Continuing from WT: A question about online poker

[WayAbvPar]

I've seen you throw around the term of tiers a lot, exactly what hands constitute Tier 1 hands and Tier 2 hands? I'm guessing Tier one is AA, KK, AK. Is tier 2 KQ, QQ, QJ? If so how does AJ, KJ, AQ fall into the spectrum?

Some links-

Sklansky Hand Groupings


Adbul's Hand Groupings

Alternative Groupings

For a new player, I would recommend Sklansky; his are pretty tight, so they will keep you out of trouble. As you gain experience, you can tinker and play different strategies (as you learn to recognize opponent types).

[UD_Delt]

WayAbvPar gave you some good links.

If you want another read here's another theory of starting hands using Sklanskys as a base: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/

If you want the short version:

(s means suited, no s means offsuit)

Tier 1: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AKs
Tier 2: TT, AQs, AJs, KQs, AK
Tier 3: 99, JTs, QJs, KJs, ATs, AQ
Tier 4: T9s, KQ, 88, QTs, 98s, J9s, AJ, KTs
Tier 5: 77, 87s, Q9s, T8s, KJ, QJ, JT, 76s, 97s, A9s - A2s, 65s
Tier 6: 66, AT, 55, 86s, KT, QT, 54s, K9s, J8s
Tier 7: 44, J9, 43s, 75s, T9, 33, 98, 64s, 22, K8s - K2s, Q8s
Tier 8: 87, 53s, A9, Q9, 76, 42s, 32s, 96s, 85s, J8, J7s, 65, 54, 74s, K9, T8


Until you understand more about position and how to interpret the action around the table stick to the Tier 1 & 2 hands. Tier 3 & 4 can be played (carefully) on the cheap if you start to get bored. Until you have more experience and can recognize dominated hands it's better to just stay away from anything lower than that as those hands can be big trouble for a new player.

[Nebu]

Nice links... Thanks!

The copyright info on the Slansky method page was pretty interesting too.

[Margalis]

I'd much rather have AQ than AJs in a tight game that does't get tons of callers.

[Madman]

Haha...I got called a tight player today. I took it as a compliment even though he meant it as an insult. It happened because I told him he made a bad call by calling T5o from the small blind. I was holding A4o at the time and I made the mistake of checking from the big blind instead of raising. The flop came down A24 rainbow, and we both checked (another mistake on my part). The turn was a Q, he checked and I made a pot sized bet which he called. The river came down a 3 and he bet out, I raised, he calls and walks away with my money with his rivered straight.

He then claimed that luck and smarts wins tournaments, not playing tight. I responded by saying maybe smarts will win because smart people generally play tight. He thought his point about luck was proved when he made a marginal call and managed to hit two pair on the flop. The blinds were 100/200 and he limped in and I raised 400 from the small blind with A7o, big blind folded and he called with 56s. The flop came down 5A6 and I bet out, he raised, I went all in, he called and I went out on the bubble.

It is people like this that I both love and hate. I love them because 8 times out of 10 they will give you money. I hate them because they like to gloat when they actually win money. This guy made so many bad calls it was amazing he won the tournament. Like calling my all in preflop raise with K7o when I was holding pocket 10's or when he reraised an already big raise with his 8's against the other guys K's and he manages to hit his set on the turn.

[Paelos]

I took the advice of playing in a one table sit and go last night as my first tournament experience. I picked a $10+1 entry because it was the one that was readily available. I played it tight, and made them pay when I had solid hands. After 20 minutes, I found myself 2nd in chips with 3 of 9 already eliminated. At that point, I started to play more aggressively, and almost lost, but I was saved by sucking out a straight on the river when i was holding QJo. In the end, I made it into the money and finished third, which paid $18.

So far, so good. I'm up $40 now after two nights and following the advice of the thread. I'm amazed at how many times people in tournaments get what I call "happy feet" and start making big raises when they have low pocket pairs. I burned two guys doing that last night for big pots.

[Madman]

When a few people get eliminated try not to play too aggressively. It is ok to be a little more aggressive, but try to keep playing nice and tight until you get to the money. Then you can play even more aggressively than normal.

Remember you want to play to get first place, but you will settle for second or third.

[Paelos]

Yes, I noticed that when we got to 4 players, things got ugly fast. Often people would raise just so the BB wouldn't limp in, even though they had nothing. At three players, when I had the BB, more often than not they folded before the flop. I think more experience will tell me how to deal with the later game because its a lot different than the opening game. I have a feeling that a lot more hands become acceptable plays, but I'm not sure what floats in that scenario just yet.

[UD_Delt]

4 handed play usually goes as follows:

Big Stack raises on any marginal hand trying to steal blinds.

Middle 2 Stacks will try to avoid the big stack, raise each other and the short stack only when the big stack is not involved.

Short Stack is getting attacked by everyone and is usually moving all-in on any hand they decide to play looking to double through.

Playing as the big stack and the short stack is easy. Playing a middle stack is tougher as you have to pick your spots more carefully. Attacking the short stack is dangerous knowing they'll move all-in on you and usually have enough chips to put a hurt on you. You also have to go over the top of the big stacks raises often enough where they don't run over you. All of this while also trying to manage your chips so you don't end up out on the bubble.

[Madman]

Yeah, UD_Delt hit it pretty much right on the nose about 4 handed play. Which is the reason why I love it. I feel very confident going into the final 4 of a table. I do not mind sitting on the short stack at the point and I will often try to push people off their blinds, including the big stack.

In fact if I am the short stack, then alot of times I will directly attack the big stack just because they don't seem to expect it. Plus if the final people at the table know that you normally only play the top hands then they almost always fold when you push all in as the short stack just because they don't want to let you double up.

In fact just the other day I went from the short stack during 4 handed play to the winner because I was able to push the middle stacks and the big stacks off the blinds by going all in. Thankfully I was doing it on mostly good hands, but I did bluff them out a few times. And when I finally got called, I had the much better hand. I ended up fairly even with the big stack and then just wore him down.

[Madman]

Well, today was the worst day ever. I went on tilt on my very first game after my flopped set got busted by rivered flush. Then I couldn't stop myself, I knew I should have stopped playing, but I just couldn't bring myself do to it. I lost just under $200 playing basically nothing but SnGs with $30 going to a large multitable tourney. I ended up losing 13 straight SnG's and never finished higher than 5th.

Some of it was bad plays by me, some of it was being cold decked. The truth of the matter was that I just couldn't catch any cards. I would see the flop with the best hand and have to fold when I didn't hit anything and knew someone else did. I could barely catch a flush or straight draw, but everyone else would hit them with shocking regularity. I think I won maybe 2 or 3 coinflips all day. If I went in with A8 as a short stack, someone would call me with A6 and pull a 6 on the flop (in fact that happened at least 3 times that I remember).  It was totally awful, people were calling me with crap and pulling out miracles. I lost sets to a rivered straight at least 5 times, flushes to rivered boats, two pair to rivered straights. If I had AK, I would lose to a small pocket pair. If I had a small pocket pair, I would lose to someone who had AK and flopped an A or K. If I had a better pocket pair, they would catch their set. I really couldn't believe it.

I know that I made some bad moves as well, but I honestly don't think I made all that many of them. I wasn't playing too loose or too tight, in fact for the most part I was playing my normal game. I am going to take a break from poker for a little while because of this day. I am sure I will eventually deposit another $100 (haha, probably by the end of the weekend) into stars and try again, but right now I am really frustrated.

[Pig Destroyer]

I just had a big assraping happen to me on Stars:

PokerStars Game #482659380:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2004/06/12 - 05:48:12 (ET)
Table 'Jessonda' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: elrond1234 ($4.15 in chips)
Seat 2: buddah8161 ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: SLAMMONE ($5 in chips)
Seat 4: pwillc ($11.45 in chips)
Seat 5: laceratedsky ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 6: skinney ($38 in chips)
Seat 7: Hustler Sigs ($18.95 in chips)
Seat 8: BiggieBig ($9.25 in chips)
Seat 9: orion2527 ($1.50 in chips)
elrond1234: posts small blind $0.10
buddah8161: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to laceratedsky [Qc Qs]
SLAMMONE: folds
pwillc: folds
laceratedsky: raises $1.25 to $1.50
skinney: folds
Hustler Sigs: folds
BiggieBig: folds
orion2527: folds
elrond1234: folds
buddah8161: raises $1.25 to $2.75
laceratedsky: calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [Jd 8d Th]
buddah8161: bets $5
laceratedsky: calls $5
*** TURN *** [Jd 8d Th] [Jh]
buddah8161: bets $5
laceratedsky: calls $5
*** RIVER *** [Jd 8d Th Jh] [Jc]
buddah8161: bets $12
laceratedsky: calls $12 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
buddah8161: shows [Ks Kd] (a full house, Jacks full of Kings)
laceratedsky: mucks hand
buddah8161 collected $47.20 from  pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $49.60 | Rake $2.40
Board [Jd 8d Th Jh Jc]
Seat 1: elrond1234 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: buddah8161 (big blind) showed [Ks Kd] and won ($47.20) with a full house, Jacks full of Kings
Seat 3: SLAMMONE folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: pwillc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: laceratedsky mucked [Qc Qs] - a full house, Jacks full of Queens
Seat 6: skinney folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Hustler Sigs folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: BiggieBig folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: orion2527 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Oh the pain.  The bloody pain.

I should have gotten away from this hand on the Flop, I just couldn't make myself do it.

[UD_Delt]

That's a hard hand to fold on that flop. I probably would have folded when the second Jack hit on the turn though.

A better player than I would probably fold on the flop given the following reasoning:

Assuming the guy played a semi-normal game his pre-flop reraise tells you he has a big hand. After the pot-sized bet on the flop I would narrow his hand down to either A's, K's, the other 2 Q's, J's, 10's or AKd.

There's only one hand in that grouping that you are currently beating and one hand that you are tied with. The odds in this case say to fold.

[Paelos]

I learned a $100 lesson this weekend. Don't play while you have been drinking/drunk. I got on tilt and lost my original entry. Lesson learned though, because I ended up placed 2nd and 1st in the next two sit and go's, but I'm still way down. I just have to suck it up and play the way I know I'm supposed to instead of doing stupid things and not walking away. I was first out in one tournament by going all in with suited AK and getting beat by a guy with pocket aces. That's when I went to bed. It was like a kick to the groin with a golf shoe.

Anyhow, sounds like this weekend was a little painful for a couple of us. The Stars must have been lined up wrong. I'm chalking the original $100 up to newbie jitters and playing from ground zero again to keep my sanity in check.

[Madman]

Yeah, never play drunk. I just can't play cards while drunk and it doesn't matter if it is blackjack at the casinos, hold em on the net or just a friendly mixed house game. I just can't concentrate on the cards and end up doing stupid things.

I did find out a little over a week ago that I both can and can't play while stoned. It was weird, one day I was stoned and I couldn't play, the next day I was stoned and I was in the money in like 5-6 straight SnG's. Maybe it just depends on how stoned I feel and what I feel like doing. Maybe I just couldn't get any cards on the day I didn't play well, but I think that I mainly couldn't concentrate enough to make the right moves. The next day when I got stoned, I couldn't do anything BUT concentrate on the cards and I was making all sorts of correct moves. Plus I was really really relaxed that day so I didn't get upset if I got pushed off a good hand or got sucked out, I just rolled with it and moved to the next hand.

As for my major tilt, it was awful and I still haven't bought back in yet. Just as an example of both my tilt and the fact that I couldn't catch any cards, I will tell you what happened in one of the SnG's. It was already pretty late in my bad run and by this point I had decided that I was either going to get back to my original buy in or lose it all, so I wasn't completely concerned if I made the correct move. Anyway, it was the first hand of an SnG and I am on the button, I pick up AKo and everyone folds around to me. Now I am thinking to myself 'I am in the midst of a bad run, I don't really care what happens and I want to see just how bad my luck really is today', so I push all in. I figured that both blinds would fold seeing as it is the first hand of the SnG and if one of them didn't then I would either quickly double up, or more than likely prove my luck was horrible that day. Sure enough the small blind folds, then the big blind sits there and thinks about it for a little bit and then he calls me. He flips over a pair of 5's and the flop comes down with a blank and a pair of 4's, the turn and river don't help me at all and I go out on the very first hand. That is pretty much how every coinflip went for me that day.

And before anyone starts in on how it was stupid to go all in on the first hand, I already know that. I didn't care at that point whether it was stupid or not, I just wanted to see what would happen.

[Abagadro]

Pig,

That is indeed a tough beat, but if you are tied to your queens, you need to at least raise him on that flop (if not push) as you have the draw to the straight and your queens may in fact be good  (I could put him on AA, KK, AK, AQ, AJ, JJ, half of which you are beating and all of them you have outs against).  You will also get that overpair to fold a good chunk of the time if he doesn't have a diamond.  Just calling down is no good. I'd raise it another 5, fold to a reraise and if called either bet big on the turn or go for the free river depending upon the player, the turn card and his action.  Calling it down all the way is way too weak.

(I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know).


BTW, I'm pretty much exclusively playing 1-table SnGs at Party these days (20 & 30) as doing very well. Up over $1200 in the last week and a half.  I play under AleHonde if you see me there say hello.

Seems like many of you play at Stars. I transferred over some of my roll to try it out because of the big 25% bonus they advertised and couldn't win to save my life. Not a huge sample, but I got frustrated and am back at Party now.

[Pig Destroyer]

For me Stars is just a micro limit heaven for learning new games.  Omaha 8 and Stud 8.  I much prefer their Tournament structure, and really dig their low buy in 2 table Sit n Gos.  Party is where the money is, Stars is where you improve your tournament game.

Ab, you need to give me some Sit N Go lessons.  For whatever reason, I cannot seem to win consistently even at the $5 + $1 level at Party.  I'll definitely be looking for you in the next couple of weeks so I can observe your play a bit.

In other news, I have been cleaning up in the $25 buy in NL Ring Games at Party.  I usually only play one table because I feel I need to concentrate more with No Limit.  I won $60 at one table yesterday in about 90 minutes.  I know it won't last, but I am in desperation mode to increase my bankroll before Vegas.

As always you can check my progres at my blog, http://www.wtfman.com/poker

[Abagadro]

Just put AleHonde on your buddy list and search for me. I'd be happy to talk to you about my play. I'm no expert, but I've been doing pretty well, at least at the Party SnG tables. I'm in the money around 43 percent with a pretty good percentage of firsts.

The 1-table touney forum on twoplustwo.com is pretty good too. Search for a couple of posts called "winning the 10+1 at Party." Has some golden info in there that should be applicable to PStars as well.

[Abagadro]

This game is funny. Here are two consecutive hands in a $20 SnG with 4 players remaining:

***** Hand History for Game 675870760 *****
Doc finished in fifth place.
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 4197121)  - Tue Jun 15 00:08:39 EDT 2004
Table Table  14009 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 4: monmouth (505)
Seat 6: snapj (1970)
Seat 8: arodsgay (4513)
Seat 9: AleHonde (1012)
monmouth  posts small blind (100)
snapj  posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AleHonde [ Th, Td ]
arodsgay folds.
AleHonde: nh
arodsgay: ty
AleHonde raises (1012) to 1012
AleHonde is all-In.
monmouth calls (405)
monmouth is all-In.
snapj folds.
** Dealing Flop ** :  [ Jh, Js, Kc ]
** Dealing Turn ** :  [ Kh ]
** Dealing River ** :  [ Ad ]
Creating Main Pot with $1210 with monmouth
Creating Side Pot 1 with $507 with AleHonde
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1210 | Side Pot 1: 507
Board: [ Jh Js Kc Kh Ad  ]
monmouth balance 605, bet 505, collected 605, net +100 [ 8c 8d ] [ two pairs, kings and jacks -- Ad,Kc,Kh,Jh,Js ]
snapj balance 1770, lost 200 (folded)
arodsgay balance 4513, didn't bet (folded)
AleHonde balance 1112, bet 1012, collected 1112, net +100 [ Th Td ] [ two pairs, kings and jacks -- Ad,Kc,Kh,Jh,Js ]

***** Hand History for Game 675872120 *****
AleHonde: gah
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 4197121)  - Tue Jun 15 00:09:07 EDT 2004
Table Table  14009 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 4: monmouth (605)
Seat 6: snapj (1770)
Seat 8: arodsgay (4513)
Seat 9: AleHonde (1112)
snapj  posts small blind (100)
arodsgay  posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AleHonde [ As, Ac ]
AleHonde raises (1112) to 1112
AleHonde is all-In.
monmouth folds.
snapj folds.
arodsgay calls (912)
** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 8c, Jd, Tc ]
** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 3c ]
** Dealing River ** :  [ 6d ]
AleHonde: bah
Creating Main Pot with $2324 with AleHonde
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2324 |
Board: [ 8c Jd Tc 3c 6d  ]
monmouth balance 605, didn't bet (folded)
snapj balance 1670, lost 100 (folded)
arodsgay balance 5725, bet 1112, collected 2324, net +1212 [ Ts Th ] [ three of a kind, tens -- Jd,Ts,Th,Tc,8c ]
AleHonde balance 0, lost 1112 [ As Ac ] [ a pair of aces -- As,Ac,Jd,Tc,8c ]

[Pig Destroyer]

Actually, that post you mentioned on 2+2 I have marked as a favorite.  I've only played a couple Sit N Gos since reading it, but I did finish second in one.

I get on the bubble all the time, but it always seems like I do it with a short stack, and miss opportunities to double up, so I am blinded off like a chump :(  It seems as though most of my bigger wins in tournament play come from playing a BB hand cheaply and catching the flop.

Also, in the mail today I got Super System and Championship No-Limit and Pot-Limit Hold 'em.  Hopefully they will help me out a bit.

[UD_Delt]

I also have a problem with Party's format for single table S&Go's but I do really well with them at Stars. I think at Party I was only around 35% in the money and at Stars I'm around 48% in the money at the $5.50's and 43% in the money at the $10+1's. I still need to play more of the $11's though as my sample size is still pretty small (around 25). I've played over 100 of the $5.50's though so I'm pretty confident with those results.

I play them both about the same but with how fast the blinds increase at Party and the shorter stacks you have no room to maneuver at the higher levels. I typically only play Tier 1 & 2 hands until the 4th level (50/100) but when I get those hands I play them very aggressively.

Most of the time that usually means I fold my way into the 4th level. At Stars that leaves me with about $1200-$1300 in chips which is more than enough to start stealing blinds and moving people off of hands. By this time I've also established a very tight image. I can usually manage to work my stack up regardless of what cards I get by picking the right times to make large bluffs and push people off their hands.

At Party you are usually left with $500-$600 which means you are going to get called down by the bigger stacks much more often. With that short of a stack, image really doesn't matter because most of the time they're getting the right odds to call the short stack anyway. This means you have to catch cards in the later levels in order to make it into the money. If you don't get any of your hands to hold up you're out before the money.

I have noticed that the players at Party are much worse than Stars but I still haven't figured out how to beat them consistently which is just sad....

[Abagadro]

I've found that playing stack size at Party  is the key. You almost don't need to look at your cards sometimes. Use the first 3 levels to really focus in on your opponants' tendencies and pound premium hands. Hopefully you will have a medium/large stack when the blinds go up because of morons calling you with crap, but even with a small stack, you can really do damage if you have identified tendencies and can bet accordingly.  I make most of my money in these games stealing/pushing people around, even with a smallish to medium stack.  Bubble play is the key and being ultra agressive will usually get you in the money. You bust out 4th a lot, but if you don't, you take control of the table and finish first a good chunk of the time.

[Paelos]

I've decided that I'm going to keep a much more controlled focus on my sit n' go play, so I've started keeping a journal now on my take, playstyle, and general demeanor. I also keep tabs of big hands and key players so that I know how to get away with more and play better. It's helping me a lot. I finished 1, 2, 4, 4, and 5 in my last 5 tourneys, which netted me a $10 up for the night. I find that keeping tabs helps keep me focused on improving my game instead of just half-assing it.

[Pig Destroyer]

Started readin Super System yesterday.  Doyle, ever so eloquently, convinced me that I am a big pussy.  So I got aggressive today, betting out pot sized bets instead of min raising, taking stabs at pots when I think no one has anything.  It went pretty well.  I placed 1st and 3rd out of 4 Sit n Gos I played today.  Which netted me about $13 in winnings today.  

I played 2 $5 + $1 Sit n Gos on Party and 2 $5 + $.50 Sit n Gos on Stars.  I did terribly on Stars, one of the tournies was a 2 table SnG and I busted out in 15th on a terrible beat.  The other one I got pot comitted when I essentially had nothing and got beat.

Party players are just plain terrible, I think it's easier to push them around due to the small stack sizes.  When 150 Pot bet is 1/8th of your stack people think twice about calling and you can pick up some pretty decent pots just by being aggressive.  It's amazing.  Of course this play can also backfire and put you in an inescapable hole.

[Margalis]

The advice in Championship Pot-Limit and No-Limit is basically bet at least the pot or don't bother.

I don't get when people make minimum bets into a large pot. There are usually three possibilities:

1. They have nothing, and hope you will fold. But the bet is too small to fold to.

2. They have something and are "suckering" you...but for a bet that small being "suckered" by it barely matters.

3. They are faking weakness so you will re-raise them.

The third is pretty rare.

After the flop if I am going to bet I basically always bet about the pot. On the turn and river I may slow down though.

[WayAbvPar]

So I got aggressive today, betting out pot sized bets instead of min raising, taking stabs at pots when I think no one has anything.

Haven't read Super/System yet (just got my autographed copy of WLLH from PokerStars last night...woohoo!). but somewhere along the line I developed this playstyle.  A friend of mine who was reading S/S a couple of weeks ago paid me a compliment by saying that I played A LOT like Doyle espouses. Unfortunately, it only works against decent players (good players will occasionally reraise you back to see how you react), or bad weak-tight players. The average jackass at Party will call you down with their 3rd pair, bad kicker and beat your bluff a lot. I have found that it is better to value bet your good hands at Party to the max and to only bluff at pots when you have a good read on the table and realize that the pot is there for the taking.

[Abagadro]

I have found that it is better to value bet your good hands at Party to the max and to only bluff at pots when you have a good read on the table and realize that the pot is there for the taking.

This is very good advice. To bluff you need few players, a relatively small pot, be first in and bet at least the pot.  (This doesn't apply once you get down to the bubble as you need to do it a lot more).

Value betting will get you much further against the dopes than bluffing.

[Pig Destroyer]

Just wanted to let you guys know, there is a Poker Forum on http://www.wtfman.com now.  Figured there would be some interest as we've had this thread running off and  on for about a year.

The forums are at http://forums.wtfman.com.

[WayAbvPar]

Necro post alert! Just wanted to see who was still playing, and how things are going. We really should set up a time for us all to sit down in a low buy in SnG on Pokerstars one of these days.

I also wanted to pass along the following hand for sheer amazement.

Early in a $5.50 SnG- I have won several small pots, so am sitting at about t2750 with the blinds at 15/30. It is folded to me in middle position. I have Ad Td, so I raise it to 90, and get 2 callers (button and BB). Flop is 7d 8d 9d. As I try to figure out how to play it to get the most cash, BB goes all in for 560 ahead of me. I hem and haw for a minute (praying I can get the button to come along), and reluctantly call. BB turns over Tc 7c for bottom pair! Turn Th. River Ts, and I lose a big pot.

Just for edification- I ran this through twodimes.net, and I am should win this hand 97.58% of the time. For the record, I ended up in a tailspin and was the first to wash out of the final table (2 table SnG). Bugger me with a fish fork.

[Margalis]

I'm currently in the middle of an experiment - grinding my way up from $1. Right now I have about $30. It's tedious as hell but good for solidifying my game.

[Paelos]

I've pretty much given up online play after a series of ups and downs. In reality the game takes a lot more effort and time than I'm willing to put into it. I still play live games for fun, but not for money anymore.

[Abagadro]

I'm still at it. After an amazing December (top 25 MTT player on Empire for the month, inluding coming within one hand of a WSOP seat) and absolutely horrible January (1 cash) I have quit playing multi-table tourneys.  The all or nothing deal was too frustrating.

I've worked my bankroll up to where I am now 3 or 4 tabling 10/20 full ring games.  If I can hack it up here for another month I am going to jump up to the 15/30 games which is where the real money is.

[Margalis]

Why is 15/30 a big step up from 10/20. Different breed of player?

I almost won a place at the WPT Aruba at PokerStars. Man it sucks to get that far and then miss.

[Abagadro]

It's not a big step, but I'm very conservative with my bankroll requirements because I want to avoid risk of ruin. I'm currently playing with a 650BB bankroll and still don't feel all that comfortable.  I've also found that agression goes up more than proportionally to the limits (i.e. 10/20 is about 3x as agressive as 5/10) so I want to get my uber-agressive game into shape. You really don't have the 7 fish seeing the flop for 1 bet and calling down with crap type games up there like you do in the lower limits.  I'm currently pulling 1.7BB/100 hands in the 10/20. If I can get that up to at least 2 I will feel better about moving up.

[WayAbvPar]

At what level did you start your bankroll? Have you worked it up from penny ante stuff, or did you dump a couple grand in to start?