Yay jobsearch!

[Merusk]

Right, so last Thursday my office got called into the conference room so the Div. President could talk to us.  No big deal, since this is ually some sort of 'good job' or 'attaboy' because he's cool and actualy likes pointing out when folks do a good job. Well this time, not so much.  My company's pulling out of the local market because we can't hit the numbers the stockholders like to see.  Crap.  So now I find myself on a jobhunt and the cusp of a decision.  Do I stay in the city I hate, or go someplace away from my extended family who've migrated here over the years.

I've got 2 promising opportunities if I stay within the company.  A corporate position that means relocating to Dallas and shifting more into the software development and educational side of the AutoCAD world, or a position in Raleigh that pushes me farther down the user/ management side of things.  Or, of course, I could abandon the company entirely and try for a position as a CAD manager in Indyannapolis... or stay in Cincinnati and take a definate pay cut to work for an Architectural firm and work on actualy getting my license and be a registered Architect myself. (oooh huge liability issues & crappy hours for mediocre pay!)  There's a few positions in Phoenix as well, but in addition to moving close to more of you psychos, that'd put me uncomfortably close to my wife's batshit-crazy step-mom (she sees 'spirits' who talk to her.) and abusive father who she refuses to sever ties of communication with.

So, why the fuck do you all care?  You don't, but I want to know more from you all about these cities.  Of them I've only been to Dallas on business trips three times and Raleigh twice. What's in any of them that would convince you, or me, to move there?

  Raleigh was 'ok' but seemed to have this southern malaise running through it.  It felt like Cincinnati with fewer people and less drive to grow and develop.  Dallas was booming back before 9/11 in the tech sector, and my previous employer was building 150-200 $325k+ homes there a year.  Now the market there seems to have moved towards a 'lower end' product in the $250k range but I'm not sure how the local economy is doing.   Indy.. what the hell, corn fields all around, but building is going like gangbusters there and has for a few years so there's something going on.  Phoenix is the middle of the desert, which troubles me due to concerns about water supply that've been in the news a few times.  Add-on the huge amount of growth that's been happening there since at least '98 and I see big problems in it's future, but if I can get in and out in 5-8 years time, then it's all good.

Opinions, comments, error-correction, ridicule?

Edit: damn you PHB code brackets, stay in place.

[Pococurante]

I forget if you're in the family way with kids and all, but if so stay in the area.

It really matters.

BTW is their Dallas office looking for strong .NET architects/managers?

[MrHat]

Denver has a huge growth in construction that doesn't seem to be slowing down.  You could check the job market there too, excellent place to live imo.

[Sky]

My company's pulling out of the local market because we can't hit the numbers the stockholders like to see.

I can't help you with those cities....but I did want to take the time to say "fuck Wall Street".

Fuck Wall Street. Unlubricated.

[Morfiend]

Go to Dallas. Anything that gets you closer to the West Coast is a good thing.

[Cheddar]

My father currently lives in Raleigh, and he seems to like it.  There is not much of a nightlife beyond normal southern drinking establishments from what I understand.  His only gripe is you can go from relatively crime free areas to ghetto fabulous settings without warning; he went to pick up his GF's child one day and found this interesting fact out.

I have heard nothing but great things about Denver.  Colorado is on my list of places to visit to see if it really is as nice as everyone says it is.   

[Merusk]

Yeah, I've got kids, but they're quite young, 7 and 2 respectively.  While I dislike moving them away from their cousins and aunts/ uncle/ grandparents in the area, I'm almost entirely certain that the pay cut I'd have to take to live in Cincinnati is enough I'd have to sell my house and move someplace decidedly unsafe.  There's very little in terms of quality employwers here, as I've worked for or known people who work for all the local builders. And it'd have to be a builder, as Architects pay for shit. (Woo, $29k a year for 50+ hours of work? Sign me up!)

Poco: Nothing listed on the external site for any kind of IT in Dallas. The internal site has one job involving .net but that's from back in March, sorry.

Also: I agree, fuck wall street, but we're all tied to our corporate overlords somehow, unfortunately.

The wife has told me that places with 'a lot of snow' are right-out.  She grew-up in Tuscon and So. Cal so Denver is probably not a likely cantidate (Hell she can't even stand this non-snow that Cinci gets. I grew up in Cleveland, I dig it.)  I did notice a lot of jobs there on Monster, however.

[Sairon]

It's a golden opertunity to move if your kids are that young, once they start hiting their teens it's not really that nice to force them to move imo.

[Pococurante]

I live in a small town outside the Dallas / Ft Worth metroplex.  There are few places in the country with such affordable housing/land as ours - we don't have state income tax, and property taxes are attractively lower too.

The economy is great and unlike most competing cities in Texas the metroplex has a wide varied taxbase (unlike say Houston that cycles wtih global energy trends) so we weather the bad times better than most of the country.  Texans (even the snowbirds) tend to be more polite and easy-going people than the North.

The summers are a beast but basically you learn that like up north in the Winter you do fewer things, so it is with the last two months of the summer here. :)  We don't have quite the commuting congestion of the Northern states but it is still appreciable.  The metroplex area is where you want to be if you find yourself out of a job in the future... ;-)

Of the two cities in the metroplex Dallas feels most like a big city.  Lots of glitz, great activities 24 hours a day, etc.  There is something of a shallow feel to the north part of Dallas - no lack of overachieving insecure Yuppies who ignore their kids and work too many hours.  Personally I prefer Ft Worth's small town feel and living near big cities rather than actually in them gives me the best of all worlds.

If you have to move I think you'd love Dallas.

[voodoolily]

I'd prolly avoid Dallas because of all the relocated survivors of the hurricane and all. Might be a mess. Colorado is the home of Focus on the Family, so if you don't mind Neo-Nazi Christian conservatives, you might like it there (the state itself is gorgeous but they're 20 years behind on the political front). From what Sauced tells me (he lived in Charlotte for some years), the only thing to do in NC is get drunk at Applebees with your coworkers. But cigarettes are cheap there, so woo-hoo!

If you're a CAD monkey you can go anywhere. The Pacific Northwest has plenty of opportunity, and it's a great place to raise a family. Intel in Portland and Microsoft in Seattle.

Edit: Oh, and since we're both influenced by maritime weather patterns (and have the Mediterranean-style weather), we get maybe an inch of snow a year. Can't beat access to ocean, mountains, rivers and desert all in a two-hour drive!

Come! To the beautiful and scenic Pacific Northwest! See! The towering metropolis of Seattle and Portland! Taste! Fresh seafood and wild hazelnuts!

[Pococurante]

Hehe well I think Houston got by far the majority of evacuees.  I can't say I've noticed any traffic jams of shell-shocked cajuns.

Just the usual...

[Daeven]

Denver has a huge growth in construction that doesn't seem to be slowing down.  You could check the job market there too, excellent place to live imo.

I'll second Denver. The IT market is extraordinarily strong (not to the levels of '98 - '99 stupid, but getting there) Home construction hasn't slowed a bit through the recession, And there's plenty to do.

The wife has told me that places with 'a lot of snow' are right-out.  She grew-up in Tuscon and So. Cal so Denver is probably not a likely cantidate (Hell she can't even stand this non-snow that Cinci gets. I grew up in Cleveland, I dig it.)  I did notice a lot of jobs there on Monster, however.

edit edit edit....
Actualy, Denver gets tons of snow! Year round! Come and ski at our resorts! ski ski ski! (actually, Denver's climate is similar in nature to Tucson, except adjusted downward by about 20 Degrees on a day to day basis. Honelsty, the NE get's a shitton more snow than Denver. We're just not allowed to say that.)

[Daeven]

Colorado is the home of Focus on the Family, so if you don't mind Neo-Nazi Christian conservatives, you might like it there (the state itself is gorgeous but they're 20 years behind on the political front).

You realize that you are talking about the state with Boluder, CO? Aka Eugene/Berkley East? Colorado Spings != Colorado. Just like Coos Bay (home of the retired Grand Wizard of the Klyu Klux Clan!) != Oregon. Don't make me hunt you down and plant Bill Owens For President signs in your lawn next time I'm visiting Portland for saying such stupid things...

'20 years behind on the Political Front'. Please.

[MrHat]

Denver has a huge growth in construction that doesn't seem to be slowing down.  You could check the job market there too, excellent place to live imo.

I'll second Denver. The IT market is extraordinarily strong (not to the levels of '98 - '99 stupid, but getting there) Home construction hasn't slowed a bit through the recession, And there's plenty to do.

The wife has told me that places with 'a lot of snow' are right-out.  She grew-up in Tuscon and So. Cal so Denver is probably not a likely cantidate (Hell she can't even stand this non-snow that Cinci gets. I grew up in Cleveland, I dig it.)  I did notice a lot of jobs there on Monster, however.

edit edit edit....
Actualy, Denver gets tons of snow! Year round! Come and ski at our resorts! ski ski ski! (actually, Denver's climate is similar in nature to Tucson, except adjusted downward by about 20 Degrees on a day to day basis. Honelsty, the NE get's a shitton more snow than Denver. We're just not allowed to say that.)

Yup, I'll be moving back as soon as I can get the money and opportunity.  In the 6 years I lived in the Denver/Boulder area, we got hardly what I'd call snow.  There's very little ice, and when it does get cold, rest assured that 3 days later there will be sunshine.  It's amazing when I tell people I used to live in Denver, they always say, "tons of snow huh?".  It's a mile high, but the mountains take all the snow.

[Llava]

I'm not well versed in all this environmental stuff, to be honest, but I did particpate in an extracurricular course which focused largely on the world's water supply, specifically in Arizona, to qualify for the scholarship I had through my first few years at college.  Basically, concerns about Arizona "running out of water" aren't wrong.  A few years off, it could very well happen.  Naturally the solution will be to just buy water from other locations that have it, which would raise the cost of living here fairly significantly.  That's the extent of my knowledge on this subject, and someone might have evidence to the contrary.  So take it for what it's worth.

Phoenix as a city I can't tell you much about, as I'm a bit of a shut in and live in the neighboring city of Scottsdale.  But I can throw out some tidbits:
1) Property prices are rising.  If you get in now, you might be able to make a good deal for yourself and land a good profit when you decide to sell and move on.  The Phoenix metro area is growing very quickly as more and more people move here.
2) I don't know how it is where you live, but a car is not optional here.
3) We do have spirits here, so your wife's step-mom isn't crazy.
4) Something else, but I can't think of it now.  I'll post it when I remember.

[voodoolily]

Colorado is the home of Focus on the Family, so if you don't mind Neo-Nazi Christian conservatives, you might like it there (the state itself is gorgeous but they're 20 years behind on the political front).

You realize that you are talking about the state with Boluder, CO? Aka Eugene/Berkley East? Colorado Spings != Colorado. Just like Coos Bay (home of the retired Grand Wizard of the Klyu Klux Clan!) != Oregon. Don't make me hunt you down and plant Bill Owens For President signs in your lawn next time I'm visiting Portland for saying such stupid things...

'20 years behind on the Political Front'. Please.

...and NORAD, and Lockheed Martin, and the Air Force Academy...

...and having to go to a liquor store to buy wine...

[Bunk]

Edit: Oh, and since we're both influenced by maritime weather patterns (and have the Mediterranean-style weather), we get maybe an inch of snow a year. Can't beat access to ocean, mountains, rivers and desert all in a two-hour drive!

Come! To the beautiful and scenic Pacific Northwest! See! The towering metropolis of Seattle and Portland! Taste! Fresh seafood and wild hazelnuts!

Very nice VL, I haven't used the wild hazelnuts thing when promoting the Pacific NW. (Why do I call it that anyway? From my County's perspective, it's the Pacific SW. Oh well.)

[Strazos]

The wife has told me that places with 'a lot of snow' are right-out.  She grew-up in Tuscon and So. Cal so Denver is probably not a likely cantidate (Hell she can't even stand this non-snow that Cinci gets. I grew up in Cleveland, I dig it.)

She's a heathen! You need to get the kids away from her post-haste.


But seriously....I love the snow, but I hate living in it when we get it in NJ.

Bad Drivers + Any Kind of Accumilation = OMFGWTFBBQPWNED

[Viin]

By all means, don't move to Denver! We don't need any more people!

That said, Denver is a great place to work and live. (Downtown Denver is an awesome place to work if you don't mind paying for parking or taking the bus). If you do move out here, try to get a place in Jefferson County. Most of the other counties I haven't cared for, but then I've always lived north of downtown and not south.

Also, Denver-metro is one of the top places for number of sunny days in the year. (Take that, California!)

[Signe]

I hate Dallas.  It's old and smells moldy.  Become an architect.  They're mostly handsome.

[Pococurante]

I hate Dallas.  It's old and smells moldy.

Yeah, ain't it great!!!!

[Sky]

...and having to go to a liquor store to buy wine...

Ever been to NY?

Same deal, and they close at 9pm. And no liquor/wine on sunday. Can't even buy beer until after noon on sunday in a regular store. I forget, but I think there's also a nightly deadline for beer purchases, too.

Go go puritans.

[Bunk]

I never knew that... 15 years ago, you could only buy alchohol in Government liquor stores in Canada. Now, every pub in existence has a cold beer store attached, which carry beer, wine, and usually a small selection of hard stuff. They are open 7 days a week, and usually about 10:00 am to 11:00 pm. Still don't get beer in convenience stores, but there are so many cold beer stores that it doesn't matter.

Hell, I remember when our Government liquor stores wouldn't accept credit cards. Oh how we have changed (for the better).

[Daeven]

...and having to go to a liquor store to buy wine...

Ever been to NY?

Same deal, and they close at 9pm. And no liquor/wine on sunday. Can't even buy beer until after noon on sunday in a regular store. I forget, but I think there's also a nightly deadline for beer purchases, too.

Go go puritans.

Hell. it's that way across most of the nation. And now, the blue laws are supported by fairly significant business interests. Although, in their defense, would *you* want to sell cars on sunday?

*shrug*

[Sky]

I would like to be able to make that decision on my own is all I'm saying. Not everyone goes to church on sunday. I just want that freedom /from/ religion.

[voodoolily]

In Oregon you can buy beer and wine at convenience and/or grocery stores until 2:30 am ("beer-thirty", as I call it). Hard lix are at liquor stores, which are closed on Sunday and only open until 7 or 8 (there's the occasional "late-night" liquor store that stays open until 10). But the OLCC (Oregon Liquor Control Commission; hated bastards) is considering allowing the sale of hard lix at selected grocery stores (read: rich white neighborhood grocery stores). Since I buy the huge half-gallon bottles I only need to go to the liquor store every week or two, so it's not much of a problem. If I'm ever that hard up for a drink, I can always just walk two blocks and have a cocktail at an actual bar (though they never have the good pink grapefruit juice, and they don't serve it with a sprig of fresh rosemary). Also, you can buy micros at 7-11, so that's convenient.

When I visited Galliano Island (BC) a few years back I was taken with the fact that I could buy liquor at the island convenience store. Unfortunately, said store closed at like, 8 or something.

[HaemishM]

You could choose Dallas, but then you'd be living in Texas. I can think of few worse things.

Mississippi, believe it or not, may be a good place if you are talking about being a builder. What with the hurricane's effects and all, I get the feeling the construction business and all aspects thereof are going to be booming for the next few years. Cost of living is dirt cheap. If you are talking about the IT field though, that field has been shit in this state for years, pretty much since Worldcomm went belly up thanks to Bernie "I hope he's getting fucked in the ass hard with no lube right NOW" Ebbers.

[Signe]

I would like to be able to make that decision on my own is all I'm saying. Not everyone goes to church on sunday. I just want that freedom /from/ religion.

Go to church, you damn pot head hippy!  You need some bad ass preacher to kick you butt good and proper!  I wish you lived in Muskogee!  (where ever the fuck that is)

Dammit.

[Daeven]

I would like to be able to make that decision on my own is all I'm saying. Not everyone goes to church on sunday. I just want that freedom /from/ religion.

I won't mention how many times I've had friends over for beer and football on some random sunday, and be out of beer. What's an average football loving atheist to do in God Fearin' America? Well, remember to buy the goddamned beer the day before. *shrug*

[Roac]

Raleigh was 'ok' but seemed to have this southern malaise running through it.

I lived there a while, and my sister lives there now.  Not so great, but not that bad.  I hate driving on the beltline though.  If you're looking for places in the Carolinas to get a job, I would suggest Charlotte NC, or Charleston SC.  The first is growing, and everyone who has ever lived in the second that I've spoken to loves it.  Greenville, SC also has a sizable tech sector for a city of its size, but I don't know too much else about it, despite being nearby.

[Mr_PeaCH]

Dallas, far and away.  I've already got it at the top of my lists to escape to and start over if things go bad for me, career-wise in Sunny SoCal (cost of living, et al).  I may be biased because I have family out there... just sayin.  But my wife, a native SoCaler, has actually been out, vetted the area, and tacitly approves (in a 'worst case' scenario)... not that you all know her but it really does say something.

[Sky]

Go to church, you damn pot head hippy!  You need some bad ass preacher to kick you butt good and proper

Well, I don't really smoke anymore, and after seeing some of the hardcore yurt-living hippies in the Green Mts, I'm certainly no hippy. And I'm more moral and ethical than most preachers I've met...

So boo on you Siggy! :P (I'd move to Muskogee but I took a wrong turn at Albequerque...)

[Signe]

Don't be so defensive.  It was only a friendly suggestion! 

[Sky]

I'm not being defensive. I find it funny you think I'm defensive! Why are you being so defensive?

(my google-fu is weak, couldn't find a pic of Nathan Therm)

[Pococurante]

Thurm