In honor of new and upcoming releases: Books!

[dusematic]

My copy of KoD just arrived.  It's so crisp and fresh.

[dusematic]

Damn, looks like Galad is going to be Pedron Niall Jr. in a hot sec.  He just improbably killed Eamon Valda.  I desperately need to talk to someone about this.

[Margalis]

I jsut read "A Reader's Manifesto." It's not new (2002) but it was quite good and I recommend it to anyone who likes reading or (and especially) writing.

[Merusk]

Damn, looks like Galad is going to be Pedron Niall Jr. in a hot sec.  He just improbably killed Eamon Valda.  I desperately need to talk to someone about this.

Saw that forecast ages ago.. good to know, though. I hadden't seen that particular plot point in my search for 'what's happening in the new book' yet.

[Rasix]

WOT stuff.

Man, I hope you just didn't spoil that for the 2 Robert Jordan fans on this site.  They probably had to sit through 300 pages of braid tugging to get to that event.

I haven't read since book 8.  I have no idea what you just said though, which is probably a good thing. Err wait, this is WoT right?

Does this new book have actual plot progression? Like enough to warrant re-reading the series?

[stray]

I still don't get it. So much hate for Robert Jordan...

Yet, the amount of talk about the Wheel of Time that I run into on the Internet (haphazardly even) would fill volumes.

Glad to say that I never read it.

[dusematic]

WOT stuff.

Man, I hope you just didn't spoil that for the 2 Robert Jordan fans on this site.  They probably had to sit through 300 pages of braid tugging to get to that event.

I haven't read since book 8.  I have no idea what you just said though, which is probably a good thing. Err wait, this is WoT right?

Does this new book have actual plot progression? Like enough to warrant re-reading the series?

That revelation was on page 28, so I don't think I'm spoiling much.  At best, you're an "ex-Jordan fan" after reading eight of his fucking 3 pound dissertations. 

I still don't get it. So much hate for Robert Jordan...

Yet, the amount of talk about the Wheel of Time that I run into on the Internet (haphazardly even) would fill volumes.

Glad to say that I never read it.

Why are you glad to say you never read it?  That speaks to the same hate for Robert Jordan that you supposedly don't get. 

[Rasix]

That revelation was on page 28, so I don't think I'm spoiling much.  At best, you're an "ex-Jordan fan" after reading eight of his fucking 3 pound dissertations. 

Yep, don't deny that fact. I'm still very curious as to what all happens. I liked it all a lot through book 7. Book 8 was really slow and tortuous. I think I got 70 pages into book 9 before just throwing it down in frustration.  I hope the bastard gets to finish this whole series up before he croaks.

Still, if I do read it; I'll know in the back of my mind that some jackass I don't remember currently, dies on page 28 of book 12.   

[dusematic]

Still, if I do read it; I'll know in the back of my mind that some jackass I don't remember currently, dies on page 28 of book 12.   

My bad.

[Rasix]

Still, if I do read it; I'll know in the back of my mind that some jackass I don't remember currently, dies on page 28 of book 12.   

My bad.

No biggie, someone spoiled the ending of Minority Report for me once by putting the end in a thread title.  Didn't really end up caring much, I'm assuming this would be pretty much of the same feeling.

Of course, people better keep tight lipped when Feast For Crows come out.  It might be safer to just deploy the "Harry Potter strategy" and just stay the fuck away from the internet until I'm done.

[pants]

I still don't get it. So much hate for Robert Jordan...

Yet, the amount of talk about the Wheel of Time that I run into on the Internet (haphazardly even) would fill volumes.

Glad to say that I never read it.

I think the reason for the hate is that the first few books of WoT were really, really good.  Good story, interesting characters, nice plot progression that moved along at a good pace.  They were really good books and a lot of people enjoyed them.  Then they started to suck, and just got suckier.  And that made a lot of people angry, because something that was so good became so crap.  If they had have started crap, noone would have cared in the first place.  But the fact they were so good and so popular, and then became crap, has instigated the enormous amounts of gnashing and wailing that you see on the Internet.

[stray]

Why are you glad to say you never read it?  That speaks to the same hate for Robert Jordan that you supposedly don't get. 

What I don't "get" is that people hate the shit out of the Wheel of Time series, yet talk about it incessantly.

"I'm glad I never read it" because I haven't had to deal with that myself.

Anyways, as for the "new" book releases:

New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer (Bill Maher)

The R. Crumb Handbook (R.Crumb)

A comedy book and a comic....But that's all I've got for now (new at least). Anyone who likes Bill Maher will know what to expect from the first, and ditto for Crumb.

[Luxor]

Still, if I do read it; I'll know in the back of my mind that some jackass I don't remember currently, dies on page 28 of book 12.   

My bad.

Of course, people better keep tight lipped when Feast For Crows come out.  It might be safer to just deploy the "Harry Potter strategy" and just stay the fuck away from the internet until I'm done.

I really should have read the series again before the new one came out. I got a couple of chapters in and realised I didn't have a clue who was who. Time to restart again.

[Dren]

I think the hate for Jordan comes from wasting a good plot and world he built.  The first 5-7 books set up a great world with a great setting.  The systems put in place wouldn't be too bad for a MMOG IMO too.  I think most people reading it got pulled into this world and then got let down when every book afterward slowed way down and didn't seem to go anywhere.

We are all looking for answers, but Jordan just keeps heaping more questions on us.  He has been introducing more and more characters without resolving anything for the old ones.

As mentioned before, the frustration comes from knowing there is something good to come from all of this, but we are constantly waiting for it.  We feel we need to get a conclusion to the whole works since we have so much invested into it.

I didn't read the last novel, but I have it waiting to listen to on my commutes.  I'll pace it so I finish it just in time to buy the paperback a year from now.

[HaemishM]

Robert Jordan is the Everquest of fantasy novels.

People hate him because the first book, or first few books were so good, and there was only supposed to be like 3-6 books total in the series. He starts making serious bank on it and suddenly we have a 12-book opus of monstrous individual proportions, many of which can be summed up by

Bitch tugs on her braid
Calls men woolheaded
Second different yet indistinguishable bitch agrees
Men do something woolheaded

[Sky]

Book threads should implicitly prohibit any Jordan talk, which should be segregated into it's own thread. Like the fucking plague, he is.

[Merusk]

I think the hate for Jordan comes from wasting a good plot and world he built.  The first 5-7 books set up a great world with a great setting.  The systems put in place wouldn't be too bad for a MMOG IMO too. 

How about a MUD, or a few dozen of them.  WoT was the second-most popular setting when I was heavily into mudding. Some of the systems were brilliant and make MMO mechanics that much more depressing.

[Viin]

There was that WoT PC game out awhile back .. played the multiplayer demo for awhile. Seemed ok but nothing too special. Of course, the "special" parts are the parts that don't translate into a video game very well.

Until Jordan remembers how to write an interesting novel, he should not be mentioned in these forums again. Those in concurrence, say 'Aye'.

[Xilren's Twin]

Damn, looks like Galad is going to be Pedron Niall Jr. in a hot sec.  He just improbably killed Eamon Valda.  I desperately need to talk to someone about this.

Nay!  Sorry, I like the WoT world setting too much to stop now.  Besides, I need closure damnit.

So far, at least he has stuck to the major characters and there is some sense of movement forwards.  One battle to speak of thus far, and as usual, way way way too many words devoted to clothing, haristyles and descriptions of furniture.

Xilren

[Merusk]

And meals and food.  You forgot those.  4 pages on turnips and their purchase in a 15 page chapter.. wtf.

[dusematic]

Some people like Buffy, some people like Robert, let's call the whole thing off.

[Fargull]

Ten pages of Jordan = one page of Hubbard.. something something.

So far, the book is a mangle of crap, same as same.  To be honest, the wheel of time is like watching/reading Jordan have a mental breakdown as his story seems to be eating him alive.

[Xilren's Twin]

Ten pages of Jordan = one page of Hubbard.. something something.

So far, the book is a mangle of crap, same as same.  To be honest, the wheel of time is like watching/reading Jordan have a mental breakdown as his story seems to be eating him alive.

This just in, the entire book is very skippable.  Some minor things happened, but no major ones.  Color me unsurprised.

Xilren

[Margalis]

Lets go back to talking about books and leave the vomit-on-a-page for later discussions.

[Murgos]

Ten pages of Jordan = one page of Hubbard.. something something.

So far, the book is a mangle of crap, same as same.  To be honest, the wheel of time is like watching/reading Jordan have a mental breakdown as his story seems to be eating him alive.

This just in, the entire book is very skippable.  Some minor things happened, but no major ones.  Color me unsurprised.

Xilren

Thank you.  I was getting an itch to go pick it up in hardcover, now I feel like I can wait to bum it off a friend in paperback a couple of years from now.

A Feast for Crows though is going up next to my hardcovers of the first three.

[Sky]

Any thoughts on those Dark Elf books? I totally missed the bus on them, and I saw some nice bound versions of each trilogy (or whatever) when I was at Northshire in Vermont. Being a library-type, I jotted the ISBNs down in case they are worth getting. There were like four series iirc.

My girlfriend just took over fiction for our library and I'm pushing for the entire catalog of Black Company stuff :)

[Fargull]

Any thoughts on those Dark Elf books? I totally missed the bus on them, and I saw some nice bound versions of each trilogy (or whatever) when I was at Northshire in Vermont. Being a library-type, I jotted the ISBNs down in case they are worth getting. There were like four series iirc.

I like Salvatore's writing, so I like his whole work so far; and the only real complaint is that the teen geek squad spuged all over his Drizzit work.  His Cadderly books were more entertaining in my opinion, and I think are his best work to date.

[Merusk]

I agree on the Cadderly series.  Great books and a good character over all, even if there's some lines that can drawn between him and  Drizzt.

The Drow books are all pretty good.  I enjoy the earlier stuff more than the more recent stuff, if only because it seems like Salvatore is starting to get wrapped-up in the Drizzt mythos the teenybopper assclowns have built-up.  Early on you felt there was some sense of danger and risk, now it's just down to 'how do they get out of this one' that's so common in any long-running fantasy series. 

Another good series, set-up by Salvatore but authored by others has been the War of the Spider Queen. Each book is written by a different author, so it can feel a bit disjointed going from one book to the next as you acclimate to the new style, but the characters and story are consistent because they'd been fleshed-out beforehand. Kind of reminds me of the way the original DragonLance books worked, but with Drow. (good and evil)

[Toast]

Go get Rammer Jammer Yellow Hammer by Warren St. John.

The author joins the Alabama Crimson Tide motor-home fans for a college football season. It's great for any sports fan as it's part travel book and part analysis on the nature of sports fans.

[dusematic]

I thought the Dark Elf Trilogy was boring and poorly written.  I was surprised because all I've ever heard led me to believe Salvatore was the greatest author of our time.  But whatever, I was surprised to see so much hate for RJ here too, although I think that's partially due to a rebellion against how popular he is with the mainstream fantasy fan.

[Merusk]

It's all about what you're looking for.  Salvatore's characters are better and boader than Jordan's and I find them on the whole to be more believable.  They also don't turn into different hair-colored version of the same whiny indecisive puss with the stoic mug or bitchy high-handed female who just wants to melt at the touch of "Mr. Right."

  However, Salvatore's fight scene writing leaves much to be desired and often I have to read and re-read the scene to figure out what the fuck he's trying to convey is going on.  Even then I'm sometimes left thinking "well that couldn't fucking work" or "meh that was overwhelmingly convoluted and badly paced."   Jordan, on the other hand, writes fight scenes and particularly battles that you can practicaly FEEL.  That's traditionally why the latter third of his books have saved the previous boring slog through the first 2/3, and why I still enjoy readin Lord of Chaos just for the Dumai Wells bit.

Sky - The series in written order are: (numbers are chonological order)

(2)The Icewind Dale Trilogy: The Crystal Shard, Streams of Silver, The Halfling's Gem
(1)The Dark Elf Trllogy: Homeland, Exile, Sojourn
(3)Legacy of the Drow: The Legacy, Starless Night, Siege of Darkness, Passage to Dawn
(4) Hunter's Blade Trilogy: The Thousand Orcs, The Lone Drow, The Two Swords

There's also an offshoot called "The Paths of Darkness" which cover some of the ancillary characters a bit more, while still including Drizzt and fit in somemwhere between and around the Legacy set and the Hunter's Blade set. . Books are The Silent Blade, The Spine of the World, Servant of the Shard, Sea of Swords.

Really, the best ones are the IWD and DE trilogys. Rather than buying 'em just harass whoever has them checked-out at the library until they return 'em.  They're quick reads, maybe a weekend.

[Fargull]

Sky,

And well everyone I guess, though I think this author's work should be listed in the annuals of just damn good fantasy, is Robert Asprin's Myth series.  He starts to go nuts with them around book 7 or 8, but the first few books are just gold.  The Phule books are also good, but damn his Myth series is just like a good ice cold beer after a hot day and damn quick reads.

[Bunk]

Since apparently a couple of you have read the Drow books, I'll ask a couple questions. What age level of audience is it aimed at? Considering we are talking about what is supposed to be an inherently evil race, how edgy are the stories? I fear that I'll find the books to be: Look at us cool Drow! We are evil cause we talk mean and stuff and wear black clothes!

I'm looking for a decent fantasy (or even sci-fi) series written for a mature audience. Mature doesn't mean it has to be Hugo award level technobable/philosophical writting, just that the stories deal with characters and subject matters that aren't aimed at the Harry Potter crowd.

As big a flaws Jordan's books have, they do hit on a few things I enjoy - mature subject matter, shades of grey characters, things like that. I really don't think I could bring myself to read the latest one though

Hell, that last stuff I read series wise was Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake books. They have plenty of thier own problems, but at least it was a refreshing change from the typical PG at best rated stuff I'd been reading.

[Murgos]

Since apparently a couple of you have read the Drow books, I'll ask a couple questions. What age level of audience is it aimed at? Considering we are talking about what is supposed to be an inherently evil race, how edgy are the stories? I fear that I'll find the books to be: Look at us cool Drow! We are evil cause we talk mean and stuff and wear black clothes!

Look around at everyone named some form Drriz't on an MMOG and you should be able to answer these questions yourself.  I wondered what all the fuss was about a few years back and couldn't even begin to get into those books they were so derivative, my personal optinon was that he had cut and pasted some of the better bits out of more interesting books and then did a find and replace on the names while loosly stringing together disparate passages.

YMMV.

[Sky]

Really, the best ones are the IWD and DE trilogys. Rather than buying 'em just harass whoever has them checked-out at the library until they return 'em.

I work at a library ;) They aren't in the system, just a few books here and there. I was thinking of getting the compilations. Thanks for the info everyone.

Fargull - read the first few Mything books of Aspirin when I was a kid, he had just written the first iirc and I read a couple more as he wrote them before I got out of fantasy for a few years.

I really wish I could just find something better than the Black Company :P (since I've already read that about a hunnert times)