Continuing from WT: A question about online poker

[UD_Delt]

Fuck have I become a fish. I have read quite a bit now and have a fair understanding of the game but lately it seems like as soon as I sit down it all flies out of my head and I play like a fucking idiot. I either need to quit or figure out how to apply what I know to my game a lot better....

Examples:

Hand #1

$1/$2 - I'm dealt AA on the button. It's capped before ever getting to me w. 6 people in ($24 pot).

Flop comes Q-10-6 rainbow.

Check, Check, Bet, Raise, Re-Raise, I cap, Fold, Fold, First Bettor Folds, Call, Call. ($37 pot)

Turn Q

At this point I should accept that I'm now beaten and get out. Instead I think I'll give it a shot and rep the Q (I know wtf am I thinking). So I bet. Raise, Re-Raise. $4 more back to me. Now I can fold right? Nope, like an idiot now I have to call in case I can hit my 2 outer but of course given all the preflop raising the chances of any A left in the deck is slim to none. Other player calls.

River is a blank.

First player bets and we both call, with over $60 in the pot why not throw away another $2. First player has pocket 10's for the boat, other player has AQ for the trip Q's and I of course am in last place with my fucking A's. Fuck am I an idiot.


Hand #2

I'm dealt QQ in late position. It folds around to me and I raise. SB and BB both call. Flop comes all unders w/ two diamonds. It checks around to me and I bet. SB calls, BB raises. Hmm... I should recognize the free card/forcing the odds play here since I use it myself but of course I'm a fucking idiot. I just call.

Turn is a blank.

Check, Check, and I Check. What in the fuck am I doing giving away a free card. Fuck, Fuck, Fuck... Maybe I should just let my cat play with the mouse, she'd probably play better than I can.

River is an offsuit A.

SB checks, BB bets, I call, SB calls. BB has Ax of diamonds and wins.


Damn do I suck at playing poker. It seems like the more I read the worse I do. When I first started the only knowledge I had was a rank of starting cards I found online. Somehow with that knowledge I ran my bankroll up to $1200 in profit. Since, then I've read extensively online, gotten poker tracker, and read Lee Jones & Gary Carson's books and I've lost $300.

I apologize for the long self-loathing rant but I just needed to vent...

[Murgos]

My best advice for you afer those two hand histories?

It costs nothing to fold.  You can do it at anytime and it's free.  Money already in the pot is not yours, you gave it up when you put it in there, don't chase it.

AA is great but your still only going to win with it slightly more than 1/3rd of the time.  The skill comes from knowing when it's not that time and saving as much of whats left of your cash as you can.

Also, either raise or fold (and again, folding is free), if it's good enough to call with it's probably good enough to bet with.  If you wouldn't bet with it you probably shouldn't still be in the pot.

[Rasix]

I've been playing like complete ass since I took about a 2 week break to deal with school issues and get married.  I've been making some very dumb calls and sometimes just spacing out (this might be due to me mostly playing late at night).  For instance I hit a straight on a river and merely just checked not seeing I had the straight. The hand was pretty much a check fest as we both had crap, but still, I might have gotten a little more off that hand.

As bad as I've been playing, I'm still in my out of money, in money pattern. One I've yet to break in my last 20 or so sit n gos.  It's just fucking wierd, first tourney is always out of money and second is always in no matter how bad I play it seems. I know I can play better than I have, I'm getting better at springing traps but I'm still shit at sniffing them out.  People slow playing the nuts has just been murder on me lately.

Anyhow, first tourney last night I was playing short stacked through most of it and went out on a dumb call.  Second tournament I wanted to play with a chip lead and I got my chance on a really really funny hand (first hand of the tournment).

Play close attention to the smack talk.

*********** # 95 **************
PokerStars Game #407548171: Tournament #1494895, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2004/04/27 - 02:31:45 (ET)
Table '1494895 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: locstabrandt (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: whatupdoyle (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: thomase12 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: map1 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: ninfzkillah (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: tumbleweed (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: stillfloats (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: WITCH2 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: looterman (1500 in chips)
whatupdoyle: posts small blind 10
thomase12: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thomase12 [Kc Ks]
map1: folds
ninfzkillah: folds
tumbleweed: calls 20
stillfloats: raises 40 to 60
WITCH2: folds
looterman: calls 60
stillfloats said, "hi"
locstabrandt: folds
whatupdoyle: folds
stillfloats said, "i'm here to take your money"
thomase12: raises 140 to 200
tumbleweed: folds
stillfloats said, "think of me like the whammy"
stillfloats: raises 220 to 420
WITCH2 said, "be my guest... ;o)"
looterman: folds
thomase12: raises 1080 to 1500 and is all-in
stillfloats: calls 1080 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [5c 3h 7h]
stillfloats said, "chit"
*** TURN *** [5c 3h 7h] [4d]
*** RIVER *** [5c 3h 7h 4d] [Jd]
looterman said, "whammy huh?"
ninfzkillah said, "LOL"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thomase12: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
stillfloats: shows [Qc Qd] (a pair of Queens)
thomase12 collected 3090 from  pot
ninfzkillah said, "peaace whammy"
thomase12 said, "no whammies"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3090 | Rake 0
Board [5c 3h 7h 4d Jd]
Seat 1: locstabrandt (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: whatupdoyle (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: thomase12 (big blind) showed [Kc Ks] and won (3090) with a pair of Kings
Seat 4: map1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ninfzkillah folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: tumbleweed folded before Flop
Seat 7: stillfloats showed [Qc Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 8: WITCH2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: looterman folded before Flop

stillfloats [observer] said, "that wasn't quite how i pictured it"

In the back of my mind, I just wanted to goad someone into all in to practice playing ahead.  With the way the guy was talking I knew if he had AA he would have bet a little stronger or immediately went all in the second I raised.  

I played pretty decent throughout but played this next hand very badly, probably because sometimes I space out and forget how flushes are rated.

PokerStars Game #407601283: Tournament #1494895, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2004/04/27 - 03:23:48 (ET)
Table '1494895 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: whatupdoyle (2930 in chips)
Seat 3: thomase12 (6220 in chips)
Seat 8: WITCH2 (4350 in chips)
thomase12: posts small blind 100
WITCH2: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thomase12 [8c 6c]
whatupdoyle: folds
thomase12: calls 100
WITCH2: checks
*** FLOP *** [Js Tc Ts]
thomase12: checks
WITCH2: checks
*** TURN *** [Js Tc Ts] [5c]
thomase12: checks
WITCH2: checks
*** RIVER *** [Js Tc Ts 5c] [Ac]
thomase12: bets 200
WITCH2: raises 400 to 600
thomase12: raises 4400 to 5000
WITCH2: calls 3550 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thomase12: shows [8c 6c] (a flush, Ace high)
WITCH2: shows [9c 2c] (a flush, Ace high - Nine higher)
WITCH2 collected 8700 from  pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8700 | Rake 0
Board [Js Tc Ts 5c Ac]
Seat 2: whatupdoyle (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: thomase12 (small blind) showed [8c 6c] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Seat 8: WITCH2 (big blind) showed [9c 2c] and won (8700) with a flush, Ace high

All I saw was Ace high flush. I didn't really think that his 9 would be a difference splitter. Bad play I think on both our parts and I guess ignorance on mine (anyone mind lowering themselves and explaining the flush rankings to me here).  

That last hand pretty much killed me for that tournament, althought honestly I think I should have and could have won. Both witch and doyle went all in a lot of times and got some lucky draws. I think at one point witch went all in 3 times in a row vs. doyle and won each time.

A last parting observation, sometimes I really hate playing late at night.  You're almost assured you get one person that wants to go to sleep and decides to go all in on crap and dump their chips on someone.  This really fucks up a tournment and screwed things up royally for me 2 nights ago when the recipient of the chip gift was pretty good and it was hard to make up the ground.

[UD_Delt]

anyone mind lowering themselves and explaining the flush rankings to me here

Goes by the single highest card to the flush in your hand vs. the single highest card to the flush in your opponents hand.

Examples:

---------------------------------------------
P1: Ac2c
P2: Kc3c

Board: QcJc8cxx

P1 wins with the A high flush.
---------------------------------------------
P1: 8c9c
P2: 6c7c

Board: AcKc2cxx

P1 wins again with AcKc9c8c2c
P2 has                  AcKc7c6c2c

It goes to the highest of the first non-shared cards.
---------------------------------------------

P1: 10c9h
P2: Jc10h

Board: AcKcQc3cX

P2 wins with AcKcQcJc3c
P1 has         AcKcQc10c3c
---------------------------------------------

P1: x2c
P2: x3c

Board: AcKc10c8c4c

Split because the board plays as neither has a club higher than the 4c so all cards are shared.
---------------------------------------------

[Anger]

I'm thinking it's about time I went out and picked up a new/different poker book.  I've currently got Lee Jones' Winning Low Limit Hold'Em and also Ken Warren Teaches Texas Hold'Em, so I need suggestions on my next book.  Should it be The Theory of Poker or....

What books have helped you guys the most?

Also, I seem to continually read that Party Poker has "easier" games than say, PokerStars...but I happen to be a big fan of the PokerStars client, and so choose to play there.  Is this Party Poker thing Fact or Myth?

[UD_Delt]

Well I had yet another horrible night. I again posted a pretty big loss but I think I played much better. Please take a look and critique these hands and see if I there is somewhere I can improve.

***** Hand History for Game 557946883 *****
1/2 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (LIMIT)  - TUE APR 27 21:39:44 EDT 2004
Table Table  10721 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: UD_Delt ( $63.75)
Seat 2: Orsino ( $100)
Seat 3: miles123 ( $73)
Seat 4: khaithedog ( $34.50)
Seat 5: johnnyO819 ( $97.75)
Seat 6: Foreseen80 ( $13.50)
khaithedog  posts small blind (0.50)
johnnyO819  posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to UD_Delt [ Td, Tc ]
Foreseen80 calls (1)
UD_Delt calls (1)
Orsino folds.
miles123 folds.
khaithedog folds.
johnnyO819 raises (1) to 2
Foreseen80 calls (1)
UD_Delt calls (1)
** Dealing Flop ** :  [ Ad, Ts, 8d ]
johnnyO819 checks.
Foreseen80 checks.
UD_Delt bets (1)
johnnyO819 calls (1)
Foreseen80 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** :  [ Qh ]
johnnyO819 checks.
UD_Delt bets (2)
johnnyO819 raises (4) to 4
UD_Delt raises (4) to 6
johnnyO819 calls (2)
** Dealing River ** :  [ 8h ]
johnnyO819 checks.
UD_Delt bets (2)
johnnyO819 raises (4) to 4
UD_Delt raises (4) to 6
johnnyO819 raises (4) to 8
UD_Delt calls (2)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $35.50 | Rake: $1
Board: [ Ad Ts 8d Qh 8h  ]
UD_Delt balance $46.75, lost $17 [ Td Tc ] [ a full house, Tens full of eights -- Td,Tc,Ts,8d,8h ]
Orsino balance $100, didn't bet (folded)
miles123 balance $73, didn't bet (folded)
khaithedog balance $34, lost $0.50 (folded)
johnnyO819 balance $116.25, bet $17, collected $35.50, net +$18.50 [ As Ah ] [ a full house, Aces full of eights -- As,Ah,Ad,8d,8h ]
Foreseen80 balance $11.50, lost $2 (folded)

Is there any way to not lose your ass when you have a hidden fullhouse?

***** Hand History for Game 558108564 *****
1/2 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (LIMIT)  - TUE APR 27 22:34:01 EDT 2004
Table Table  11306 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: coaskis ( $157.50)
Seat 2: UD_Delt ( $49.38)
Seat 3: kodjac ( $7.50)
Seat 4: playerjim ( $10.87)
Seat 5: diana51 ( $24.75)
Seat 6: crp112 ( $29.75)
UD_Delt  posts small blind (0.50)
kodjac  posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to UD_Delt [ 5h, 5c ]
playerjim calls (1)
diana51 calls (1)
crp112 folds.
coaskis folds.
UD_Delt calls (0.50)
kodjac raises (1) to 2
playerjim calls (1)
diana51 calls (1)
UD_Delt calls (1)
** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 2h, 5d, 7d ]
UD_Delt bets (1)
kodjac raises (2) to 2
playerjim calls (2)
diana51 folds.
UD_Delt raises (2) to 3
kodjac calls (1)
playerjim calls (1)
** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 8s ]
UD_Delt bets (2)
kodjac calls (2)
playerjim calls (2)
** Dealing River ** :  [ 3d ]
UD_Delt bets (2)
kodjac calls (0.50)
kodjac is all-In.
playerjim raises (3.87) to 3.87
playerjim is all-In.
UD_Delt calls (1.87)
Creating Main Pot with $23.50 with kodjac
Creating Side Pot 1 with $6.74 with playerjim
** Summary **
Main Pot: $23.50 | Side Pot 1: $6.74 |  | Rake: $1
Board: [ 2h 5d 7d 8s 3d  ]
coaskis balance $157.50, didn't bet (folded)
UD_Delt balance $38.51, lost $10.87 [ 5h 5c ] [ three of a kind, fives -- 8s,7d,5h,5c,5d ]
kodjac balance $0, lost $7.50 [ As Td ] [ high card ace -- As,Td,8s,7d,5d ]
playerjim balance $30.24, bet $10.87, collected $30.24, net +$19.37 [ 8d Kd ] [ a flush, king high -- Kd,8d,7d,5d,3d ]
diana51 balance $22.75, lost $2 (folded)
crp112 balance $29.75, didn't bet (folded)

Again not sure how you can avoid losing on a set when a flush gets filled... It really sucks that it was PlayerJim that pulled it out too. I was thinking the whole time I was going to finally get a piece of him.

Check out this hand for amusements sake, I lost a bit but I think I made the right move...

***** Hand History for Game 558178038 *****
1/2 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (LIMIT)  - TUE APR 27 22:56:44 EDT 2004
Table Table  11306 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: coaskis ( $153.75)
Seat 2: UD_Delt ( $71.76)
Seat 3: Woofdog ( $50)
Seat 4: playerjim ( $30.36)
Seat 5: diana51 ( $16.75)
Seat 6: crp112 ( $43)
UD_Delt  posts small blind (0.50)
Woofdog  posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to UD_Delt [ Th, 7h ]
playerjim calls (1)
diana51 calls (1)
crp112 calls (1)
coaskis folds.
UD_Delt calls (0.50)
Woofdog raises (1) to 2
playerjim calls (1)
diana51 calls (1)
crp112 calls (1)
UD_Delt calls (1)
** Dealing Flop ** :  [ Tc, Qs, 7c ]
UD_Delt bets (1)
Woofdog raises (2) to 2
playerjim calls (2)
diana51 calls (2)
crp112 calls (2)
UD_Delt raises (2) to 3
Woofdog raises (2) to 4
playerjim calls (2)
diana51 calls (2)
crp112 calls (2)
UD_Delt calls (1)
** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 9s ]
UD_Delt checks.
Woofdog bets (2)
playerjim calls (2)
diana51 calls (2)
crp112 raises (4) to 4
UD_Delt folds.
Woofdog calls (2)
playerjim calls (2)
diana51 calls (2)
** Dealing River ** :  [ 5c ]
Woofdog bets (2)
playerjim calls (2)
diana51 folds.
crp112 calls (2)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $51 | Rake: $1
Board: [ Tc Qs 7c 9s 5c  ]
coaskis balance $153.75, didn't bet (folded)
UD_Delt balance $65.76, lost $6 (folded)
Woofdog balance $89, bet $12, collected $51, net +$39 [ 3c Qc ] [ a flush, queen high -- Qc,Tc,7c,5c,3c ]
playerjim balance $18.36, lost $12 [ 9d 6d ] [ a pair of nines -- Qs,Tc,9d,9s,7c ]
diana51 balance $6.75, lost $10 (folded)
crp112 balance $31, lost $12 [ Jc Ks ] [ a straight, nine to king -- Ks,Qs,Jc,Tc,9s ]

My other big loss came from a different maniac. This guy had $80 when I say down and left once he got down to the felt. Of course he took my money and redistributed it to the rest of the table. I need to constantly repeat to myself, "even a maniac can catch cards" when I'm up against these guys.

***** Hand History for Game 557776893 *****
1/2 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (LIMIT)  - TUE APR 27 20:38:13 EDT 2004
Table Table  11324 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: Foreseen80 ( $25.75)
Seat 2: LuckyRuss ( $67.75)
Seat 3: kickrkevin ( $112)
Seat 4: zubiac ( $40)
Seat 5: Fooksie ( $109)
Seat 6: UD_Delt ( $29.50)
Fooksie  posts small blind (0.50)
UD_Delt  posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to UD_Delt [ Kc, Jd ]
Foreseen80 folds.
LuckyRuss calls (1)
kickrkevin folds.
zubiac folds.
Fooksie calls (0.50)
UD_Delt checks.
** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 7s, 7c, 2d ]
Fooksie checks.
UD_Delt bets (1)
LuckyRuss calls (1)
Fooksie folds.
** Dealing Turn ** :  [ Jh ]
UD_Delt bets (2)
LuckyRuss raises (4) to 4
UD_Delt raises (4) to 6
LuckyRuss raises (4) to 8
UD_Delt calls (2)
** Dealing River ** :  [ 6c ]
UD_Delt checks.
LuckyRuss bets (2)
UD_Delt calls (2)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $24 | Rake: $1
Board: [ 7s 7c 2d Jh 6c  ]
Foreseen80 balance $25.75, didn't bet (folded)
LuckyRuss balance $79.75, bet $12, collected $24, net +$12 [ Qh 7d ] [ three of a kind, sevens -- Qh,Jh,7d,7s,7c ]
kickrkevin balance $112, didn't bet (folded)
zubiac balance $40, didn't bet (folded)
Fooksie balance $108, lost $1 (folded)
UD_Delt balance $17.50, lost $12 [ Kc Jd ] [ two pairs, jacks and sevens -- Kc,Jd,Jh,7s,7c ]

Well I think that's enough for tonight...

[Margalis]

The last one I don't get. The board comes paired, you bet, you are raised...and you reraise? Why? You have top pair second kicker on a paired board.

Other than that things seemed ok. If a flush fills in and you lose you lose. If you lose to an AA that just calls preflop...you lose.

The thing about playing maniacs, as you say, is that just because they bet garbage and play garbage doesn't mean they always have garbage. IMO it's bad strategy to gun for one player at a table. If you have the right position with the right cards go for it, but don't get caught playing dumb just because you think they are playing dumb as well.

Sometimes you are at a table with a guy playing garbage and losing all his money, but he keeps beating you. The other day I had a guy hit 3 runner runner straights in a row on me...just wait till you have the best hand.

[Madman]

One the first hand, I personally would have folded on the turn. Johnny raised you as the big blind,  so you should know he probably has something decent. He checks the A to see who plays, he knows he has the top set now and he pretty much knows a flush isn't gonna come down on that board. When he sees the turn, he knows for sure nobody can beat him with a flush, although there is a possible straight on the board. He checks again, you bet, he raises and that is when I would fold, figuring him for either top set or the straight. It sucks to fold a set, but sometimes you have to do it.

Second hand, you should have checked on the river with the intention of folding. The flush is up on the board and someone probably has it. I am not sure what the hell kodjak was still doing in that hand, he should have folded out on the turn and maybe post flop after your reraise. When you saw that third diamond you should realize you had the second best hand.

Third hand, you got out at the right time. You were leading after the flop, but when the turn came down now you have two possible flushes up as well as the straight and you are sitting on the second best two pair. Fold and watch the action with a smile on your face knowing you didn't lose much.

Fourth hand, I would have folded again on the turn. Either after his first raise, or after his reraise, I would have gotten spooked about the set. The other possible action is to check on the jack and see if you can't get a free card. If luckyruss bets on the jack, fold out believing he has AJ in the hole.

I don't think there is any way I would have stuck around for the showdown in any of those hands.

[WayAbvPar]

Well, I managed to scrape and claw my way to a money finish in a tournament (my first positive experience in about a week). Unfortunately, it ended prematurely due to an unholy suckout. To wit-

********** # 1 **************
> PokerStars Game #409123373: Tournament #1500862, Hold'em No Limit - Level
IX (300/600) - 2004/04/28 - 02:10:21 (ET)
> Table '1500862 2' Seat #1 is the button
> Seat 1: wayabvpar (2900 in chips)
> Seat 2: HotRod777 (15500 in chips)
> Seat 4: jessicak911 (4580 in chips)
> Seat 6: ephraim (4020 in chips)
> wayabvpar: posts the ante 50
> HotRod777: posts the ante 50
> jessicak911: posts the ante 50
> ephraim: posts the ante 50
> HotRod777: posts small blind 300
> jessicak911: posts big blind 600
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to wayabvpar [Kd Ks]
> ephraim said, "congrats jess, you're in the money"
> ephraim: folds
> ephraim said, "yep"
> wayabvpar: raises 1200 to 1800
> ephraim said, "haha"
> HotRod777: calls 1500
> ephraim said, "great minds think alike eh?"
> jessicak911: folds
> *** FLOP *** [Jd 6s 4c]
> HotRod777: checks
> wayabvpar: bets 1050 and is all-in
> HotRod777: calls 1050
> *** TURN *** [Jd 6s 4c] [Kc]
> *** RIVER *** [Jd 6s 4c Kc] [Qh]
> ephraim said, "oops"
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> HotRod777: shows [Tc Ad] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
> wayabvpar: shows [Kd Ks] (three of a kind, Kings)
> ephraim said, "wow"
> j0hnnyv [observer] said, "wow"
> HotRod777 collected 6500 from  pot
> ephraim said, "wow"
> jessicak911 said, "doh"
> ephraim said, "nh hotrod"
> j0hnnyv [observer] said, "riverstars!"
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 6500 | Rake 0
> Board [Jd 6s 4c Kc Qh]
> Seat 1: wayabvpar (button) showed [Kd Ks] and lost with three of a
> kind,
Kings
> Seat 2: HotRod777 (small blind) showed [Tc Ad] and won (6500) with a
straight, Ten to Ace
> Seat 4: jessicak911 (big blind) folded before Flop
> Seat 6: ephraim folded before Flop (didn't bet)

My buddy and I were chatting via Messenger, and he was watching me play. Our conversation during the final hand-

Me- cowboys
Him- KKKKKKKK
Him- KKKKKK!
Him- fuck that!
Me- OH MY FUCKING GOD
Him- I will quit if you do!
Me- I am THIS close to putting my foot through my fucking monitor


I am just so fucking sick of outplaying dimwits (this whole tournament was infested with total fucktards) only to get kicked in the cock for my trouble. I may need a poker hiatus.

[Madman]

j0hnnyv [observer] said, "riverstars!"

That is really the only thing to be said. I have said that several times myself, including when I watch some guy in a just plain normal SnG, come back from having about 300 chips. He went all in about 5 times over the course of 7-8 hands, got called 3 times and caught the river each and every time.

Edit - In other news, I am back to being cold decked and unable to pull a flop if my life depended on it. I end up with crap like 92o, T3o, A2o. I can't remember when the last time I got two face cards on the button was (Hah!l I just got it while making this post) and I can't remember the last time I had a strong A hand or decent suited connectors. It gets frustrating when you know you always have the second best hand and you are forced to fold on the turn or river after putting in money.

[Madman]

Yup. It is still offical, I am still cold decked. It is also offical that my most hated hand is the flush draw. I can't pick up a flush to save my life, but when someone else looks for their flush draw against me, they always hit it. I think I am just going to start folding whenever I see two of a suit on the board. The way my luck with flushes runs, I wouldn't be suprised if one day I bet all in on a boat and watch someone pick up a straight flush on the river with 4 cards from the board.

[Rasix]

Blah, suck out city here I am.  It's funny, you guys mention the river crap on Pokerstars and I drown.

*********** # 10 **************
PokerStars Game #409949204: Tournament #1504590, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2004/04/28 - 19:13:47 (ET)
Table '1504590 1' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: JOHNWHIT (5365 in chips)
Seat 5: Flashyhand (2275 in chips)
Seat 6: thomase12 (3485 in chips)
Seat 7: edjmac (2375 in chips)
thomase12: posts small blind 75
edjmac: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thomase12 [7c 7h]
JOHNWHIT: folds
Flashyhand: folds
thomase12: raises 150 to 300
edjmac: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [Jc 4s 7s]
thomase12: bets 300
edjmac: raises 300 to 600
thomase12: raises 2585 to 3185 and is all-in
edjmac: calls 1475 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Jc 4s 7s] [As]
*** RIVER *** [Jc 4s 7s As] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thomase12: shows [7c 7h] (three of a kind, Sevens)
edjmac: shows [Qd Qs] (a flush, Ace high)
edjmac collected 4750 from  pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4750 | Rake 0
Board [Jc 4s 7s As 9s]
Seat 2: JOHNWHIT folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Flashyhand (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: thomase12 (small blind) showed [7c 7h] and lost with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 7: edjmac (big blind) showed [Qd Qs] and won (4750) with a flush, Ace high

10 hands later I go all in with a pair.  It holds up until again someone draws 4 suits off the board.

Sometime this whole luck stuff really sucks. Had a lot of interesting hands that tournament.  

I trippled up here.  I was pretty damn sure all of them were on draws:

*********** # 32 **************
PokerStars Game #409927302: Tournament #1504590, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2004/04/28 - 18:58:53 (ET)
Table '1504590 1' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: nessieboo (2005 in chips)
Seat 2: JOHNWHIT (2585 in chips)
Seat 3: Chas36 (970 in chips)
Seat 5: Flashyhand (3175 in chips)
Seat 6: thomase12 (1010 in chips)
Seat 7: edjmac (1980 in chips)
Seat 8: createlement (1000 in chips)
Seat 9: karen19 (775 in chips)
createlement: posts small blind 50
karen19: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thomase12 [Jc Jd]
nessieboo: calls 100
JOHNWHIT: folds
Chas36: folds
Flashyhand: calls 100
thomase12: calls 100
edjmac: folds
createlement: calls 50
karen19: checks
*** FLOP *** [8c 3d 7h]
createlement: bets 100
karen19: calls 100
nessieboo: folds
Flashyhand: calls 100
thomase12: raises 810 to 910 and is all-in
createlement: calls 800 and is all-in
karen19: calls 575 and is all-in
Flashyhand: folds
*** TURN *** [8c 3d 7h] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [8c 3d 7h 7c] [8s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
createlement: shows [2d 3h] (two pair, Eights and Sevens)
thomase12: shows [Jc Jd] (two pair, Jacks and Eights)
thomase12 collected 450 from side pot
karen19: shows [4d 6s] (two pair, Eights and Sevens)
thomase12 collected 2625 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3075 Main pot 2625. Side pot 450. | Rake 0
Board [8c 3d 7h 7c 8s]
Seat 1: nessieboo folded on the Flop
Seat 2: JOHNWHIT folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Chas36 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Flashyhand folded on the Flop
Seat 6: thomase12 showed [Jc Jd] and won (3075) with two pair, Jacks and Eights
Seat 7: edjmac (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: createlement (small blind) showed [2d 3h] and lost with two pair, Eights and Sevens
Seat 9: karen19 (big blind) showed [4d 6s] and lost with two pair, Eights and Sevens

So, I guess the draws catch up to you.  I don't think I'm playing bad per se, I just feel a tad off center and have been getting a lot of bad beats. Anyhow, losing to two draws killed my desire to play for the rest of the day.

[WayAbvPar]

By not raising your Jacks before the flop, you are pricing the draws into the pot. Throw a raise in there and destroy their odds (and value bet your hand at the same time, since it is likely the best preflop). After innumerable suckouts, I am inclined to try to win pots early rather than build them. The only slow playing I do now is when I flop a MONSTER (like top set with no straight or flush draws at the very minimum).

The crappy players will chase you down if you don't bet them out. In the long run, you will win more often than they do, but as when there are 4-5 chasers, odds are one of them will run you down. Punish them.

[Rasix]

Well, I organized that post a bit wierd, but I did win with my jacks. And yah, I probably should have bet a bit more agressively preflop. However, everytime I bet heavy with JJ, KK, QQ, an ace shows up on the flop.  Everytime.

However, I did notice a few times when I let people string along for too long and should have forced them out before the turn or river. Problem, when I try that, someone calls and catches 2 runners and offs me.  It's like clockwork.

[Margalis]

In NL it's usually best just to take the pot down when you can. If you do the math you quickly realize that taking the pot down is usually better than sticking around, even if you are ahead by quite a bit.

In tournaments I prefer to avoid all-in situations even when I have the best hand. I also tend to avoid big stacks in general. If you play against smaller stacks you can put pressure on them with your chips and the damage you can be dealt is limited, a suck-out isn't going to kill you.

To win a tournment you HAVE to get lucky at some key moments. I don't let the random suckouts bother me. I once had a streak where I was all-in 8 times as the favorite and lost all 8 times. (AA vs J3, opponent flops JJ3 was one of them)

The more chips you put on the line on any hand, the more you are letting luck and variance disrupt your tournament performance. In a cash game you can buy back in forever. The law of averages doesn't really work for tournaments. I'd rather sacrifice some expected value overall for more consistency, especially against a field that is weak.

The weaker you think the players are, the less you should give them a chance to get lucky on you. Don't build your chips - just protect them and wait for them to make mistakes. Don't allow luck to become an equalizer. If you are truly better than the field, you build chips naturally unless you are cold-decked. The stronger you are the more risk-averse you should be.

[Pig Destroyer]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I've started a Poker Blog so I can keep track of my winnings on my newfound quest to become a solid poker player.

Visit it at http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=laceratedsky

[UD_Delt]

Well last night I actually stuck to my plan of only playing Stars NL S&go's since that's the only place I'm showing a profit lately and I finally had a good night.

Interesting thing about the first $5 Sit&Go was that I managed to fold my way into second place. I think the whole tourney I had about 3 decent starters and all 3 missed the flop. By the time it got down to 5 way I was low man around $1100 and my stats were showing 6% of flops seen. At that point there was one major chip leader with the rest spread out between $1100 - $2000. I then just started stealing blinds on complete bluffs as I had no other choice and it seems like everyone else gave up on trying to take down the chip leader and was content to try and limp into the money so it worked. Once we got to 3-way I was around $2000, other guy had about $2400, and the chip lead was around $9000. Other guy screwed up and I limped into second place and stood no chance as the blinds were too high and I only got to see 3 hands.

At the end of the tourney my stats showed 9% flops seen and 2 for 6 at showdowns. Pretty damn awful for taking 2nd place...

I then played an $11 S&G and it played out exactly the same except this time I ended up as the chip leader. When we hit 3-way I was at $11000 with both of them around $1000. Makes it really easy to steal blinds when both are just fighting for second place and unwilling to play anything. Heads up got interesting as he managed to double through twice on crap hands but I got him the third time for the win.

[Arthur_Parker]

Well these threads actually got me interested in hold em for the first time, being Northern Irish I started playing 5 card Poker for money when I was about 4.  Not that that means I'm any good.

I like hold em a lot, I do have a bad habit of gambling too much when playing online, going all in before the flop etc not by chasing the river.  I just get bored waiting for a good hand and my do some people play slow.

I figure the smart play backed up from quick glances through a couple of books I have bought is sticking strictly to the odds.

Was wondering if anyone had ever heard of any macro programs for playing poker online?  Given the number of bad players (like me) out there I would imagine it could be quite a money spinner if programed correctly.

I prefer playing poker in person as it's much easier to predict what people will do, online playing I would be happier to put on auto.

[Madman]

Man, I am totally sick of being cold decked. I can't fucking buy a good starting hand. All I get lately is basically pure crap and I end up playing it just because its the only thing I get. I am sick of seeing Q3o, J5o, 95o, etc. When I play low connecters, a high straight hits the board. When I play a high connecters, a low straight hits the board. When I play something suited, the exact opposite suit comes up on the board. It is really ticking me off. When I actually do get a good starting hand, someone pulls something better on the river.

Here is an example:

Code:

*********** # 8 **************
PokerStars Game #411168194: Tournament #1509903, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2004/04/29 - 15:04:31 (ET)
Table '1509903 1' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: riverjoe6 (1060 in chips) 
Seat 2: danm24 (2600 in chips) 
Seat 3: Geek (1420 in chips) 
Seat 4: TheMadMadman (1690 in chips) 
Seat 5: RealDeal24 (720 in chips) 
Seat 6: Doc11 (1430 in chips) 
Seat 7: whazup12 (1210 in chips) 
Seat 8: jedsampson (1890 in chips) 
Seat 9: riverqueenl (1480 in chips) 
riverqueenl: posts small blind 10
riverjoe6: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheMadMadman [Kd Jd]
danm24: calls 20
Geek: folds 
TheMadMadman: calls 20
RealDeal24: raises 20 to 40
Doc11: folds 
whazup12: folds 
jedsampson: raises 80 to 120
riverqueenl: folds 
riverjoe6: folds 
danm24: folds 
TheMadMadman: calls 100
RealDeal24: calls 80
*** FLOP *** [Ks Kh Qh]
TheMadMadman: checks 
RealDeal24: bets 600 and is all-in
jedsampson: calls 600
TheMadMadman: raises 970 to 1570 and is all-in
jedsampson: calls 970
*** TURN *** [Ks Kh Qh] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [Ks Kh Qh 6s] [4h]
jedsampson said, "nice"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TheMadMadman: shows [Kd Jd] (three of a kind, Kings)
jedsampson: shows [5h Th] (a flush, King high)
jedsampson collected 1940 from side pot
RealDeal24: shows [Jh Qc] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
jedsampson collected 2210 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4150 Main pot 2210. Side pot 1940. | Rake 0 
Board [Ks Kh Qh 6s 4h]
Seat 1: riverjoe6 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: danm24 folded before Flop
Seat 3: Geek folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: TheMadMadman showed [Kd Jd] and lost with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 5: RealDeal24 showed [Jh Qc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 6: Doc11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: whazup12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: jedsampson (button) showed [5h Th] and won (4150) with a flush, King high
Seat 9: riverqueenl (small blind) folded before Flop

I suppose its an ok call by jed, but jesus what the fuck do I have to do to not get beaten by a flush?

Here is another example from my very next SnG:

Code:

*********** # 2 **************
PokerStars Game #411182857: Tournament #1509951, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2004/04/29 - 15:16:05 (ET)
Table '1509951 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: TheMadMadman (1120 in chips) 
Seat 2: athena7769 (1480 in chips) 
Seat 3: Sledd (2050 in chips) 
Seat 4: Jrob7 (1410 in chips) 
Seat 5: heltz (1220 in chips) 
Seat 6: josepi923 (1480 in chips) 
Seat 7: RealFish (70 in chips) 
Seat 8: FedePoker (1500 in chips) 
Seat 9: Halo (3170 in chips) 
heltz: posts small blind 10
josepi923: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheMadMadman [9h 9c]
RealFish: raises 50 to 70 and is all-in
FedePoker: folds 
Halo: folds 
TheMadMadman: calls 70
athena7769: folds 
Sledd: folds 
Jrob7: calls 70
heltz: folds 
josepi923: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [8d 9d 7h]
josepi923: bets 60
TheMadMadman: raises 990 to 1050 and is all-in
Jrob7: folds 
josepi923: folds 
*** TURN *** [8d 9d 7h] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [8d 9d 7h Jc] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TheMadMadman: shows [9h 9c] (three of a kind, Nines)
TheMadMadman collected 120 from side pot
RealFish: shows [Td Qc] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
RealFish collected 290 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 410 Main pot 290. Side pot 120. | Rake 0 
Board [8d 9d 7h Jc 6d]
Seat 1: TheMadMadman showed [9h 9c] and won (120) with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 2: athena7769 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Sledd folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jrob7 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: heltz (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: josepi923 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: RealFish showed [Td Qc] and won (290) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 8: FedePoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Halo folded before Flop (didn't bet)

This time my flopped set gets beat by a straight. These are the kinds of hands I have been getting lately. When I have the best hand on the flop and bet aggresively someone sticks and gets something on the turn or river. I don't know what the fuck I can do.

And of course it happens one more time in that final SnG:

Code:

*********** # 12 **************
PokerStars Game #411193615: Tournament #1509951, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2004/04/29 - 15:24:35 (ET)
Table '1509951 1' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: TheMadMadman (630 in chips) 
Seat 2: athena7769 (1005 in chips) 
Seat 3: Sledd (3480 in chips) 
Seat 5: heltz (900 in chips) 
Seat 6: josepi923 (2440 in chips) 
Seat 8: FedePoker (2025 in chips) 
Seat 9: Halo (3020 in chips) 
heltz: posts small blind 15
josepi923: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheMadMadman [Jc Th]
Sledd said, "tx"
FedePoker: folds 
Halo: calls 30
TheMadMadman: calls 30
athena7769: calls 30
Sledd: calls 30
heltz: calls 15
josepi923: raises 150 to 180
Halo: folds 
TheMadMadman: calls 150
athena7769: folds 
Sledd: folds 
heltz: folds 
*** FLOP *** [9s Kh Qc]
josepi923: checks 
TheMadMadman: bets 450 and is all-in
josepi923: calls 450
josepi923 said, "lol"
*** TURN *** [9s Kh Qc] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [9s Kh Qc Qs] [6d]
TheMadMadman said, "unreal"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
josepi923: shows [Kd Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Queens)
TheMadMadman: shows [Jc Th] (a straight, Nine to King)
josepi923 collected 1380 from  pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1380 | Rake 0 
Board [9s Kh Qc Qs 6d]
Seat 1: TheMadMadman showed [Jc Th] and lost with a straight, Nine to King
Seat 2: athena7769 folded before Flop
Seat 3: Sledd (button) folded before Flop
Seat 5: heltz (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: josepi923 (big blind) showed [Kd Kc] and won (1380) with a full house, Kings full of Queens
Seat 8: FedePoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Halo folded before Flop

I actually fucking flop a straight and look what happens, he fucking nails the boat. I knew he had a pair in the hole and I was guessing he flopped the set on the flop, but I had the nuts after the flop and still couldn't win. It really is getting disgusting.

[Rasix]

Eh, on the first hand, jed made a bad call and caught a card. I still think calling an all-in on a draw is shitty play.  You got fucking hosed, plain and simple.

On a personal note, I've been playing rotten poker lately.  I'm not even really getting cold decked per se. I'm getting some good starting hands, just nothing ever hits on the flop or what hits is second best.  My last tourney, I hit some hands, but that didn't stop the crappy play in subsequent hands just giving the chips back.

I notice that the players I'm up against aren't very good and that I should be able to beat them. However, for some reason my brain isn't following my gut again and I'm making dumb fucking calls constantly.  It doesn't help when I actually get a hand it usually ends up being second best to some ungodly flop.

Playing this bad along with some school work I really need to get done has put me on self imposed poker exile.  I'm not touching this shit for 3 weeks.

Edit: For the first time I broke my not money then in money streak.  I've gotten booted from my last 3 in a row.

[UD_Delt]

All I can say about those hands MadMan is they are hands I would fold in the first few rounds. With the KdJd with 2 raises coming back I would have folded assuming I was dominated. It would have been a mistake since you actually were in the lead but it would have saved you chips in the long run. Playing pocket pairs lower than J's in the first few rounds is praying for a set. The raise in that hand killed your pot odds for the set so it should have been a fold. And 10Jo is just not a good hand at any level. You tried to limp which is an excusable mistake but then facing a large raise you call instead of fold which is a definate mistake. You were dominated pre-flop, you sucked out on the flop, and then he repayed the favor by hitting a 7 outer on the turn. If he missed the turn he still would have had a 10 outer on the river.

I'm still a big fan of playing extremely tight in those Sit&Go's. The only hands you're going to play are Tier 1 hands in the first level, Expand to tier 2 in the second level. Then around the fourth level you start playing to steal blinds very selectively, loosening up as more and more people drop out. In the first few rounds always come in for a big raise of around 5x the BB. Usually you will get one or two callers. Then if you hit the flop you most likely have the best hand since you're only playing the premiums so give another pot size bet. That should usually take it down. If someone raises at that point then you have to make your own decision.


I now have records in poker tracker for about 30 of the $5.50 Sit & Go's and I'm around 58% in the money playing that way, with more firsts and seconds than thirds. So far I've only played about 7 of the $11 one's and I've take 2 thirds and a first with my style. Not enough of the $11's to figure out if it will work yet or not.

[Madman]

I don't know Delt, according to Skalnsky, I made the proper call in each of those hands at least preflop. In fact I probably should have raised on that first hand. Yes, it was early in the game, but I had a group 3 hand, was in an early position and I was the second person into the pot. I think if I had raised, jed might have folded out preflop. I think I probably should have also bet after the flop, but I wanted to check raise. I figured RealDeal had something semi decent, but I didn't figure it to be as good as my hand. I am personally suprised that jed stuck in for the large amount on a flush draw, and then called my reraise. I guess he felt like he was trapped and had to protect him money.

The second hand I am in the middle position with a Group 3 medium pair and a very small raise that would drive someone out of the game if I win. I had to call it, in fact I probably should have raised it. I am not exactly upset with this hand since I didn't lose a large amount of money. In fact my post flop raise was made to drive the people behind me out. I was mostly just using it as an example of how cold decked I was.

As for the 3rd hand, I was again in an early/middle position and I had a group 5 hand, so it was marginally worth the original call. I probably should have folded when he made the raise, but I was short stacked and figured I might as well take the chance. If my flop doesn't come in, then I fold, if it does come in then I try to double up my money. He was on the big blind, so he could have could have had anything. I did however put him on a pair, and when the flop came down and he checked, I also correctly figured he had flopped his set. However, I had flopped the straight, so I felt I should double up my extremely short stack when I could. He had 7 outs and he caught one of them, which just proves how my luck had been running.

In other news, since I am only 2.80 up from my original buy-in a little over a month ago, I am going to 'restart' on May 1st (and not play today). I am going to look back on this past month as a learning experience, read my books as I play and actually try to make it a profitable hobby. I don't expect to win a lot of money, but I believe I can hold my head well above water. I am not sure if I will head back to the ring games right away, or just stick with the SnG's. I do like the SnG's because there isn't nearly as much risk involved and I believe I was getting better at them (except for being cold decked and losing the last 8 of 10 tourneys). Sure I can't win nearly as much money, but I would still like to get more experience before heading back to the ring games. I am going to start up a clean database (I will keep the old one), set up a new email folder to store histories and try to remember to take notes on the people I play with. Wish me luck.

[UD_Delt]

I actually haven't read Sklansky other than other authors references to his books. It is on my list of books to read but I'm not sure how much it will help at low limits since from what I've read in reviews Skalsnky somewhat expects the other players to be playing semi-properly.

FYI... Here's an example of an interesting article relating to Sklansky's book...

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/

[Madman]

Surprisingly, in each of those cases the people playing pretty much DID play properly preflop. The only real exceptions are RealFish making a raise from the first position with a group 6 hand (excusable because he was really short stacked I suppose) and me calling the raise with a group 5 hand on the third hand from an early position. Also as I said, I probably should have raised preflop in the first hand with the group 3 hand. The only real mistake after the flop that I can think of is jed calling all in on a flush draw, unfortunately it paid off for him.

Yes, from what I have read of Skalnsky so far (Hold 'Em Poker and working on both Hold 'Em for Advanced Players and Theory of Poker), he does expect you to be playing against normal players. However, from what I have seen, his play would still work pretty well at low limit tables even with all the river rats. Sure you are gonna get burned by those river rats occasionally, but most of the time you will end up getting even more money than you would against a normal player. I haven't gotten through all the books yet, so if someone who has read them all wants to correct me then feel free.

[WayAbvPar]

IIRC, Sklansky's hand groupings are designed for Limit games. NL games would have a different set (or at least have some hands in different groups).

[Madman]

Yeah that is true Way, but I still feel I played all those hands correctly preflop, with the possible exception of calling the raise on the third hand. However I explained my rational for that. I knew that  I would most likely be going out early in that tourney, so I felt it was worth the chance.

[Rasix]

Ok, I broke my promise to myself and played again.  I had some time before going to bed and couldn't think of anything better to do (had just done a lot of project work and COHing).  

Well, it turned out to be worth it.  Not only did I finish second (went all in on AK at the end about 2:1 chips down and lost to A3 suited hitting the flush), but I got some awesome hilarity out of it.  

Now, let me just premise these hands with a decription of this guy's avatar. It's a very fierce looking Jason Priestly face. Yes, I said fierce and Jason Priestly in the same sentence.  Now as much as a menacing Brandon from 90210 or Billy the gay cowbow intimidates me, it also got a chuckle out of me the first time I saw it.  What's even better, is I could imagine what this angsty fellow said during the tournament coming out of the Jason Priestly avatar.  

*********** # 38 **************
PokerStars Game #413738192: Tournament #1520860, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2004/05/01 - 04:12:08 (ET)
Table '1520860 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: thomase12 (1425 in chips)
Seat 2: Kdogg7 (7260 in chips)
Seat 5: dbl_ac3s (2095 in chips)
Seat 7: divefire (2720 in chips)
Kdogg7: posts small blind 75
dbl_ac3s: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thomase12 [Ad Qd]
divefire: calls 150
thomase12: raises 1275 to 1425 and is all-in
Kdogg7: folds
dbl_ac3s: folds
divefire: calls 1275
*** FLOP *** [2d 9s Td]
*** TURN *** [2d 9s Td] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [2d 9s Td 5s] [3d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
divefire: shows [Qc As] (high card Ace)
thomase12: shows [Ad Qd] (a flush, Ace high)
divefire said, "b"
thomase12 collected 3075 from  pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3075 | Rake 0
Board [2d 9s Td 5s 3d]
Seat 1: thomase12 (button) showed [Ad Qd] and won (3075) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: Kdogg7 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: dbl_ac3s (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: divefire showed [Qc As] and lost with high card Ace

I got lucky there, but what's funny is how angry he got after losing.  Spoutted a double bs, and vowed "it aint over yet" after I said "I'll take it". This is funny because he'd been complementing everyone else for catching absolute bullshit on the river (mostly everyone with a hot chick avatar).  

Now it was really fun busting him with this hand:

*********** # 22 **************
PokerStars Game #413743218: Tournament #1520860, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2004/05/01 - 04:19:34 (ET)
Table '1520860 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: thomase12 (3000 in chips)
Seat 2: Kdogg7 (8210 in chips)
Seat 7: divefire (2290 in chips)
divefire: posts small blind 100
thomase12: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thomase12 [As Ks]
Kdogg7: folds
divefire: calls 100
thomase12: raises 200 to 400
divefire: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [Kd Kc 3d]
divefire: checks
thomase12: bets 200
divefire: calls 200
*** TURN *** [Kd Kc 3d] [Kh]
divefire: checks
thomase12: bets 200
divefire: raises 1490 to 1690 and is all-in
thomase12: calls 1490
*** RIVER *** [Kd Kc 3d Kh] [9c]
divefire said, "nh"
thomase12 said, "night"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
divefire: shows [Js Qh] (three of a kind, Kings)
thomase12: shows [As Ks] (four of a kind, Kings)
thomase12 collected 4580 from  pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4580 | Rake 0
Board [Kd Kc 3d Kh 9c]
Seat 1: thomase12 (big blind) showed [As Ks] and won (4580) with four of a kind, Kings
Seat 2: Kdogg7 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: divefire (small blind) showed [Js Qh] and lost with three of a kind, Kings

divefire [observer] said, " * * for being ****y"
thomase12 said, "no problem"
thomase12 said, "good night"

Really, that made my day.  I'm usually a fairly chatty player considering the level of talk on Pokerstars (mostly nill), but it's pretty fun when you can sublty get under someone's skin.  The avatar just topped it off.  Really, usually I block annoying avatars, but it was hard when it describes a player too accurately.

Well anyhow, fun tournament. Humorous results and I played well.  Played much tighter that I normally did, but it paid off.  No limping in with crap like A3o and J10s and even folding some low pocket pairs when having to act early.

[Margalis]

Sklansky is not a good tournament player. So why take his advice?

The idea of simulating hands is total bs. What hands win at a showdown is irrelevant in NL poker. Unless you are all-in preflop, your hand's chances in a showdown don't matter very much.

Sklansky is not a good NL player or a good tournament player. The only major tournament he ever won (IIRC) was some triple-draw lowball thing with a couple hundred entrants, or something like that.

So Sklanksy doesn't have much success taking his own advice - why will you? I'd much rather take some less analytical advice from someone who wins, vs some number-crunching from someone who doesn't.

[Pig Destroyer]

Ah yes, the joys of No-Limit.

I played in two pretty big multi-table tourneys on Party this weekend.  On friday it was the daily 10:30am $5+$1 multi-table.  There were over 1000 entries, so the prize pool was faily large.  They paid the top 110 finishers.

After the second break I was in the CO and got dealt KK.  The blinds were 300/600.  2 callers to me and I raise to 1200.  SB folds, BB folds, EP caller calls, MP caller folds.

Flop comes Axx.  I bet out 300, he calls.

Turn is a blank, and I bet 1200, he calls.

River is another blank, he checks to me and I check it through fearing the worst.  Sure enough he has A9o for the Aces over my Kings, and I lose over half my stack.

Very next hand I am deal A10o and I push all in preflop.  I get called by AJo and a Jack comes on the flop with no 10s in sight.  I was in 114th place.

Next tournament I played in was this morning.  It was a $10 + $1 multi table with about 600 entries.  Top 60 are in the money.

After the second break I have about 4k chips, I lose 2800 of them due to an unimproved AK not holding up.  I got beat by a pair of 4s.

Then I am dealt JJ UTG.  I have about 1200 chips so I push all in.  The big blind decides to call me with 9 10s.  Sure enough the flop is 9 10 x and I go down in flames.  I was in 72nd place.

I am starting to lose my fucking mind at the amount of good starting hands that get cracked on a regular basis by some jackass who decides he'll gamble with Ax or some other ridiculous hand.  I know I am playing better, or I wouldn't be making it as far as I have been in these tournaments lately.  But I just can't seem to make to it to the money due to suckouts near the moment of truth.  Ah well, that's poker.

[Madman]

Blah, my May has not begun very well. Well it started ok, the second SnG I played I won. But then I lost 8 straight after that, and I didn't finish above 6th in any of them. Then I finished in the money in 4 straight and now I am bouncing back and forth. Money in one SnG, lose next two, money in next two SnG's, lose one, etc. Right now I am sitting about 8 bucks down from when I started May. Some of it has been bad plays by me, some of it has been getting screwed on the river and being cold decked. Part of my problem is that I sometimes take a gamble early in the SnG that doesn't pay off and so I end up short stacked through most of the tourney. Sometimes I get a big chip lead and then let people chip away at it or end up playing a little looser than I should.

I am very passive preflop and there are times where I won't raise a good hand in any position. I think that is because I have been burned by the flop too much. I have been trying to play with mostly good hands, but occasionally I still call crap either in the blind or to keep people off balance. I should probably still try to be a little more aggressive preflop though, but not much. I don't know if it is because I am passive preflop or just because I am playing good hands, but after the flop I tend to be very aggressive. I need to bet more on the river though, instead of the checking I am doing.

Here is one of my favorite hands from one of the past few SnG's:

Code:

*********** # 16 **************
PokerStars Game #416166139: Tournament #1531804, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2004/05/02 - 17:13:35 (ET)
Table '1531804 1' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: kevinator (1815 in chips) 
Seat 2: lsatx (1180 in chips) 
Seat 3: Kurto (2200 in chips) 
Seat 4: TheMadMadman (1415 in chips) 
Seat 6: rovers2 (1370 in chips) 
Seat 7: matno71 (1375 in chips) 
Seat 8: chas b (2970 in chips) 
Seat 9: Captkid420 (1175 in chips) 
Captkid420: posts small blind 15
kevinator: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheMadMadman [Jd 8s]
lsatx: calls 30
Kurto: folds 
TheMadMadman: calls 30
rovers2: folds 
matno71: folds 
chas b: calls 30
Captkid420: raises 30 to 60
kevinator: folds 
lsatx: calls 30
TheMadMadman: calls 30
chas b: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [Qd 9s Ts]
Captkid420: checks 
lsatx: bets 30
TheMadMadman: calls 30
chas b: calls 30
Captkid420: calls 30
*** TURN *** [Qd 9s Ts] [Ac]
Captkid420: bets 420
lsatx: calls 420
TheMadMadman: raises 420 to 840
chas b: folds 
Captkid420: raises 245 to 1085 and is all-in
lsatx: calls 665
TheMadMadman: calls 245
*** RIVER *** [Qd 9s Ts Ac] [6h]
lsatx: bets 5 and is all-in
TheMadMadman: calls 5
*** SHOW DOWN ***
lsatx: shows [As 9c] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
TheMadMadman: shows [Jd 8s] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
TheMadMadman collected 10 from side pot
Captkid420: shows [Ah Qs] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
TheMadMadman collected 3645 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3655 Main pot 3645. Side pot 10. | Rake 0 
Board [Qd 9s Ts Ac 6h]
Seat 1: kevinator (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: lsatx showed [As 9c] and lost with two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 3: Kurto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: TheMadMadman showed [Jd 8s] and won (3655) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 6: rovers2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: matno71 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: chas b (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 9: Captkid420 (small blind) showed [Ah Qs] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens

I was a little worried when the A popped because someone could have had KJ, but figured it was worth the shot. I really didn't think the KJ was likely, I figured they both had the A with another pair when they came out betting heavy on the turn. The funny thing is I probably shouldn't have even been in on the hand, since I normally tend to fold stuff like J8o. I bet Capt was drooling when he saw me reraise his top two pair, but he should have expected the straight.

My most hated beat is still the flush. I fucking hate the flush. I can't ever buy a damn flush, my flush percentage is right around 4% for May and it was more like 2% for April. Meanwhile it seems like everyone else I play with can flop a flush just about every damn time they play suited cards. Although surprisingly I have won the most money so far from the flush in May. I also gotta stop thinking that a pair is going to hold up, I don't know why it seems like it holds up for everyone else, but I can only win with a pair around 30% of the time. Maybe that is the norm though, I just don't know.

[Pig Destroyer]

He should have expected the straight?  Are you fucking kidding me?  You called a Preflop raise with J8o.  Horrible, horrible, horrible play by you, you just happened to get very damn lucky this time around.  If I was him I'd be more concerned you had QQ or 99.

You should be ashamed.

Playing hands like this could definitely be a huge clue as to why you're not a winning player.  Winning once out of 20 times with crap hands that happen to flop the nuts is not good for the longterm size of your bankroll.  Let the other retards play these hands and win occasionally while you win it all back and more by playing smart.

[Madman]

Meh, J8o is alright to limp in with on occasion in my opinion. Had the preflop raise come before I already bet, then I am sure I would have folded, I also would have folded if the preflop raise had been bigger. As it was, I decided it was worth an extra bet to take a look at the flop. Had the flop not come down in my favor then it's an easy fold. Any way you look at it, he still should have been wary of the straight on that board as KJ could have easily played too.

I have no reason to be ashamed of my call there. If the flop doesn't come down for me then I get out early and lose a whole 60 chips which is not that big of a deal early in the game. If you had actually read what I wrote you would have noticed that I said I normally fold stuff like J8o, I just happened to play it this time. In fact looking back over my stats from this month and last, that is only the 2nd time I have played J8o out of 14 times I have had the hand (once was in the big blind with no preflop raises).

[UD_Delt]

He should have expected the straight? Are you fucking kidding me?

He probably should have expected a straight since KJ on that flop also completes and KJs is a very possible hand even KJo is played by most people in the $5's from any position.

Actually that hand was pretty bad all around...

You limp with J8o and then call a raise with it. Then you only worry about KJ after the turn even though KJ already had you beat on the flop. You call all-in after a pot sized bet on the turn with second best current hand and a draw to a flush on the board. At that point you were gambling and hoping your hand was the best. You got lucky that there were only 5 outs against you rather than the 11 or more possible outs that cost you the pot (8 flush, 3 straight) with an additional 3 outs that cost you a split, not to mention the 5 existing outs.

That's a hell of a lot of possible outs to be calling all-in with a second best hand.

Edit:

Oh yeah in case anyone missed it Stars is offering a reload bonus ending today for 20% of deposit up to $120. You have to play enough to earn FPP equal to the amount you deposit and you can't withdraw money before working off the bonus.

Party Poker is also offering a 20% reload bonus (up to $100) using the "APRRELEASE" code through the middle of May.

I love when all the sites start competing for my cash and offering nice incentives. In the last month I've gotten 2 reload bonuses for Party, one for UB, a 100% bonus up to $100 for first deposit at Royal Vegas, and now the Poker Stars bonus. Too bad I only have enough money online to take advantage of a few of them. I'll probably have time to do the 2 at Party and the one at Stars and I'll probably get the Royal Vegas one started.

[WayAbvPar]

You have to play enough to earn FPP equal to the amount you deposit and you can't withdraw money before working off the bonus.

Are you sure? In the past, you could withdraw 48 hours after your qualifying deposit. You can't withdraw PRIOR to making a qualifying deposit (they want 'new' money), but AFAIK you can withdraw your deposit after 48 hours and still earn the bonus.

I have no reason to be ashamed of my call there. If the flop doesn't come down for me then I get out early and lose a whole 60 chips which is not that big of a deal early in the game.

This is a dangerous path. Do you think that losing players see the crap they play any differently? Tournament poker is all about stack conservation. The vast majority of the time playing J8o for a raise will result in you losing chips (and thus having a smaller stack). The few times it does it you can make some money with it, but the same could be said for 52 or 63. Calling a raise and begging for the perfect flop is a losing strategy long term. What happens if the flop comes J high? You have top pair with a terrible kicker. How can you play that with any confidence? Even J9 and JT have you beat.

In other news, the deposit bonus spurred me out of the doldrums and got my bankroll headed the right direction. After depositing $200 on Friday to qualify for the bonus, I went on to KILL the 2/4 game, and even won a SnG. $157 in about 2 hours...good work if you can get it (and keep it!).

[Madman]

As I said, I wasn't really worried about KJ, I didn't figure either of them had it, but it was in the back of my head as I went all in.  I had the SB on an A when he made the raise preflop, but again I felt since I was in for one I might as well be in for two, sometimes you just take the chance and let it ride. If he had made any sort of bigger raise (even 60 chips) I would have folded out preflop. When he came out betting big on the turn, I knew he had paired the A's and figured he had something else, just like I knew the second guy was also betting on the A pair.

You are right about one thing, and that was that I didn't think about the flush. I always forget about the flush and that is why I get burned by it a lot. My thinking at the time was that I had them on the hook and wanted to make them pay for it right now.  I felt pretty strongly that I had the best hand on the turn and that the only thing that could beat me was a boat, so I went with it. If one of them had KJ or popped a flush  I would have tipped my hat and moved on. Although I would have been slightly more ticked about the flush just because I hate getting beat by a flush.

I don't feel lucky on that hand at all, I think I played it fairly well. I felt I had correctly predicted their hands and I wanted to make them pay. As I said, a bigger preflop raise would have driven me out, just like I wouldn't have chased anything past the flop if I didn't catch my hand. I doubt I would have gone to the turn even if I had ended up with an opened ended straight draw unless it was checked around. As for my calling the preflop raise, again I felt it was worth the extra bet. It is no worse than calling it with a middle pocket pair and then folding when when the flop shows all over cards.