In honor of new and upcoming releases: Books!

[Pococurante]

Start with Boiling a Frog.

Haven't a clue to that story.

But this I know well. And it's true.  We're all frogs in various states of parboiled.

[Paelos]

My "Complete Calvin and Hobbes" newly released hardcover shipped today.

Oh wow.. I just found my Santa present.  Is it 'complete' or is it 100% fully complete?

Amazon linky

To answer the question, it's 1440 pages and bloody heavy. If it's missing anything, I haven't seen it yet.

[voodoolily]

I can't wait to pick this little gem up:

[Triforcer]

Try Gil's All-Fright Diner by A. Lee Martinez.  Its like Lovecraft meets Terry Pratchett, and the first book in a long time where I enjoyed the first chapter in the bookstore so much I bought it.

[voodoolily]

I also wanna pick up the sequel to What Einstein Told His Cook (food science junkie).

[Yegolev]

I also wanna pick up the sequel to What Einstein Told His Cook (food science junkie).

Isn't that titled What Einstein Told his Cock?  No?

[voodoolily]

No, it's "Lament for the Death of my Cook". That's a joke, for those of you who were sober in high school.

[Johny Cee]

I can't wait to pick this little gem up:

Hmmm.  I read the book this guy did on the impending on how to prepare for the impending zombie invastion.  Not nearly as amusing as you would think.  Thank god I picked it up at a steep discount.

If humorous grotesque is your thing,  try Stiff: The Curious Life of Human Cadavers.  A journalist looks at the history of human cadavers in a humorous manner.

[Luxor]

I just this minute got A Feast for Crows delivered ( thank you Amazon UK ). I thought they were splitting it up into 2 books, or is that only the paperback edition? This one makes no mention of the fact its part 1 of 2 or the like. Hope its not part 1 as its 753 pages long :)

Got the Jordan Knife of Dreams last week too ( a sucker is me). I was pleasantly surprised to find out it actually advanced the story quite a bit. I reckon it will finish next book as everyoone actually seems to be getting up off their arses and heading for the final battle.

[Merusk]

They did split Feast into 2 books.  That should give you some idea of just how fucking huge it would have been if it were a single volume, and why the publisher had coniptions when they got it.

Hm.. guess I'll have to check-out RASFW-J to see if the new Jordan's really worth buying or not. Spoilers never bothered me much.

[WayAbvPar]

I just this minute got A Feast for Crows delivered ( thank you Amazon UK ). I thought they were splitting it up into 2 books, or is that only the paperback edition? This one makes no mention of the fact its part 1 of 2 or the like. Hope its not part 1 as its 753 pages long :)

Got the Jordan Knife of Dreams last week too ( a sucker is me). I was pleasantly surprised to find out it actually advanced the story quite a bit. I reckon it will finish next book as everyoone actually seems to be getting up off their arses and heading for the final battle.

I need to move to the UK!

AFFC is still listed as a November 8th release by Amazon. However Knife of Dreams looks like it is out! How in the hell did that escape my attention?!??!?

[ClydeJr]

I just this minute got A Feast for Crows delivered ( thank you Amazon UK ). I thought they were splitting it up into 2 books, or is that only the paperback edition? This one makes no mention of the fact its part 1 of 2 or the like. Hope its not part 1 as its 753 pages long :)

There's no Part 1 or 2. Theres just AFFC and A Dance with Dragons to be released in the future.

AFFC is done

And that's why my publishers and I, after much discussion and weighing of alternatives, have decided to split the narrative into two books (printing in microtype on onion skin paper and giving each reader a magnifying glass was not considered feasible, and I was reluctant to make the sort of deep cuts that would have been necessary to get the book down to a more publishable length, which I felt would have compromised the story).

The first plan was simply to lop the text in half. In that scenario, I would finish the last few chapters in as short a length (and time) as possible. That would have produced a story of maybe 1650 to 1700 pages in manuscript, which we would simply have broken into two chunks of roughly equal length and published as A FEAST FOR CROWS, Part One and A FEAST FOR CROWS, Part Two.

We decided not to do that. It was my feeling -- and I pushed hard for this, so if you don't like the solution, blame me, not my publishers -- that we were better off telling all the story for half the characters, rather than half the story for all the characters. Cutting the novel in half would have produced two half-novels; our approach will produce two novels taking place simultaneously, but set hundreds or even thousands of miles apart, and involving different casts of characters (with some overlap).

The division has been done, and it think it works quite well. The upshot is, A FEAST FOR CROWS is now moving into production. It is still a long book, but not too long; about the same size as A GAME OF THRONES. The focus in FEAST will be on Westeros, King's Landing, the riverlands, Dorne, and the Iron Islands. More than that I won't say.

Meanwhile, all the characters and stories removed from FEAST are moving right into A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, which will focus on events in the east and north. All the chapters I have not yet finished and/or begun are moving into DANCE. I think this is very good, if truth be told, since it will give me the room to complete those arcs as I had originally intended, rather than trying to tie them up quickly in a chapter or two so I could deliver the massively late Big FEAST.

[WayAbvPar]

No Jon Snow is bad. No Dany I can live with, but only if Martin puts in more lesbian sex scenes in the next book to make up for it.


In other news, I rushed right out and bought Knife of Dreams. I am such a weak man. The reviews I have seen made mention of the fact that there is actual plot development in this one. We shall see. Do we need a spoiler thread in which to bitch/praise when finished with it?

[Johny Cee]

In other news, I rushed right out and bought Knife of Dreams. I am such a weak man. The reviews I have seen made mention of the fact that there is actual plot development in this one. We shall see. Do we need a spoiler thread in which to bitch/praise when finished with it?

You poor bastard.

I've given up on Jordan.  Couldn't get through his last novel in the series.

If I'm going to work to make myself finish a book,  I might as well work at Perdio Street Station or Lilith or the Gormenghast books.

[Margalis]

Heh, oh, you mean Heinlein.

Funny that he read you Friday, since I think it's one of his more .. umm .. sexually explorative books.

Heinlein is a weird fellow. Some of his books I really liked, like The Puppet Masters for example. Then there are books like Farnham's Freehold in which 24th century black bangers drive around in pimped out flying caddies. (No, I'm not kidding) My father has a very large collection of science fiction books (most of which are original printings, including the orginal hardbound rings trilogy among a ton of others) and he said that Heinlein was in a car accident at hit his head, at which point his writing totally changed.

I have no idea if that particular story is true, but it is true that his writing got very different. His later books have a weird sort of conservative asshole bent to them. Not a religious right type of conservative, but more like a sleazy conservative, like a conservative Bill Maher. They have a fair amount of misogyny and racism in them. (Farnham's Freehold is distasteful in a lot of ways, it's like the book the editors on the Cornell Review would write if they got together to write science fiction)

If you like sci fi I highly reccomend Jack Vance. His writing has that really fabulous educated sounding 50s-60s quality to it, where 20% of the words are words that have fallen out of favor in everyday use. I find reading that sort of stuff fascinating, it really shows you how much times change in 30 years or so. It's almost like reading Old English at times. Of course, the stories are great in the pulpy way.

[Bunk]

I'll second Vance, he's the reason I visit used book stores. I probably have about 25 of his books. I'd mention which books by Heinlein I like, except I recently found the same books on the favorite list of a particular internet celebrity's blog (curse whoever linked that here) and I don't want to go there.

[dusematic]

I just ordered RJ and GRRM's new jobs.  RJ has fallen off a bit, but I think it's easy to get lost in a twelve volume work.  Anyway, I still think he's good, just not the best, and of the caliber he maintained for the first 5 books or so.  At any rate, I feel obligated to stick it out no matter how bad it gets.  Once you're ten books deep, it's a committed relationship with four kids and a mortgage.  There's no conceivable way out.

[Triforcer]

Heh, oh, you mean Heinlein.

Funny that he read you Friday, since I think it's one of his more .. umm .. sexually explorative books.

Heinlein is a weird fellow. Some of his books I really liked, like The Puppet Masters for example. Then there are books like Farnham's Freehold in which 24th century black bangers drive around in pimped out flying caddies. (No, I'm not kidding) My father has a very large collection of science fiction books (most of which are original printings, including the orginal hardbound rings trilogy among a ton of others) and he said that Heinlein was in a car accident at hit his head, at which point his writing totally changed.

I have no idea if that particular story is true, but it is true that his writing got very different. His later books have a weird sort of conservative asshole bent to them. Not a religious right type of conservative, but more like a sleazy conservative, like a conservative Bill Maher. They have a fair amount of misogyny and racism in them. (Farnham's Freehold is distasteful in a lot of ways, it's like the book the editors on the Cornell Review would write if they got together to write science fiction)

If you like sci fi I highly reccomend Jack Vance. His writing has that really fabulous educated sounding 50s-60s quality to it, where 20% of the words are words that have fallen out of favor in everyday use. I find reading that sort of stuff fascinating, it really shows you how much times change in 30 years or so. It's almost like reading Old English at times. Of course, the stories are great in the pulpy way.

I disagree with your characterization of Farnham's Freehold.  Black People Doing Bad Things!=Racism.  The message of the book is that when ANY racial group gets the upper hand, they are generally going to act assholish and racist toward everybody else.  I remember one scene in the book when the suddenly civil-rights conscious whites get upbraided by a black who also time traveled/whatever with them about what HE had to go through in their time period.

[Johny Cee]

I just ordered RJ and GRRM's new jobs.  RJ has fallen off a bit, but I think it's easy to get lost in a twelve volume work.  Anyway, I still think he's good, just not the best, and of the caliber he maintained for the first 5 books or so.  At any rate, I feel obligated to stick it out no matter how bad it gets.  Once you're ten books deep, it's a committed relationship with four kids and a mortgage.  There's no conceivable way out.

Blah.

Read the cover of the new Jordan.  I just have no desire to revisit the series. 

If you're going to follow a bunch of different protagonists in a variety of locations,  you need to make a real and conscious effort to tie up thier stories every volume.  Martin generally does this,  but will leave one or two floating as a cliffhanger.  Jordan regularly leaves ALL his protagonists hanging,  to the point where you need a quick refresher to figure out where they are and what they're doing.  Overall,  would be a much better structure to follow one or a couple through something to a wrap up,  where the next volume you can follow the next. 

Compounding this is the fact that none of the protagonists seem to be doing anything vaguely related.  At least in Martin,  you may follow a bunch of different people,  but they cross paths with and plot against the rest.  Even if you don't get Tyrion's point of view for 200 pages,  you've probably gotten the PoV of people he's in direct confrontation with,  or are plotting against him,  or are simply in the same location.

Jordan is from the school of suddenly throwing up huge threats that seem to have little or no genesis, too.  The whole Perrin subplot that last few novels has been bizarre.  Out of nowhere,  a bunch of the desert folk (forgot the name) just decide to follow a painfully obvious and weak character for no apparent reason than "to give Perrin something to do". 

Not even going to mention the relationships.  His male protagonists seem to be accumulating harems.....

David Drake's ongoing fantasy series ("Lord of the Isles" maybe?)is a good counterpoint.  It's fairly enjoyable light reading.  It's not earthshattering,  or even that good.  The plot in each novel is well told,  and they mesh well.  Issues brought up are generally resolved,  and the series arc is advanced a couple steps.  Even if the characters take off in 5 or 10 different directions.

Erikson's Malazan series likewise has a huge number of protagonists.  But you don't see them every single book.  You get Kruppe (a knockoff of the Mocker/Saltimbanco character from Cook's "Dread Empire", by the way) one novel,  and then maybe he'll show up a couple books on.  Or a major protagonist in one novel only has bit parts in another.  Right now,  I think there are only 1 or 2 characters that have popped up in more than two novels.  And they're usually bit players, as far as the story arc is concerned.

Yes.  Jordan also needs to kill off some people.  Badly.

That's the other route.  People like Cook turn the end of some of their books into abatoirs, tying off the loose ends and shaking up the ranks.

My major problem with Martin is that some of his characters tend to have almost no rational motives for their actions.  There's some thuggery just to be thugish some time.  I mean, seriously, if you're a psychotic serial killer or sadist I'm sure that a regime would have some good uses for you.  I just don't see how some of these people hang out at court,  or are trusted advisors, or whatever their motives are.  The Mountain and Vargo,  Joffrey, etc.

They put Vargo in charge of one of the bigger castles.  I mean... huh? 

[dusematic]

At least there's no way he could screw up the Last Battle right?

[Merusk]

At least there's no way he could screw up the Last Battle right?

If he did, that's just be the cherry on top.  He started the whole series after having 'a vision' of this huge climactic epic battle.  He knows the ending and exactly what's going to happen there, and has since he first started sketching out his notes.  The problem is he just doesn't know how the fuck to get there, it would seem.

[dusematic]

The ship started going down when nearly every main character became separated and started doing their own independent thing.  The pace of the book became neccessarily slowed.  Sure, you can have three chapters of Mat, three of Rand, three of Perrin, three of Egwene/Aes Sedai, three of whoever, and then start the cycle again.  But the book becomes episodic with that many threads to follow; unlike in the first few books when most or all characters traveled together.  And really, who gives a shit about Perrin?  Crazy ass Rand is interesting, crazy ass Mat is interesting...stalwart Perrin?  Not so much.

[Merusk]

The only way Jordan could redeem Perrin as a character is if he were to bitchslap his wife, throw her down and fuck her in the ass while simultaniously forcing her to go down on Berlain.

But that's just me, your requirements may vary.  It'll never happen anyway, because "they don't 'get' women. If only they understood them like <generic male lead>"

[dusematic]

So what are you saying?

[WayAbvPar]

Up to page 172 so far. It seems like things might be coming to a head on a couple of the story lines, but we shall see. My biggest complaint is that are WAY TOO MANY Aes Sedai and Wise Ones; I can't remember who is a Darkfriend and who is just a bitch (hint...all of them are the latter, seemingly). I am having similar problems with the Forsaken (Chosen)- so many have been recycled it is hard to recall who used to be whom.

Jordan would have been far better served to limit the POVs to the top 10 characters in the book instead of a PoV for damned near every fucking named character at one time or another. It is all just such a mishmash at this point. I shouldn't have to take notes to keep track of WTF is going on.

Minor spoiler in black-I was reasonably happy to see the death of a semi-memorable tertiary character in the prologue, just for the sake of something INTERESTING happening before the last chapter.

[dusematic]

Thanks for putting that shit in black.  That makes you almost as considerate as that guy in the smoker thread who kept his jack butts in his coat pocket until he could find a waste bin (gross).

I just found out about this, but there is a recapitulation available at http://www.dragonmount.com/Books/Knife_of_Dreams/ that will get you up to speed.  I plan to read it when my copy arrives.  A refresher course should make things more enjoyable, in the past I've scratched my head in consternation wondering who the hell was who and what the fuck was what.

[WayAbvPar]

Cool! Thanks for the link- just printed out the recap so I can drag it along with me.

[Merusk]

So what are you saying?

That Jordan can't write people or plausible situations, so he may as well just go over the top.


Anywho : Here's the "Official" RASFWR-J FAQ  That's maintained by some of the oldest fans of the series who've posted in the usenet group since the days that Usenet was actualy a viable source of information. If you have a question about the series, that's probably the single best source of information you'll find, outside of hunting Jordan himself down.

[dusematic]

Yeah but that will probably contain spoilers.  The link I posted is specifically designed as a refresher course before you read the latest and greatest. 


And I think you give RJ a little less credit than he deserves.  Yeah, he's fallen off, but he's not shit.

[Dren]

I'll pick of Feast of Crows when in paperback for sure.

I'm just starting on Feist.  Damn, I should have done that earlier.  Almost done with Magician: Apprentice.

It is refreshing to read about people that aren't idiots for once, and when a surprise happens, I'm surprised right along with them.

Listening to the Dark Tower series during my commute. I'm on book 3.

[Murgos]

And I think you give RJ a little less credit than he deserves.  Yeah, he's fallen off, but he's not shit.

Several of the chapters in the last one (A New Spring?) absolutely are shit.  A few of those passages started nowhere, went nowhere and meandered through bad dialogue in a way so horrible it completely fails any attempt at alliteration.

[WayAbvPar]

I'm just starting on Feist.  Damn, I should have done that earlier.  Almost done with Magician: Apprentice.

The Riftwar saga is one of my very favorites. I envy you getting to read it for the first time! Enjoy the ride.

[dusematic]

And I think you give RJ a little less credit than he deserves.  Yeah, he's fallen off, but he's not shit.

Several of the chapters in the last one (A New Spring?) absolutely are shit.  A few of those passages started nowhere, went nowhere and meandered through bad dialogue in a way so horrible it completely fails any attempt at alliteration.

I think the battle scene where Mandragoran takes on seven swordsmen at once is worthwile.

[dusematic]

Also, alliteration?  I didn't know fantasy epics were really just thinly-disguised alliteration contests.  A typical scene from a RJ book is just a few dudes standing around trying to outmanuever each other verbally.  And I can see how that wouldn't appeal to everyone.  But there is a point.  It has some merit.  OH THE INTRIGUE!

[RhyssaFireheart]

I'll pick of Feast of Crows when in paperback for sure.

I'm just starting on Feist.  Damn, I should have done that earlier.  Almost done with Magician: Apprentice.

It is refreshing to read about people that aren't idiots for once, and when a surprise happens, I'm surprised right along with them.

Listening to the Dark Tower series during my commute. I'm on book 3.

I recently just reread the whole Riftwar saga books, and the ones he did with Janny Wurts (Mistress of Empire, etc.)  It had been a while and I'd forgotten the whole story line to them.  Forgot how much I'd enjoyed them the first time around, now I want to pick up all the other books he wrote afterwards in that same world.  Good thing the holidays are coming up - gift cards FTW!

I also completely missed the release of the new Jordan book, and agree with Dusematic - when you are 10 books into a series, you are almost obligated to finish it off, no matter how bad it seems to be getting.  Now I need to reread all the books again though, or at least skim them heavily to see if I can figure out the plot again.  That should take long enough for Knife of Dreams to come out in paperback.  Fucking hardbacks, hate that it takes a year for the paperback to be released.