Post Mortem

[tazelbain]

Judging by this forum, interest in Guild Wars has come and gone like a flash in the pan. 
What went wrong?
Why doesn't it hold your interest?

[Llava]

Well, I ended up in a pretty decent guild but quickly found myself on the outside.  Even those I was one of the earliest members of the guild, soon I wasn't experienced enough to join the guild's Tombs groups.  When I went out of my way to unlock builds the group used, they wanted me to spend forever in pickup group hell before joining them.  Since I can't stand pickup groups, and since the 4v4 arena PvP is fun in short doses but not fun all day and not really good practice for the 8v8 fights, I found myself getting discouraged.  Then Issue 5 for City of Heroes came out and I went back to play there and got readdicted in a big way.

[Kail]

Judging by this forum, interest in Guild Wars has come and gone like a flash in the pan. 
What went wrong?
Why doesn't it hold your interest?

I don't know that it has to hold people's interest for very long in order to be called "successful," since they're not charging a subscription anyway, and my cabinet is full of fun games that I haven't played in ages.  Personally, I feel much more satisfied with my purchase of Guild Wars than I do with my purchase of World of Warcraft, for example, even though I don't play it much anymore.  Guild Wars is a game that cuts out a lot of the mechanics which are designed specifically to lengthen subscriptions (long levelling times, rare item drops, raids).  Axing those roadblocks, in my opinion, is a good thing for making a fun game, but it's obviously a bad thing if you're expecting people to hang around two, three years from launch.

One thing that I think might have been done better is the PvP.  It's among the best balanced, most interesting PvP systems I've seen in an MMORPG, and I like it far better than World of Warcraft's.  However, it's basically the only real pull to keep playing Guild Wars, and while it's better than any of the other PvP RPGs I've seen, it's still weaker than most other competitive online games. 

Aside from that, the game was kind of middle of the road.  The controls were a pain at times, the graphics were often fairly lousy, items and crafting were screwed up, and most of the maps were EXTREMELY badly done.  But, on the plus side, I loved the game balance (the way the skills were all PvP based, so there wasn't the huge break between PvE and PvP that is present in Warcraft, for instance), the pacing of the fights (fast), the ability to choose a subclass (so that you don't have to be a defenseless wuss to be a healer), and a HUGE plus is the ability to take bots along rather than spend an hour LFG.

I think the reason people aren't still around is probably that the "Time /played > skill" people are better served by other games (like World of Warcraft, or Dungeon Siege, or what have you), while "Skill > time /played" players are likewise going to find games like Unreal Tournament and Battlefield to be more up their alley.  For me, personally, there are times I like each of those mechanics, and so there are times I play each of those types of games, but I've yet to find something that Guild Wars does THE ABSOLUTE BEST to prompt me to reinstall it.

[schild]

It was free. The loot system wasn't as good as diablo.

In closing:
1. I wasn't compelled to play by my own wallet.
2. I wasn't compelled to play by the one thing I expected to compel me.

[Krakrok]

Why doesn't it hold your interest?

Frankly, I don't want something to hold my interest like it was a crack pipe. If I did I'd probably play WoW. Or slot machines.


I still load GW up maybe once a week for some random 4v4 (but only because I win most of the time).


The problem I have (and it isn't really a problem -- more of an uncorrectable flaw) is that there are no unique happenings in Guild Wars. And by unique I mean the "sail your boat around in UO and be a pirate" kind of unique. All of the PvP battles in GW were mindless fun but that is all they were. I don't remember any of them. Which makes it like every other FPS frag game out there.

It isn't a "bad" thing because I don't remember every game of checkers or poker I've played either but there aren't any memories to take away from it.

[HaemishM]

Bad thing? All that PVE levelling (though it was short) was still too much. The fun part was the PVP, and in order to really get all there was to get out of that, you had to PVE too much. The PVE was only fun for a little while, and if you didn't have lots of people to PVE with, the AI on the bots was fucking awful.

Invisible walls are stupid. REALLY REALLY STUPID. Why bother making a 3d game if I'm only going to be put on rails and can't jump or walk over a 3 degree incline?

[Signe]

Yeah, the invisible barriers really, really annoyed me.  I am getting old and grumpy, anyway.  I can see how GW could be really good fun if you had a huge, active guild for PvP.  Unfortunately, we didn't and I couldn't find enough people to group with that I could sanely tolerate.  Geez, there were a lot of Yaaarrrsholes in that game!  Like Schild said... nothing compelled me.

[Krakrok]

Bad thing? All that PVE levelling (though it was short) was still too much. The fun part was the PVP, and in order to really get all there was to get out of that, you had to PVE too much.

It's possible that my game experience was an anomaly since I played a smite monk. I don't think I spent more than 40 hours total on the PvE and there were only 4-5 missions that had to be tried over and over which required human help (a major pain in the ass). I hate PvE and levels but PvE in GW was acceptable to me since I played it as a single player game. I prefer minion based games as well.

For me it wasn't better or worse than Diablo 1/2, Dungeon Siege, Balder's Gate: Dark Alliance, Bard's Tale (the new one), and other similar games. 40 hours is probably around the same amount of time that I spent beating similar games (i.e. Dungeon Siege in 25 hours). The other 200 hours were spent FPS style PvPing.

The paladin and healer PvP templates were golden out of the box. The only problem I recall I had with the minions was a few times when they got stuck on signs and I had to go back and find them. I can see how you would get fucked if you were relying on their healing capabilities however.

The random PvP sucks ass unless you win most of the time (by being a healer). I've tried other classes in it and while some work acceptably none of them come close to guarenteeing a win like being a healer yourself. Again, the random PvP arena is unfun real quick when you get your ass beat 5 times in a row with 5 different random teams.

As for the rails, it didn't bother me because I wasn't trying to play it like an MMORPG. I played it like BG: Dark Alliance (which is a game). I knew there was pretty much no reason to go exploring (just follow the quest dot on the mini map). Most similar games are rail based (and random Diablo maps don't count as non-rail based to me). The swampy(?) area with the pygmies in Diablo 2 comes to mind as a rail example.

Was it deep or memorable? No. Was it mindless fun (for me)? Yes. Will I now go back and play the PvE "Sorrows Furnace" thing they just added? No, because in my mind I've beat the game and I'm done.

YMMV.

[Trippy]

CRPG PvP doesn't really interest me so I was playing Guild Wars for the PvE experience and I really dislike the PvE design. The whole thing with instanced areas is interesting on paper and does lead to some interesting quest designs but in practice to me it felt like I was playing an old console game that had limited save points. Everytime I would leave an town/gathering place to travel somewhere closeby I would have to kill the same fricking mobs over and over and over and over and over again. Yes eventually you'll find another "town" or whatever and then you can click travel but everything in between is just a PITFA. The next big problem I had with the game is the whole rock/scissors/paper style of combat. If you didn't have the right combination of skills loaded it was very possible you couldn't kill a mob no matter how long you spent fighting it, and this was a particular problem with many of the "boss" mobs. Maybe you didn't have enough "interrupts" to keep it from constantly healing itself or maybe you didn't have enough healing for yourself or whatever. So you had to go back to the town to rearrange your skills because of course you can't do it while "outside" and maybe pick up some extra NPCs for the extra damage or healing which of course drastically cuts into your exp and loot and then you have to fight your fricking way back through all the mobs you've already killed many times before to give it another shot. All that repetition was just too painful for me so I gave up.

[Tmon]

I go in phases with the game, after taking a few months off I started playing a couple nights a week just before sorrows furnace went live.  I skipped all the FPS games over the years so for me that style PVP is a new thing.  No monthly fee means I don't have to remember to cancel my account when I decide to take a break.  The one thing that I really like is that patch day is smooth and pretty much unobtrusive.  You log in, the patcher updates and the patch is downloaded.  No server unavailable, no board drama (no Official boards at all thank god), no server coming down for emergency maintenance, at most you get the occasional "Please log out and log back in to load an important update" message.  As far as I can tell the GW folks are doing a better job running a service than the people who charge a monthly fee.  But all that said, in the end it's still a game that rewards time played and if you can't put in the time you just can't be competitive.  So I don't expect to uninstall it any time soon but I don't know if I will buy an expansion either.

[Dren]

I'm with Haemish.  Too much required subpar PvE for a PvP game.  I won't get the next expansion unless they fix that, which they won't.

[eldaec]

The new faction system actually does allow you to unlock skills at a reasonable rate solely through PvP.

As a result I find myself willing to kill the occaisonal hour in GW.

But there is a real shortage of content, PvE or PvP.

[Hoax]

I liked it but I like Gunz-online better.  The pvp is more fun and no pve is required, I wont be back any time soon because I dont even own CS:S and some cool sounding mods are starting to come out (I'm sorry I already played terrorists vrs counter terrorist since beta4 -this game is StarCraft all over again) so I think I'm going to buy that soon and hope steam isn't as lame as I've heard.

[Xanthippe]

I will go back and play it again.  Right now I'm playing CoH instead, but have no plans of uninstalling or not playing GW anymore.  Will likely buy an expansion when it comes out.

Haven't pvped much in it at all though.  Pickup groups are frustrating, and my playtimes were sporatic and short.

[Cheddar]

I bought the game for the PvP; I fell in love with the PvE.  After the PvE was over I realized the PvP was not all that (balanced but blew).  I did a couple of the new missions and it is the same thing all over again.

I am sticking with hookers from now on.

[Signe]

Uh oh.  Cheddar has ginger hair and a funny look in his eyes. 

[Dren]

..and apparently likes sticky hookers. 

Or something.

[Krakrok]

Oh look.. a million units sold...

http://www.guildwars.com/press/pr11-22-09-05.html

[HaemishM]

One wonders how profitable they would have been had they charged a subscription. But then, it's pretty obvious that had they charged a subscription, they'd not have 1 million subscribers today.

[tazelbain]

One wonders how profitable they would have been had they charged a subscription. But then, it's pretty obvious that had they charged a subscription, they'd not have 1 million subscribers today.

If you called an account thats been active in the last month as "subcribed", I think you'd find that GW is still behind EQ2 which is pretty sad for a free MMOG of Guild War's calibar.

[Azazel]

If you called an account thats been active in the last month as "subcribed", I think you'd find that GW is still behind EQ2 which is pretty sad for a free MMOG of Guild War's calibar.

Source?

[Dren]

One wonders how profitable they would have been had they charged a subscription. But then, it's pretty obvious that had they charged a subscription, they'd not have 1 million subscribers today.

Not even close.  I wouldn't have bought it if it had a fee coming off of Beta.

[Yegolev]

The short answer of my lost interest is that I expected Diablo 3 but I got Diablo 1/3.

The PVP might have been awesome, but I just couldn't choke down the PVE grind to get there.

[Furiously]

I have a friend at work who loves lan games. He's currently playing GW's every Wednesday with some friends. I asked if he ever tried WOW or EQ2. "One of those pay games? No way!" I just wonder how much of that sentiment there is.

I really figured GW's would be doing the EQ2 thing of an "adventure pack every two months" as the way to make money.

[tazelbain]

I have a friend at work who loves lan games. He's currently playing GW's every Wednesday with some friends. I asked if he ever tried WOW or EQ2. "One of those pay games? No way!" I just wonder how much of that sentiment there is.

I really figured GW's would be doing the EQ2 thing of an "adventure pack every two months" as the way to make money.

Sorrow's Furnace seemed like a practice run for their model. It'll take them a few expansions to get up to speed, assuming it all works out and people buy.

[Hoax]

I have a friend at work who loves lan games. He's currently playing GW's every Wednesday with some friends. I asked if he ever tried WOW or EQ2. "One of those pay games? No way!" I just wonder how much of that sentiment there is.

I really figured GW's would be doing the EQ2 thing of an "adventure pack every two months" as the way to make money.

I actually had a ton of fun trying to play GW over lan w/ two friends while really fucking stoned (first time I smoked in a long long while) and realized this is not Diablo when it comes to lan gaming.  I've actually logged on 3 times since then to try to take a pve character to 20 (I stopped at 14 lol).  So there is some hope on that end but not as much as one might like.

[AlteredOne]

It was odd, somehow I really enjoyed GW in beta but couldn't get beyond around level 15 when it went live.  I think a key factor was the massive immaturity of the players.  As a monk, a couple of times I dropped groups in the middle of a mission when they yelled at me in nasty ways.  All the kiddies want to play the damage dealer and bitch at the healer.  Screw that.  Plus, the wife really never got excited about it, and she convinced me to play DAOC again.

[Llava]

Plus, the wife really never got excited about it, and she convinced me to play DAOC again.

Good god, man.  I mean, I can understand if Guild Wars didn't do it for you, but to then go back to DAoC?  Jesus.

[Nevermore]

Plus, the wife really never got excited about it, and she convinced me to play DAOC again.

Good god, man.  I mean, I can understand if Guild Wars didn't do it for you, but to then go back to DAoC?  Jesus.

But..  but..  Armsmen can shoot fireballs now!

No, I'd never touch DAoC again either.

[AlteredOne]

Good god, man.  I mean, I can understand if Guild Wars didn't do it for you, but to then go back to DAoC?  Jesus.

Hey, pregnant women have strange taste, and it was worth $30/month to keep her happy!  Now that the baby has actually arrived, it's looking very close to cancellation time.

[Cheddar]

Mmmm pregnant sex.  Good times!

[Llava]

Good god, man.  I mean, I can understand if Guild Wars didn't do it for you, but to then go back to DAoC?  Jesus.

Hey, pregnant women have strange taste

I get it.  So this was like a "I want a peanut butter and pickel sandwich! And I wanna play DAoC!" kinda thing.

[Stephen Zepp]

Interestingly, I didn't lose interest at all until both of the builds I helped to found (zealot healer, frag mesmer) which then became "FOTM" got nerfed did I lose interest.

I'm not trying to claim responsibility for the builds or anything, but I did play both before they became uber-common and therefore in need of nerf (although neither was actually, people finally came up with strong counters to both that weren't TOO limited against other builds), but after spending a ton of time polishing both builds for success in pug pvp, and then logging in to find them both nerfed to hell, I haven't logged in since.

Will most probably get back into things once work slows down, but right now I'm at the "meh, I'll play internet backgammon instead" stage.

[Xanthippe]

Try Sudoku?

[AlteredOne]

I get it.  So this was like a "I want a peanut butter and pickel sandwich! And I wanna play DAoC!" kinda thing.

Spot on    She stopped eating all ethnic food other than Mexican, and I swear we're lucky the baby didn't pop out wearing a sombrero.