WoW expansion sneak peak -- any details?

[stray]

Blademaster please (and they better be Warriors, not Rogues).

Don't be retarded. They go invisible and "backstab." They're the closest thing to rogues that game will ever get.

Yes, but they use 2 handed swords. Either the Rogue would get 2 handed Hero ability, or the Warrior gets an Invis Hero ability. It's not such a "retarded" suggestion.

[schild]

Warriors don't go invis. It makes sense to just let them do it with a one handed sword. Not that it matters since all that speculation has been proved wrong. 

[stray]

OK then. Rogues it is. Warriors will be Raiders instead (not a hero class, but hey). Then we'll be able to attack from mounts.

Yeah, that'd be nice  :-D.

[TheWalrus]

You play Sargeras? Faction, name?

Horde, Mareen 57 mage, Rorden 53 rogue.

[Morfiend]

You play Sargeras? Faction, name?

Horde, Mareen 57 mage, Rorden 53 rogue.

Look me up if you need people to group with. www.dreadguard.com, you can find me in game as Morv. 60 undead rogue. We do all the high end content except BWL.

[Miasma]

You play Sargeras? Faction, name?

Horde, Mareen 57 mage, Rorden 53 rogue.

Rorden as in Everquest 1 level 60 barbarian rouge on Morden Rasp in CoV?

I played Detoran lvl 60 halfling druid in CoV.  Wow, what a small virtual world we live in.  I should have known you were here since I only found out about f13 from a link of yours on the guild site.

How have you been?  What's Forgehammer up to?  I guess the guild never did move to EQ2.

[Miasma]

Yes, but they use 2 handed swords. Either the Rogue would get 2 handed Hero ability, or the Warrior gets an Invis Hero ability. It's not such a "retarded" suggestion.

If it matters the blade master in the collector's edition art book actually has two blades, they aren't swords either but sort of wrap around his forearms.  I don't have a picture.

[TheWalrus]

  Holy fuck! Det we miss you buddy. We talk about you and Ness all the time man. Lex and Atropa bailed out awhile ago after we got tired of their catass uber must raid 24/7 bullshit attitude. They still play EQ2 and have a guild called Heros Fate. Bullshit I say, bullshit.

[stray]

we got tired of their catass uber must raid 24/7 bullshit attitude

And back to the original subject, I fear being a 60 in WoW. One of my friends is enlightening me on his experiences, and I can't say that I'm impressed.

[edit] "No grind" my ass.

[TheWalrus]

 No, that was in reference to EQ2 stuff. I don't think any of our group feels like 60 is uber catass bullshit so far. Some people do that, sure, but theres lots to do aside from camping in a dungeon. We pretty much left the assholes and idjits to EQ2 or Hell as we like to call it.

[stray]

Most of those "idjits" from EQ are playing WoW, I thought. Not EQ2.

I know one thing at least: Very few are playing because it's "Warcraft".

[WindupAtheist]

Pandarians?  Giant panda-people???  Robot-ninja-elftastic!

[schild]

Pandarians?  Giant panda-people???  Robot-ninja-elftastic!

Actually, with the little lore they have, pandas are drunkards. I'm sorry Lord Blackthorne touched you in a bad place, but even I might resub to play a panda. But it will never be put in as a PC race. Too bad.

[Pococurante]

I doubt Blizz wants the free publicity at the next Las Vegas Furry Rally that badly.

[Margalis]

I feel sorry for people that believe in stuff like Hero classes.

It's obvious what Hero classes are. Just vaporware promises to keep people's hopes up after they hit 60. If they had any real idea what Hero Classes would be they would have released information on them already.

[Paelos]

I know what hero classes are. They are what happens when 60 no longer becomes the level cap. They'll just add on new abilities to train in said levels and call them a hero levels.

ToA anyone?

[Ironwood]

Surely this isn't news to anyone ?

It's probably going to be a cross between that and 'Epic' talents.

Oh God.  I foresee a wide range of choices, only one of which is viable....

[stray]

I feel sorry for people that believe in stuff like Hero classes.

It's obvious what Hero classes are. Just vaporware promises to keep people's hopes up after they hit 60. If they had any real idea what Hero Classes would be they would have released information on them already.

Umm...I don't really give a shit about the game, so don't think I'm "desperate" for Hero classes or something.

The reason why hero classes are brought up from time to time is because they're in the Strategy games and part of the lore. That's all. It's not like they're some big mystery as to what they could/will be (minus a few details here and there). Blizzard has already translated almost the entire gamut of all that is the "world" of Warcraft, so why not this too? I don't see it as wishful thinking.

[schild]

The reason why hero classes are brought up from time to time is because they're in the Strategy games. That's all.

When I think of hero classes I think of AD&D or gaming specific things such as Cecil turning into a paladin or the multitude of other example (getting the "powers" in Advent Rising is a more recent one). The "heroes" in Warcraft III were ripped apart and put into WoW as base classes, sure the names are less epic, but most (all?) of their powers already exist in the game as regular skills. Surely creating a hero class system as it's used in MMORPGs and raising the level cap should be considered the most offensive and uncreative thing a developer can do and if that does end up being the case then there's only one response:

Blizzard doesn't deserve your money or anyone elses.

[stray]

The only thing comes to mind that's "already" a Hero class is the Paladin (probably what they should have done is have the base class as a Knight...Then upgrade to a Pally).

Not even Shamans would be a hero class in Warcraft. That would be a Far Seer.

Human Mage > Archmage

Dwarf Warrior > Mountainking

Tauren Warrior > Chieftan

etc..

Some things I could see being trouble to translate. Like, only Elf Females could be Priestesses of the Moon. But either way, there's still lot of powers/classes that aren't covered by what's already in the game.

[schild]

Sure, but imagine if they did put in those odd powers - particularly the RTS specific ones - but more than that you run into the problem of simply asking "why?"

I know I'd rather just play Warcraft III. This is also known as the Star Wars Galaxies Jedi Conundrum. If you wanted to be a jedi knight, you would just play Jedi Knight 2 or KoToR. But the developers decided to make Jedi the ultimate class and have every nutjob strive for it instead of trying to be creative. Great, Blizzard wastes time putting in a bunch of hero classes that are just rehashes of a 4 year old strategy game. Ok, I'll just play that kthx.

[stray]

Y'know...

Actually, I take back that bit about Blizzard translating the "world" of Warcraft fairly well up to this point.

The lore and atmosphere are there for the most part, but what they didn't translate was any of the feel or gameplay from the other games (I don't mean I want a full blown MMORTS. I'm just talking about certain bits and pieces from that genre. Especially pertaining to PvP).

So anyways...Back to the original topic. After thinking about it, I'm just going to say "fuck extra content". WoW needs some more strategy/building elements. Give me Shadowbane 2.0 with Warcraft skins and controllable Peons please.

I know 3 million (or more) people are going to disagree with me, but I'm starting to think that Blizzard dropped the ball here! There shouldn't have been any premade towns (small ones at least) or large zones of Alliance/Horde territory; Goldmines and lumber should have definitely been a BIG factor, etc., etc..

/sigh

Oh well. I'm sure they're happy with it being just another game for generic mmo junkies, but I wonder if they would have succeeded just as well if they REALLY tried to incorporate "Warcraft".

[edit] No need for anyone to tell me that I lack originality. I'm sure this complaint has been brought up before.

[schild]

[edit] No need for anyone to tell me that I lack originality. I'm sure this complaint has been brought up before.

By me no less, at some point during beta I remember specifically saying that I felt like a peon with nothing to build.

[Righ]

I feel sorry for people that believe in stuff like Hero classes.

What you have to do is collect legendary tokens that drop from raid bosses. When re-assembled and activated, these tokens will start a quest to retrain your character in an entirely different class. As you gain levels in your new class from killing mobs over level 48, you'll drop levels, talents and skills in your old class. Once you hit level 60 in hte new class, you'll have to repeat the process twice more with more legendary tokens. When you've bene through this hellish grind three times, you'll get your lightsaber.

[Merusk]

Whelp.. there will be new races. That, or the CGW editor is using his blog to help Bliz spread misinformation.   Let the speculation commence.

[jpark]

Most of those "idjits" from EQ are playing WoW, I thought. Not EQ2.

I know one thing at least: Very few are playing because it's "Warcraft".

Well, according to Schild all 4 million of them are playing because its "Blizzard"   :-D

[Soln]

Blademaster please (and they better be Warriors, not Rogues).

pray not like those of DAoC, which I presume are still broken (or, never fixed?)?

[schild]

Well, according to Schild all 4 million of them are playing because its "Blizzard"   :-D

There aren't 4 million EQ players - more like 400,000. And the EQ players are specifically are playing WoW because it is Everquest 2. Keke. Seriously though, EQ players? Such a paltry number.

[WindupAtheist]

I know 3 million (or more) people are going to disagree with me, but I'm starting to think that Blizzard dropped the ball here! There shouldn't have been any premade towns (small ones at least) or large zones of Alliance/Horde territory; Goldmines and lumber should have definitely been a BIG factor, etc., etc..

Blizzard cares not for the wacky "Shadowbane done right" ideas of the MMO kook fringe that frequents boards of this nature.  They're doing EQ 2.0 and dancing naked in piles of money.  This is like suggesting that McDonalds should have been a chain of exclusive high-class eateries, or that Britney Spears should try to sound more like Bjork.

[stray]

I know 3 million (or more) people are going to disagree with me, but I'm starting to think that Blizzard dropped the ball here! There shouldn't have been any premade towns (small ones at least) or large zones of Alliance/Horde territory; Goldmines and lumber should have definitely been a BIG factor, etc., etc..

Blizzard cares not for the wacky "Shadowbane done right" ideas of the MMO kook fringe that frequents boards of this nature.  They're doing EQ 2.0 and dancing naked in piles of money.  This is like suggesting that McDonalds should have been a chain of exclusive high-class eateries, or that Britney Spears should try to sound more like Bjork.

Perhaps you misunderstood. I'm simply speaking in terms of a war game with strategic and base building elements. Shadowbane 2.0 with Peons is just an easier way to describe it (but at the very least, you'd have to play SB to even understand what I'm even talking about....So why comment?). If they didn't truly "care" (in the sense that you're thinking) THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MAKING WARCRAFT GAMES FOR A DECADE NOW.

I don't think it's that they don't care. They've done a lot of a work in making a PvP system (one that would make YOU cry at that....Your ideas of what is "fringe" is way off). I just think that they made the mistake of looking at only one side (the mmorpg side) for inspiration, and didn't draw enough ideas from their own games. It could have been both. As it is, it just doesn't "feel" like any Warcraft game before it, except in atmosphere. If I'm a kook for wanting a Warcraft to be a Warcraft game, then so be it.

As for dancing in piles of money: Either way, they would have been successful. Even it was completely broken and had zero content. The question was would they have been just as successful?.

[schild]

Blizzard could have shat in a box and broken the 1 million MMORPG subscriber cap. As many as they have now? Probably not. But 1 million? Easy. Basically - their brand of shit smells better than others.

[Merusk]

As for dancing in piles of money: Either way, they would have been successful. Even it was completely broken and had zero content. The question was would they have been just as successful?.

The law of SWG says no.  Sure, inital box sales would have been good, but a crappy game is still a crappy game.

[stray]

pray not like those of DAoC, which I presume are still broken (or, never fixed?)?

Nothing like that. In WoW's terms, the best I could imagine them would basically be a Warrior with Mage Blink (not even stealth in the sneaky backstab sense that Rogues play out as).

[Cheddar]

As for dancing in piles of money: Either way, they would have been successful. Even it was completely broken and had zero content. The question was would they have been just as successful?.

The law of SWG says no.  Sure, inital box sales would have been good, but a crappy game is still a crappy game.

Poor comparison.  Star Wars is known for focusing on movies and Burger King.  Blizzard is known for good games.  Its a sociological cross section thingamajiggy.

[WindupAtheist]

Perhaps you misunderstood. I'm simply speaking in terms of a war game with strategic and base building elements.

And I'm speaking in terms of reality.  Blizzard has clearly set out to make a bigger and better Everquest, and that's exactly what they have done.  They won.  They got their moneyhats, and made SOE their bitch.  They're not about to risk poisoning their cash cow by trying to turn it into an experimental MMORTS.  That sort of ploy is left to the would-be challengers, who will need to do SOMETHING different if they expect to even be noticed.

Shadowbane 2.0 with Peons is just an easier way to describe it (but at the very least, you'd have to play SB to even understand what I'm even talking about....So why comment?). If they didn't truly "care" (in the sense that you're thinking) THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MAKING WARCRAFT GAMES FOR A DECADE NOW.

They make Warcraft games for the same reason they make Diablo games, which is money.  Not because they have some religious devotion to peons and base-building.

I don't think it's that they don't care. They've done a lot of a work in making a PvP system (one that would make YOU cry at that....Your ideas of what is "fringe" is way off). I just think that they made the mistake of looking at only one side (the mmorpg side) for inspiration, and didn't draw enough ideas from their own games. It could have been both. As it is, it just doesn't "feel" like any Warcraft game before it, except in atmosphere. If I'm a kook for wanting a Warcraft to be a Warcraft game, then so be it.

Same intellectual property, different genres.  This is like playing Jedi Academy and bitching that it's not enough like Tie Fighter.

As for dancing in piles of money: Either way, they would have been successful. Even it was completely broken and had zero content. The question was would they have been just as successful?.

Taking the biggest, blandest, most blatant example of "Clone what's already out there but tweak the shitty parts!" and ragging on it for not being bold and experimental is, I suppose, valid.  It's also rather silly.