Comic Books

[SirBruce]

I started reading and collecting comic books in 1981.  I was bored and on a whim picked one up to read during a trip to Canada because I had nothing else to do.  Within a month of returning home I was regularly buying a half-dozen different titles every month.  I got my brother hooked as well, and with his money we bought a LOT of comics. :)

Soon thereafter he moved to Colorado (first Denver, then Colorado Springs) and began to buy comics at the local Mile High Comics shop.  They offered a subscription service, had a huge warehouse of back issues, and you could also get the independents and non-newstand releases.  So we started getting everything through them.

By the late 80s I had less time to read comic books, what with college and the Internet and all, and we both started to cut back.  The industry was also slowly killing itself... an explosion of titles, massive crossovers, new series just to create "First Issue" sales, revamps, reinventions, trading cards, multi-hologram covers, etc.  It was all getting to be too much.  It also didn't help that DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths had royally screwed up the two titles I cared most about, Legion of Super-Heroes and All-Star Squadron.

By 1991 we had both pretty much stopped collecting.  However, early in 1992 Mile High Comics was going to open a store in Colorado Springs, and I needed a job.  So I and several others applied.  The interview process with their Pesident and CEO went well; they were mostly interested in people who had a knowledge of comic books and I had that plenty.  (One of his questions was "Name 2 of the 5 companies other than Marvel and DC that were publishing comic books before WW2."  I was the only interviewee that actually got 2 right; most of the others could only name one.)

I was hired along with another guy from Colorado Springs.  They said they likes both of us so much they wanted us to be co-managers of the new store and they put us through a month of training at their warehouse learning all about the operation, from warehouse operation to back issues to subscriptions to order processing to store management.  Everything was great, and despite my disappointment with how the publisher titles had progressed I was prepared to renew my interest in the genre.

At the end of the 30 days, they called us both in seperately for what was supposed to be salary offers and final preperations for us to open the store in Colorado Springs.  Instead, they told me that they lied, and never intended to hire both of us, and instead the past month had been a competition to see which one they wanted to actually run the store.  He won, and I lost, mainly it seemed because I had had an argument with one of the other co-workers about the best way to shelve a stack of comic books on the rack and he bad-mouthed me to his boss.  So that pretty much ended my interest in comic books as a regular hobby.

Bruce

[Velorath]

Do you guys generally like JMS authored comics?  I have been considering starting up one of his story arcs coming up in his current amazing spiderman run.  I have been considering it for awhile, but lately he has been on a weird mystical kick that just does not fit with spiderman in the least.  Looks like 509 or 510 (I forget) will be the first of a 6 parter in this new arc.

You guys probably look down on spiderman as a comic, and it is cheesy, I will admit, but it is just one of those guilty pleasures from my childhood.

So, is JMS generally a good comic author?

I picked up the first few issues of JMS's Spider-man but didn't really like it.  It's not because I look down on Spider-man, as the six-part Fearful Symmetry (Kraven's Last Hunt) storyline was what really got me into comics.  Before that I had picked up a comic here and there when they could still usually be found in gas stations and 7-11 type stores, but something about the image of Spider-man (then in his black costume) crawling out of his own grave on the cover made me have to track down the other five parts.

Anyhow I just don't feel that Spider-man's origin needed to be mucked around with, let alone with some hokey sort of magical angle.  It doesn't add anything to the character, and I can't really see future writers using it after JMS leaves.  It's far from bad writing, but it just didn't appeal to me.

I still like a lot of old-school type superhero books.  I read Avengers until Chuck Austen came on board, although I've still gotten my fix through Avengers/JLA and Avengers/Thunderbolts while I wait for Bendis' run with the Avengers Disassembled storyline.   Mostly though I'll just pick up a couple of issues various comics here and there depending on what catches my interest.

[Alluvian]

The new JMS arc seems to be moving away from mystical or so I hear.  Starting with 509 I think (not out yet, but the one AFTER the current two part ezekiel one they have on stands).  It also is a new artist (from the hulk I think) and I am liking his style so far.  The full comic is actually available online as a preview of the new arc, but I don't have the link at work.

Two characters from Parker's past that he does not seem to know coming back with some link to Gwen Stacey.  He got half a letter she wrote but never sent talking about some huge secret she was keeping from him.  This was back when she went on a 4 month trip to Europe.  She died shortly after returning.  The rumor mill is already running that she may have been pregnant and had the children in europe.  It would fit that the two new characters who attacked him would be his children but the ages would be way off.  They could not be more than early teens at best, probably less.

My biggest annoyance with Spiderman is that aunt may is still alive.  Wasn't she ancient back when he first became spiderman?  Wasn't that about 15 years ago in the storline?  And she keeps acting younger and younger it seems.  Especially with JMS who writes her as far more intelligent than is normal (I like this better, but she should be dead).  She has died twice already.  One was an 'actress' planted during the clone saga.  Meh, whatever.  I forget how she came back to life the first time.  As it is now I will be annoyed if spiderman even bothers to grieve for her third freaking death.  More like "see ya later May".

[Hanzii]

Drivel

Oh, I'm sorry. Were people talking about which comics books they liked and why, instead of talking about you?

[Velorath]

The new JMS arc seems to be moving away from mystical or so I hear.

Although if you're a fan of his mystical-type stories it's interesting to note that he will be doing a Dr. Strange series starting in September.  He'll be taking a break from Supreme Power in August while some other writer he's picked will be doing a Dr. Spectrum mini.  It also seems that the next issue of Rising Stars is finally coming in October.

[Aslan]

Nooo!  Dammit, SP is one of the coolest books out there, and it's largely due to his writing style.  Oh well, I guess I will give the Spectrum mini a shot and see how it plays...

[Velorath]

Nooo!  Dammit, SP is one of the coolest books out there, and it's largely due to his writing style.  Oh well, I guess I will give the Spectrum mini a shot and see how it plays...

I'm not sure how long SP will be on hold.  JMS has said this though:

What they said to me was that they want to give Gary some breathing time, and
to use that window to launch the Spectrum mini, but nobody's said anything to
me about a six month gap, I think they're looking at just a couple of issues
worth, because certainly my deadlines haven't changed.  They're very happy with
how the book is doing, and want to take very careful, deliberate steps in how
they choose to expand it outward.

 jms

[Luxor]

I rather like the ultimate version of Spiderman, which is a sort of extended what-if version of the character where he is still 15 and just starting out again. Plus you can get it in hardcover which is a bonus. I think one of the US bookstores is doing a special on it collecting the first 3 HC ( about 40 issues) for $50 or so.

Apart from that the Ultimates is satisfying nonsense or you could start collecting the JMS amazing spiderman run which presently runs into 6 trades. I'm one of the few it seems that doesn't mind the mystical angle

[Alluvian]

Dr. Strange in september?  Ugh.  I will hold off on a subscription then until that is at least over.  I HATE Dr. Strange.  Worst villian spiderman has IMO.  The books just become utter salvidor dali nonsense.  Mysterio is almost as bad.  And anything involving solid holograms also makes my twitch, hehe.

I will pick up the next 6 at least in the local shop though.

Ultimate spiderman is indeed quite good IMO.  At least I really like it.  I love Bagley as penciler.  Great emotional range on the characters and good action scenes as well.  I have only followed it in trade paperback so far and have read synopses of all the stories to date so I have an idea of where they are going with it.  I so far only own the first four trade paperbacks that run up through the second green goblin arc (love the new villians, finally electro does not look like an idiot).  I am picking this story up slowly, buying a few TPB's everytime I see a good sale.  I think I will pick up the hollywood arc tpb before the movie comes out because it looked like a potential goldmine for comedy.  Spiderman when well written is good for laughs at least.

[HaemishM]

Dr. Strange isn't a villain, he's the Master of the Mystic Arts and Sorcerer Supreme for Earth in the Marvel Universe, as well as a friend of Spider-Man's. Dr. Octopus is a Spidey villain. Not sure what other occult villain Spidey has that you might have confused this with.

[Alluvian]

I avoid anything with Dr. Strange in it with a 20 foot pole.  I have never managed to finish a full comic with him in it.  Just flipping through the pages of them is enough for me to move on and wait for the next issue.  So I don't know much about Dr. Strange.  I avoid him.  I apologize for making the mistake of assuming he was a villian.  I have a few issues with him on bit torrent.  Maybe I should force myself to read them.

[HaemishM]

There's actually some decent stories out there with Dr. Strange. But narratively, he can present a problem. He's the ultimate nullifier, since he's sorcerer supreme, he should be able to handle most mystic threats. So where is the dramatic conflict? When he can't handle the threats, no one else should be able to either. It's kind of like when Superman is in team books, it's really hard to not just sit back and rely on the big cheese.

[Alluvian]

Not a big fan of superman comics in general really.  Feels too much like watching a Rocky movie.  Badguy uses light of red sun/kryptonite, whatever to make superman totally usless and beats up on him.  Then somehow the device is taken away and superman becomes god and wins.  Too much like a light switch for me.  He is either supreme being or schoolyard bully bait.  Although you can introduce extra challenges in him saving others instead of himself.  Same thing happens in all other comics as well of course, but it is a bit less blatent to me.  We all know who will win at the end of the book/series.

Maybe if I read more of them I would find the hook that I am missing though.  I don't really know that much about the superman timeline.  Other than reading up a little bit on the whole "Superman is dead, no, he is four people now, no, they are all imposters, the REAL superman was visiting the interdimensional land of dairy queen" fiasco.

[Velorath]

There's actually some decent stories out there with Dr. Strange. But narratively, he can present a problem. He's the ultimate nullifier, since he's sorcerer supreme, he should be able to handle most mystic threats. So where is the dramatic conflict? When he can't handle the threats, no one else should be able to either. It's kind of like when Superman is in team books, it's really hard to not just sit back and rely on the big cheese.

Dr. Strange can be a little too powerful at times.  There was one issue where he went up against Adam Warlock, who was wearing the Infinity Gauntlet at the time.  Warlock used one gem at a time to fight Strange (rather than just snapping his fingers and making Strange disappear or something), and with the help of various artifacts Strange managed to counter each gem.  He can be an interesting character at times though, mostly when he's manipulating others to do his work (Blade and the other Nightstalkers for instance).

Still, this upcoming series is under the Marvel Knights imprint which means it may be less bound by continuity.  JMS may just do the same thing he did with the Squadron Supreme and just take what works with Dr. Strange and throw out all the things that don't.

[stray]

He is either supreme being or schoolyard bully bait.

Since we're talking about both of them: If there was ever a crossover, Dr. Strange would kick Superman's ass. So, there is someone who could do it. Just not in DC. In Marvel there are quite a few characters who could win against Superman (Surfer, Phoenix, Thor, Professor X, etc..). Maybe he just needs to move.

So the Ultimate Spider-Man series then? I picked up the Ultimate X-Men not too long ago. Thought it was kinda cool. A little irritating though (It seems like they already killed off one of my favorite characters in Vol. 1).

One more thing: Has anyone read Ennis' take on Thor? I was surprised to see that the other day, but wasn't sure to get it. Not a Thor fan, but I'm interested to see what he did with it.

[Velorath]

Since we're talking about both of them: If there was ever a crossover, Dr. Strange would kick Superman's ass. So, there is someone who could do it. Just not in DC. In Marvel there are quite a few characters who could win against Superman (Surfer, Phoenix, Thor, Professor X, etc..). Maybe he just needs to move.

Actually it was shown in Avengers/JLA #2 recently that Superman can beat Thor (although Thor later remarked that now that he knows Superman's measure he could take him).

One more thing: Has anyone read Ennis' take on Thor? I was surprised to see that the other day, but wasn't sure to get it. Not a Thor fan, but I'm interested to see what he did with it.

I haven't read it, but by most accounts it was just ok.  If you want to check out more Ennis stuff I'd suggest Hitman, Punisher: The End, and maybe some of his War Stories stuff.

[daveNYC]

Since we're talking about both of them: If there was ever a crossover, Dr. Strange would kick Superman's ass. So, there is someone who could do it. Just not in DC. In Marvel there are quite a few characters who could win against Superman (Surfer, Phoenix, Thor, Professor X, etc..). Maybe he just needs to move.

I always thought that the Marvel universe suffered from some serious MUDflation in character power.  That might just be me.

[Jimbo]

I had a ton of cheesy comics from from the 80's.

My favorite were:

Micronauts
Shogun Warriors
ROM
GI Joe
Sgt Rock
The Haunted Tank
Avengers
Thor

I also liked to pick up Epic Comics:

Marshal Law
Groo

[stray]

Well, I just picked up a couple of the Ultimate Spider-Man series. Also picked up the first 3 issues of "Wanted" on a whim (it was displayed by the register, and I wanted something else to read). Didn't know anything about it, but I guess it's OK so far (a little heavy on the "teen angst" thing though). It's about a kid who inherits his father's legacy as a super-villian (and a different take on super-villians in general). Anyone read this yet?
 
I would have purchased Rising Stars by now, but I can't find graphic novels. Some of the earlier single issues are too expensive for me.

Oh, and what's Top Cow anyways? Like a Marvel subsidiary? The Wanted stories had some Marvel references in them (but without a fuckload of ads).

[Velorath]

I would have purchased Rising Stars by now, but I can't find graphic novels. Some of the earlier single issues are too expensive for me.

Oh, and what's Top Cow anyways? Like a Marvel subsidiary? The Wanted stories had some Marvel references in them (but without a fuckload of ads).

Amazon has the Rising Stars TPB's "Born in Fire" (Vol. 1) and Power (vol. 2) for around $14 each, as well as Visitations which has a few stories.

Top Cow is an off-shoot of Image founded by Marc Silvestri.  Aside from stuff like Rising Stars, they also publish stuff like Witchblade, Darkness, Fathom, and Tomb Raider.  Wanted is probably their big seller right now since Mark Millar (Ultimate X-men, Ultimates, The Authority) is pretty popular at the moment.

[Luxor]

Rising Stars is also not finished yet, JMS and Top Cow had a spat. Rumours that they have kissed and made up and hes finishing the rest of the series havent been confirmed.

[Xilren's Twin]

There's actually some decent stories out there with Dr. Strange. But narratively, he can present a problem. He's the ultimate nullifier, since he's sorcerer supreme, he should be able to handle most mystic threats. So where is the dramatic conflict? When he can't handle the threats, no one else should be able to either. It's kind of like when Superman is in team books, it's really hard to not just sit back and rely on the big cheese.

I am not the comic book collector or even a huge fan, but back in my MtG card buying days I did pick up a few things from the store whilst feeding my cardboard habit.  I have a nice Dr Strange & Dr Doom book wherin we get to learn more about our favoritre metal clad villian and his life.  Involved freeing his mother's soul from Mephisto..by any means neccessary. Not bad; I enjoyed it.

Xilren

Xilren

[Velorath]

There's an interview with Brandon Peterson, mostly about Strange here.

Other news that might be of interest to some people here is that Neil Gaiman will be making a comic book adaptation of his novel Neverwhere.  That story can be found here.

[Abagadro]

I was getting an oil change and mosied over to the comic book store in the nearby strip mall. First time in a very, very long time. Holy crap are comics expensive now!  2.50-3.00$ for a single issue.  Maybe I'm just being a cranky old bastard, but I don't remember them being that pricey when I was a kid (even accounting for inflation). Keeping up with several series would put you in the poorhouse.

The illustration nowdays is really cool though. Picked up an Uncanny X-men and a Thor just for nostalgia sake and they looked really cool. Having something cost half of what a paperback novel does when you can read it in 5 minutes is just too damn much though.

[Lanei]

Having something cost half of what a paperback novel does when you can read it in 5 minutes is just too damn much though.

Trade paperbacks alleviate at least the reading it in 5 minutes part of that.  They are usually priced at about $15 for 6 issues, so theres no actual cost savings for the consumer and you have to wait a lot longer to get your fix, but 20-30 minutes of entertainment for the price feels a little less like a rip-off.  At least until you think about it.  Fuck.

[Velorath]

I can't think of too many novels though that I'll read through more than once though.  Even an average comic book though I can pull out and re-read when I feel like killing a few minutes and some of my favorite TPB's I've read dozens of times.

[HaemishM]

I agree with you about the cost of comics. I used to drop $40 a week on the goddamn things, and this was 3-4 years ago. I think economically, as well as narrtively, comics are much better served being released as graphic novel collections than single-issue monthly periodicals. Though I wouldn't mind seeing electronic distribution of the monthlies, either.

[Luxor]

Though I wouldn't mind seeing electronic distribution of the monthlies, either.

It's called bitorrent. I'm in the process of d/l every single spiderman comic ever done at a whopping 8.5 gig. I shudder to think what size the x-men will be.

[Alluvian]

That 8.5 gigs is FAR from every spiderman ever done by the way.  That is just the Amazing and spectacular runs.  I don't know where that file stops either, since they are both still going.

Amazing and spectacular were the biggest runs, but you still can't follow some of the storylines without the other titles like web of spiderman, the just 'spiderman' one, and others I forget.  Then you have some stand alones that don't fit into any of the other lines but are still parts of series.  The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the maximum clonage one though.  Lots of offshoots like Peter Parker: The lost years and such as well.

I have done some spiderman bit torrenting lately to try and catch up.  (mostly on the clone saga stuff).  I have yet to download the 8.5 gig file because my hd won't fit it right now (waiting till my new system).  Just the 'other' stuff I have downloaded is 3+ gigs on its own and that is just standalones, not even touching "web of spiderman" or "spiderman" or "peter parker spiderman" or "tangled web of spiderman" etc...

[HaemishM]

Though I wouldn't mind seeing electronic distribution of the monthlies, either.

It's called bitorrent. I'm in the process of d/l every single spiderman comic ever done at a whopping 8.5 gig. I shudder to think what size the x-men will be.

Yes, I know. I mean LEGITIMATE electronic distribution, whereby I pay the creators/publishers, instead of the kind where I don't spend any money, the creators don't make any money, and the industry dies on the vine.

Not that BT is responsible for that, the comics industry has been doing a goddamn great job of shooting itself in the dick for over a decade now. While I do BT monthlies, I'd rather actually pay for it, if I had the money.

[Alluvian]

I am reading a lot of back issues to catch up, but am making a point to not read anything new that is not put out legitimately.  I am loosely following some series as they are coming out now and am buying a TPB or two of ultimate spiderman per month.

I don't know of anywhere I can get legitimate copies of all the clone saga stuff without downloading it.  Heck, even downloading it I am going to have gaps from what I can find so far.  Don't ask me why I am drawn to the whole clone saga.  I know it is insanely stupid and they were pulling shit out of their asses like crazy on that whole multi-year storyline, but I can't help but being morbidly fascinated due to how convoluted the whole mess is.  Kind of like an accident scene.

[HaemishM]

I've been the same way about the X-Men. I loved the Grant Morrison stuff, but there was so much continuity I'd missed in the years since I last bought an X-Men comic. I've managed to make it to present day in both the X-Men and Uncanny and X-Treme series, but haven't caught up on the periphery stuff, like the 1.7 GB of shitty mini-series spinoffs, or the "started good, but veered into suckage" Generation X title. It's amazing how badly Marvel screwed up the continuity of X-Men before Morrison and Austen came on. I mean, you'd have characters that had been X-Men for a year, and all of a sudden, they just up and disappeared, either because of some fucking mini-series or just because the writer didn't like them.

[Alluvian]

I never followed Xmen, but might start with the BT ability to read some back continuity before leaping in.  How many Xmen are there generally at any given time in the continuity?  I am always curious because when they show up in other comics they bring just the A-list stars usually and claim that 'everyone showed up' or something.  It is probably just horrible writing, but aren't there dozens and dozens of xmen at any given time?  Or do they kill them off as they add new ones?  Then again death is such a minor setback in comics.

It also seems like all comics have a totally fucked up period which makes you think "WTF?".  Clone saga for spiderman, death of superman (and splitting and rebirth)...  Didn't the Xmen have a long series where they got stuck in the past or something?  I seem to recall people bitching about the continuity becoming stupid back in highschool (late 80s / early 90s).

Oh, and who is the current Batman?  Is it bruce wayne again or is he still crippled from bane or whoever?  I remember they took him out of action and tried a bunch of new looks.  never paid any attention if they ever brought the original back.

[HaemishM]

Batman is still Bruce Wayne. The Azrael thing only lasted about a year. Dick Grayson (first Robin) is Nightwing, and the current Robin (Tim Drake) just gave up being Robin because his dad was worried about him and found out about his being Robin. So Robin 4 is actually a girl who used to be called Spoiler. I think there's even another Batgirl.

X-Men... holy fuck, sometimes it feels like EVERYONE is an X-Man. There have been a ton over the years. There are currently 3 X-Men proper books. Astonishing X-Men just started and is written by Joss Whedon (he of Buffy, Angel and Firefly fame). It is only using 5 characters, I think, Emma Frost (the White Queen), Cyclops, Wolverine, Kitty Pryde (Shadowcat) and Beast. Uncanny X-Men is being done by longtime X-scribe Chris Claremont. Members in that book include Cannonball (one of my favorites), Bishop, Sage, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, and Polaris. This one has a fluid team. X-Men (used to be New X-Men) has a team led by Havok (Cyclops's brother), Wolverine (somehow he's in every goddamn book), Juggernaut (yes, the villain) and I think Angel and Husk (Cannonball's younger sister). I forget if there's others, because there are so many. That doesn't even include the new book Acadmey X (or Xavier Academy or New X-Men: Xavier Academy), which has 5 or 6 new kids plus some old favorite New Mutants like Danielle Moonstar. Wolverine has his own book, there's Weapon X (which guest-stars Wolvie and has former X-Man Marrow), Agent X and something else.... X-Statix, which doesn't have much relation.

I've been trying to get as much of this stuff as I can, and trust me, there's a shitton. Some of it good, some of it mediocre and a lot of the back issues after Claremont left and before Morrison and Austen got on the run that just plain suck ass.

[Snowspinner]

Astonishing X-Men is great. Some of the best work to be done on the X-Men in ages. It builds off of Morrison's run just the right amount, and quietly ignores some of the stuff that, while brilliant, was just too fucked up to be used long term.

Uncanny X-Men is Claremont, and it's vintage Claremont. Works well.

X-Men is by Austen. When Morrison was writing the other main X-Men book, Austen's writing was tolerable because it resembled classic X-Men. Now whedon and Claremont are running rings around him, and this book is fucking torture.

Don't know much about the other X-books, except for Excalibur, which is Claremont, and is pretty good.