Guild Wars Trial Opens Early

[Daeven]

Just out of curiousity, since you seem so hellbent against WoW. Are you in the beta? Do you know anything about the game?

Congratulations. That is your eleventy-bajillionth Appeal To Authority concerning WoW.

***PLONK***

[Riggswolfe]

I'll come visit you in WoW when it's released, Riggs.  I will, however, hold you responsible if my gaming experience is anything less than perfect.

Nah, play Open Beta and make sure it's to your liking first. That way if you don't like it you can't blame me for losing money, only wasting some of your time.

[Riggswolfe]

Congratulations. That is your eleventy-bajillionth Appeal To Authority concerning WoW.

***PLONK***

No actually it is my elventy-bajillionth attempt to discover if the WoW negativity is based on facts or just the latest inthing in certain gamer circles which is "choose some company to randomly hate so you can distance yourself from those that enjoy said company" you stupid Oedipus.

Of course it could also just be based on constipation.

I do however understand Schild's general worry about Battle.net kiddies.

Edit: BTW, I never made an appeal to authority. I never claimed to be an authority on WoW. I asked if people making claims about its gameplay had any experience with said gameplay or if they were just pulling these opinions out of an orifice. (Your choice which). So please, next time you attempt to appear intelligent by using phrases from logic theory, make sure you know what the fuck you're talking about. Otherwhise you just look like an asshole.

Have a good day.

[Krakrok]

"choose some company to randomly hate so you can distance yourself from those that enjoy said company"

There is a very good reason not to like Vivendi Universal (aka Blizzard).

---

As for Guild Wars, previously I said that it was allowing me to tweak my stats however I wanted. I don't know if there is a max number of times you can change your stats on a character or if they patched it so you couldn't tweak your stats freely anymore but I found that my stats are locked in now.

[Sky]

just the latest inthing in certain gamer circles which is "choose some company to randomly hate so you can distance yourself from those that enjoy said company"

I think the latest inthing is using this idea of "hating games/companies is the latest inthing". Most people have reasons why they don't like certain games and/or companies, and folks might get a little better enlightenment on topics if they ask 'why' instead of dismissing it as irrelevent, when in most cases it isn't.

[Margalis]

WoW's combat is so fucking exciting that you can log it and relive it! It's so deep and complex that they expect players to be unable to comprehend what is happening during combat and so give their customers this extraordinary feature that will allow them to read what happened while they were in combat during their rest period!

This is a pretty common feature request from a lot of people. Shut up, you look stupid.

Tons of people always say they can't live without the text box because they want to analyze what different skills armors and such are doing. They like to tweak. Blizzard responds in this request and you cry...give me a break.

If you don't like the log...don't read it. Wow. That's Rocket Science and Brain Surgery rolled into one!
---

You guys complain about the battle.net kiddies, but honestly the WoW detractors are pretty embarrassing as well for the most part. There *are* legitimate gripes, but 90% of the gripes expressed on this forum are just stupid blather. Oh no, you can optionally read a log! The sky is falling! What next, maybe it will ship with an "instruction manual" that you can optionally "read" for "information?"

[Kenrick]

WoW rulezzzz!!! I r goinig to bi it teh dey it cum out!






This post is to replace the post deleted by admin.

[Sky]

There *are* legitimate gripes, but 90% of the gripes expressed on this forum are just stupid blather.

And 100% of these statistics smell as if just pulled from thy anus :)

[Foix]

There *are* legitimate gripes, but 90% of the gripes expressed on this forum are just stupid blather.

I agree. Don't plan on playing WoW myself, as it's looking like a standard-issue MMORPG and I've sworn them off until the next round of innovation comes along--sticking with MUDs and single-player RPGs until then. But it seems like an awful lot of people are searching for anything to complain about regarding WoW, whether because they dislike Blizzard or just want to carry on the tradition of ripping on popular games (except CoH, of course).

There's nothing wrong with speculating on a game's possible virtues and flaws, but unless you have firsthand experience with it, saying 'This game is going to [suck/rule] because of x, y and z' is just stupid. Hell, provided Blizzard has an open beta phase, I'm willing to give WoW a chance to impress me even though I don't expect it to do so.

[cevik]

I agree. Don't plan on playing WoW myself, as it's looking like a standard-issue MMORPG and I've sworn them off until the next round of innovation comes along

...

There's nothing wrong with speculating on a game's possible virtues and flaws, but unless you have firsthand experience with it, saying 'This game is going to [suck/rule] because of x, y and z' is just stupid. Hell, provided Blizzard has an open beta phase, I'm willing to give WoW a chance to impress me even though I don't expect it to do so.

You cleverly disguised your "This game is going to [suck/rule] because of x, y and z" complaint into a bitch about how everyone else that is making the same complaint is uncool.  You get an A for effort.  I'm guessing you think your bitch is more valid than anyone elses because it involves marketing words like innovation and has a reference to how you're OG by playing a MUD?

[Foix]

Not that I don't love you, cevik, but in your rush to try to come across as clever, you appear to have overlooked the second paragraph of my post.

Do I think the game will be good? No. Am I certain that it won't be? No. Am I willing to change my mind? Yes. Do I consider that different from 'OMG this game is going to suck even though I've never played it and never will and here's why'? Yes. Do you have to agree with that distinction? No. Could you do so without coming across as TEH SUPAR SLOOTH fuckhead? Apparently not.

Re: innovation, feel free to go through the WT and P2P archives for the armchair game design nonsense I wrote in the appropriate forums back when I thought what I wanted in a game hadn't been said many times before by others and might conceivably be implemented at some point within my lifetime. If I provided a bulleted list every time I post of everything that I'd like to see in future MMORPGs, would that magically unbunch your panties, clear the sand out of your vagina, and cause you to repeatedly bounce the pointy end of a claw hammer off of your vacuum-sealed skull? Though it might mean that the community would lose the MODERN-DAY SHERLOCK HOLMES, I'd do it if you asked nicely.

Now I'm going to play some Dragonrealms. Only because I want to be leet, though; not because I've been annoying the hell out of people in every incarnation of this community by telling them that it's the best damn commercial online roleplaying experience currently available, which it is. While I do so, however, I will shed a tear that I am not playing a free MUD, building my own or misreading other people's posts in order to make smartass comments: true leetness will never be mine.

[Rasix]

Dragonrealms is superb. I'd probably be playing still if I hadn't been trapped by the shiney and empty promises of SWG and now currently in the grasps of "fun for now" CoH.  

I'm afraid that by the time I get back to DR, I'll barely recognize it. That game goes through more subtle and undocumented changes than anything I've ever seen.

[schild]

I can't bring myself to play MUDs at length anymore. Just can't do that.

[cevik]

Not that I don't love you, cevik, but in your rush to try to come across as clever, you appear to have overlooked the second paragraph of my post.

Do I think the game will be good? No. Am I certain that it won't be? No. Am I willing to change my mind? Yes. Do I consider that different from 'OMG this game is going to suck even though I've never played it and never will and here's why'? Yes. Do you have to agree with that distinction? No. Could you do so without coming across as TEH SUPAR SLOOTH fuckhead? Apparently not.

No I read it and quoted it.  You're drawing some arbitrary distinction by pre-juding the game then telling everyone else that the way you pre-judged is better than the way they pre-judged because your way has a little disclaimer at the end saying "I might change my mind later but I really really doubt I will because this game is teh sux".  I'm sorry but you're still being a hypocrit, I didn't jump the gun in calling you one.  

Everything anyone has said in this thread has been the exact same, we all believe the game most likely will suck, none of us have played it, we are willing to predict it will suck but we'll have to get back to you later for a final verdict after we play it.  The only thing different in your post is you felt some need to spell out the fucking obvious by saying that you'll make a decision later, even though you already think you know what that decision will be.  Well that's[/i] fucking news let me tell you what.

I'm sorry Foix, but you did what everyone else did in this entire thread, only you did it while chastising everyone else.  It's fucking hypocritical and pretty damn silly.  You could have at least made it two seperate posts.

[Margalis]

To nobody in particular:

You know...nobody *forces* you to have an uninformed opinion.

A lot of people said CoH would really suck, now they are eating crow. Why bother making the pronouncements in advance? Especially when they are based on silly, broad idealogies like "I'll never play a game without a respec" or "I'll never play a game with PVP." Gee, what if a game comes out that doesn't have or NEED respecs? Oops.

Complaining about something like a combat log is just a joke. Oh no, some text I can read or choose not to! The verdict from people who actually ARE playing WoW seems to be this:

a: It's nothing amazingly original
b: It does a lot of things better than existing games

I don't have any problem with people coming up with specific complaints, or saying "it doesn't sound like what I'm looking for." What I do have a problem with is people bristling with anger when someone suggest they play first, THEN form strong opinions. Novel. Basing your opinions on the actual game. That's considered snobby now?

[Riggswolfe]

There is a very good reason not to like Vivendi Universal (aka Blizzard).

I just scanned the article you linked to but if I'm understanding right you're saying that you don't like them and this is an example why. I see a lawsuit over copyright infringement. Nothing wrong there depending on the specific facts of the case.

I despise Vivdendi for a whole host of reasons, but still like Blizzard. In any case, even if I didn't like the game company (for instance my feelings for Interplay have changed 180 degrees from how they were say 5 years ago) I might still buy their products. I think Microsoft is about as evil as software companies get, but I still use their products because I like their products.

WoW continues the Blizzard tradition which is that they don't innovate, they evolve. It's not the next generation that everybody is hoping for. What it is, for the most part, is a game that improves on most systems of current games.

Hell, any game that can make melee interesting is good in my book.

[XmasReturns]

I'm pretty new to this board, but I'm reading a lot of the opinions on CoH and WoW...I'm just curious, where am I to get into these betas?

[schild]

City of Heroes can be bought in stores.

WoW's beta application is no longer available, afaik.

[XmasReturns]

Ok gotcha thx

[Phred]

As for Guild Wars, previously I said that it was allowing me to tweak my stats however I wanted. I don't know if there is a max number of times you can change your stats on a character or if they patched it so you couldn't tweak your stats freely anymore but I found that my stats are locked in now.

There are stat reassignment points you use when you rearrange your stats. once it hit's zero, no more rearranging. You can see them at the top  of the stats box.

[XmasReturns]

To add on to Phred, these points would be called Refund points, and they are located right below your attribute points...which in the demo are locked at 150 attribute points.

[Krakrok]

In any case, even if I didn't like the game company ... I might still buy their products. I think Microsoft is about as evil as software companies get, but I still use their products because I like their products.

"Look teh shiny!"

Lead on Icarus.

[Pug]

Complaining about something like a combat log is just a joke. Oh no, some text I can read or choose not to!

Not speaking to any specific Margalis, but I only chose to point out that WoW's combat system will to all intents and purposes suck a dead cat's ass because someone couldn't stop blindly plugging the game long enough to stay on topic.

Someone spent five minutes in the Guild Wars solo area and said:

Combat was....eh. Click, hit special attack button, click.

and then went on to talk about how glorious WoW is.

Hey, guess what... all a first person shooter has to offer is click, hit a special attack button, click. All a MMOG has to offer is click, hit a special attack, click. All a RTS has to offer is click, hit a special attack, click. That doesn't say anything about the actual combat system.

Maybe the problem is that you WoW fanboi are so use to playing MMOGs that you forgot how computers even get their input. "You mean clicking the mouse and hitting keys actually makes a difference?!?"

Choosing the logging feature as a sore spot was easy. It's obvious that your input is secondary at best or else you would already know what you had done wrong when you do something wrong. There would be no need for a chat box log to tell you what you did right, what you did wrong or for special calculators to crunch all the numbers that you are producing. You need the log because you aren't playing.

Here's another great WoW combat tidbit:

Melee Range
If you wish to fight in melee combat, make sure you are in range to hit the monster. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if you're out of range or not but look for red warning messages informing you that you're out of range.

That's just too intense. Try to stay near the mob so that you can hit it. Good thing there are red warning messages to let you know when you stray.

[Riggswolfe]

Not speaking to any specific Margalis, but I only chose to point out that WoW's combat system will to all intents and purposes suck a dead cat's ass because someone couldn't stop blindly plugging the game long enough to stay on topic.

Someone spent five minutes in the Guild Wars solo area and said:

Combat was....eh. Click, hit special attack button, click.

and then went on to talk about how glorious WoW is.

That someone was me. I compared the two games because that is a valid method of speaking of ones feelings about a game or reviewing a game. Go read any review site. How often do you see phrases such as "like Diablo" "compared to Halo" etc?

Hey, guess what... all a first person shooter has to offer is click, hit a special attack button, click. All a MMOG has to offer is click, hit a special attack, click. All a RTS has to offer is click, hit a special attack, click. That doesn't say anything about the actual combat system.

All a word processor has is alot of clicks and keyboard presses too. The actual combat system felt quite boring to me. I don't know I just couldn't get into it. As I've said repeatedly I'm going to give the game another try, especially after talking to Schild and him making the point that it is more intended to be a successor to Diablo (OH MY GOD HE MENTIONED SOME OTHER GAME HE MUST BE A RAMPANT FANBOI!!!!) rather than a true MMOG. When I thought of it that way I decided to look at it from that standpoint. Now I just have to motivate myself.

Maybe the problem is that you WoW fanboi are so use to playing MMOGs that you forgot how computers even get their input. "You mean clicking the mouse and hitting keys actually makes a difference?!?"

You know, this statement is so asinine I can't even think of a reply.

Choosing the logging feature as a sore spot was easy. It's obvious that your input is secondary at best or else you would already know what you had done wrong when you do something wrong. There would be no need for a chat box log to tell you what you did right, what you did wrong or for special calculators to crunch all the numbers that you are producing. You need the log because you aren't playing.

The logging feature has many potential uses. It can be used to do analysis: Is 1h and shield better than 2h?

It can be used for fan sites to write guides to combat

Hell it can be used so you can go "look at that crit I did!"

But really, it's a stupid nitpick to have with a game. "Oh my god, they have a feature that is totally optional that I'm to l337 to need. How dare they try to appeal to various types of players. They should only cater to my very limited viewpoint!"

[Riggswolfe]

In any case, even if I didn't like the game company ... I might still buy their products. I think Microsoft is about as evil as software companies get, but I still use their products because I like their products.

"Look teh shiny!"

Lead on Icarus.

You know, I'm not even totally sure what the point of this post was. It's hard for me to give any validation to a post that uses that retarded misspelling of the which has been part of internet speak. In any case if the point was that I'm some kind of bastard for using products from a company whose business practices I disapprove of, it's called the realities of life. People may think McDonald's makes shitty food that'll kill you in ten years, but they still buy it when its convenient. You may think Walmart is evil, but their prices are cheap and if that kind of thing matters to you likely you'll still shop there.

BTW, I'm not real sure how the old myth of Icarus played into your "message" but I guess it made you feel better to try to sound intelligent.

Hmmmm....

Pump it up Hercules!

There. Got my classical reference in. Now I can pretend to be intellectual too!

[schild]

Pissing Fight over. Riggs, stop defending WoW. Everyone else, start bitching after you've played it (I am a member of this group).

Locking this thread, leaving other one open.