In honor of new and upcoming releases: Books!

[Merusk]

Murg's point is blunt, but it's true.  If all you enjoy reading is more adult fare and artistry, don't bother.  Salvatore is a fantasy pulp writer, like all of the D&D book authors.  You read them because you enjoy the setting, the world and possibly the characters, you don't read them expecting good literature. I got into them because my wife had the books when we were dating and I wanted something to read.  

They're aimed at older teens.  There's some sex, blood and evil machination but it's all as deep as the rest of the D&D lore. The edginess is there - mainly in the Legacy and Dark ELf series -  but it's not anything R-rating level.  If you're wanting G.R.R. Martin level of adult fare, skip 'em.  They fall between the last 2 Potters and Martin on the 'edginess' scale.

Really, the best ones are the IWD and DE trilogys. Rather than buying 'em just harass whoever has them checked-out at the library until they return 'em.

I work at a library ;)

I know, that's why I suggested harassing whoever had 'em.  Of course if they're not in the catalogue that's a bit problematic.

[Llava]

I will echo what's been said about Salvatore.  I enjoyed it in high school, I don't know if I still would.  Regarding how evil the Drow are... they're pretty evil.  Aside from the standard slave ownership and such, their entire society in based on a strict hierarchy and an "it's only wrong if you get caught" rule.  One noble house ambushing and completely annihilating another noble house to get just a bit more status is reasonably common- if they do it well, there will either be no survivors or any survivors will have switched sides.  If they don't do it well, and there's a single loyal member of the family left to tattle, the attacking house is annihilated.

But will you see truly awful stuff, like stuff you'd find in "Saw"?  No.  It's still a series for teens.

Now, if you can appreciate it for that, you may still enjoy it.  Salvatore has some other non-D&D books, some good some crap.  I enjoyed the Crimson Shadow series, but again I was in high school during this period.  I don't know if I'd still enjoy them.

Has anyone else actually picked up the City of Heroes book?  It was released early this week, I've been enjoying it so far.  Didn't really care for the first chapter introducing the Dark Watcher, but otherwise it's kept me interested.

[stray]

I don't know what to suggest as far as "mature" Sci-Fi/Fantasy really (still need to check out Black Company!), but the last Dune trilogy was really good (The Butlerian Jihad). You'd probably have to be familiar with the original Dune books to get full enjoyment out of them, but they can still be read on their own as well (it's like 10,000 years before "Dune" anyways, so....).

Lots of grey/amoralism, and depth to a good number of the characters.

Slight Spoiler: Especially "Erasmus" (the android who ends up being a precursor to the Mentats).

Most of the story takes place on battlegrounds and within military conflict though, so like 2/3rds is "action paced". Deep character portraits, but not necessarily deep writing (but fast and fun).

[voodoolily]

I'm in the beginning stages of writing a cookbook. Or rather, a collection of recipes with hilarious anecdotes about my childhood and current experiences with food and cooking. Wish me luck! I figure it's easier (and WAY cheaper) than trying to start up a catering company.

...of course, I'm sure whatever it is I end up doing will have already been done, but if that one bitch can get a best-seller writing about how she followed some Julia Child recipes, fuck, anyone can write a goddamned cookbook.

[Xilren's Twin]

I'm looking for a decent fantasy (or even sci-fi) series written for a mature audience. Mature doesn't mean it has to be Hugo award level technobable/philosophical writting, just that the stories deal with characters and subject matters that aren't aimed at the Harry Potter crowd.

As big a flaws Jordan's books have, they do hit on a few things I enjoy - mature subject matter, shades of grey characters, things like that. I really don't think I could bring myself to read the latest one though

Hell, that last stuff I read series wise was Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake books. They have plenty of thier own problems, but at least it was a refreshing change from the typical PG at best rated stuff I'd been reading.

Then I'd recommend the Sun Sword series by Michelle West, the Reality Dsyfunction by Peter Hamilton (i think), and the Dresden files by Jim Butcher.  

I really like the Dresden files for modern fantasy compared to the Anita Blake books; she just took a nose dive straight into wierd S&M sex with various monsters after like book 4.  Like I really want to read about how the main character practiced deep throating on one werecriiter so she could do it for the other eleventy billion things she sleeps with.  Oh look, yet another sex trio with a vampire, werewolf and the main character.  Yawn.

Xilren

[Bunk]

Yea, that pretty much sums up what happend to Anita Blake.

[Yegolev]

Then I'd recommend the Sun Sword series

[Shockeye]

There was that WoT PC game out awhile back .. played the multiplayer demo for awhile. Seemed ok but nothing too special. Of course, the "special" parts are the parts that don't translate into a video game very well.

Until Jordan remembers how to write an interesting novel, he should not be mentioned in these forums again. Those in concurrence, say 'Aye'.

I still quite enjoy Wheel of Time game from time to time. That offensive/defensive choices make it a constantly interesting challenge when playing against other people.

[Shockeye]

I enjoyed Weiss and Hickman's Death Gate Cycle.

[schild]

I enjoyed Weiss and Hickman's Death Gate Cycle.

I'll never forgive them for pretending to kill Tas. Chicken feathers indeed.

[Johny Cee]

I really like the Dresden files for modern fantasy compared to the Anita Blake books; she just took a nose dive straight into wierd S&M sex with various monsters after like book 4.  Like I really want to read about how the main character practiced deep throating on one werecriiter so she could do it for the other eleventy billion things she sleeps with.  Oh look, yet another sex trio with a vampire, werewolf and the main character.  Yawn.

Xilren

Yah, pretty much.

The Anita Blake novels,  much like Jordan's, have devoled into author wish fullfillment as far as relationships go. 

There also a fairly strong tendency for some female authors to churn out what's basically "romance novels with dragons". 

@ Sky:

Supposedly from the interview with Cook I linked on the first page,  the Sci Fi Book Club is compiling and reissuing his less popular works.  The "Dread Empire" books are getting the treatment,  and the "Garret" books have already been compiled and reissued.

"Dread Empire" is GOOD.  And impossible to find without splurging at online resellers.

"Garrett, PI" series is excellent.  Noir detective fantasy, the back drop is a generations spanning war.  Cook really has emphasized the tensions between the native human population,  and the immigrant other races who have moved in to the city to take over jobs left idle by the drafted humans.  Sometimes just as brutul, if not more, than the Black Company.

One novel,  literally every character dies except for Garrett,  and he's left as an emotional mess.

Check out Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates by Steven Erikson.  Cook was a big influence on Erikson,  and there are plenty of homages.  The Chain of Dogs in Deadhouse Gates is amazing writing.  Really hit on something epic there.

[stray]

This isn't exactly "new" (reprinted 2002), but I finally picked it up last night:

The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian

It's a compilation of all of Howard's first Conan stories (in the order they were written...not necessarily in the order of Conan's timeline), and it is the shit. I've read Conan the Conqueror, some of the stories contained in the above, some comics, I'm a fan of the first film, but never delved into Howard's stuff quite enough (except the first two mentioned). Besides the comics, I've never read any "pseudo-Conan" literature (And don't plan to, because only Robert E. Howard really knows Conan enough to write about him).

Even so though, Conan has always been the "standard" in fantasy for me (Lord of the What? J.R.R Who?). And it's not just for the barbarian themes (which definitely appeals to me), but REH's prose. Even if he came from a pulp background, he makes most subsequent fantasy novelists look like they're writing for juveniles (and they are, for the most part). He's a great writer first and foremost, not just a guy who writes great Sword and Sorcery. He deserves to be recognized beyond this genre that he helped springboard and create (just as much as that Tolkien guy).....But probably never will (but the character he created still lives on, so I guess it's not a bad deal).

Anyways, just wondering if anyone has it as well.

I also picked up Dhalgren because I've heard so much about what a "classic" it is. Will see...

[Johny Cee]

This isn't exactly "new" (reprinted 2002), but I finally picked it up last night:

The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian

It's a compilation of all of Howard's first Conan stories (in the order they were written...not necessarily in the order of Conan's timeline), and it is the shit. I've read Conan the Conqueror, some of the stories contained in the above, some comics, I'm a fan of the first film, but never delved into Howard's stuff quite enough (except the first two mentioned). Besides the comics, I've never read any "pseudo-Conan" literature (And don't plan to, because only Robert E. Howard really knows Conan enough to write about him).

Even so though, Conan has always been the "standard" in fantasy for me (Lord of the What? J.R.R Who?). And it's not just for the barbarian themes (which definitely appeals to me), but REH's prose. Even if he came from a pulp background, he makes most subsequent fantasy novelists look like they're writing for juveniles (and they are, for the most part). He's a great writer first and foremost, not just a guy who writes great Sword and Sorcery. He deserves to be recognized beyond this genre that he helped springboard and create (just as much as that Tolkien guy).....But probably never will (but the character he created still lives on, so I guess it's not a bad deal).

Anyways, just wondering if anyone has it as well.

I also picked up Dhalgren because I've heard so much about what a "classic" it is. Will see...

I'll second the Howard recommendation.  There are two books out now,  with a third compilation due out on November 29 of this year.  It always amazes me that people like Howard and Lovecraft (contemporaries who corresponded quite a bit) were struggling pulp writers.

I also have a copy of Dhalgren I've been meaning to get into.  It's probably sitting in a pile with my copies of Pliny, Lilith, and Perdido Street Station...

You might want to find a copy of Dilvish the Damned.  It's Roger Zelazny,  set up as more of a loose compilation of short stories.  Zelazny is the man.

[Johny Cee]

I will echo what's been said about Salvatore.  I enjoyed it in high school, I don't know if I still would.  Regarding how evil the Drow are... they're pretty evil.  Aside from the standard slave ownership and such, their entire society in based on a strict hierarchy and an "it's only wrong if you get caught" rule.  One noble house ambushing and completely annihilating another noble house to get just a bit more status is reasonably common- if they do it well, there will either be no survivors or any survivors will have switched sides.  If they don't do it well, and there's a single loyal member of the family left to tattle, the attacking house is annihilated.

I'd put Salvatore in the same genre as Gemmell.  Pulp fantasy, churned out regularly.  Fairly entertaining.

I was another person that enjoyed it in high school,  but don't really feel the need to revisit it now.

[stray]

Zelazny is the man.

I was going to pick up one of his instead of Dhalgren, but decided against it (for no reason really). So far I've read the PKD/Zelazny collaboration (sort of a collaboration) Deus Irae, but nothing by Zelazny per se.

[Margalis]

My dad has all the Howard Conan stuff. Howard's Conan is great. The sad fact about fantasy is, most of it is not fantastic of mysterious or really interesting in any way. Fantasy as a genre is no more fantastic than by-the-numbers crime novels. The great thing about Conan stuff is it really does capture a sense of awe, foreboding, wonder and the like. Rather than shit which is basically "I roll for saving throw against Orc bash" translated into novel form.

And the stories can definitely be appreciated by adults. If you look at a story like The Frost Giant's Daughter, it is very adult themed. (In a good way)

Edit: Let me also say that the main reason I am totally disinterested in Robert Jordan is the wretchedness of his Conan stories. If Howard was an 8 on the sacle of 1-10 Jordan is hovering around -13 or so. The man is not a good writer at all. It's like when I re-read some Hickman and Weiss books - they are shockingly bad. I mean incredibly, amazingly, horrifically bad, to the point of pure embarrassment. Reading clearly 3rd-rate authors does not interest me.

How is your writing career coming along Paelos, btw?

[Johny Cee]

Zelazny is the man.

I was going to pick up one of his instead of Dhalgren, but decided against it (for no reason really). So far I've read the PKD/Zelazny collaboration (sort of a collaboration) Deus Irae, but nothing by Zelazny per se.

Go for the Amber books, Lord of Light, or This Immortal.  And Dilvish.  Solid works, all.

[Johny Cee]

Hmmm,  according to the Fat Man, Jim Butcher's "Dresden Files" have been picked up for a pilot on sci fi.  With Scifi's track record,  I'm not sure if that's a good thing. 

Article

[WayAbvPar]

Zelazny's Amber series is pretty solid.

I am shocked and dismayed to see all the Salvatore love. I think the man is the biggest hack on the planet. I am reasonably certain that he spends his non-writing time vigorously masturbating over character sheets for Drizz't and Wulfgar and the rest of his impossible puissant heroes.

I am about 3/4 of the way through book 11 of WoT. Not a ton has happened, but it seems much more interesting this time around. Maybe it is because he is actually dealing with the main characters instead of a host of tertiary characters.

[Shockeye]

I am about 3/4 of the way through book 11 of WoT. Not a ton has happened, but it seems much more interesting this time around. Maybe it is because he is actually dealing with the main characters instead of a host of tertiary characters.

I read that Rand is getting very minimal time in this book. Any truth?

[WayAbvPar]

He got a couple of chapters so far. Not much is happening, other than preparing for Tarmon Gai'don (or Armageddon, if you prefer). Matt and Egwene are getting most of the ink, with a couple of interminable Elayne chapters thrown in. I get the feeling that something will happen with Perrin and Faile before the end of the book as well.

[Shockeye]

I'm tired of Faile and the Shaido and all that. Very tired of it.

[dusematic]

I'm on page 450 something, and Rand got like 4 chapters in a row.  Chapters with Rand/Mat POV are the only things I enjoy lately. 

[Luxor]

I must say I enjoyed it, even the Egwene parts that normally I flip through. As for not much happening, compared to how Jordan normally writes this book is like a whirlwind. We have resolutions to the Matt, Perrin and Elayne storylines that have been going on for books now, armies marching to the final battle and the decks cleared for the Seanchan to ally with Rand.

Now if he could only write women without resorting to them going 'stony faced' whenever the least little fucking thing doesn't go their way, and 10 pages of descriptions about Elayne being pregnant ( drop the fucking sprog woman, christ almight ) I wouldnt need to go to the dentist for all my ground down teeth.

Sorry, cant quite work out spoiler tags!

[Rasix]

TOMORROW. YAY YAY YAY.

[stray]

TOMORROW. YAY YAY YAY.

"Tomorrow" what?

Book releases for the week of November 7 include

"Are Men Necessary?" By Maureen Dowd

"A Salty Piece of Land" By Jimmy Buffett

"Japanese Women Don't Get Old or Fat" By Naomi Noriyama

"Memoirs of My Melancholy Whores" By Gabriel Garcia Marquez (first book in years!)

"Talk to the Hand : The Utter Bloody Rudeness of the World Today, or Six Good Reasons to Stay Home and Bolt the Door" By Lynne Truss

Among other things...

What could you possibly be that excited about?

[Shockeye]

A Feast of Crows, I'm sure. I lost interest about halfway through book 2.

[Rasix]

A Feast of Crows, I'm sure. I lost interest about halfway through book 2.

And yet you're a Jordan'o'holic.    I'm not sure how you could lose interest midway though 2, I'd figure at the end or midway through 1 you'd have a sense for the series enough to formulate an opinion and decide if you'd want to continue.   

And yes, Feast For Crows. My favorite character won't be in this one, but it should still be a hell of a read. 

This is more exicting for me than Harry Potter.  WOOT WOOT WOOT. 

[Shockeye]

I haven't even bothered picking up or reading the newest WoT book.

[WayAbvPar]

FWIW, the newest WoT book was better than the past 3 or 4. Not up to par with the early books, but at least he spent the lion's share of time dealing with the main characters (the Two Rivers crowd +  Elayne).

I am eagerly anticipating AFfC. Although I am trying to reconcile the title with the fact that the events in the North are being pushed to another book...

[daveNYC]

FWIW, the newest WoT book was better than the past 3 or 4. Not up to par with the early books, but at least he spent the lion's share of time dealing with the main characters (the Two Rivers crowd +  Elayne).

Damning with faint praise, but true.  Stuff actually happens, and it makes me all the more angry that the previous 3-4 books were such wastes of wood pulp.  The guy still has a fetish for women's clothing though.

Looking for Jake is good.  Miéville, with one very short, and not exactly new, New Crobuzon story in there.

[Toast]

I got the last copy of A Feast For Crows at the Round Rock, TX Barnes and Noble. There were a bunch reserved behind the counter.

[Johny Cee]

Hmm,  2/3 of the way through it.  No spoilers.

It's good.  I'm liking it more than the other books,  but I was kind of lukewarm on some facets of the series.  No need to clutter up the thread with shit I've said before.

I like the Cersei perspectives.  Especially because she's a paranoid, crazy bitch.

I'm liking Margarery Tyrell (sp?  Mace Tyrell's daughter,  widow of Renly and Joffrey).  No perspectives from her,  just interesting when contrasted with Cersei.

I'm even liking Sansa Stark more,  and I really hated her perspectives. 

[WayAbvPar]

Got my copy at lunch yesterday, and finally cracked it open this afternoon. The first 4 pages have been interesting  :-D

[Murgos]

I picked it up tuesday but I'm still only about 100 pages into it (simply due to lack of free time).  I like it so far but I think maybe he has too many POV's going now.