyone able to run this in windowed mode?

[schild]

Got it installed, haven't gotten a chance to play though. Too enthralled with Soul Calibur 3 and RE4 for the PS2. :P

[Big Gulp]

Loving the game, easily the best since Civ II.  In very sore need of a patch, though.  I've noticed the odd boot to the desktop, and even just had it give me a hard reboot.  Also noticed that if you exit the game, then relaunch it later that you enter slideshow land.  The only fix seems to be rebooting your box.  This seems to get worse when you play on a huge map towards the end and you're sending godawful amounts of units around.

I know I don't have the most current specs (1.8 Ghz, FX5200 card), but you'd think that the 2 GB of RAM would at least provide a buffer from this kind of crap.

[dusematic]

I was thinking that because my system crashes on the Colossus wonder every time there was something wrong with the CD.  I've since seen crashes on other wonder movies and for other reasons.  My computer sucks too, but the wonder movies aren't exactly Doom III.

What's going on in good computer land?  Are you people dealing with the same shit?

[Sairon]

The first couple of sessions I did crash a couple of times on various places, but not anything repetetive. I don't really have a physical CD while playing.

I have to say that I got bored pretty fast of this game, sadly. I can't argue that it isn't a great game though, but it's not THAT diffrent from its predecessors, which is the reason I ultimately got bored after the second day of fairly hardcore playing.

[stray]

I was thinking that because my system crashes on the Colossus wonder every time there was something wrong with the CD.  I've since seen crashes on other wonder movies and for other reasons.  My computer sucks too, but the wonder movies aren't exactly Doom III.

What's going on in good computer land?  Are you people dealing with the same shit?

My computer isn't bad. GeForce 6600, mediocre cpu, 1.5 gb of ram. And like I said before, same video problems as you.

I had the slideshow problem BG mentioned too, but only once. I didn't see it as a bug though. I had already been playing for hours, and the area where my cities were built were surrounded by several other civilizations. Structures were everywhere.

Things were going fine until I made a new settler (which popped up the little resource icons over every visible tile) -- Then my computer got bogged down. After relaunching the game though, everything was fine.

[MrHat]

Sairon, ya, it gets boring.

But that's not a problem. IMO you shouldn't be playing game after game after game of this.  Should be something you launch up, play through a civilization, then leave alone for a while.